NCCommish
Footballguy
Now don't confuse me with the never visit types. I could see some legal paranoia being reasonable but personally I want to go to Tuscany and spend some time. Probably never get to though.
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Foxy Knoxy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Baloney Sandwich
- Start date
I'm really surprised at how many people think she actually did it. Why is that? Because she was acting weird right after the murder?
From everything I know about the case, the cops completely bungled the investigation, but even so, her DNA wasn't found anywhere on the crime scene. The prosecutor outright lied. And the whole story they came up with about the ritualistic sex orgy was just ludicrous and unbelievable. And from certain things I've read over the years about the Italian legal system, I got the impression it is pretty weird.
From everything I know about the case, the cops completely bungled the investigation, but even so, her DNA wasn't found anywhere on the crime scene. The prosecutor outright lied. And the whole story they came up with about the ritualistic sex orgy was just ludicrous and unbelievable. And from certain things I've read over the years about the Italian legal system, I got the impression it is pretty weird.
If I was in her shoes, and they acquitted me, and suddenly after a year and a half they want to look at the case, I'd tell them to pound sand. I know they aren't asking for her to go back yet, but even then, I heard that the US would say that amounts to double jeopardy, and keep her here.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
It reminds me of the Satan worshipping hysteria in the US in the '80s, culminating in the West Memphis thing. I have no idea if she did it, but the story the prosecution is putting forward, on the surface, doesn't pass the sniff test.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. 
B-Deep
Footballguy
I don't have an opinionbut you do realize none of what you said has any bearing on if she actually did it.Maybe the DNA not being found has some. Other than that all you did was try and say that from what you have read (probably mostly in american newspapers) that they did not prove she did it
NCCommish
Footballguy
How about they have a guy in prison whose DNA was everywhere? Even on the victims bra and panties IIRC. How about there is not one piece of physical evidence to tie her to the crime? And no motive?
Yea. That's kind of where I am. I haven't researched court documents or anything, but from what I have read or seen about it on TV, the whole theory on how and why she did it was absurd, along with the evidence being questionable at best.
Yea. This.
B-Deep
Footballguy
i was not and am not arguing she did itmy argument was his post did not address if she did it or not in any waya broader argument is we are half a world away getting info through the media and some of us are certain we know what happenedi think there are isolated points on both sides that when presented can make that side sound compelling
It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
whoknew
Footballguy
Incorrect.CAnthony > Foxy Knoxy > Jodi AriasMuch hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
B-Deep
Footballguy
See?nothing about this case seems to add upWhy did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
the two things I think most of us can agree on is:
1) Italian law is strange - i hesitate to overly critisize it because most of what I know about it is from this case alone, but the processes and procedures are very strange. I think we as Americans tend to think anyone who does anything differently from us is an idiot. speaking of idiots...
2)This case was bungled from the beginning and throughout - While I don;t want to pass judgement on all of ITaly for this case, it does seem the people in charge here screwed it up
IF i had to guess past that I'd guess there's a reasonable explanation of what happened somewhere in between the defense and the prosecution. How poorly Amanda Knox comes off in that or how much guilt she has, if any, are things I don't really have much thought on. The real story has not been told and likely never will.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Pretty sure the real story, the only one they could place with the victim, is doing 16 years right now.See?nothing about this case seems to add upWhy did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
the two things I think most of us can agree on is:
1) Italian law is strange - i hesitate to overly critisize it because most of what I know about it is from this case alone, but the processes and procedures are very strange. I think we as Americans tend to think anyone who does anything differently from us is an idiot. speaking of idiots...
2)This case was bungled from the beginning and throughout - While I don;t want to pass judgement on all of ITaly for this case, it does seem the people in charge here screwed it up
IF i had to guess past that I'd guess there's a reasonable explanation of what happened somewhere in between the defense and the prosecution. How poorly Amanda Knox comes off in that or how much guilt she has, if any, are things I don't really have much thought on. The real story has not been told and likely never will.
That's how criminal trials work. Actual guilt doesn't matter. Whether the prosecution can prove guilt is all that matters.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Dude. Is your car on blocks in the front yard?Foxy Knoxy ftw..Incorrect.CAnthony > Foxy Knoxy > Jodi AriasMuch hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
People deal with stress in all kinds of different ways and there's no normal reaction to extreme circumstances. Is that really the only reason people think she did it given the lack of evidence and motive?Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
whoknew
Footballguy
Yes. Why?Dude. Is your car on blocks in the front yard?Incorrect.CAnthony > Foxy Knoxy > Jodi AriasMuch hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
B-Deep
Footballguy
Yes, i understand thatbut when the question is asked IS she innocent and how will she be FOUNDthen the question of if she actually did it is not at all related to what the prosecution can or cannot prove. arguing the prosecution ####ed up so she did not do it is not correct, that just means she should be found innocent, not that she is
I was simply pointing out that the evidence was seriously lacking and was contaminated, and the motive the prosecution came up with was absurd and most likely fabricated. So what indication is there that she actually did do it? That was my question. I wasn't trying to debate the finer points of why someone is found guilty or innocent in a court of law. I simply did not understand what people were basing their opinions of her being guilty on. :dunno:
General Malaise
Footballguy
I probably wouldn't do cartwheels in front of interrogates, but that's just me.People deal with stress in all kinds of different ways and there's no normal reaction to extreme circumstances. Is that really the only reason people think she did it given the lack of evidence and motive?Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
It seems like the bottom half is a lot more meaty than the top half. All of that stuff that happened during the investigation, her statements, etc. happened when she was denied a lawyer and interrogated overnight and probably hadn't slept in 24 hours. I am under the impression that they were threatening her. She was a young girl who spoke very little Italian. I guess I can kind of understand and in a similar situation - being in a foreign country, not really speaking the language, and being accused of murder with seemingly no legal recourse - I'm not sure I would have acted differently.
It's definitely a little strange, but she may have been going crazy. I still don't think that's a compelling reason to think she is guilty of murder. I was really just wondering if there was some evidence out there or any indication that she did commit the crime other than she acted crazy and made false statements during a pretty brutal interrogation during which she was given no access to talk to legal counsel, the American embassy, etc.I probably wouldn't do cartwheels in front of interrogates, but that's just me.People deal with stress in all kinds of different ways and there's no normal reaction to extreme circumstances. Is that really the only reason people think she did it given the lack of evidence and motive?Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
People are claiming she didn't do it based on the information they have--which is the information that came out at trial filtered through the press. There's nothing unusual about that. The only people who actually know if she did it are the people who were there.
culdeus
Footballguy
IIRC she was seriously sleep deprived and hallucinating, or that was her story.I probably wouldn't do cartwheels in front of interrogates, but that's just me.People deal with stress in all kinds of different ways and there's no normal reaction to extreme circumstances. Is that really the only reason people think she did it given the lack of evidence and motive?Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
So if this happened in the US, she was found guilty and then it was overturned on appeal, the government could order another trial?She was found guilty by the trial court. It was reversed on appeal. Under that circumstance, double jeopardy doesn't apply in the US.There isn't a double jeopardy rule in Italy but obviously there is one here in the US. That is the primary reason the US will not comply with any request by Italy to send her back.Guess there is no double jeopardy rule in Italy.......
B-Deep
Footballguy
Why is what our law is relevant?She is being tried in Italy, they allow for appeals by the prosecutionSo if this happened in the US, she was found guilty and then it was overturned on appeal, the government could order another trial?She was found guilty by the trial court. It was reversed on appeal. Under that circumstance, double jeopardy doesn't apply in the US.There isn't a double jeopardy rule in Italy but obviously there is one here in the US. That is the primary reason the US will not comply with any request by Italy to send her back.Guess there is no double jeopardy rule in Italy.......
Brady Marino
Footballguy
So what you're saying is that it's time for her to dye her hair blonde, cut her hair short, get implants, find colored contacts, and find some shady guy to give her a new identity in Canada?She was found guilty by the trial court. It was reversed on appeal. Under that circumstance, double jeopardy doesn't apply in the US.There isn't a double jeopardy rule in Italy but obviously there is one here in the US. That is the primary reason the US will not comply with any request by Italy to send her back.Guess there is no double jeopardy rule in Italy.......
General Malaise
Footballguy
I didn't say she was guilty of murder.It seems like the bottom half is a lot more meaty than the top half. All of that stuff that happened during the investigation, her statements, etc. happened when she was denied a lawyer and interrogated overnight and probably hadn't slept in 24 hours. I am under the impression that they were threatening her. She was a young girl who spoke very little Italian. I guess I can kind of understand and in a similar situation - being in a foreign country, not really speaking the language, and being accused of murder with seemingly no legal recourse - I'm not sure I would have acted differently.It's definitely a little strange, but she may have been going crazy. I still don't think that's a compelling reason to think she is guilty of murder. I was really just wondering if there was some evidence out there or any indication that she did commit the crime other than she acted crazy and made false statements during a pretty brutal interrogation during which she was given no access to talk to legal counsel, the American embassy, etc.I probably wouldn't do cartwheels in front of interrogates, but that's just me.People deal with stress in all kinds of different ways and there's no normal reaction to extreme circumstances. Is that really the only reason people think she did it given the lack of evidence and motive?Why did she act like such a lunatic after she was arrested?It's really not close.Much hotter than both Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
Just thought her behavior was really strange. And making false statements doesn't make me think any more of her.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
It is highly relevant when the Italian government reaches out to the US seeking extradition. The US will typically only reject those types of requests if the foreign country's laws violate a US legal principle.Why is what our law is relevant?She is being tried in Italy, they allow for appeals by the prosecutionSo if this happened in the US, she was found guilty and then it was overturned on appeal, the government could order another trial?She was found guilty by the trial court. It was reversed on appeal. Under that circumstance, double jeopardy doesn't apply in the US.There isn't a double jeopardy rule in Italy but obviously there is one here in the US. That is the primary reason the US will not comply with any request by Italy to send her back.Guess there is no double jeopardy rule in Italy.......
Doug B
Footballguy
Hard to get rock-solid info ... bur from what I'm understanding from another board, now that she's in the U.S., she's untouchable. The Italian courts will try her in absentia, but the U.S. will not extradite her under any circumstances.Have no way to independently confirm that, and have no cites
Our law is relevant because the issue being discussed was whether the US would honor a request to send her back to Italy for the new trial. The post I responded to stated the US wouldn't send her back because the retrial violates double jeopardy principles. If what was happening did violate double jeopardy the US very well could refuse to send her back since she's a US citizen. I was pointing out that given the procedural posture it doesn't appear that a retrial violates double jeopardy.Why is what our law is relevant?She is being tried in Italy, they allow for appeals by the prosecutionSo if this happened in the US, she was found guilty and then it was overturned on appeal, the government could order another trial?She was found guilty by the trial court. It was reversed on appeal. Under that circumstance, double jeopardy doesn't apply in the US.There isn't a double jeopardy rule in Italy but obviously there is one here in the US. That is the primary reason the US will not comply with any request by Italy to send her back.Guess there is no double jeopardy rule in Italy.......
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Going to be hard for her to get a job if she does get convicted in absentiaEmployer: "Have you been convicted of any felonies?"Hard to get rock-solid info ... bur from what I'm understanding from another board, now that she's in the U.S., she's untouchable. The Italian courts will try her in absentia, but the U.S. will not extradite her under any circumstances.Have no way to independently confirm that, and have no cites
Amanda: "Oh, I was convicted of murder in Italy."
Employer:
I hear it's really hard to get a job if you're in prison.Going to be hard for her to get a job if she does get convicted in absentiaEmployer: "Have you been convicted of any felonies?"Hard to get rock-solid info ... bur from what I'm understanding from another board, now that she's in the U.S., she's untouchable. The Italian courts will try her in absentia, but the U.S. will not extradite her under any circumstances.Have no way to independently confirm that, and have no cites
Amanda: "Oh, I was convicted of murder in Italy."
Employer:
She isn't going to prison if she stays here.I hear it's really hard to get a job if you're in prison.Going to be hard for her to get a job if she does get convicted in absentiaEmployer: "Have you been convicted of any felonies?"Hard to get rock-solid info ... bur from what I'm understanding from another board, now that she's in the U.S., she's untouchable. The Italian courts will try her in absentia, but the U.S. will not extradite her under any circumstances.Have no way to independently confirm that, and have no cites
Amanda: "Oh, I was convicted of murder in Italy."
Employer:
Brady Marino
Footballguy
No, but the conversation continues.Employer: "Why aren't you in prison now?"She isn't going to prison if she stays here.I hear it's really hard to get a job if you're in prison.Going to be hard for her to get a job if she does get convicted in absentiaEmployer: "Have you been convicted of any felonies?"Hard to get rock-solid info ... bur from what I'm understanding from another board, now that she's in the U.S., she's untouchable. The Italian courts will try her in absentia, but the U.S. will not extradite her under any circumstances.Have no way to independently confirm that, and have no cites
Amanda: "Oh, I was convicted of murder in Italy."
Employer:
Amanda: "Um...because I haven't gone to Italy?"
Employer:
Amanda: "Is that bad?"
Employer:
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
The book is written, I believe it hits the stores next week. From a business standpoint, this latest ruling probably helps sales.
gmbacm
Footballguy
extra book sales.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
She is on ABC in 5 minutes
Das Boot
Footballguy
:subscribe:
It's not that hard. His DNA and fingerprints were all over the crime scene and he fled the country a couple of days after the murder.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Loved the shot of her sex diary, they flashed it quick but saw that one guy had to wear a condom while she let another go bare back and pull out.
