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Game of Thrones on HBO: non-book thread (2 Viewers)

If you are older and a warrior in this show couldn't it be assumed you are a pretty good with a sword/weapon since you are still alive?

 
Thunderlips said:
Christo said:
shadyridr said:
lol how is that a book discussion?
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When did we see Robert Baratheon fight? How do we know "Robert was an elite melee fighter in his prime, but that was with a war hammer"? How do we know how well Ned fought "in his prime"? When did we see Selmy fight? When did we see Thoros of Myr fight? How do we know Rhaegar Targaryen won some tournaments?
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Do we need to see Robert, Ned, Selmy or Thoros fight to choose them?....Technically couldn't we choose Sam Tarly if we wanted to?...... Not sure how choosing them is relevant to the books.
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We did see Ned fight. We also just recently saw a bit of Selmy and Thoros in action (even if it was against a bug and a little girl respectively). It's not all complete hearsay. :D

 
Mile High said:
If you are older and a warrior in this show couldn't it be assumed you are a pretty good with a sword/weapon since you are still alive?
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You can assume they all got together and had gay orgies in their youth. But is has nothing to do with the show.

 
Doubtingthomas said:
shadyridr said:
Doubtingthomas said:
shadyridr said:
lol how is that a book discussion?
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so who is shadyridr taking to defend himself in a trial by Kombat
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I gotta say its between the Mountain or the Kingslayer.
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once you get past his love of killing I'm not sure I get all the mountain love. kill the relative incompetent and then get beat by Loras isn't a stellar resume.
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Joust <> gladiator-style combat. The Mountain would have split Loras in two (in a very different way than Renly did) if the Hound hadn't stepped in to save his bacon.

 
Christo said:
Mile High said:
If you are older and a warrior in this show couldn't it be assumed you are a pretty good with a sword/weapon since you are still alive?
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You can assume they all got together and had gay orgies in their youth. But is has nothing to do with the show.
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Hehe. that's awesome. Who was your first kingslayer?Scrappy little whelp from dorne. All he wanted was some sword play but eventually I got him to roll over and let me do my thing.What was his name?You know I never got it. His mouth was also full at the time.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Doubtingthomas said:
shadyridr said:
Doubtingthomas said:
shadyridr said:
lol how is that a book discussion?
Click to expand...
so who is shadyridr taking to defend himself in a trial by Kombat
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I gotta say its between the Mountain or the Kingslayer.
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once you get past his love of killing I'm not sure I get all the mountain love. kill the relative incompetent and then get beat by Loras isn't a stellar resume.
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Joust <> gladiator-style combat. The Mountain would have split Loras in two (in a very different way than Renly did) if the Hound hadn't stepped in to save his bacon.
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yes but that involved a sneak attack
 
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Mile High said:
If you are older and a warrior in this show couldn't it be assumed you are a pretty good with a sword/weapon since you are still alive?
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most likely but some Lords apparently fight from the rear. Tywin led the charge if I remember correctly but I don't think there is any indication he is a bad ### on his own. I can't imagine the lord of high garden strikes fear in anyone with his sword.
 
Christo said:
shadyridr said:
lol how is that a book discussion?
Click to expand...
When did we see Robert Baratheon fight? How do we know "Robert was an elite melee fighter in his prime, but that was with a war hammer"? How do we know how well Ned fought "in his prime"? When did we see Selmy fight? When did we see Thoros of Myr fight? How do we know Rhaegar Targaryen won some tournaments?
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they talk about this stuff on the show all the time

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
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They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
CBusAlex said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Come on, Drogo was no ordinary Dothraki. When one of his chief lieutenants beefed that he was taking orders from Dany, Drogo dismissed him with such casual ease, it was preposterous. I don't think Mormont would have wanted to tangle with Drogo.
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Yeah, but the bards aren't exactly singing praises of Mormont's swordsmanship, either. Ordinary knight >>> ordinary DothrakiJaime Lannister >>> Kahl Drogo
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Oh, I agree, Jaime would almost surely take him out, but I would give Drogo a puncher's chance against almost anyone based on his speed, movement, strength, and intimidation. You'd also have to chop his head off to beat him, mere flesh wounds, even a pectoral basically slashed in two, have about as much effect on him as a mosquito bite.
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I picture Drogo approaching an armored up knight something like Achilles approaching the big champion at the start of Troy.
 
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either.

At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it.

Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.

The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.

Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.

Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.

Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.

Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either.

At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it.

Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.

The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.

Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.

Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.

Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.

Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.
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It's not about what you've seen...but what you've heard people say. Is Jamie saying that Barristan Selmy the best ever not good enough reason to think that Barristan Selmy MIGHT be the best ever?.......Or that people saying that Robert dusted the floor with Rhegar Targaryan?.....We didn't see how good The Halfhand was.....but was there any reason (based on what his opponents and friends said) to think that he wasn't better than Jon Snow?

 
I do remember Theon saying that Jamie cut through a bunch of guys(7?) before being taken down by Grey wind when he was captured.

 
Thunderlips said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either.

At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it.

Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.

The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.

Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.

Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.

Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.

Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.
Click to expand...
It's not about what you've seen...but what you've heard people say. Is Jamie saying that Barristan Selmy the best ever not good enough reason to think that Barristan Selmy MIGHT be the best ever?.......Or that people saying that Robert dusted the floor with Rhegar Targaryan?.....We didn't see how good The Halfhand was.....but was there any reason (based on what his opponents and friends said) to think that he wasn't better than Jon Snow?
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That's what I'm saying. If you're going by what has been said about the characters, then how are Robert or The Mountain even in the conversation. No one has had as much said about them as Jaime and I don't think it's even close. Maybe for Barristan but he's like 65 years old now anyway. How does "Robert dominated some king that may or may not have been a good fighter" compare to like 7 different major characters explicitly saying that Jaime is the best/most feared swordfighter?

Random conversations:

Character 1: Robert once dominated a king in a fight.

Character 2: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 3: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 4: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 5: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 6: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 7: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Character 8: Jaime is the best swordfighter.

Question: Who is the best swordfighter?

FBG: Well some guy once alluded to Robert being a pretty good fighter so based on what the characters have to say, probably him.

 
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If you're doing it on the opinions of those whom they've fought and their noteriaty.....

1) Jamie

2) The Mountain

3) Barristan Selmy

4) The Hound

5) Quiron Halfhand

Drogo's formidable....but we don't know if that's his leadership skills/horsmanship etc.

Robert bested Rheagar....but he's now old and fat.

IIRC, they talk about Ned's ability when he goes and rescues his sister. He's not top level.

 
I'd take that dude that is the bodyguard of the imp.

Failing that...give the the guy who taught Arta how to sword fight.

 
Thunderlips said:
Drogo's formidable....but we don't know if that's his leadership skills/horsmanship etc.
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Dude never had to cut his ponytail (which gave Mormont a hard on) and Viserys called him "one of the greatest killers alive" in episode 2 - that's all you need to know.

Here's the actual Viserys quote (from the show):

Do you see how long his hair is? When Dothraki are defeated in combat, they cut off their braids so the whole world can see their shame. Khal Drogo has never been defeated. He's a savage, of course, but one of the finest killers alive.
Click to expand...
 
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FreeBaGeL said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either.

At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it.

Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.

The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.

Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.

Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.

Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.

Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.

Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.
Click to expand...
Syrio took out several Lannister guards with a wooden sword.

 
parrot said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either. At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it. Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.
Click to expand...
Syrio took out several Lannister guards with a wooden sword.
Click to expand...
It could be a.fair criticism that there is some bias based on book reading. But there are a ton of subtle hints in the show to base opinions on and it should be obvious from watching the show that reputations aren't always correct. Also there is some pretty good visual impressions that can be had. From a despriction of his exploits to become king it is clear that Robert was either very lucky or very good.It's clear that Selmy even in old age is and was fantastic. Jaime gives him the "best move I ever saw" compliment. No kingsgaurd was in a hurry to face him even when he insulted them. And Mormount introduces him as the best warrior in Westeros. Ned clearly has no fear facing off with Jaime and tweaking him verbally. My impression of every scene between Ned and Jaime, Ned almost wanted Jaime to pull his sword. If nothing else he had faith in himself verus Jaime.I think there is plenty in the show not to say Jaime hands down.
 
Jaaqen may have been the best killer, but not in a sword fight. He was a sneaky assassin that killed without his victims even knowing it was coming.

 
Doubtingthomas said:
parrot said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Haven't they said a few times on the show that Jamie is the best swordfighter?
Click to expand...
They have, but to be fair, to the non-book reader, Jaime just doesn't loom as that much of a bad-### at this point. We've seen him fight twice on the show, and granted - once, he was interrupted by a #### move by one of his guard and the second time, he was malnourished, out of shape, and handcuffed. However, he's basically fought an older man and a woman, each to a draw. The TV watcher with no outside knowledge might think any talk of Jaime as "the most feared sword in the Seven Kingdoms" was a lot of hype without a ton of substance.
Click to expand...
I'm a non-book reader and from that perspective I don't really see how people are bringing up all these others. I feel like people are using book knowledge with the others because, from a show perspective, I can't see why Robert Baratheon or The Mountain would even be in the running. Sure, a few people have hinted that they were good in round about ways, but isn't that easily trumped by exact verbage of multiple people saying Jaime is the best? The Mountain didn't have the upper hand in his only on-screen fight either. At this point, the only people that have really looked the part on screen are Brienne, Bronn and Jon Snow. It seems like if you're going by what the characters think then it has to be Jaime. If you're going strictly by how they've looked on screen then it has to be Brienne, Bronn, or Jon Snow (has anyone else even won a fight onscreen?). If you're going by a combination of the two then it has to be Jaime or Brienne. I don't see how the others even figure into it. Jaime - Characters say he's the best. Fought Ned to draw. Lost to Brienne while fatigued and handicapped.The Hound - Fought The Mountain and Bronn to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.The Mountain - Fought The Hound to a draw. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.Ned - Fought Jaime to a draw. Subtle hints that he's a good swordsman.Robert - No onscreen fights. Subtle hints that he used to be a good fighter.Jon Snow - Fought well in the Watchmen training. No overwhelming notoriety from other characters.Brienne - Won Renly's tournament. Easily beat a fatigued/handicapped Jaime. Hints that she's underrated from other characters.Bronn - Fought the Hound to a draw. Beat a knight to free Tyrion.Loras - Had to be saved by The Hound after the joust. Lost to Brienne in Renly's tournament.
Click to expand...
Syrio took out several Lannister guards with a wooden sword.
Click to expand...
It could be a.fair criticism that there is some bias based on book reading. But there are a ton of subtle hints in the show to base opinions on and it should be obvious from watching the show that reputations aren't always correct. Also there is some pretty good visual impressions that can be had.From a despriction of his exploits to become king it is clear that Robert was either very lucky or very good.It's clear that Selmy even in old age is and was fantastic. Jaime gives him the "best move I ever saw" compliment. No kingsgaurd was in a hurry to face him even when he insulted them. And Mormount introduces him as the best warrior in Westeros.Ned clearly has no fear facing off with Jaime and tweaking him verbally. My impression of every scene between Ned and Jaime, Ned almost wanted Jaime to pull his sword. If nothing else he had faith in himself verus Jaime.I think there is plenty in the show not to say Jaime hands down.
Click to expand...
Ned and Jory put down four or five Lannister guards as well, before he and Jaime ever squared off. Then again, Jaime seemed totally unconcerned with Jory before putting a dagger through his eye, in pretty bad-### fashion. Maybe the Lannister's just have crappy guardsmen. :shrug:

 
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yes Lannoer Guardsman are the stormtroopers of the universe. good for terrorizing citizens and competent enough for regular battle completely incompetent versus later characters.

 
Doubtingthomas said:
yes Lannoer Guardsman are the stormtroopers of the universe. good for terrorizing citizens and competent enough for regular battle completely incompetent versus later characters.
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Lol - beat me to it. Total stormtroopers. Only way they could be worse is if you gave them a laser blaster and they ran around yelling "COBRA!".
 
EYLive said:
Can I pick a giant in my 1 vs 1 battle?
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Sure, his name is the Mountain. Hound is also acceptable.Look he got knocked off his horse. I get it. But if we are talking a pure mid evil style sword fight (settle down loris) then I'm going with the guy who seems like he is twice the size of everyone else save his brother.
 
NIU Kicker said:
EYLive said:
Can I pick a giant in my 1 vs 1 battle?
Click to expand...
Sure, his name is the Mountain. Hound is also acceptable.Look he got knocked off his horse. I get it. But if we are talking a pure mid evil style sword fight (settle down loris) then I'm going with the guy who seems like he is twice the size of everyone else save his brother.
Click to expand...
Is that like when you are pretty consistently a bad person but not quite to the level of purely bad?

 
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