Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?

Evidence:

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.

Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.

There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

 

[Christo]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?Evidence:Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

None of that proves murder.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?

Because even though possibly not admissible in court, it goes to establish Martin's character, and anyone proclaiming that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation should have their head examined. Martin was a fighter, a drug dealer, a thief, and a self-proclaimed "gangsta", anyone that cannot admit that has their blinders on.

Evidence:

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.

Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.

There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

You should not be preaching about evidence since it is pretty clear you don't understand what is required to convict someone of murder, you are just trying to add fuel to the racial divide and pretty poorly at that.

 

[kentric]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?Evidence:Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

How does this prove or disprove that Zimmerman initiated contact with Martin. Martin's whereabouts are an important fact. He had plenty of time to make it home. It is possible that in the rain and darkness and stress (about being followed) he could have become confused as to his whereabouts, but to me, the point of contact between the two suggests that Martin likely came up to Zimmerman.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?

Evidence:

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.

Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.

There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

The bolded is not evidence.. It's your supposition. We have no evidence that says Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. The timeline would suggest that Trayvon actually came back, or waited for Zimmerman. Why would he do that if not for an intent to confront Zimmerman?

And the red is just plain ignorant. When someone doesn't agree with you in regards to a situation that includes a black person you call them racist?

Zimmermann did follow Trayvon, but that isn't illegal, and in no way legally justifies Trayvon attacking Zimmerman. Maybe Trayvon didn't attack him, but we have no evidence to the contrary

Furthermore, regardless of who started the confrontation, You as an American citizen have legal rights. One is the right to defend yourself with or without a pistol, if you feel your life is in danger or you're in fear of great bodily harm. There is evidence in the way of a witness, that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman in a struggle at the very least, and more likely pummeling him. And evidence in the way of cuts on his head and what may be a broken nose to prove Trayvon did some damage. It's not a far stretch to believe Zimmerman may have been afraid. It was dark, someone he didn't know, who he thought was a bad guy, who was bigger (taller) than him was on top of him, intent on hurting him, and had already done some damage...

 

[Clifford]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. If they can show via the phone's GPS that Zimmerman continued his pursuit of Trayvon after being told not to by police that is 1 Another lie that Zimm has been caught in and 2 Evidence that he was initiating some form of confrontation with Tray.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. If they can show via the phone's GPS that Zimmerman continued his pursuit of Trayvon after being told not to by police that is 1 Another lie that Zimm has been caught in and 2 Evidence that he was initiating some form of confrontation with Tray.

Good luck with that "evidence", average cell phone gps accuracy is 65.7 meters, or 70 yards, the same distance where Zimmerman was and where Martin was running to.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. If they can show via the phone's GPS that Zimmerman continued his pursuit of Trayvon after being told not to by police that is 1 Another lie that Zimm has been caught in and 2 Evidence that he was initiating some form of confrontation with Tray.

Anyone think Clifford watches CSI?

What are the odds both of these guys had GPS tracking enabled on their phone at the same time and that information is in storage somewhere, and it was accurate enough to track them in that manner? 5o billion to 1?

And there is also the possibility, if you hit the lottery here and they do have GPS information, that it will show Trayvon approach Zimmerman in his car, then approach him once again after doubling back, or laying in wait for him between the buildings.

 

[timschochet]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?Evidence:Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

None of that proves murder.

No it doesn't. But it's suggestive.

And as you yourself have pointed out in this thread several times, the fact that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin is not in question. It was either murder or self-defense. Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is an affirmative defense, and therefore Zimmerman has to prove it, not the other way around. Without Zimmerman's testimony, the prosecution can simply point to the evidence that Zimmerman fired his gun and shot and killed Martin, and that is enough. Zimmerman has to contradict the idea that it was murder- he has to take the stand and face cross-examination. Can he do this credibly? I doubt it.

 

[timschochet]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.

I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

It is weird how many folks posting in this thread think that you can just say "self-defense" after killing someone and face no consequences.

 

[Statorama]

Following someone around does NOT give them permission to try and beat you to death. Someone trying to beat you to death DOES give you the right to defend yourself with deadly force if necessary

 

[timschochet]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556018-judge-denies-delay-bars-evidence-in-george-zimmerman-trial-for-now?lite

Oops, sorry JoJo. Looks like all your irrelevant evidence about Trayvon's past is not going to be admitted at trial.

Also looks like there will be no more delays either, with jury selection scheduled to begin on June 10. The defense keeps pushing for delays, while the prosecutors want to move forward. But-but-but- I thought the prosecution had no case. jon mx and Carolina Hustler and JoJo told me so. If they have no case, why are they the ones pushing for a speedy trial? And why does the defense keep asking for more delays? I don't get it.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Following someone around does NOT give them permission to try and beat you to death. Someone trying to beat you to death DOES give you the right to defend yourself with deadly force if necessary

If Zimmerman can prove that Martin was trying to beat him to death, he'll walk.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556018-judge-denies-delay-bars-evidence-in-george-zimmerman-trial-for-now?lite

Oops, sorry JoJo. Looks like all your irrelevant evidence about Trayvon's past is not going to be admitted at trial.

Also looks like there will be no more delays either, with jury selection scheduled to begin on June 10. The defense keeps pushing for delays, while the prosecutors want to move forward. But-but-but- I thought the prosecution had no case. jon mx and Carolina Hustler and JoJo told me so. If they have no case, why are they the ones pushing for a speedy trial? And why does the defense keep asking for more delays? I don't get it.

I think "JoJo" posted all this information 2 days ago with a live update link..

Thanks for the re-update though..

And btw, they also aren't allowing anything from Zimmerman's past either..

And, whether the prosecution has a case or not, has nothing to do with extensions...

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw. I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

Why do you want to know witness #6's name? The fact that you question who he is, tells me you don't really know what his testimony was. He is on record describing the clothing of the man on top during the altercation and during the screams for help, matching the clothing of the man on the ground after the altercation when the other man was standing with his hands over his head.Zimmerman might not have to testify and they won't make that call until after the prosecution rests. Zimmerman wants to testify. The defense is planning on calling a number of officers from the police department to testify on his behalf which is rather unheard of in a murder case, to have officers testify on behalf of the defendant.

 

[Jackstraw]

what an angel

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area "hiding and being suspicious." Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with "WTF" - an acronym for "what the ####." The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book back in search of the graffiti marker.

Instead the officer reported he found women's jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a burglary tool," according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family's lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called "irrelevant" and an attempt to demonize a victim.

Trayvon's backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

"Martin replied it's not mine. A friend gave it to me," he responded, according to the report.

I'm sure it was just one big misunderstanding, the screwdriver was probably for shop class where he used it to make the jewelry to be used for his upcoming wedding with his girlfriend. He was so considerate he made extra wedding bands in case she loses one.More details of the cover up

>It was only when the M-DSPD Internal Affairs investigation kicked in, and six officers gave sworn affidavits, the manipulative scheme to improve criminal statistics within the School System were identified openly.

School Superintendent Alberto Carvalho gave his hire, Police Chief Hurley, instructions to reduce the criminal behavior of young black males. The chosen strategy between them, to insure optical success, was to stop using the Criminal Justice System to punish black student behavior. Instead they instructed the School Resource Officers to use school discipline in place of criminal justice.

...and then you have this incident

In court Tuesday, O'Mara mentioned for the first time new pieces of evidence damaging to Trayvon's reputation: that the teenager had shot video of his buddies beating up a homeless man; that Trayvon had served as referee in another fight; and that he had won one fight after punching his opponent in the nose.

Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, was at Tuesday's hearing, but her attorneys would not let her answer questions.

Asked about Trayvon shooting video of his friends beating a homeless man, family attorney Darryl Parks said that was irrelevant.

...just your typical teenager, right?

The ##### had it coming. Did you see that dress she had on?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Carolina Hustler, on 29 May 2013 - 14:55, said:

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:51, said:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556018-judge-denies-delay-bars-evidence-in-george-zimmerman-trial-for-now?lite

Oops, sorry JoJo. Looks like all your irrelevant evidence about Trayvon's past is not going to be admitted at trial.

Also looks like there will be no more delays either, with jury selection scheduled to begin on June 10. The defense keeps pushing for delays, while the prosecutors want to move forward. But-but-but- I thought the prosecution had no case. jon mx and Carolina Hustler and JoJo told me so. If they have no case, why are they the ones pushing for a speedy trial? And why does the defense keep asking for more delays? I don't get it.

I think "JoJo" posted all this information 2 days ago with a live update link..Thanks for the re-update though..

And btw, they also aren't allowing anything from Zimmerman's past either..

And, whether the prosecution has a case or not, has nothing to do with extensions...

Tim trying to sound important and leaving out details like only being barred from opening statements but can be admissible as needed as the trial goes on.

 

[timschochet]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw. I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

Why do you want to know witness #6's name? The fact that you question who he is, tells me you don't really know what his testimony was. He is on record describing the clothing of the man on top during the altercation and during the screams for help, matching the clothing of the man on the ground after the altercation when the other man was standing with his hands over his head.Zimmerman might not have to testify and they won't make that call until after the prosecution rests. Zimmerman wants to testify. The defense is planning on calling a number of officers from the police department to testify on his behalf which is rather unheard of in a murder case, to have officers testify on behalf of the defendant.

If Zimmerman refuses to testify he will be convicted.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Following someone around does NOT give them permission to try and beat you to death. Someone trying to beat you to death DOES give you the right to defend yourself with deadly force if necessary

If Zimmerman can prove that Martin was trying to beat him to death, he'll walk.

You mean like with a witness and injuries as evidence? I wonder where he'll get those..

And btw, it doesn't have to be "to death", and he doesn't have to prove that they did, only that he was in reasonable fear of..

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Jackstraw, on 29 May 2013 - 14:56, said:

Jojo the circus boy, on 29 May 2013 - 10:50, said:

what an angel

Quote

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area "hiding and being suspicious." Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with "WTF" - an acronym for "what the ####." The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book back in search of the graffiti marker.

Instead the officer reported he found women's jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a burglary tool," according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family's lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called "irrelevant" and an attempt to demonize a victim.

Trayvon's backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

"Martin replied it's not mine. A friend gave it to me," he responded, according to the report.

I'm sure it was just one big misunderstanding, the screwdriver was probably for shop class where he used it to make the jewelry to be used for his upcoming wedding with his girlfriend. He was so considerate he made extra wedding bands in case she loses one.More details of the cover up

Quote

>

It was only when the M-DSPD Internal Affairs investigation kicked in, and six officers gave sworn affidavits, the manipulative scheme to improve criminal statistics within the School System were identified openly.

School Superintendent Alberto Carvalho gave his hire, Police Chief Hurley, instructions to reduce the criminal behavior of young black males. The chosen strategy between them, to insure optical success, was to stop using the Criminal Justice System to punish black student behavior. Instead they instructed the School Resource Officers to use school discipline in place of criminal justice.

...and then you have this incident

Quote

In court Tuesday, O'Mara mentioned for the first time new pieces of evidence damaging to Trayvon's reputation: that the teenager had shot video of his buddies beating up a homeless man; that Trayvon had served as referee in another fight; and that he had won one fight after punching his opponent in the nose.

Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, was at Tuesday's hearing, but her attorneys would not let her answer questions.

Asked about Trayvon shooting video of his friends beating a homeless man, family attorney Darryl Parks said that was irrelevant.

...just your typical teenager, right?

The ##### had it coming. Did you see that dress she had on?

That's not what I said, what I said is "even though possibly not admissible in court, it goes to establish Martin's character, and anyone proclaiming that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation should have their head examined. Martin was a fighter, a drug dealer, a thief, and a self-proclaimed 'gangsta', anyone that cannot admit that has their blinders on."

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It is weird how many folks posting in this thread think that you can just say "self-defense" after killing someone and face no consequences.

It's funny how some people in this thread think it's legal to beat the #### out of someone who is following them, or that it's illegal to shoot someone who is beating the #### out of you..

 

[timschochet]

Carolina Hustler, on 29 May 2013 - 14:55, said:

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:51, said:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556018-judge-denies-delay-bars-evidence-in-george-zimmerman-trial-for-now?lite

Oops, sorry JoJo. Looks like all your irrelevant evidence about Trayvon's past is not going to be admitted at trial.

Also looks like there will be no more delays either, with jury selection scheduled to begin on June 10. The defense keeps pushing for delays, while the prosecutors want to move forward. But-but-but- I thought the prosecution had no case. jon mx and Carolina Hustler and JoJo told me so. If they have no case, why are they the ones pushing for a speedy trial? And why does the defense keep asking for more delays? I don't get it.

I think "JoJo" posted all this information 2 days ago with a live update link..Thanks for the re-update though..

And btw, they also aren't allowing anything from Zimmerman's past either..

And, whether the prosecution has a case or not, has nothing to do with extensions...

Tim trying to sound important and leaving out details like only being barred from opening statements but can be admissible as needed as the trial goes on.

As needed? You mean if they pass the hearsay test. Which is unlikely.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw. I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

If I were "John" there's no way I would testify. If he plays a key role in GZ getting off, his safety is at risk.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:57, said:

Jojo the circus boy, on 29 May 2013 - 14:55, said:

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:34, said:Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

Why do you want to know witness #6's name? The fact that you question who he is, tells me you don't really know what his testimony was. He is on record describing the clothing of the man on top during the altercation and during the screams for help, matching the clothing of the man on the ground after the altercation when the other man was standing with his hands over his head.Zimmerman might not have to testify and they won't make that call until after the prosecution rests. Zimmerman wants to testify. The defense is planning on calling a number of officers from the police department to testify on his behalf which is rather unheard of in a murder case, to have officers testify on behalf of the defendant.

If Zimmerman refuses to testify he will be convicted.

This case is that much of a joke I would beg to differ. Once the prosecution's "audio expert" is dismissed on June 6th I can't see them having a leg to stand on.

 

[Jackstraw]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?

Evidence:

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.

Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.

There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

The bolded is not evidence.. It's your supposition. We have no evidence that says Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. The timeline would suggest that Trayvon actually came back, or waited for Zimmerman. Why would he do that if not for an intent to confront Zimmerman?

And the red is just plain ignorant. When someone doesn't agree with you in regards to a situation that includes a black person you call them racist?

Zimmermann did follow Trayvon, but that isn't illegal, and in no way legally justifies Trayvon attacking Zimmerman. Maybe Trayvon didn't attack him, but we have no evidence to the contrary

Furthermore, regardless of who started the confrontation, You as an American citizen have legal rights. One is the right to defend yourself with or without a pistol, if you feel your life is in danger or you're in fear of great bodily harm. There is evidence in the way of a witness, that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman in a struggle at the very least, and more likely pummeling him. And evidence in the way of cuts on his head and what may be a broken nose to prove Trayvon did some damage. It's not a far stretch to believe Zimmerman may have been afraid. It was dark, someone he didn't know, who he thought was a bad guy, who was bigger (taller) than him was on top of him, intent on hurting him, and had already done some damage...

I'm not calling you racist but it's weird how nobody ever mentions the black guy had a right to fear for his life and defend himself. But the guy who was doing the initial following and essentially started the confrontation totally had the right to fear for his life and defend himself.....because....WELL HE JUST DID!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.

I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

I think I'd be in hiding too if I were him.. There is going to be a Rodney king sized bomb going off in Florida if Zimmerman is acquitted..

I think it's ridiculous that you suggest him not making himself visible to the media/public means he's not credible..

How many death threats do you think this guy would have gotten so far if everyone knew who he was?

 

[timschochet]

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:57, said:

Jojo the circus boy, on 29 May 2013 - 14:55, said:

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:34, said:

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.

I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

Why do you want to know witness #6's name? The fact that you question who he is, tells me you don't really know what his testimony was. He is on record describing the clothing of the man on top during the altercation and during the screams for help, matching the clothing of the man on the ground after the altercation when the other man was standing with his hands over his head.Zimmerman might not have to testify and they won't make that call until after the prosecution rests. Zimmerman wants to testify. The defense is planning on calling a number of officers from the police department to testify on his behalf which is rather unheard of in a murder case, to have officers testify on behalf of the defendant.

If Zimmerman refuses to testify he will be convicted.

This case is that much of a joke I would beg to differ. Once the prosecution's "audio expert" is dismissed on June 6th I can't see them having a leg to stand on.

What the #### are you talking about??? No leg to stand on??

Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. He claims it was self-defense. He has to prove it was self-defense. If he refuses to testify, he can't prove it.

 

[timschochet]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.

I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

I think I'd be in hiding too if I were him.. There is going to be a Rodney king sized bomb going off in Florida if Zimmerman is acquitted..

I think it's ridiculous that you suggest him not making himself visible to the media/public means he's not credible..

How many death threats do you think this guy would have gotten so far if everyone knew who he was?

This really is ignorance on your part.

The Rodney King riots occurred because of the video which contradicted the acquittal. There is no video in this case. If George Zimmerman is acquitted, there will be no riots.

The assumption that black people riot every time a legal case doesn't go their way is quite similar to the assumption that Trayvon Martin was a thug and a gangster because he smoked marijuana. Both have the same essential root...

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Carolina Hustler, on 29 May 2013 - 14:55, said:

timschochet, on 29 May 2013 - 14:51, said:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/28/18556018-judge-denies-delay-bars-evidence-in-george-zimmerman-trial-for-now?lite

Oops, sorry JoJo. Looks like all your irrelevant evidence about Trayvon's past is not going to be admitted at trial.

Also looks like there will be no more delays either, with jury selection scheduled to begin on June 10. The defense keeps pushing for delays, while the prosecutors want to move forward. But-but-but- I thought the prosecution had no case. jon mx and Carolina Hustler and JoJo told me so. If they have no case, why are they the ones pushing for a speedy trial? And why does the defense keep asking for more delays? I don't get it.

I think "JoJo" posted all this information 2 days ago with a live update link..Thanks for the re-update though..

And btw, they also aren't allowing anything from Zimmerman's past either..

And, whether the prosecution has a case or not, has nothing to do with extensions...

Tim trying to sound important and leaving out details like only being barred from opening statements but can be admissible as needed as the trial goes on.

As needed? You mean if they pass the hearsay test. Which is unlikely.

Any evidence presented has to pass the hearsay test so that is not saying much.Defense attorneys say toxicology tests show Martin had enough THC -- the key active ingredient in marijuana -- in his system to indicate he may have smoked the drug a couple of hours before the shooting. Nelson barred any mention of this from opening statements but said she will rule later on whether it will be admissible after she hears defense experts' testimony about the marijuana use. No hearsay here.

 

[timschochet]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Here's an example to simplify your thinking:

A wacky, zany judge decides to skip opening statements and jump right into things. The defendant takes the stand.

The prosecutor's first words are "You killed that guy! You shot him dead!"

The defendant replies "Yes, I did. But it was in self-defense."

The prosecution rests. The defense rests. The judge and the lawyers go play golf.

So the prosecution got a confession to killing. They did not present any evidence whatsoever that it wasn't self-defense while the defendant didn't present any evidence that it was. Legally, how should the jury find? Who has the burden of proof after murder has been proven? Forget what people would actually do in real life, as that's not important here. Forget what the moral thing to do is.

Who wins?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

No, you're not.. The burn Zimmerman crew would be all over that..

 

[timschochet]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Yes you are. It would help Zimmerman's defense in my mind. Or at least, it wouldn't hurt it. Being stoned makes one less prone to violence, in my experience.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

The most common adverse effects are feelings of anxiety, paranoia or depression (21%)

 

[avoiding injuries]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Yes you are. It would help Zimmerman's defense in my mind. Or at least, it wouldn't hurt it. Being stoned makes one less prone to violence, in my experience.

Wait, if Zimmerman was high you'd believe him more? I don't think you share the same view as an average juror. There's no doubt that the prosecution will not want the jury to know Martin was high.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Why are you talking about things that aren't evidence?

Evidence:

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and by his own phone activity/reported location pursued Martin for upwards of five minutes. Where Martin decided to go during this time is irrelevant. Much to the shock of white people everywhere black teenagers are afforded the same rights as everyone else, and Martin was allowed to walk wherever he wanted to.

Zimmerman eventually pursued him into the courtyard where a fight occurred. This happened after Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to continue his pursuit of Martin.

There's no evidence that Martin was doing anything other than making a trip to the corner store until after he'd been pursued for at least five minutes. Whatever occurred in the courtyard was a result of that pursuit.

The bolded is not evidence.. It's your supposition. We have no evidence that says Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. The timeline would suggest that Trayvon actually came back, or waited for Zimmerman. Why would he do that if not for an intent to confront Zimmerman?

And the red is just plain ignorant. When someone doesn't agree with you in regards to a situation that includes a black person you call them racist?

Zimmermann did follow Trayvon, but that isn't illegal, and in no way legally justifies Trayvon attacking Zimmerman. Maybe Trayvon didn't attack him, but we have no evidence to the contrary

Furthermore, regardless of who started the confrontation, You as an American citizen have legal rights. One is the right to defend yourself with or without a pistol, if you feel your life is in danger or you're in fear of great bodily harm. There is evidence in the way of a witness, that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman in a struggle at the very least, and more likely pummeling him. And evidence in the way of cuts on his head and what may be a broken nose to prove Trayvon did some damage. It's not a far stretch to believe Zimmerman may have been afraid. It was dark, someone he didn't know, who he thought was a bad guy, who was bigger (taller) than him was on top of him, intent on hurting him, and had already done some damage...

I'm not calling you racist but it's weird how nobody ever mentions the black guy had a right to fear for his life and defend himself. But the guy who was doing the initial following and essentially started the confrontation totally had the right to fear for his life and defend himself.....because....WELL HE JUST DID!

They could have both had a right to defend themselves with lethal force.. They could have both been in fear for their lives or bodily harm. If Trayvon would have wrestled the gun away from Zimmerman and shot him, that could be a legitimate self defense claim as well..

 

[timschochet]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

I've known people who've sold a little pot, and I've known plenty of people who smoked it (myself included) and violence is not something I would associate with any of them, including the sellers. I've known plenty of people who were suspended from school, and I've known a few people who stole jewelry, and none of them were murderers.

BUT- if you have a BLACK guy who carries around stolen jewelry and sells drugs, then that guy is likely to be a thug and a murderer. At least, that's what the stereotype says. And this is why this "evidence" should never be admitted- because it's inherently racist.

 

[timschochet]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Yes you are. It would help Zimmerman's defense in my mind. Or at least, it wouldn't hurt it. Being stoned makes one less prone to violence, in my experience.

Wait, if Zimmerman was high you'd believe him more? I don't think you share the same view as an average juror.There's no doubt that the prosecution will not want the jury to know Martin was high.

Well this is certainly true. As I've repeated several times, if I were on the jury, based on what I know now, I would be forced to acquit Zimmerman, even though I'm fairly sure he's guilty. Reasonable doubt and all that. Hope the jury disagrees with me, though.

 

[squistion]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

I have a feeling you'd have a different take on this if Zimmerman had weed in his system and Martin did not. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Yes you are. It would help Zimmerman's defense in my mind. Or at least, it wouldn't hurt it. Being stoned makes one less prone to violence, in my experience.

I get the feeling that some people in this thread consider Reefer Madness to be a documentary. And what is the old joke - that a drunk with a knife in his hand might stab you, while a pot smoker would probably make a sandwich.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Several people, such as Jojo and Carolina Hustler, keep referring to this witness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. That witness is referred to as "John" or "John Doe"- we still, after a year, don't know what his name is. We also don't know what exactly his testimony will be because a month later he supposedly said that he was no longer sure about exactly what he saw.

I have a feeling this witness will either not testify at all or will be inconclusive.

I think I'd be in hiding too if I were him.. There is going to be a Rodney king sized bomb going off in Florida if Zimmerman is acquitted..

I think it's ridiculous that you suggest him not making himself visible to the media/public means he's not credible..

How many death threats do you think this guy would have gotten so far if everyone knew who he was?

This really is ignorance on your part.

The Rodney King riots occurred because of the video which contradicted the acquittal. There is no video in this case. If George Zimmerman is acquitted, there will be no riots.

The assumption that black people riot every time a legal case doesn't go their way is quite similar to the assumption that Trayvon Martin was a thug and a gangster because he smoked marijuana. Both have the same essential root...

The assumption that there will be a riot is attributed to the folks who already claimed there will be a riot..

https://www.google.com/search?q=Trayvon+riot&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

There was already a flash looting, protests, tons of threats of riot.. a tremendous amount of media coverage pandering to the riot idea..

Nice try though.. You almost proved I was racist..

 

[avoiding injuries]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

I've known people who've sold a little pot, and I've known plenty of people who smoked it (myself included) and violence is not something I would associate with any of them, including the sellers. I've known plenty of people who were suspended from school, and I've known a few people who stole jewelry, and none of them were murderers. BUT- if you have a BLACK guy who carries around stolen jewelry and sells drugs, then that guy is likely to be a thug and a murderer. At least, that's what the stereotype says. And this is why this "evidence" should never be admitted- because it's inherently racist.

What? Take black out of it. If you have a guy stealing, smoking weed and getting into fights, he's probably not a person you'd want your kids hanging out with. For good reason.

 

[Sinn Fein]

What happens when the prosecutor puts a photo of a happy/smiling Martin - the inference will be this was a happy go-lucky all-american kid, who was gunned down. Shouldn't the defense be able to rebut that image?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

I've known people who've sold a little pot, and I've known plenty of people who smoked it (myself included) and violence is not something I would associate with any of them, including the sellers. I've known plenty of people who were suspended from school, and I've known a few people who stole jewelry, and none of them were murderers.

BUT- if you have a BLACK guy who carries around stolen jewelry and sells drugs, then that guy is likely to be a thug and a murderer. At least, that's what the stereotype says. And this is why this "evidence" should never be admitted- because it's inherently racist.

A guy who breaks the law on several occasions is likely to do it again...

Nice try, AGAIN (how boring) with the racist narrative....

 

[timschochet]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

I've known people who've sold a little pot, and I've known plenty of people who smoked it (myself included) and violence is not something I would associate with any of them, including the sellers. I've known plenty of people who were suspended from school, and I've known a few people who stole jewelry, and none of them were murderers. BUT- if you have a BLACK guy who carries around stolen jewelry and sells drugs, then that guy is likely to be a thug and a murderer. At least, that's what the stereotype says. And this is why this "evidence" should never be admitted- because it's inherently racist.

What? Take black out of it. If you have a guy stealing, smoking weed and getting into fights, he's probably not a person you'd want your kids hanging out with. For good reason.

I knew plenty of guys like that, and none of them were murderers.

 

[avoiding injuries]

What happens when the prosecutor puts a photo of a happy/smiling Martin - the inference will be this was a happy go-lucky all-american kid, who was gunned down. Shouldn't the defense be able to rebut that image?

it depends. Is the photo at least 5 years old?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Well, that marijuana evidence is important. After all, we all know how marijuana can make people violent.

we all know that people who sell drugs are the least violent people around.. And that teens that are involved with drugs and getting suspended from school, and carrying around stolen jewelry, etc are non violent types.. The violent ones are the ones who abstain from drugs and never get suspended from school, and wouldn't be in possession of stolen property..

I've known people who've sold a little pot, and I've known plenty of people who smoked it (myself included) and violence is not something I would associate with any of them, including the sellers. I've known plenty of people who were suspended from school, and I've known a few people who stole jewelry, and none of them were murderers. BUT- if you have a BLACK guy who carries around stolen jewelry and sells drugs, then that guy is likely to be a thug and a murderer. At least, that's what the stereotype says. And this is why this "evidence" should never be admitted- because it's inherently racist.

and contemplates buying a gun with a friend, videotapes his buddies beating up a homeless guy, is known to be a fighter, referee fights etc... you left out some thug details.

 

[timschochet]

What happens when the prosecutor puts a photo of a happy/smiling Martin - the inference will be this was a happy go-lucky all-american kid, who was gunned down. Shouldn't the defense be able to rebut that image?

Not from the photo. Now if the prosecution says, "Trayvon Martin was a young, innocent kid who never harmed a soul", then they've opened the door for hearsay evidence otherwise. But I doubt the prosecution would be stupid enough to say anything like that.