Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (4 Viewers)

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

it is pretty pathetic...now we are just arguing for the sake of arguing hahahaha

 

[Witz]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

Good that we can laugh at ourselves despite the arguing.

 

[Chaos Commish]

evidence dump

The FBI dispatched at least 10 special agents to Central Florida to investigate the Trayvon Martin shooting, records filed in Seminole County Court show.



The agents interviewed up to a dozen firearms dealers, gun range employees and private investigators about George Zimmerman, according to a court document filed Friday by Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda. Another 11 investigators from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement also joined the probe.



"Two FBI agents showed up here with a picture of Zimmerman asked me if I recognized him," said gun dealer Khaled Akkawi, who was listed as a witness in the case. "They were pretty much asking along the lines of if he had made racial comments or anything. My employees told me it couldn't be further from the truth...

The package of evidence O'Mara received included seven compact discs and hundreds of pages of documents, the defense attorney said on his website.

"It includes surveillance video, police radio transmissions, crime scene photos, 911 calls Mr. Zimmerman made prior to the night of the shooting, and more," he wrote. "The documents include a crime scene diagram, and additional reports from the Sanford Police Department, FDLE, and the FBI. … The discovery process is ongoing, and we expect additional discovery to be disclosed as the case develops."

The judge gave O'Mara 30 days to review the new evidence before it is made public.

Prosecutors said they plan to release six recordings of Zimmerman's jailhouse phone calls being used in evidence in his wife's perjury case. Initially the State Attorney's Office said it planned to release 151 of Zimmerman's calls, but held off after O'Mara objected.

 

[Christo]

evidence dump

The FBI dispatched at least 10 special agents to Central Florida to investigate the Trayvon Martin shooting, records filed in Seminole County Court show.



The agents interviewed up to a dozen firearms dealers, gun range employees and private investigators about George Zimmerman, according to a court document filed Friday by Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda. Another 11 investigators from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement also joined the probe.



"Two FBI agents showed up here with a picture of Zimmerman asked me if I recognized him," said gun dealer Khaled Akkawi, who was listed as a witness in the case. "They were pretty much asking along the lines of if he had made racial comments or anything. My employees told me it couldn't be further from the truth...

The package of evidence O'Mara received included seven compact discs and hundreds of pages of documents, the defense attorney said on his website.

"It includes surveillance video, police radio transmissions, crime scene photos, 911 calls Mr. Zimmerman made prior to the night of the shooting, and more," he wrote. "The documents include a crime scene diagram, and additional reports from the Sanford Police Department, FDLE, and the FBI. … The discovery process is ongoing, and we expect additional discovery to be disclosed as the case develops."

The judge gave O'Mara 30 days to review the new evidence before it is made public.

Prosecutors said they plan to release six recordings of Zimmerman's jailhouse phone calls being used in evidence in his wife's perjury case. Initially the State Attorney's Office said it planned to release 151 of Zimmerman's calls, but held off after O'Mara objected.

Really? 21 Federal and State agents to investigate a guy who's already been charged with Murder 2?

 

[Chaos Commish]

evidence dump

The FBI dispatched at least 10 special agents to Central Florida to investigate the Trayvon Martin shooting, records filed in Seminole County Court show.



The agents interviewed up to a dozen firearms dealers, gun range employees and private investigators about George Zimmerman, according to a court document filed Friday by Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda. Another 11 investigators from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement also joined the probe.



"Two FBI agents showed up here with a picture of Zimmerman asked me if I recognized him," said gun dealer Khaled Akkawi, who was listed as a witness in the case. "They were pretty much asking along the lines of if he had made racial comments or anything. My employees told me it couldn't be further from the truth...

The package of evidence O'Mara received included seven compact discs and hundreds of pages of documents, the defense attorney said on his website.

"It includes surveillance video, police radio transmissions, crime scene photos, 911 calls Mr. Zimmerman made prior to the night of the shooting, and more," he wrote. "The documents include a crime scene diagram, and additional reports from the Sanford Police Department, FDLE, and the FBI. … The discovery process is ongoing, and we expect additional discovery to be disclosed as the case develops."

The judge gave O'Mara 30 days to review the new evidence before it is made public.

Prosecutors said they plan to release six recordings of Zimmerman's jailhouse phone calls being used in evidence in his wife's perjury case. Initially the State Attorney's Office said it planned to release 151 of Zimmerman's calls, but held off after O'Mara objected.

Really? 21 Federal and State agents to investigate a guy who's already been charged with Murder 2?

I think the Feds got involved to see if they had a hate crime prior to the arrest. eta: point taken though... and not 21 but at least 21... sheesh.

 

[Charlie Frown]

evidence dump

The FBI dispatched at least 10 special agents to Central Florida to investigate the Trayvon Martin shooting, records filed in Seminole County Court show.



The agents interviewed up to a dozen firearms dealers, gun range employees and private investigators about George Zimmerman, according to a court document filed Friday by Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda. Another 11 investigators from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement also joined the probe.



"Two FBI agents showed up here with a picture of Zimmerman asked me if I recognized him," said gun dealer Khaled Akkawi, who was listed as a witness in the case. "They were pretty much asking along the lines of if he had made racial comments or anything. My employees told me it couldn't be further from the truth...

The package of evidence O'Mara received included seven compact discs and hundreds of pages of documents, the defense attorney said on his website.

"It includes surveillance video, police radio transmissions, crime scene photos, 911 calls Mr. Zimmerman made prior to the night of the shooting, and more," he wrote. "The documents include a crime scene diagram, and additional reports from the Sanford Police Department, FDLE, and the FBI. … The discovery process is ongoing, and we expect additional discovery to be disclosed as the case develops."

The judge gave O'Mara 30 days to review the new evidence before it is made public.

Prosecutors said they plan to release six recordings of Zimmerman's jailhouse phone calls being used in evidence in his wife's perjury case. Initially the State Attorney's Office said it planned to release 151 of Zimmerman's calls, but held off after O'Mara objected.

Really? 21 Federal and State agents to investigate a guy who's already been charged with Murder 2?

Just to make sure it was a crime of love and not a crime of hate.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If convicted of Manslaughter, or Murder, and if racial bias or profiling could be proven, would that make this a hate crime?

When I think of "hate crime" I think someone being attacked, beaten, or killed, because of their ethnicity or sexual orientation. I don't think that is the case here, but it could have been that Zimmerman was profiling Martin.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If convicted of Manslaughter, or Murder, and if racial bias or profiling could be proven, would that make this a hate crime? When I think of "hate crime" I think someone being attacked, beaten, or killed, because of their ethnicity or sexual orientation. I don't think that is the case here, but it could have been that Zimmerman was profiling Martin.

I'm sure if you google Zimmerman FBI Hate Crime, you'll get the articles from April. Oversimplified, I think it came down to the Feds having to prove he killed Trayvon because he was black. That comes with the death penalty, btw.

 

[jon_mx]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

 

[timschochet]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

 

[fatness]

The defense said it plans to call at least two witnesses at George Zimmerman's bond hearing later this month. The witnesses are bond agents from Magic Bail Bonds, which posted Zimmerman's 150,000 bond the first time.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Shaeffer said that indicates to him that the defense is gearing up for a battle. "Clearly, Mr. O'Mara wants to show that Zimmerman has abided by all conditions of release while he was on bond and that the bondsman is secure in writing yet another bond," Sheaffer said. Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, told the judge at the first bond hearing that it was crucial to his defense that Zimmerman bond out of jail.

WFTV went to Shellie Zimmerman's parents' house to talk to her, but neighbors said the family packed up a moving van days ago and left.

June 14

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The defense said it plans to call at least two witnesses at George Zimmerman's bond hearing later this month. The witnesses are bond agents from Magic Bail Bonds, which posted Zimmerman's 150,000 bond the first time.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Shaeffer said that indicates to him that the defense is gearing up for a battle. "Clearly, Mr. O'Mara wants to show that Zimmerman has abided by all conditions of release while he was on bond and that the bondsman is secure in writing yet another bond," Sheaffer said. Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, told the judge at the first bond hearing that it was crucial to his defense that Zimmerman bond out of jail.

WFTV went to Shellie Zimmerman's parents' house to talk to her, but neighbors said the family packed up a moving van days ago and left.

June 14

Are you just posting information? Or are you implying some connection between the 2 quotes?

 

[jon_mx]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

 

[timschochet]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

You're wrong. Holder, in this instance, is only doing what any attorney general, either Democrat or Republican, would do faced with the public pressure of this case. It is guys like Sharpton who are the impetus. And actually, they're only opportunists who are riding the wave of resentment caused by the issues I stated above. Removing Holder will not cause any of this to go away.

 

[mad sweeney]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

Sounds like someone I know.

 

[jon_mx]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

You're wrong. Holder, in this instance, is only doing what any attorney general, either Democrat or Republican, would do faced with the public pressure of this case. It is guys like Sharpton who are the impetus. And actually, they're only opportunists who are riding the wave of resentment caused by the issues I stated above. Removing Holder will not cause any of this to go away.

Without any evidence of any racial motivation, sending 20 plus agents for a fishing expedition is a friggin joke. Absolutely disgusting. Holder is absolutely terrible on everything he touches. The justice system should not be run by radical racial activists. There is no justification for this. Just because the media beats the drum with mostly misinformation is not justification for this bullcrap.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

You're wrong. Holder, in this instance, is only doing what any attorney general, either Democrat or Republican, would do faced with the public pressure of this case. It is guys like Sharpton who are the impetus. And actually, they're only opportunists who are riding the wave of resentment caused by the issues I stated above. Removing Holder will not cause any of this to go away.

Without any evidence of any racial motivation, sending 20 plus agents for a fishing expedition is a friggin joke. Absolutely disgusting. Holder is absolutely terrible on everything he touches. The justice system should not be run by radical racial activists. There is no justification for this. Just because the media beats the drum with mostly misinformation is not justification for this bullcrap.

Agree with the bolded..

 

[Charlie Frown]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner.

Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

Sharpton doesn't bother me. I was thinking Eric Holder, who abuses one of the most powerful offices in the land to promote his race-baiting agenda. I said it nearly three years ago that Holder was the absolute worst Obama appointment, and it continues to be proven time after time after time. He is an idiot with an agenda.

You're wrong. Holder, in this instance, is only doing what any attorney general, either Democrat or Republican, would do faced with the public pressure of this case. It is guys like Sharpton who are the impetus. And actually, they're only opportunists who are riding the wave of resentment caused by the issues I stated above. Removing Holder will not cause any of this to go away.

I thought the "authorities" were not bowing to public pressure in this case? Funny that Holder was powerless to resist but the state/local government were not.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This should be entertaining.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

This should be entertaining.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/audio_george_zimmerman_jailhouse_phone_calls.php?ref=fpb

 

[Zow]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

It's not common, but a healthy fraction of bond hearings include witness testimony.I still don't know why it matters though. The idea the officer was ambushed is still just as silly.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

George Zimmerman summary...

"Ah man, that feels good." he said.

 

[Witz]

George Zimmerman summary...

"Ah man, that feels good." he said.

....and on this weeks episode of 'Out of Context' theater..

 

[BigSteelThrill]

George Zimmerman summary...

"Ah man, that feels good." he said.

....and on this weeks episode of 'Out of Context' theater..

Zero context. Not 'Out of context.'

 

[Witz]

George Zimmerman summary...

"Ah man, that feels good." he said.

....and on this weeks episode of 'Out of Context' theater..

Zero context. Not 'Out of context.'

Based on who wrote that, there most certainly was context.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

This should be entertaining.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/audio_george_zimmerman_jailhouse_phone_calls.php?ref=fpb

(George Zimmerman AKA low talker )

 

[fatness]

Awwwww.....

Besides the conversations about finances, the newly released phone calls shed light on the relationship between George and Shellie Zimmerman. In one exchange, they talk optimistically about their future together.

"After this, ... you're going to be able to just have a great life," Shellie Zimmerman said.

"We will," replies her husband.

The two also talk about the support Zimmerman has received from the public, in the wake of the controversy that followed the Martin shooting.

"You're special and (an) amazing role model to people, honey," his wife said.

"Hmm, I wish, I wish I were," Zimmerman said.

 

[fatness]

Phone call transcripts.

 

[pantherclub]

Awwwww.....

Besides the conversations about finances, the newly released phone calls shed light on the relationship between George and Shellie Zimmerman. In one exchange, they talk optimistically about their future together.

"After this, ... you're going to be able to just have a great life," Shellie Zimmerman said.

"We will," replies her husband.

The two also talk about the support Zimmerman has received from the public, in the wake of the controversy that followed the Martin shooting.

"You're special and (an) amazing role model to people, honey," his wife said.

"Hmm, I wish, I wish I were," Zimmerman said.

$20 says she was banging another dude while he was locked up.

 

[kentric]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..Hypothetical:Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I have always felt that this is how it is going to play out barring any evidence we haven't heard about.

The prosecution testified under oath that they have no proof George started the confrontation. However, the charging affidavit, also a sworn statement subject to perjury, clearly states that George confronted Trayvon.

Actually, one detective who was unprepared and ambushed at a bond hearing testified that he didn't know of any proof. That doesn't mean that's all there is.

 

[kentric]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

I can find websites for making a bomb. That makes it common practice to make bombs? Serious question. Do you have any kids and if you do, how old? Maybe we should start a poll - is it common (you can throw out the percentages) for teams to paint murals (although I haven't seen anything specifying what form of defacement took place) on walls.

 

[kentric]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

How does the bolded qualify your statement that it is common? If only one-tenth of one percent of people paint graffiti then one-twentieth would represent suburban males from pre-teen to early 20s. This has no bearing.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Making bombs is equivalent to graffiti art now. Good to know.

 

[kentric]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

Difficult to fault the Feds for getting involved in such a high-profile case.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

:whoosh:

 

[kentric]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

 

[noleswin]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner. Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

What exactly is meant by WE? This is the problem I have. I have a 19 year old son and an 11 year old son. I'm not out looking for any WE to raise them and teach them right from wrong. I'm also not looking for any government (Tax Payer) money to do this. This is my job and the responsibility I took on as an adult when making the decission to become a parent. People should stop looking for others to solve their poor parenting decissions and stop having kids that they are not responsible enough to raise.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

 

[timschochet]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner. Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

What exactly is meant by WE? This is the problem I have. I have a 19 year old son and an 11 year old son. I'm not out looking for any WE to raise them and teach them right from wrong. I'm also not looking for any government (Tax Payer) money to do this. This is my job and the responsibility I took on as an adult when making the decission to become a parent. People should stop looking for others to solve their poor parenting decissions and stop having kids that they are not responsible enough to raise.

If you're not home schooling your children (and perhaps you are) then the government is helping you to raise them. They're certainly helping me. I consider myself to be doing pretty well financially, but I don't know where I'd be if the taxpayers didn't help to pay for my kids' education.In any case, the broader answer to your question is that I firmly believe that if we do nothing to address the poor conditions of African-American urban youths, it will actually cost us more as a society in the long run. Whether or not you or I have a moral responsibility to address these concerns is an open question, but it is secondary to a basic cost-gain analysis.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

 

[timschochet]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

 

[BustedKnuckles]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Thats pretty funny Tim (snicker)

 

[noleswin]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner. Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

What exactly is meant by WE? This is the problem I have. I have a 19 year old son and an 11 year old son. I'm not out looking for any WE to raise them and teach them right from wrong. I'm also not looking for any government (Tax Payer) money to do this. This is my job and the responsibility I took on as an adult when making the decission to become a parent. People should stop looking for others to solve their poor parenting decissions and stop having kids that they are not responsible enough to raise.

If you're not home schooling your children (and perhaps you are) then the government is helping you to raise them. They're certainly helping me. I consider myself to be doing pretty well financially, but I don't know where I'd be if the taxpayers didn't help to pay for my kids' education.In any case, the broader answer to your question is that I firmly believe that if we do nothing to address the poor conditions of African-American urban youths, it will actually cost us more as a society in the long run. Whether or not you or I have a moral responsibility to address these concerns is an open question, but it is secondary to a basic cost-gain analysis.

Nice response but I don't think you were refering to being able to send them to public school in your original post. Because last time I checked urban black youths have access to public schools. So if school was the government sponsered program you were talking about they already have access to it. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe someone is taking public school away from them. Maybe I owe a great deal to the public school system if this is all it takes to "prevent the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution".

 

[TexanFan02]

Are we down to arguing about what we're arguing about in this thread? Has Christo discovered aliases or something?

 

[pittstownkiller]

The feds involvement is one of the most sickening aspects of this. A pure fishing expedition which was an attempt to influences charges in this case. Just because Zimmerman is perceived as white is not probable cause for the political witch hint that occurred. I hate the racial politics which drive this.

I don't like them much either, and I don't think any reasonable person who cares about this country should like them. But the racial politics that created stuff like this didn't appear out of nowhere, and unfortunately your attempt to combat it merely by expressing a conservative point of view isn't going to have any effect. The only way to get rid of this stuff is for the police in this country, as a general rule, to treat black youths in the same way that they treat white youths. Which means: no more profiling. Furthermore, we have to find a way, SOME WAY, to lift urban black youths out of the never-ending spiral of crime and destitution that so many of them are locked into. And that's probably going to mean government money and government programs on a big scale, which I know you oppose. But it's going to have to be done in some manner. Until these things happen, there's always going to be fuel for the Al Sharptons of the world to build up racial politics and resentment, and the reaction to stories like this are always going to be what they are.

What exactly is meant by WE? This is the problem I have. I have a 19 year old son and an 11 year old son. I'm not out looking for any WE to raise them and teach them right from wrong. I'm also not looking for any government (Tax Payer) money to do this. This is my job and the responsibility I took on as an adult when making the decission to become a parent. People should stop looking for others to solve their poor parenting decissions and stop having kids that they are not responsible enough to raise.

If you're not home schooling your children (and perhaps you are) then the government is helping you to raise them. They're certainly helping me. I consider myself to be doing pretty well financially, but I don't know where I'd be if the taxpayers didn't help to pay for my kids' education.In any case, the broader answer to your question is that I firmly believe that if we do nothing to address the poor conditions of African-American urban youths, it will actually cost us more as a society in the long run. Whether or not you or I have a moral responsibility to address these concerns is an open question, but it is secondary to a basic cost-gain analysis.

Well Tim there is always private schooling if you don't want to get involved on home schooling. I would also suggest that you wait on thanking all your fellow taxpayers for the education that your children are getting; you get what you pay for.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Pssst....In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing W.T.F. on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald.And for the love of god just stop with the other crap. No evidence of swinging at bus drivers ...or mma fights or any of that, complete hearsay on the internet.

As for the ''stolen property'' , thats a load of hearsay crap also..A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”Advertise | AdChoicesBen Crump, an attorney for Martin’s parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.

“And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” Crump told the Miami Herald. “They never heard this and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

So please just stop the nonsense C.H

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Pretty fitting that you'd know the words to that song..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Pssst....In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald.And for the love of god just stop with the other crap. No evidence of swinging at bus drivers ...or mma fights or any of that, complete hearsay on the internet.

As for the ''stolen property'' , thats a load of hearsay crap also..A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”Advertise | AdChoicesBen Crump, an attorney for Martin’s parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.

“And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” Crump told the Miami Herald. “They never heard this and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

So please just stop the nonsense C.H

You insinuated that this is what most teenagers are doing.. That's not true..Several school suspensions in one year, and illegal drug use kinda set the narrative for all the other alleged transgressions.. Where there's smoke, there's fire..

You say it's a "load of hearsay crap".. Point is, you're dismissing it without even knowing whether it happened or not. You think he's never gotten away with anything in his life? Certainly there is other stuff out there..

Regardless.. The multiple suspensions and illegal drug use are enough.. I would be concerned if that were my child, and it seems his parents were as well.. He was sent to stay with his father after that last suspension..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Pssst....In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald.And for the love of god just stop with the other crap. No evidence of swinging at bus drivers ...or mma fights or any of that, complete hearsay on the internet.

As for the ''stolen property'' , thats a load of hearsay crap also..A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”Advertise | AdChoicesBen Crump, an attorney for Martin’s parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.

“And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” Crump told the Miami Herald. “They never heard this and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

So please just stop the nonsense C.H

You insinuated that this is what most teenagers are doing.. That's not true..Several school suspensions in one year, and illegal drug use kinda set the narrative for all the other alleged transgressions.. Where there's smoke, there's fire..

You say it's a "load of hearsay crap".. Point is, you're dismissing it without even knowing whether it happened or not. You think he's never gotten away with anything in his life? Certainly there is other stuff out there..

Regardless.. The multiple suspensions and illegal drug use are enough.. I would be concerned if that were my child, and it seems his parents were as well.. He was sent to stay with his father after that last suspension..

This is getting comical 3 suspensions not several., and one was for being tardy to many times . At least if you are going to bring up all that crap have some proof other than hearsay. Even zimmerman has his transgressions documanted in court papers.You seem like you want sooo bad for him to be this bad kid when it just isnt adding up, just stop.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You stated,"my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids." and you follow up with some inane statistics. I'm just saying your statistics have no validity at all in support of your argument. I also feel sorry for the environment you're living in if you feel that its common practice and normal for kids to do this.

The point of the whole discussion was C.H calling Treyvon a thug and citing him tagging a locker at his school. Im simply saying its not just gangbangers that tag stuff, its done by all types of people and im sure its VERY common the area of Miami where treyvon lives.

Psst, I don't think it was a locker.. And I think there was more than graffiti (multiple school suspensions in one year, illegal drugs, and other alleged incidents.. Stolen property, taking a swing at a bus driver, taking part in organizing fights at school), .... and I didn't call him a thug. I said he may have been on the wrong path..And I believe someone implied that "Most Teenagers" are like this... Which isn't true..

Blowing every time you move your mouthBlowing down the backroads heading south

Pssst....In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker, according to a school report obtained by the Herald.And for the love of god just stop with the other crap. No evidence of swinging at bus drivers ...or mma fights or any of that, complete hearsay on the internet.

As for the ''stolen property'' , thats a load of hearsay crap also..A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”Advertise | AdChoicesBen Crump, an attorney for Martin’s parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.

“And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” Crump told the Miami Herald. “They never heard this and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”

So please just stop the nonsense C.H

You insinuated that this is what most teenagers are doing.. That's not true..Several school suspensions in one year, and illegal drug use kinda set the narrative for all the other alleged transgressions.. Where there's smoke, there's fire..

You say it's a "load of hearsay crap".. Point is, you're dismissing it without even knowing whether it happened or not. You think he's never gotten away with anything in his life? Certainly there is other stuff out there..

Regardless.. The multiple suspensions and illegal drug use are enough.. I would be concerned if that were my child, and it seems his parents were as well.. He was sent to stay with his father after that last suspension..

This is getting comical 3 suspensions not several., and one was for being tardy to many times . At least if you are going to bring up all that crap have some proof other than hearsay. Even zimmerman has his transgressions documanted in court papers.You seem like you want sooo bad for him to be this bad kid when it just isnt adding up, just stop.

3 times can be considered several when it's something that's not typical.. You get 3 DUI's, thats several.. You go into a rage and kill 3 people, thats killing several.. You get suspended 3 times in one year, that several suspensions.. But if it makes you feel better, lets call it multiple.. He was suspended multiple times in one year.. Hows that? :highfive:You've been arguing nonsense for so long, you've lost sight of the initial discussion..

The question was, did I think he deserved to die..

I answered: No, but he may have been on a bad path, if so, getting shot may have been inevitable..

I have no interest in villainizing the kid. He's dead, and I've been lured into arguing over a stupid point that has no bearing on the case..

Your argument was that he wasn't on a bad path, maybe, maybe not.. And most teenagers are like this (illegal drugs, multiple suspensions, several other allegations) Which isn't true..