Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Dr Oadi]

The whole racial profiling claim boils down to these two statements GZ made on the call:

"He looks black"

~a minute later during the conversation:

"He's black"

This differs from how GZ reported all of the other black youths he described in his earlier calls, why hold back when describing Martin? He clearly stated their race in the other calls right from the get go. So unless someone is claiming GZ reports anyone that even looks black wandering his neighborhood and using race as the key determining detail to report suspicious activity there is nothing else to discuss.

The prosecutors tried to tie in "these #######s" and "####### punks" comments, but neither of those can be considered racial descriptions.

Just because Martin was black and GZ reported him is not enough.

I'm not sure there was question about these statements. I think more folks were up in arms over his "They always get away" comment more than anything.

'They' refers to criminals, stupid IMO to think otherwise.

"They" is code for blacks when coming from white hispanic people!

 

[The Commish]

The whole racial profiling claim boils down to these two statements GZ made on the call:

"He looks black"

~a minute later during the conversation:

"He's black"

This differs from how GZ reported all of the other black youths he described in his earlier calls, why hold back when describing Martin? He clearly stated their race in the other calls right from the get go. So unless someone is claiming GZ reports anyone that even looks black wandering his neighborhood and using race as the key determining detail to report suspicious activity there is nothing else to discuss.

The prosecutors tried to tie in "these #######s" and "####### punks" comments, but neither of those can be considered racial descriptions.

Just because Martin was black and GZ reported him is not enough.

I'm not sure there was question about these statements. I think more folks were up in arms over his "They always get away" comment more than anything.

'They' refers to criminals, stupid IMO to think otherwise.

Could be...and if that's the case, he was just as stupid to assume he was a criminal. For as wrong as it is for black people to say this was a racial thing because of their past experiences, it's equally as wrong that Zimmerman assumes that this kid was a criminal based on his past experiences...especially since he had never seen this kid before and didn't recognize him.

 

[greenroom]

Wow we are still going at this? bottom line is Zimmerman killed Martin nothing can change that or bring Martin back. Who knows what really happened we will never really know the truth. We have Zimmerman side which has holes in it, we have forensics that can put some pieces together, and then we have mystery to fill in. There was abuse by the entire media, there was race issues, and there was politics involved by both parties.

Can we get to 600 pages.

 

[Politician Spock]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The whole racial profiling claim boils down to these two statements GZ made on the call:

"He looks black"

~a minute later during the conversation:

"He's black"

This differs from how GZ reported all of the other black youths he described in his earlier calls, why hold back when describing Martin? He clearly stated their race in the other calls right from the get go. So unless someone is claiming GZ reports anyone that even looks black wandering his neighborhood and using race as the key determining detail to report suspicious activity there is nothing else to discuss.

The prosecutors tried to tie in "these #######s" and "####### punks" comments, but neither of those can be considered racial descriptions.

Just because Martin was black and GZ reported him is not enough.

I'm not sure there was question about these statements. I think more folks were up in arms over his "They always get away" comment more than anything.

'They' refers to criminals, stupid IMO to think otherwise.

Could be...and if that's the case, he was just as stupid to assume he was a criminal. For as wrong as it is for black people to say this was a racial thing because of their past experiences, it's equally as wrong that Zimmerman assumes that this kid was a criminal based on his past experiences...especially since he had never seen this kid before and didn't recognize him.

This is where the facts come in (again).

According to Zimmerman:

After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran",[174] Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.[168][175] The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.[174] After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.[168][169] According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.[168][169]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#George_Zimmerman

If all this is true then really it did not matter what he assumed because he was returning to his vehicle, he had done his job and turned it over to police (nobody would call the police and then shoot someone).

I think all these discussions are appropriate - profiling, gun violence, any president's role in engaging in discussions about court cases or race...

.... but these are the right issues just applied to the wrong case and that's why it's constantly screwed up and can never be right.

The Zimmerman case does not apply to any of these bigger valid issues that people want to apply it to.

 

[Christo]

FWIW, I believe that nearly EVERYONE engages in racial profiling. We are all guilty, but law enforcement and the judicial system (and this includes anyone like George Zimmerman who voluntarily puts himself in that position) has more responsibility than the rest of us. I also think that anyone can be profiled for various reasons, and that stereotyping abounds in our society. Hispanic youths are profiled at times by certain police forces in the same way that black youths are. Middle Eastern looking people are profiled for different reasons which can be just as unjust. Profiling is wrong, no matter how effective it might be in specific situations, because it dehumanizes and degrades people.

But young black men have had it historically and currently the worst. There really is no comparison.

Talking about profiling is one thing. Heck old black guys in Central City profile young black youths in Grand Torino mode all the time, and the (black) neighbors appreciate it.

Talking about profiling to the extent it's a civil rights violation that caused a death based on racial hatred is another.

To be clear I don't believe that GZ's racial profiling of Martin was the direct cause of his death.Also it doesn't matter who approves of profiling; it's still wrong.

Well the profiling being at the root of the killing is pretty much the meme being pushed right now and it's a necessity for the civil rights charge.

I haven't seen the actual suit yet....does anyone have a link to it? Will be interesting to see how that unfolds. Last I heard it was still a question on whether it was going to be brought at all.

Here are the different Federal Civil Rights statutes.

Out of all of those only the first--the Matthew Shepard statute--comes close to applying. For the Feds to get a conviction they will have to prove that the crime was committed "because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin of any person" and that the crime "affected interstate or foreign commerce or occurred within federal special maritime and territorial jurisdiction."

And the "crime" is "willfully causing bodily harm", not profiling.

Good luck with that.

 

[Todd Andrews]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

Zimmerman belongs in a real prison. Im not sure why you are whining about the "societal prison" that the meanie blacks are going to force him to live in.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

The whole racial profiling claim boils down to these two statements GZ made on the call:

"He looks black"

~a minute later during the conversation:

"He's black"

This differs from how GZ reported all of the other black youths he described in his earlier calls, why hold back when describing Martin? He clearly stated their race in the other calls right from the get go. So unless someone is claiming GZ reports anyone that even looks black wandering his neighborhood and using race as the key determining detail to report suspicious activity there is nothing else to discuss.

The prosecutors tried to tie in "these #######s" and "####### punks" comments, but neither of those can be considered racial descriptions.

Just because Martin was black and GZ reported him is not enough.

I'm not sure there was question about these statements. I think more folks were up in arms over his "They always get away" comment more than anything.

'They' refers to criminals, stupid IMO to think otherwise.

Could be...and if that's the case, he was just as stupid to assume he was a criminal. For as wrong as it is for black people to say this was a racial thing because of their past experiences, it's equally as wrong that Zimmerman assumes that this kid was a criminal based on his past experiences...especially since he had never seen this kid before and didn't recognize him.

This is where the facts come in (again).

According to Zimmerman:

After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran",%5B174%5D Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.%5B168%5D%5B175%5D The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.%5B174%5D After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.%5B168%5D%5B169%5D According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.%5B168%5D%5B169%5D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#George_Zimmerman

If all this is true then really it did not matter what he assumed because he was returning to his vehicle, he had done his job and turned it over to police (nobody would call the police and then shoot someone).

I think all these discussions are appropriate - profiling, gun violence, any president's role in engaging in discussions about court cases or race...

.... but these are the right issues just applied to the wrong case and that's why it's constantly screwed up and can never be right.

The Zimmerman case does not apply to any of these bigger valid issues that people want to apply it to.

It's no different than using Sandy Hook to soap box their views on gun control.

 

[Politician Spock]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

Zimmerman belongs in a real prison. Im not sure why you are whining about the "societal prison" that the meanie blacks are going to force him to live in.

I rest my case.

 

[Gopher State]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

Zimmerman belongs in a real prison. Im not sure why you are whining about the "societal prison" that the meanie blacks are going to force him to live in.

 

[Todd Andrews]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

Zimmerman belongs in a real prison. Im not sure why you are whining about the "societal prison" that the meanie blacks are going to force him to live in.

I rest my case.

Your case is doo doo.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

Zimmerman belongs in a real prison. Im not sure why you are whining about the "societal prison" that the meanie blacks are going to force him to live in.

I rest my case.

Your case is doo doo.

dems fightin werds wheres i come from mister

 

[shader]

This thread is still going? My god...move on people.

They'll all come together. They just need a little more time.

 

[jon_mx]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

 

[timschochet]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

He's the liberal equivalent of Mr. Two Cents or Jim11- did you put either of them on ignore?

 

[jon_mx]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

He's the liberal equivalent of Mr. Two Cents or Jim11- did you put either of them on ignore?

Jim still posts here?

 

[timschochet]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

He's the liberal equivalent of Mr. Two Cents or Jim11- did you put either of them on ignore?

Jim still posts here?

He posted just last week in this thread.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Not to bring Obama up again, but I find it funny that the people saying you mustn't take parts of his speech out of context and see it in whole are actually taking statements made by GZ in snipets.

"He looks black" - answering a direct question.

"They always get away" - referring to earlier statement about neighborhood breakins.

 

[timschochet]

Not to bring Obama up again, but I find it funny that the people saying you mustn't take parts of his speech out of context and see it in whole are actually taking statements made by GZ in snipets.

"He looks black" - answering a direct question.

"They always get away" - referring to earlier statement about neighborhood breakins.

Obama's speech sounds good to me either in context or out of it. I didn't hear anything problematic either way.

 

[Christo]

Not to bring Obama up again, but I find it funny that the people saying you mustn't take parts of his speech out of context and see it in whole are actually taking statements made by GZ in snipets.

"He looks black" - answering a direct question.

"They always get away" - referring to earlier statement about neighborhood breakins.

Obama's speech sounds good to me either in context or out of it. I didn't hear anything problematic either way.

Shocking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

He's the liberal equivalent of Mr. Two Cents or Jim11- did you put either of them on ignore?

I thought you were leaving, you can't even debate what I say because it is all the truth.

You remind me of a woman, you talk and talk and talk and don't say anything.

The scary part is you have a family and knowing the "values" you poison them with.

The only hope is that your views here are just an act. It is difficult to believe that there are people that think like you.

 

[Gawain]

Not to bring Obama up again, but I find it funny that the people saying you mustn't take parts of his speech out of context and see it in whole are actually taking statements made by GZ in snipets.

"He looks black" - answering a direct question.

"They always get away" - referring to earlier statement about neighborhood breakins.

Obama's speech sounds good to me either in context or out of it. I didn't hear anything problematic either way.

Mark 8:18

 

[avoiding injuries]

Biden gave a speech earlier and said it could have been him and his family that George Zimmerman saved.

He's just glad that GZ didn't stay in the car.

 

[Jim11]

FWIW, I believe that nearly EVERYONE engages in racial profiling. We are all guilty, but law enforcement and the judicial system (and this includes anyone like George Zimmerman who voluntarily puts himself in that position) has more responsibility than the rest of us. I also think that anyone can be profiled for various reasons, and that stereotyping abounds in our society. Hispanic youths are profiled at times by certain police forces in the same way that black youths are. Middle Eastern looking people are profiled for different reasons which can be just as unjust. Profiling is wrong, no matter how effective it might be in specific situations, because it dehumanizes and degrades people.

But young black men have had it historically and currently the worst. There really is no comparison.

Talking about profiling is one thing. Heck old black guys in Central City profile young black youths in Grand Torino mode all the time, and the (black) neighbors appreciate it.

Talking about profiling to the extent it's a civil rights violation that caused a death based on racial hatred is another.

To be clear I don't believe that GZ's racial profiling of Martin was the direct cause of his death.Also it doesn't matter who approves of profiling; it's still wrong.

No it isn't. It's logical. Everyone does it to some extent, including you. I'm not just talking about racial profiling, but profiling in general.

BTW -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syGKFW9pre8

 

[Mister CIA]

Todd is very close to becoming the first poster ever put on ignore. The worst poster on this forum.

He's the liberal equivalent of Mr. Two Cents or Jim11- did you put either of them on ignore?

I thought you were leaving, you can't even debate what I say because it is all the truth.

You remind me of a woman, you talk and talk and talk and don't say anything.

The scary part is you have a family and knowing the "values" you poison them with.

The only hope is that your views here are just an act. It is difficult to believe that there are people that think like you.

What a coincidence!!

 

[BassNBrew]

FWIW, I believe that nearly EVERYONE engages in racial profiling. We are all guilty, but law enforcement and the judicial system (and this includes anyone like George Zimmerman who voluntarily puts himself in that position) has more responsibility than the rest of us. I also think that anyone can be profiled for various reasons, and that stereotyping abounds in our society. Hispanic youths are profiled at times by certain police forces in the same way that black youths are. Middle Eastern looking people are profiled for different reasons which can be just as unjust. Profiling is wrong, no matter how effective it might be in specific situations, because it dehumanizes and degrades people.

But young black men have had it historically and currently the worst. There really is no comparison.

Talking about profiling is one thing. Heck old black guys in Central City profile young black youths in Grand Torino mode all the time, and the (black) neighbors appreciate it.

Talking about profiling to the extent it's a civil rights violation that caused a death based on racial hatred is another.

To be clear I don't believe that GZ's racial profiling of Martin was the direct cause of his death.Also it doesn't matter who approves of profiling; it's still wrong.

You've admitted to profiling on these very boards in your professional career.

 

[Gawain]

Now that Zimmerman's up to three to the good on lives saved and ended thing, where are all the people who were bagging on those of us who thought Zimmerman would be an asset to a neighborhood watch program? Guy's Paul Kersey mixed with Mother Theresa tossed with the Punisher and sprinkles of Superman.

 

[drummer]

Me'shell Ndegeocello can bring some perspective here *lyrics and video are NOT SFW*:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLNSBgvWBGs

 

[jon_mx]

This Zimmerman guy is a pretty solid citizen pulling a family from a wrecked vehicle. None of the haters will even acknowledge it.

 

[The Commish]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

You understand that society is upset because an unarmed kid was killed right? That's what this is primarily about. That's all society needs to put this guy in "societal prison". It happened well before Obama said a word. Do you have issue with Casey Anthony having to live in a similar societal prison? WE are part of this society, yet I see a lot of deflection and segregation with "they". Why? I personally believe you and some others here have read WAY into what Obama said. Only you can answer why. I'm not sure what you're getting out of doing so. Is it a misplaced anger release or something?

 

[The Commish]

The whole racial profiling claim boils down to these two statements GZ made on the call:

"He looks black"

~a minute later during the conversation:

"He's black"

This differs from how GZ reported all of the other black youths he described in his earlier calls, why hold back when describing Martin? He clearly stated their race in the other calls right from the get go. So unless someone is claiming GZ reports anyone that even looks black wandering his neighborhood and using race as the key determining detail to report suspicious activity there is nothing else to discuss.

The prosecutors tried to tie in "these #######s" and "####### punks" comments, but neither of those can be considered racial descriptions.

Just because Martin was black and GZ reported him is not enough.

I'm not sure there was question about these statements. I think more folks were up in arms over his "They always get away" comment more than anything.

'They' refers to criminals, stupid IMO to think otherwise.

Could be...and if that's the case, he was just as stupid to assume he was a criminal. For as wrong as it is for black people to say this was a racial thing because of their past experiences, it's equally as wrong that Zimmerman assumes that this kid was a criminal based on his past experiences...especially since he had never seen this kid before and didn't recognize him.

This is where the facts come in (again).

According to Zimmerman:

After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran",[174] Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.[168][175] The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.[174] After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.[168][169] According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.[168][169]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#George_Zimmerman

If all this is true then really it did not matter what he assumed because he was returning to his vehicle, he had done his job and turned it over to police (nobody would call the police and then shoot someone).

I think all these discussions are appropriate - profiling, gun violence, any president's role in engaging in discussions about court cases or race...

.... but these are the right issues just applied to the wrong case and that's why it's constantly screwed up and can never be right.

The Zimmerman case does not apply to any of these bigger valid issues that people want to apply it to.

I fail to see how any of this applies to the profiling discussion you quoted and responded to. Did you quote the wrong part?

 

[jon_mx]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

You understand that society is upset because an unarmed kid was killed right? That's what this is primarily about. That's all society needs to put this guy in "societal prison". It happened well before Obama said a word. Do you have issue with Casey Anthony having to live in a similar societal prison? WE are part of this society, yet I see a lot of deflection and segregation with "they". Why? I personally believe you and some others here have read WAY into what Obama said. Only you can answer why. I'm not sure what you're getting out of doing so. Is it a misplaced anger release or something?

Unarmed kids are killed every day. In fact, many of them are killed are not in the process of committing a felony assault. But good try rationalizing all the societal hate towards the guy. The unequal treatment that Zimmerman has recieved by the courts, being lied about in the media, being singled out by well-known stars and athletes for death, and being singled out by the president is all repulsive.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This Zimmerman guy is a pretty solid citizen pulling a family from a wrecked vehicle. None of the haters will even acknowledge it.

PR move ...probably staged haha

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I have no problem with George Zimmerman being socially ostracized. He didn't commit a crime, there's no evidence that he acted with racial animus, and Martin played a big role in his own death, but the bottom line is that Zimmerman killed somebody in part because he had to a Big Man. Stuff like that ought to have certain social consequences.

 

[jon_mx]

I have no problem with George Zimmerman being socially ostracized. He didn't commit a crime, there's no evidence that he acted with racial animus, and Martin played a big role in his own death, but the bottom line is that Zimmerman killed somebody in part because he had to a Big Man. Stuff like that ought to have certain social consequences.

Yes, we are all mind readers and know exactly how it went down. It is impossible that maybe Zimmerman's story was true, a stroy which stood up to a thorough police investigation, justice department scrunty and a criminal trial.

Zimmerman has already been subjected to being dragged through the court system purely for political reasons. He is being investigated by the federal government at the highest levels. He is being targeted by well-known figures suggesting his death. Out of the thousands of killings each year, this killing has to rank in the top few percentage of being justifiable.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I have no problem with George Zimmerman being socially ostracized. He didn't commit a crime, there's no evidence that he acted with racial animus, and Martin played a big role in his own death, but the bottom line is that Zimmerman killed somebody in part because he had to a Big Man. Stuff like that ought to have certain social consequences.

Yes, we are all mind readers and know exactly how it went down. It is impossible that maybe Zimmerman's story was true, a stroy which stood up to a thorough police investigation, justice department scrunty and a criminal trial.

Zimmerman has already been subjected to being dragged through the court system purely for political reasons. He is being investigated by the federal government at the highest levels. He is being targeted by well-known figures suggesting his death. Out of the thousands of killings each year, this killing has to rank in the top few percentage of being justifiable.

I said that I don't think Zimmerman committed a crime. I more or believe his version of events. But we're still talking about a wannabe cop who's patrolling his neighborhood while packing. We should all be able to acknowledge that he's a yahoo. That doesn't justify all the racial stuff and it certainly doesn't justify a murder charge, but I don't really lose any sleep over the fact that his life is never going to be the same. He went looking for trouble and found it.

 

[avoiding injuries]

The mayor of Sanford is considering giving Zimmerman a key to the city and possibly a parade to celebrate the heroic actions he displayed rescuing a family of 4 out of a burning vehicle.

Surprisingly, we know that the Ford Exploere was blue, but we're not sure what the color of the family was.

 

[jon_mx]

I have no problem with George Zimmerman being socially ostracized. He didn't commit a crime, there's no evidence that he acted with racial animus, and Martin played a big role in his own death, but the bottom line is that Zimmerman killed somebody in part because he had to a Big Man. Stuff like that ought to have certain social consequences.

Yes, we are all mind readers and know exactly how it went down. It is impossible that maybe Zimmerman's story was true, a stroy which stood up to a thorough police investigation, justice department scrunty and a criminal trial.

Zimmerman has already been subjected to being dragged through the court system purely for political reasons. He is being investigated by the federal government at the highest levels. He is being targeted by well-known figures suggesting his death. Out of the thousands of killings each year, this killing has to rank in the top few percentage of being justifiable.

I said that I don't think Zimmerman committed a crime. I more or believe his version of events. But we're still talking about a wannabe cop who's patrolling his neighborhood while packing. We should all be able to acknowledge that he's a yahoo. That doesn't justify all the racial stuff and it certainly doesn't justify a murder charge, but I don't really lose any sleep over the fact that his life is never going to be the same. He went looking for trouble and found it.

He wasn't patroling his neighborhood. He was on his way to Target and his wife saw something strange and he checked it out. Certainly there are things he could have done better, but nothing that deserves the attention he is getting. It was an unfortunate train of events which ended tragically. Martin deserves most of the blame for not stopping the beating after being asked to. Zimmerman over-reacted but from his cries for help, it was out of real fear.

 

[Politician Spock]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!? From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

You understand that society is upset because an unarmed kid was killed right? That's what this is primarily about. That's all society needs to put this guy in "societal prison". It happened well before Obama said a word. Do you have issue with Casey Anthony having to live in a similar societal prison? WE are part of this society, yet I see a lot of deflection and segregation with "they". Why? I personally believe you and some others here have read WAY into what Obama said. Only you can answer why. I'm not sure what you're getting out of doing so. Is it a misplaced anger release or something?

You recognize that being a victim doesn't give you the right to do wrong, but limit it only to the legal realm. Why? I don't know. That's for you to explain. I however shouldn't have to explain that being a victim doesn't give you the right to do wrong in any realm, legally, morally, spiritual, etc, etc... They are victims.... real, REAL victims... but being victims has no applicability to wrongly accusing Zimmerman, despite Obama speech saying it does. I'm done responding to you as you obviously have zero respect for this opinion, which is ironic given that believe others don't give enough respect for other people's opinions.

 

[The Commish]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!?

From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

You understand that society is upset because an unarmed kid was killed right? That's what this is primarily about. That's all society needs to put this guy in "societal prison". It happened well before Obama said a word. Do you have issue with Casey Anthony having to live in a similar societal prison? WE are part of this society, yet I see a lot of deflection and segregation with "they". Why? I personally believe you and some others here have read WAY into what Obama said. Only you can answer why. I'm not sure what you're getting out of doing so. Is it a misplaced anger release or something?

Unarmed kids are killed every day. In fact, many of them are killed are not in the process of committing a felony assault. But good try rationalizing all the societal hate towards the guy. The unequal treatment that Zimmerman has recieved by the courts, being lied about in the media, being singled out by well-known stars and athletes for death, and being singled out by the president is all repulsive.

Well, since it happens everyday, no big deal. This post is probably one of your more short sighted of this thread. That's saying something. Zimmerman was tried ina court of law and found not guilty. What else was the court suppose to do that it didn't to consider him "unequally treated". Do you mean because others aren't tried like he was? Good sound logic you have here. Spare me your political with regards to Obama as well. We get that you hate the guy. You have to let go.

 

[The Commish]

I have no problem with George Zimmerman being socially ostracized. He didn't commit a crime, there's no evidence that he acted with racial animus, and Martin played a big role in his own death, but the bottom line is that Zimmerman killed somebody in part because he had to a Big Man. Stuff like that ought to have certain social consequences.

Yes, we are all mind readers and know exactly how it went down. It is impossible that maybe Zimmerman's story was true, a stroy which stood up to a thorough police investigation, justice department scrunty and a criminal trial.

Zimmerman has already been subjected to being dragged through the court system purely for political reasons. He is being investigated by the federal government at the highest levels. He is being targeted by well-known figures suggesting his death. Out of the thousands of killings each year, this killing has to rank in the top few percentage of being justifiable.

I said that I don't think Zimmerman committed a crime. I more or believe his version of events. But we're still talking about a wannabe cop who's patrolling his neighborhood while packing. We should all be able to acknowledge that he's a yahoo. That doesn't justify all the racial stuff and it certainly doesn't justify a murder charge, but I don't really lose any sleep over the fact that his life is never going to be the same. He went looking for trouble and found it.

no no....there is zero fault with Zimmerman IK.

 

[The Commish]

The assumptions they've made are wrong. Recognizing that the experiences and history that compelled them to their wrong assumption are very, VERY real, does nothing to change the fact that their assumptions are wrong. I don't allow one of my sons to justify what he did to his brother because of what his sister did to him first. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to commit your own wrong. But Obama just told the nation, yes it does.

He told the nation to look at it from the AA POV. From your POV you think they are wrong. From their POV they don't. No need for the hyperbole. It doesn't help anything. The only thing we can hope for as a society is that we understand each other better allowing empathy/sympathy to flow freely among us as individuals. Only then will we all start to "get it".

Hyperbole?!? From their POV he was guilty before they had any knowledge, thought or reason to conclude that. And they still do. And they will make him pay for it in their own way. They are victims. There is no doubt about that. But being victims doesn't justify what they are doing to him at all.

Yes...hyperbole. When you go on and on about Obama single handedly "sealing Zimmerman's fate" and all that nonsense, that's hyperbole. Legally, I agree that being victims doesn't justify their actions towards Zimmerman, but one has to be foolish not to understand society doesn't have to abide by the laws of this land for society's sake. Society works things out on it's own terms. What is happening to him is happening because he shot an unarmed kid after being attacked by that kid. It's the classic monday morning QB. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's just. I'm saying it's a reaction to an action. That reaction is based on a very long history that few take the time to understand.

The fact that society works things out on it's own terms is EXACTLY why I find what Obama did on Friday to be sickening. He affirmed that because the AA community is a victim of history, they are justified in the societal prison they will make Zimmerman live in. You're perfectly fine with that. It's you're right to feel however you want about it. It's my right to be sickened by it.

You understand that society is upset because an unarmed kid was killed right? That's what this is primarily about. That's all society needs to put this guy in "societal prison". It happened well before Obama said a word. Do you have issue with Casey Anthony having to live in a similar societal prison? WE are part of this society, yet I see a lot of deflection and segregation with "they". Why? I personally believe you and some others here have read WAY into what Obama said. Only you can answer why. I'm not sure what you're getting out of doing so. Is it a misplaced anger release or something?

You recognize that being a victim doesn't give you the right to do wrong, but limit it only to the legal realm. Why? I don't know. That's for you to explain. I however shouldn't have to explain that being a victim doesn't give you the right to do wrong in any realm, legally, morally, spiritual, etc, etc... They are victims.... real, REAL victims... but being victims has no applicability to wrongly accusing Zimmerman, despite Obama speech saying it does. I'm done responding to you as you obviously have zero respect for this opinion, which is ironic given that believe others don't give enough respect for other people's opinions.

Respecting one's opinion has nothing to do with agreeing with it. I simply don't agree with your assessment of Obama's speech. That doesn't mean I don't respect your assessment. I'm not sure what you mean about the bold but I doubt we can continue this discussion if we can't agree on a starting point. You think Obama meant something other than what he said. I was trying to understand that, but it's not going well. We can agree to disagree.

 

[avoiding injuries]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

 

[timschochet]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

1/10

 

[avoiding injuries]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

1/10

Sounded good in my head. Sorry

 

[avoiding injuries]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

1/10

Sounded good in my head. Sorry

But at least it got you to acknowledge GZ's heroic actions. Lol

 

[timschochet]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

1/10

Sounded good in my head. Sorry

But at least it got you to acknowledge GZ's heroic actions. Lol

It's only been mentioned at least 20 times in this thread since yesterday.

 

[avoiding injuries]

They interviewed the passenger of the overturned vehicle last night. She said once the truck flipped and caught on fire, she remembered that she had a can of watermelon juice and a bag of skittles in the glovebox. She popped the can of juice, shook the bag of skittles and George Zimmerman appeared out of nowhere. She said it was miraculous and she will forever carry watermelon juice and skittles wherever she goes.

1/10

Sounded good in my head. Sorry

But at least it got you to acknowledge GZ's heroic actions. Lol

It's only been mentioned at least 20 times in this thread since yesterday.

As it should. I find it hysterical that a guy who has been demonized for 500 pages gets acquitted and then rescues a family from a burning vehicle 4 days later. You don't find any humor in that?

 

[timschochet]

I don't think he's been especially demonized. He was called a racist, by me and others, which was probably wrong, but everything else remains IMO an accurate description. The guy wrongfully killed a young kid. That's a very serious crime, and George Zimmerman deserves to be serving jail time right now. I'm happy that he chose to help out in an accident, but that does nothing to exonerate him.

 

[Rayderr]

I don't think he's been especially demonized. He was called a racist, by me and others, which was probably wrong, but everything else remains IMO an accurate description. The guy wrongfully killed a young kid. That's a very serious crime, and George Zimmerman deserves to be serving jail time right now. I'm happy that he chose to help out in an accident, but that does nothing to exonerate him.

Probably?