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For the love of God, do not elect Hilary Clinton next election. (1 Viewer)

It's getting worse and even more serious.

The FBI is now investigating whoever at State or presumably in the government who would have emailed Hillary classified info because by doing so they were improperly transmitting naturally classified data. Which is punishable and against the regs and maybe even the law.

And oh yeah they're checking into whether foreign governments may have accessed some of this data.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/15/us/fbi-tracking-path-of-email-to-hillary-clinton-at-state-department.html?_r=1&referrer=&referrer=

If true this would have made Hillary a sort of Venus Flytrap during her time as SOS.
So since Hillary is NOT the subject of any investigation, her email account is, if they find laws were broken does her email account go to jail? Or is it the server, which they already have in custody?
Hillary is running short of wriggle room, isn't she? I realize of course the difference between whether Hillary committed a crime vs whether the DOJ will prosecute her for that crime, but just so people know:

- She is being investigated. You have to track the language. They have said she is not a "target."

Mrs. Clinton herself is not a target of the investigation.

F.B.I. agents investigating Hillary Rodham Clinton’s private email server..

Law enforcement officials have said that Mrs. Clinton, who is seeking the 2016 Democratic nomination for president, is not a target of the investigation, and she has said there is no evidence that her account was hacked.

In an unusual move, the F.B.I.’s inquiry is being led out of its headquarters in Washington, blocks from the White House. Nearly all investigations are assigned to one of the bureau’s 56 field offices. But given this inquiry’s importance, senior F.B.I. officials have opted to keep it closely held in Washington in the agency’s counterintelligence section, which investigates how national security secrets are handled. The investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s emails has its roots in her decision to use only a private email account for her official business when she was secretary of state, an unorthodox decision that gave her some control over what was made public.

she is fully cooperating with the investigation

In addition, specially trained cybersecurity investigators will seek to determine whether Russian, Chinese or other hackers breached the account or tried to transfer any of Mrs. Clinton’s emails, including those containing the classified information, several officials said.

...
There is a difference between being a target and being investigated. Right now everyone and everything is being investigated. No one is a target. People may or may not realize this but a person does not become a "target" until they receive a "target letter" which happens once an investigation has formally reached some conclusions about possible wrongdoing. That has not happened to anyone yet.

Basically State is and has been pushing back in a number of ways probably because there are people who are complicit in what was going on there and also because they know Hillary could be president and they fear for their political futures and careers. - There is also information being leaked out from State about what is going on and has been since the beginning and the reason is because there are career foreign service, State personnel who take their jobs very seriously and they follow these rules on classification and protection of data every day at the risk of their lives and the cost to their country and my guess is the idea of Hillary being their commander in chief makes them sick.

The DOJ demanded her server and the extra drive and they moved with lightning speed after the IGs made their referral - Hillary, along with others, is being investigated, period. I think the original NYT report was correct and is pretty close even right now to being fully vindicated.
It certainly is an investigation of her. Go to the end of this piece which I had posted in the other Hillary thread.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/14/hillarys-lame-e-mail-excuse-the-server-did-it/
Yeah I just read it and I agree.

This is the original NYT report:

Criminal Inquiry Sought in Clinton’s Use of Email

WASHINGTON — Two inspectors general have asked the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation into whether Hillary Rodham Clinton mishandled sensitive government information on a private email account she used as secretary of state, senior government officials said Thursday.

...
http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/942784/942817/www.nytimes.com/2015/07/24/us/politics/criminal-inquiry-sought-in-hillary-clintons-use-of-email.html

That is proving to be true. That whole report is proving to have been true but the Hillary campaign put seriously heavy pressure on the highest levels of the Times to change the reporting. Look at the timeline above, it has all come exactly as stated in that piece.

 
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The DOJ demanded her server and the extra drive and they moved with lightning speed after the IGs made their referral - Hillary, along with others, is being investigated, period. I think the original NYT report was correct and is pretty close even right now to being fully vindicated.
So is it one server or two? I'm somewhat confused on this point.
Should the NYT get credit for the original story being "correct" when they corrected the article before it was printed?
 
The DOJ demanded her server and the extra drive and they moved with lightning speed after the IGs made their referral - Hillary, along with others, is being investigated, period. I think the original NYT report was correct and is pretty close even right now to being fully vindicated.
So is it one server or two? I'm somewhat confused on this point.
The server that Hillary handed to the FBI had its data migrated in June 2013. Then supposedly it was repurposed and later jammed into a warehouse in Jersey. It's a tin can but maybe the FBI can still get something off of it.

There is also a thumb drive with an electronic copy of what sounds like what Hillary handed to State for the FOIAs. That will be useful, but doesn't tell the whole story.

Hillary pulled her emails for State after their request in October 2014, obviously that was not done off the June 2013 server.

The question then becomes where did the data get migrated to in June 2013? We don't know that, maybe the FBI does but it hasn't been reported. It could have been with the Denver vendor who took things over in June 2013 or it could be on another server somewhere else, which we haven't heard of yet. But we're talking about data which of course can be anywhere. At any rate that's a big question mark right now at least for the public.

 
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What's the point of turning over a server that you have done your best to wipe clean? And is anyone not thinking that she wiped it to hide something and protect herself?

Suppose you caught your wife doing something that leads you to believe she's having an affair and she's been texting and calling the guy. You ask to see her phone and she gives you excuse after excuse to not give it to you. Eventually, you say you need to see it or you're leaving her. She reluctantly hands it over and everything has been deleted. Then she takes credit for giving it to you and even jokes about it. At that point, the affair wouldn't be my first concern.

 
The DOJ demanded her server and the extra drive and they moved with lightning speed after the IGs made their referral - Hillary, along with others, is being investigated, period. I think the original NYT report was correct and is pretty close even right now to being fully vindicated.
So is it one server or two? I'm somewhat confused on this point.
Its several things. First is the server she used as SOS - that is what she has turned over. It has been wiped clean - probably professionally, and all data was gone from this server as of June 2013. There is the thumb drive held by her attorney that presumably contains e-mails that she did not delete. These are the electronic version of the emails she turned over to state - nothing more.

Then there is an issue if she used another computer/server to store emails between June 2013, and 2014, when she responded to State's request for documents.

 
Clinton Defies the Law and Common SenseThe question of whether Hillary Clinton’s emails were marked top secret isn’t legally relevant. Any cabinet member should know that.

Michael B. Mukasey

Aug. 14, 2015 6:49 p.m. ET

Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server to conduct public business while serving as secretary of state, followed by the deletion of information on that server and the transfer to her lawyer of a thumb drive containing heretofore unexplored data, engages several issues of criminal law—but the overriding issue is one of plain common sense.

Let’s consider the potentially applicable criminal laws in order of severity.

It is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than a year to keep “documents or materials containing classified information . . . at an unauthorized location.” Note that it is the information that is protected; the issue doesn’t turn on whether the document or materials bear a classified marking. This is the statute under which David Petraeus—former Army general and Central Intelligence Agency director—was prosecuted for keeping classified information at home. Mrs. Clinton’s holding of classified information on a personal server was a violation of that law. So is transferring that information on a thumb drive to David Kendall, her lawyer.

Moving up the scale, the law relating to public records generally makes it a felony for anyone having custody of a “record or other thing” that is “deposited with . . . a public officer” to “remove” or “destroy” it, with a maximum penalty of three years. Emails are records, and the secretary of state is a public officer and by statute their custodian.

The Espionage Act defines as a felony, punishable by up to 10 years, the grossly negligent loss or destruction of “information relating to the national defense.” Note that at least one of the emails from the small random sample taken by the inspector general for the intelligence community contained signals intelligence and was classified top secret.

To be sure, this particular email was turned over, but on paper rather than in its original electronic form, without the metadata that went with it. If other emails of like sensitivity are among the 30,000 Mrs. Clinton erased, that is yet more problematic. The server is now in the hands of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, whose forensic skills in recovering data in situations like this are unexcelled.

The highest step in this ascending scale of criminal penalties—20 years maximum—is reached by anyone who destroys “any record, document or tangible object with intent to impede, obstruct or influence the proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States . . . or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter.”

So, for example, if Mrs. Clinton caused to be wiped out emails that might have been anticipated to be of interest to a congressional committee, such conduct would come within the sweep of the statute. That, by the way, is the obstruction-of-justice statute, as revised by the Sarbanes-Oxley law, passed by Congress in 2002 while Mrs. Clinton served as a senator, and for which she voted.

All of this is not to suggest that Mrs. Clinton is in real danger of going to jail any time soon. All of these laws require at least knowing conduct, and the obstruction statute requires specific intent to impede at least a contemplated proceeding. It is not helpful to Mrs. Clinton’s cause that the emails finally turned over to the State Department were in paper rather than electronic form, which makes it impossible to search them—and easier to alter them—and would thus tend to impede rather than advance a congressional investigation.

Further, we won’t know whether permanent damage was done by the email erasure unless someone manages to examine the thumb drive in the possession of Mr. Kendall. The actual erasure of material appears to have been done by one or more of Mrs. Clinton’s aides, and we can certainly expect some or all of them to dive, if not be thrown, under the bus. Nonetheless, these statutes serve at least to measure the severity with which the law views the conduct here.

The common-sense issues in this matter are more problematic than the criminal ones. Anyone who enters the Situation Room at the White House, where Mrs. Clinton was photographed during the Osama bin Laden raid, is required to place any personal electronic device in a receptacle outside the room, lest it be activated involuntarily and confidential communications disclosed.

Mrs. Clinton herself, in a now famous email, cautioned State Department employees not to conduct official business on personal email accounts. The current secretary of state, John Kerry, testified that he assumes that his emails have been the object of surveillance by hostile foreign powers. It is inconceivable that the nation’s senior foreign-relations official was unaware of the risk that communications about this country’s relationships with foreign governments would be of particular interest to those governments, and to others.

It is no answer to say, as Mrs. Clinton did at one time, that emails were not marked classified when sent or received. Of course they were not; there is no little creature sitting on the shoulders of public officials classifying words as they are uttered and sent. But the laws are concerned with the sensitivity of information, not the sensitivity of the markings on whatever may contain the information.

The culture in Washington, particularly among senior-executive officials, is pervasively risk-averse, and has been for some time. When I took office as U.S. attorney general in 2007, members of my staff saw to it that I stopped carrying a BlackBerry, lest I inadvertently send confidential information over an insecure network or lest it be activated, without my knowledge, and my communications monitored.

When I attended my first briefing in a secure facility, and brought a pad to take notes, my chief of staff leaned over and wrote in bold capital letters at the top of the first page, “TS/SCI,” meaning Top Secret, Secure Compartmentalized Information—which is to say, information that may be looked at only in what is known as a SCIF, a Secure, Compartmentalized Information Facility. My office was considered a SCIF; my apartment was not.

The point he was making by doing that—and this is just the point that seems to have eluded the former secretary of state—is one of common sense: Once you assume a public office, your communications about anything having to do with your job are not your personal business or property. They are the public’s business and the public’s property, and are to be treated as no different from communications of like sensitivity.

That something so obvious could have eluded Mrs. Clinton raises questions about her suitability both for the office she held and for the office she seeks.

Mr. Mukasey served as U.S. attorney general (2007-09) and as a U.S. district judge for the Southern District of New York (1988-2006).
http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-defies-the-law-and-common-sense-1439592595

Halperin of course was the author of Game Change. Mukasey is the former AG under Bush and was a federal judge.

- "SCIF" is another important designation, classified information can only be viewed and held in such an authorized facility.

 
..Six days later, Kendall turned over to the FBI his thumb drive — and two copies...
So as it turns out Kendall had extra copies - so that means that there were perhaps as many as 2 servers, 3 copies, and possibly backups. Containing the SOS's classified data and entire email trove.

 
..Six days later, Kendall turned over to the FBI his thumb drive — and two copies...
So as it turns out Kendall had extra copies - so that means that there were perhaps as many as 2 servers, 3 copies, and possibly backups. Containing the SOS's classified data and entire email trove.
I'm telling you, these are the ones that would really derail things. I wonder what percentage of those personal emails were really Clinton Foundation "donation" discussions.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
People still think she won't be President?
I still think Hillary has a better than 50% chance of being the next president. But she's clearly in a weaker position now than she was a couple of weeks ago. At this point, it looks like she committed at least some minor crimes (possibly more serious) and demonstrated breathtaking incompetence by bypassing ordinary government email protocol. The criminal part highlights a long-running issue with the Clintons, and the incompetence part undermines the (improbable to begin with) linchpin of her campaign.

Right now, her only strength is that she's seen as the adult in the room with Bernie Sanders on one side and Donald Trump on the other side. If a serious Democratic challenger enters the race, or if she has to run against a non-insane Republican (like Jeb Bush), she could easily lose.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that Sanders and Trump are mirror images of one another. Sanders is a respectable guy who just happens to hold views that are outside our national mainstream. Trump is an #######. But you know what I mean. Hillary is the centrist in the this bunch.

 
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SHIZNITTTT said:
People still think she won't be President?
I still think Hillary has a better than 50% chance of being the next president. But she's clearly in a weaker position now than she was a couple of weeks ago. At this point, it looks like she committed at least some minor crimes (possibly more serious) and demonstrated breathtaking incompetence by bypassing ordinary government email protocol. The criminal part highlights a long-running issue with the Clintons, and the incompetence part undermines the (improbable to begin with) linchpin of her campaign.

Right now, her only strength is that she's seen as the adult in the room with Bernie Sanders on one side and Donald Trump on the other side. If a serious Democratic challenger enters the race, or if she has to run against a non-insane Republican (like Jeb Bush), she could easily lose.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that Sanders and Trump are mirror images of one another. Sanders is a respectable guy who just happens to hold views that are outside our national mainstream. Trump is an #######. But you know what I mean. Hillary is the centrist in the this bunch.
She's certainly the clear "more of the same" candidate on the dem side.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
People still think she won't be President?
I still think Hillary has a better than 50% chance of being the next president. But she's clearly in a weaker position now than she was a couple of weeks ago. At this point, it looks like she committed at least some minor crimes (possibly more serious) and demonstrated breathtaking incompetence by bypassing ordinary government email protocol. The criminal part highlights a long-running issue with the Clintons, and the incompetence part undermines the (improbable to begin with) linchpin of her campaign.

Right now, her only strength is that she's seen as the adult in the room with Bernie Sanders on one side and Donald Trump on the other side. If a serious Democratic challenger enters the race, or if she has to run against a non-insane Republican (like Jeb Bush), she could easily lose.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that Sanders and Trump are mirror images of one another. Sanders is a respectable guy who just happens to hold views that are outside our national mainstream. Trump is an #######. But you know what I mean. Hillary is the centrist in the this bunch.
Sanders is guy who thinks having too many deodorant options is a major issue...that doesn't seem like full deck thinking to me....

 
People still think she won't be President?
More and more by the day
She is in a stronger position day by day while Trump is taking a flamethower to the Republicans.

Trump means less non-white voters for RNC and spurs a larger democrat turnout.

Most people have no idea what the emails are about nor do they care when they find out. Trump can call a POW a loser and it's wiped out in a few days. The emails are chickenfeed.

Hilary not magnetic. But wait until the force is behind her and you have Bill Clinton shredding people like Trump apart. They are not even trying yet. They shouldn't. Don't want to get candidate fatigue. Lay low.

Only person Hillary has to worry about is Sanders.

edit: meant less non-white voters for the RNC.

 
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People still think she won't be President?
More and more by the day
She is in a stronger position day by day while Trump is taking a flamethower to the Republicans.Trump means less white voters for RNC and spurs a larger democrat turnout.

Most people have no idea what the emails are about nor do they care when they find out. Trump can call a POW a loser and it's wiped out in a few days. The emails are chickenfeed.

Hilary not magnetic. But wait until the force is behind her and you have Bill Clinton shredding people like Trump apart. They are not even trying yet. They shouldn't. Don't want to get candidate fatigue. Lay low.

Only person Hillary has to worry about is Sanders.
The email scandal has as much effect on an undecided voter as Benghazi (read: none).

 
This is an article on the former location of the Denver vendor who held Hillary's data. The company moved to a new site which I posted about earlier. This is about the old site which is a different address and apparently it was residential.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201367/Hillary-s-email-firm-run-loft-apartment-servers-BATHROOM-raising-new-questions-security-sensitive-messages-held.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
OMG - A RESIDENTIAL ADDRESS!!!!!!

 
This is an article on the former location of the Denver vendor who held Hillary's data. The company moved to a new site which I posted about earlier. This is about the old site which is a different address and apparently it was residential.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201367/Hillary-s-email-firm-run-loft-apartment-servers-BATHROOM-raising-new-questions-security-sensitive-messages-held.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
If that "IT Company" was anything other than the federal government, there's a problem in my eyes unless our federal government is in the business of giving specifics on how to secure machines to federal standards to private companies. Honestly, I guess I shouldn't rule that possibility out. :oldunsure:

 
Dude, it had a 4 digit password and it was set to auto-lock after 30 minutes of inactivity. I'm not sure what you guys' problem is.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to hack a 4 digit passcode on a blackberry?

 
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Dude, it had a 4 digit password and it was set to auto-lock after 30 minutes of inactivity. I'm not sure what you guys' problem is.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to hack a 4 digit passcode on a blackberry?
depends on if there was a capital letter and/or a special character

 
Ill bet you $10,000
Damn. I know you mean it too. What fascinates me about you, tommyboy, are not your political convictions (many people share those) but your absolute continual certainty that "your side" is going to win, despite the fact that quite often they don't.

 
Ill bet you $10,000
Damn. I know you mean it too.What fascinates me about you, tommyboy, are not your political convictions (many people share those) but your absolute continual certainty that "your side" is going to win, despite the fact that quite often they don't.
i have no idea who's going to win, i just know that Hillary has zero chance, as I've said repeatedly since before this thread even started. The fact she's under serious federal investigation might be a small clue, but the other fact that she couldn't beat a freshman senator in 2008 is a larger one. She's just not likable, or trustworthy, and her time has passed.

there is currently no one running for president that excites me, congratulations America. We're all losers here

 

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