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Freeman benched for Glennon (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rjv
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Glennon is terrible right now IMO, this team is a couple plays from 2-1, now the season is about to go down the drain. Glennon is nowhere close to being ready to start. Massive downgrade for skill players IMO. It is AZ but I think the team is not going to respond well to this, Freeman is liked on the team not hated and he has kept his nose clean, held his chin up despite being ridiculed by the coach, hang in there Josh, your day is going to come.
NajehHejan
Footballguy
What to do with banged up Vjax? Can this rookie get him the rock?
shader
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Well Schiano gets what he worked so hard for.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
This looks like a last ditch effort by Schiano to save his job. It is head coach hot seat 101, when all else fails you go with a rookie QB and hope he plays well enough to buy you another year. Glennon did not look close to ready in preseason and this move leads me to downgrade the value of all Bucs.
So, instead of talking smack about schiano and feeling sorry for freeman can we get to the real pertinent questions here:
1) does anyone have any scouting on mike Glennan from college? What style of offense did he run? How nfl ready is he? How was he in preseason? What are the reports out of bucs practices? Does he throw a good deep ball? Strong or weak arm?
2) what does this do for the skill positions in the bucs? Doug Martin will surely see more work but he will also see stacked boxes until Glennan can show them that he can beat them with his arm. That might actually bode well for vjax/mike Williams.
Thoughts?
1) does anyone have any scouting on mike Glennan from college? What style of offense did he run? How nfl ready is he? How was he in preseason? What are the reports out of bucs practices? Does he throw a good deep ball? Strong or weak arm?
2) what does this do for the skill positions in the bucs? Doug Martin will surely see more work but he will also see stacked boxes until Glennan can show them that he can beat them with his arm. That might actually bode well for vjax/mike Williams.
Thoughts?
kevthegrad
Footballguy
Thank you RickyG for asking the questions that matter.
As a Doug Martin owner this horrifies me. But then again we've seen back up qb's come in and spark a team.
As a Doug Martin owner this horrifies me. But then again we've seen back up qb's come in and spark a team.
GrantK
Footballguy
STRENGTHS- Progress as a passer began to show in the final three games of the year, connecting on 65 percent of his throws for 274 yards a game, 11 touchdowns and just two picks in wins over Clemson, Maryland and Louisville in the Belk Bowl. Uses his height to see receivers running open in the short and medium ranges, making accurate throws to lead them into open areas after the catch. His long legs dont prevent him from running a pro-style attack, as he seems able to work from under center and run bootlegs. Arm strength is certainly sufficient to distribute the ball all over the field, and he can place it between defenders over the middle when his target sits down in zones.
WEAKNESSES- His average foot quickness will cause him issues trying to avoid defenders in a collapsing pocket. Tends to retreat instead of stepping up to deliver in the face of pressure -- though his arm gives him a chance to get the ball out of bounds or find an open target while still backpedalling. And while he has the arm and tight spiral to threaten defenses with the deep ball, his inconsistent accuracy and reading of coverages keep him from being efficient in the vertical game.
NFL COMPARISON Joe Flacco
BOTTOM LINE- The lean, strong-armed passer performed fairly well in a difficult situation (3,054 yards, 31 touchdowns) when asked to take over for Wolfpack legend Russell Wilson in 2011. If he improves his accuracy and pocket poise in his second season as a starter, as well as his ability to recognize what defenses are trying to takes away from him, scouts just might project him as an eventual starter.
WEAKNESSES- His average foot quickness will cause him issues trying to avoid defenders in a collapsing pocket. Tends to retreat instead of stepping up to deliver in the face of pressure -- though his arm gives him a chance to get the ball out of bounds or find an open target while still backpedalling. And while he has the arm and tight spiral to threaten defenses with the deep ball, his inconsistent accuracy and reading of coverages keep him from being efficient in the vertical game.
NFL COMPARISON Joe Flacco
BOTTOM LINE- The lean, strong-armed passer performed fairly well in a difficult situation (3,054 yards, 31 touchdowns) when asked to take over for Wolfpack legend Russell Wilson in 2011. If he improves his accuracy and pocket poise in his second season as a starter, as well as his ability to recognize what defenses are trying to takes away from him, scouts just might project him as an eventual starter.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Agree 100%. Glennon went to my alma mater, N.C. State, and I watched every game he played in college. I will be very surprised if he is ever even an average NFL starter.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
How much worse could he possibly be than what Freeman's shown so far.
my couch GM scouting report on Glennon:
He throws a good ball with good footwork. Has a very good deep throw. If he doesn't have good footwork he can look terribly bad. Doesn't see the field well. Likes to check down.
Can be good in shotgun and play action.
The system fit wise with the talent around him? Couldn't ask for much better
He throws a good ball with good footwork. Has a very good deep throw. If he doesn't have good footwork he can look terribly bad. Doesn't see the field well. Likes to check down.
Can be good in shotgun and play action.
The system fit wise with the talent around him? Couldn't ask for much better
CapnJB
Footballguy
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Do you have any answers or just wanted point out that people were not discussing what you wanted them to discuss?
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
I'm thinking this change might help Martin. I've been waiting all season for them to involve him more in the passing game and he could be a beneficiary if he sees a few more check down passes each game.
Right, so it seems he has a bit of john Skelton or Derek Anderson in him. Strong armed qb that takes shots down the field. This bodes well for vjax.
Look guys, if brian hoyer can step in a make Josh Gordon relevant, mike Glennan can do the same for vjax or mike Williams. Or both.
I'd be more worried about Doug Martin, who will see a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts until Glenno gives them a reason to do otherwise.
Look guys, if brian hoyer can step in a make Josh Gordon relevant, mike Glennan can do the same for vjax or mike Williams. Or both.
I'd be more worried about Doug Martin, who will see a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts until Glenno gives them a reason to do otherwise.
cheese
Footballguy
They actually run a pretty pro-style offense and he was a pocket passer with a good arm. Honestly, he was the prototype NFL QB prospect except he just made too many mistakes and always had average results. He just wasn't that good of a college QB which held him back. It's a different game though, and he is the "type" of QB you're usually looking for.
steveski
Footballguy
No way. Look how terrible rookie QB's have done the past couple years.
As a VJax owner, I think I like this. Glennon has an arm on him and VJax is clearly the deep ball guy. Defenses will be crowding the box and it should open up the passing game. I expect some awful passes and some beautiful deep passes. Luckily, the league I own Martin in is not for money or else I'd be pretty upset.
At the time when I posted that I didn't have answers BC I don't follow college football closely and had no beat on glennon whatsoever .
But I don't think it's what I wanted them to discuss...I think it's what MOST people here want to discuss.
Freeman is old news now. Fantasy football is all about now and moving forward.
Sorry if I offended you though
ebsteelers
Footballguy
I am hoping for this as a Martin owner Rookie qbs tend to rely on check downs to tes and rbs.
..#shouldofdraftedmccoy
Plus it couldnt get any worse then freeman right? i mean less thatn 50% completion percentage.. brutal
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Tau837
Footballguy
I watched all of his games in college.
Positives, based on my view of his play in college:
- 6'6"
- Strong arm that can make all the throws
- No injury history
- Comes from a football family
- Smart
- Zero issues off the field
Negatives, based on my view of his play in college:
- Not a strong leader
- Poor footwork
- Accuracy is below average
- Decision making is suspect
- Tends to panic under pressure
- Not very athletic
- Needs to add weight (but was unable to really do that in 5 years at N.C. State)
Some of those negatives can be improved with good coaching, but I’m not sure all of it can. I'm also not sure he's getting good coaching in Tampa.
Overall, he did not live up to expectations in college. N.C. State essentially pushed Russell Wilson to Wisconsin for his final season in order to get two seasons from Glennon... he had some nice moments, but ultimately was a disappointment.
I hope he surprises me and plays great; I am a fan. But I don't see it happening.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Josh Gordon was relevant before Hoyer, and VJax and Mike WIlliams were relevant before Glennon. This is a coach on the hot seat swinging for the fences with a young QB that likely is not ready, very similar to Del Rio and Gabbert two years ago.
That is why the other discussion is relevant. If Schiano was on solid ground as a head coach and making a move to a rookie is would read as Glennon being ready to take over, when the coach is on the hot seat it looks more like a desperation move.
lod01
Footballguy
The team is a loser with Freeman. Dude sucks bad. Time to find out if Glennon is a loser too.
Good point. But schiano on the hot seat does have a lot to do with freeman sucking does it not? So the benching could be BC at this point schiano feels that glennon, although maybe raw still, gives the team a better chance to win than freeman.
If schiano didn't feel that way, then why bench freeman to save his job?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Maybe I'll do a longer write up on Glennon now that he's the subject of so much interest, but the excutive summary is:
--Not very accurate
--Takes too many sacks
--Is underesized despite having ideal height
His best comps are:
Ryan Mallet -- except much smaller
Matt Leinart -- except nowhere near as accurate
As far as I can tell accuracy and ability to process information are something that's pretty much set when a player gets to the NFL. And Glennon is already 23. So I think pinning the odds on substantial development are fairly long.
By my estimate he's a replacement level backup.
--Not very accurate
--Takes too many sacks
--Is underesized despite having ideal height
His best comps are:
Ryan Mallet -- except much smaller
Matt Leinart -- except nowhere near as accurate
As far as I can tell accuracy and ability to process information are something that's pretty much set when a player gets to the NFL. And Glennon is already 23. So I think pinning the odds on substantial development are fairly long.
By my estimate he's a replacement level backup.
simey
Footballguy
I think Glennon has the talent to at least be an average NFL starter. He has a great arm on him, he is intelligent, and he isn't scared to throw into traffic, but he does need to work on ball security and reading D's better.
Agree 100%. Glennon went to my alma mater, N.C. State, and I watched every game he played in college. I will be very surprised if he is ever even an average NFL starter.
Rick James
Footballguy
Josh freeman sucks too. May as well see what you have with the young QB.
simey
Footballguy
State's record under Wilson was 6-7, 5-7, and 9-4. State's record under Glennon was 8-5, and 7-6. Wilson was more exciting to watch, but Glennon wasn't a big drop down in running the offense.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
steveski
Footballguy
VaTerp
Footballguy
No expert by any means but I've seen a lot of Glennon as he was a big prep star in VA and I watch a lot of ACC football and agree with most of the above.
He's one of those guy who looks the part and has certainly had his share of success (state championship, All American and top 3 ranked QB recruit in HS, solid career at NC State) but strikes me as a guy who will never put it all together enough to be a starting NFL QB due to the lack of accuracy and inconsistent decision making. FWIW he really struggled in his pre-season game against the Skins.
Statistically, Freeman has been awful so I understand the decision by Schiano to make a change. And Glennon is certainly capable of short term success but overall I would be concerned if I owned any Bucs skill players. I don't think Glennon is the answer and this team looks to be in pretty serious turmoil.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
I'm trying to figure out how VJax will be the check down. He is the guy the QB should look to first and then if he can't get it to him, he checks down to the slot guy or the TE or RB on a quick out. Glennon will not check down to VJax. It just doesn't work that way...
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Because if the Bucs continue to stink but Glennon shows improvement Schiano takes the position that the record was not good but they were breaking in a rookie QB which is always difficult. Look how much improvement Glennon has shown over the year, the future is bright, we just needed to get past these rookie QB tough times.
If he sticks with Freeman and they lose there is no way he can justify it and get another year, if he moves to the rookie he can at least make some excuses.
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steveski
Footballguy
As a Vjax owner, I'm hoping he looks to him first and if he's not open, he checks down to him anyways.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't get this either.
Lots of negative talk in this thread, but I think this will be an upgrade for Vincent. Glennon has a big arm, likes to throw the deep ball. That bodes well, doesn't it?
The Jerk
Footballguy
I'll let the others who are far more knowledgeable about Glennon talk about the measurables and positives/negatives.
I don't think it's all Freeman's fault. In fact, he is almost certainly getting too much of the blame.
But I'll say that if Glennon averages 190 passing yards per game, 7 rushing yards per game, 0.67 TDs per game, completes under 46% of his passes, and leads the Bucs to 11.3 ppg while compiling an 0-3 record, I think most of us will suggest he is not doing very well.
Of course, all of those statistics are what Freeman has done so far in 2013. I will not for a minute suggest that it cannot get worse. Without question, it can. However, the odds of Glennon being able to perform better than the above listed statistics are actually fairly high. I'd suggest at least 50/50.
I don't think it's all Freeman's fault. In fact, he is almost certainly getting too much of the blame.
But I'll say that if Glennon averages 190 passing yards per game, 7 rushing yards per game, 0.67 TDs per game, completes under 46% of his passes, and leads the Bucs to 11.3 ppg while compiling an 0-3 record, I think most of us will suggest he is not doing very well.
Of course, all of those statistics are what Freeman has done so far in 2013. I will not for a minute suggest that it cannot get worse. Without question, it can. However, the odds of Glennon being able to perform better than the above listed statistics are actually fairly high. I'd suggest at least 50/50.
shader
Footballguy
Bucs are best served running the ball and taking shots deep downfield. Glennon has the arm, so I wouldn't think Vjax numbers would go down unless Glennon just plays terrible.
At this point I wouldn't panic and trade anyone, and if an owner in your league panics, I might make a play FOR those guys.
At this point I wouldn't panic and trade anyone, and if an owner in your league panics, I might make a play FOR those guys.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
Shiano must really like attacking that kneel-down formation at the end of games. He's going to get to do it about 13 times this year.
Gargoylez
Footballguy
Freeman is the reason they are 0-3 and NOT 2-1. An average QB would of won them the Saints and Jets game. He is the worst rated QB in the league, the coaching staff has no faith in him and his team mates can't be all too pleased with his performance either.
I would rather see my Bucs go down swinging with a big gun then, waste 2-3 more weeks on this lame duck clip holder.
Too say it hasn't been Freemans fault means You have not watched any of the games and you do not look how close the games were and how truly unproductive he was. He is a lame duck right now...
Again WORST starting QB in the league.
43-97 571 2TD 3INT 47Long 59.3 Rating...
Offensive coordinator is not helping at all, but at this point in Freemans career he shouldn't be starting for any pro team right now, and I am including the CFL.
Edited to fix error - new keyboard GRRRRRR
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Glennon in the preseason for what it's worth.
11-23-169/Int
12-22-120-2TD-Int
3-9-44-TD
7-16-63-Int
His last 2 games he is 10 of 25 and overall 33 of 70(45%)...he is a rookie, he showed very little and he is stiff as a board, totaled -6 yds rush in the preseason. Bucs just might have sealed up a chance to lose 15 games this season if they roll with Glennon. My guess is Glennon will get leveled and knocked out inside of his first 2-3 game and then Schiano assuming he is even still the coach would either have to go with QB3 or back to Freeman which would be awkward. I think Freeman has to be traded now or the Glazers need to escort Schiano to the door and about half the coaching staff.
11-23-169/Int
12-22-120-2TD-Int
3-9-44-TD
7-16-63-Int
His last 2 games he is 10 of 25 and overall 33 of 70(45%)...he is a rookie, he showed very little and he is stiff as a board, totaled -6 yds rush in the preseason. Bucs just might have sealed up a chance to lose 15 games this season if they roll with Glennon. My guess is Glennon will get leveled and knocked out inside of his first 2-3 game and then Schiano assuming he is even still the coach would either have to go with QB3 or back to Freeman which would be awkward. I think Freeman has to be traded now or the Glazers need to escort Schiano to the door and about half the coaching staff.
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't think so. THey want this guy in there because of a vertical attack. I think this means VJAX returns to being a feast or famine guy, unfortunately. He will probably rock 30 on you one week and then have 7 the next week because it will all now come down to "one-trick pony" status. If he can burn a weak secondary one week, he will be great and if not (or if the Bucs can't protect), then he won't.
I am genuinely puzzled by this move at this point. I think the Bucs had the talent to really be a contender in the division and don't think at all that the coach is to that point with the organization where he must piull the "look! I got a rookie QB, give me one free year" card yet.
For VJAX, I think I recall that he lauded Freeman so much that he actually signed his contract for $55,555,555.55. He's a professional but I have to at least wonder if this sours him or tunes him out mentally a bit.
For Martin, who knows? Does he get the box stacked now as teams dare the QB to beat them? Does he get asked to stay in and block more so the vertical game can develop? Or does this actually open up space? We will see very soon but whatever we see is probably the trend for the year. Good luck Dougie owners.
They have no Te to speak of so I am guessing if there is a beneficiary here, it is purely to Glennon owners (for what that is worth) and Williams owners in ppr. Williams will likely see those intermediate passes (the check downs as someone mentioned above) and might pad some stats with more catches than we expected. Very curious move, overall, three weeks in.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
I agree, but I would add that the odds of Freeman performing better than those numbers are almost certainly better than 50/50. I hope that this move was motivated by a large leap in performance by Glennon in practice, because in preseason he looked far from ready.
