Game of Thrones on HBO: non-book thread (1 Viewer)

[Evilgrin 72]

yes, i only watch them once and all that renaissance faire music sounds exactly alike to me.did i know something was going down... you betchabut i was not like omg they are playing the lannister song...

"Wait a minute !!! That's Tywin Lannister's music !!!" [/WWE]

 

[Brady Marino]

Good. Freaking. God. (just watched the Red Wedding)

Brutality in every way. I agree with whoever said earlier that Robb's wife took the worst of that, getting stabbed where Eddard 2.0 was being created.

Regarding the Frey girl that Edmure married, I have to think back to Season 1 when Cat told Robb that one of them "might be suitable" or something to that effect. Did Walder hold back the girl that Edmure married or did Cat do that girl a terrible disservice? Hard to not want the Valerian girl after being basically being told by your own mother that the best Frey has to offer may be average at best, when the gal Edmure married certainly is better than average (for her age. alert).

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Good. Freaking. God. (just watched the Red Wedding)

Brutality in every way. I agree with whoever said earlier that Robb's wife took the worst of that, getting stabbed where Eddard 2.0 was being created.

Regarding the Frey girl that Edmure married, I have to think back to Season 1 when Cat told Robb that one of them "might be suitable" or something to that effect. Did Walder hold back the girl that Edmure married or did Cat do that girl a terrible disservice? Hard to not want the Valerian girl after being basically being told by your own mother that the best Frey has to offer may be average at best, when the gal Edmure married certainly is better than average (for her age. alert).

I got the impression that he held her back. Was she the last one he introduced at the beginning of the episode, just cleaned up, or was she not in that scene at all?

 

[Clifford]

Robb was the worst GGRP ever, but I think it was his mom that ####ed everything all up.

I think Rob made it pretty clear last night that this is incorrect.

Capturing Tyrion and marching him up the hill wasn't the smartest idea ever. Turning Jamie loose was doubly stupid. Both these directly led to the events last night more than Robb getting some Valeryian ### imo.

But Frey was the key to last night not the Lannisters.

Disagree completely.

Frey was pissed, but no way was that old buzzard the key piece to this event.

What other reason would he have to side with the Lannisters?

that is frey's motivation, but he doesn't have the power to pull that off, which is why I said he wasn't the key to last night. I believe all this still stems from joff offing ned and cat nabbing tyrion. others seem to be pieces in the aftermath.

He had the army Robb needed but didn't have the power?

It was a Lannister plot. Frey is notorious for waiting around to see who might win a battle before deciding which side to join. Very well communicated in the books, referred to as "the Late Lord Frey" for showing up at battles when they had already been won, to share in the spoils. Universally referred to in the books as a devious, heartless opportunists, and a spiteful old *******.

But the Red Wedding was Tywin's master stroke. It was deftly referred to in season 2 and earlier in season 3, don't know which episodes, but as some point he refers to a deal he is making that could turn the war. Red Wedding. TV show did a good job of spelling out who was involved. Including Roose, who you knew was a traitor to the Stark cause when he sent Jamie back to Kings Landing.

 

[Christo]

Good. Freaking. God. (just watched the Red Wedding) Brutality in every way. I agree with whoever said earlier that Robb's wife took the worst of that, getting stabbed where Eddard 2.0 was being created. Regarding the Frey girl that Edmure married, I have to think back to Season 1 when Cat told Robb that one of them "might be suitable" or something to that effect. Did Walder hold back the girl that Edmure married or did Cat do that girl a terrible disservice? Hard to not want the Valerian girl after being basically being told by your own mother that the best Frey has to offer may be average at best, when the gal Edmure married certainly is better than average (for her age. alert).

I got the impression that he held her back. Was she the last one he introduced at the beginning of the episode, just cleaned up, or was she not in that scene at all?

I thought she was the last one--who hadn't started to bleed yet.

 

[Clifford]

Picking up on the song really isn't a book vs. non book thing, it is a perception/music thing. While the books have the lyrics and state when the song is being sung or played it is not like you know what that sounds like. Sure, I knew the meaning of the song before the show started, but it wasn't really until late last season (because of a podcast) that I started hearing and thinking about the music in the show. The non book reader of the podcast is very focused on music in film and TV so he brought up the musical cues and hints that were going on ie - Rains of Castemere and Melisandre's theme. Just like me, the other person on the podcast, who had read all the books, hadn't picked up on those. It's one of those things that you start to notice once it is pointed out to you, but I completely understand people not picking up on it naturally.

I really do not care whether a book or non-book reader pick up on it- those within the world should have.

This was my thought. If the characters themselves don't understand the relevance of the song playing at the wedding, why should the audience?

They do. Cat certainly does. Everyone on the Frey side that is using it as their cue to attack understands the relevance.

On the show they stopped the music and Walder had a little speech, but in the book it goes from music to attack pretty seamlessly as dude in the mail bolts for the door and Cat catches him, gets thrown down, Rob steps and then arrows fly.

I think the question was why didn't Stark's men immediately react... well, a lot of the main warrior dudes (Greatjohn in the book) were taking part in the wedding ceremony and were undressing the bride and carrying her to the room. Where they surely meet an ambush of some kind.

Also customary to remove arms before a wedding feast, so many were unarmed when they attacked.

 

[Christo]

Robb was the worst GGRP ever, but I think it was his mom that ####ed everything all up.

I think Rob made it pretty clear last night that this is incorrect.

Capturing Tyrion and marching him up the hill wasn't the smartest idea ever. Turning Jamie loose was doubly stupid. Both these directly led to the events last night more than Robb getting some Valeryian ### imo.

But Frey was the key to last night not the Lannisters.

Disagree completely.

Frey was pissed, but no way was that old buzzard the key piece to this event.

What other reason would he have to side with the Lannisters?

that is frey's motivation, but he doesn't have the power to pull that off, which is why I said he wasn't the key to last night. I believe all this still stems from joff offing ned and cat nabbing tyrion. others seem to be pieces in the aftermath.

He had the army Robb needed but didn't have the power?

It was a Lannister plot. Frey is notorious for waiting around to see who might win a battle before deciding which side to join. Very well communicated in the books, referred to as "the Late Lord Frey" for showing up at battles when they had already been won, to share in the spoils. Universally referred to in the books as a devious, heartless opportunists, and a spiteful old *******.

QUIT ####### DOING THIS

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Christo, all of that is in the show as well. Every single bit.

 

[Polish Hammer]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

 

[Abrantes]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

Inferiority complex makes some resentful of those who come in with knowledge they don't possess, even if said knowledge is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[UniAlias]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

I don't know about others, but I like to read the books after each series. There's an active thread that pertains to both the books and the show. For some reason people can't help but post about book stuff in here though. I've pretty much just accepted it at this point.

 

[UniAlias]

Oh, well yeah inferiority complex too.

 

[Christo]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

Inferiority complex makes some resentful of those who come in with knowledge they don't possess, even if said knowledge is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[culdeus]

I post most actively here and very sporadically at a couple of other boards like this which have two threads for book and non-book. This is the only board which has book readers posting in the non-book thread and it is an absolute trainwreck.

Put me in the camp that I wish the book readers not only wouldn't post here, but wouldn't even read this thread just to avoid the temptation which is seemingly too strong.

My ignore list basically grows by one every time someone admits they are a book reader. It is helping somewhat.

 

[Clifford]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

My thoughts as well. Everything I posted was not only in the past but on the show. So WTF is the problem? That I provided a little BG material on Frey the series will never even show?

 

[Otis]

I post most actively here and very sporadically at a couple of other boards like this which have two threads for book and non-book. This is the only board which has book readers posting in the non-book thread and it is an absolute trainwreck.

Put me in the camp that I wish the book readers not only wouldn't post here, but wouldn't even read this thread just to avoid the temptation which is seemingly too strong.

My ignore list basically grows by one every time someone admits they are a book reader. It is helping somewhat.

Freakin' book readers.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

I don't know about others, but I like to read the books after each series. There's an active thread that pertains to both the books and the show. For some reason people can't help but post about book stuff in here though. I've pretty much just accepted it at this point.

I keep quiet for you, gb.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I post most actively here and very sporadically at a couple of other boards like this which have two threads for book and non-book. This is the only board which has book readers posting in the non-book thread and it is an absolute trainwreck.

Put me in the camp that I wish the book readers not only wouldn't post here, but wouldn't even read this thread just to avoid the temptation which is seemingly too strong.

My ignore list basically grows by one every time someone admits they are a book reader. It is helping somewhat.

Whoa.

 

[belljr]

yes, i only watch them once and all that renaissance faire music sounds exactly alike to me.did i know something was going down... you betchabut i was not like omg they are playing the lannister song...

"Wait a minute !!! That's Tywin Lannister's music !!!" [/WWE]

l

 

[Hodor]

I enjoy reading/lurking this thread simply for the reactions, analyzing and theories of non book readers. People explaining things are ruining my entertainment!!!

hodor

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Oh, well yeah inferiority complex too.

Same here. I wish my mama had learnt me how to do the fancy book readin.

 

[CBusAlex]

Oh, well yeah inferiority complex too.

Same here. I wish my mama had learnt me how to do the fancy book readin.

What are you, some kind of wizard?

 

[The Gator]

Oh, well yeah inferiority complex too.

Same here. I wish my mama had learnt me how to do the fancy book readin.

What are you, some kind of wizard?

 

[Thunderlips]

Good. Freaking. God. (just watched the Red Wedding)

Brutality in every way. I agree with whoever said earlier that Robb's wife took the worst of that, getting stabbed where Eddard 2.0 was being created.

Regarding the Frey girl that Edmure married, I have to think back to Season 1 when Cat told Robb that one of them "might be suitable" or something to that effect. Did Walder hold back the girl that Edmure married or did Cat do that girl a terrible disservice? Hard to not want the Valerian girl after being basically being told by your own mother that the best Frey has to offer may be average at best, when the gal Edmure married certainly is better than average (for her age. alert).

I got the impression that he held her back. Was she the last one he introduced at the beginning of the episode, just cleaned up, or was she not in that scene at all?

She wasn't in the beginning. I imagine he was told by the two Freys that Edmure was uncomfortable about the whole thing. and just wanted to be a ####.NOTE: THAT'S MY SPECULATION. IT WASN"T IN THE BOOKS!!!!!!!!!.......Kind of a bold move considering that technically Edmure is his Lord. THAT WASN"T IN THE BOOK EITHER...IT WAS IN THE SHOW!

 

[shuke]

Oh, well yeah inferiority complex too.

 

[shuke]

I post most actively here and very sporadically at a couple of other boards like this which have two threads for book and non-book. This is the only board which has book readers posting in the non-book thread and it is an absolute trainwreck.

Put me in the camp that I wish the book readers not only wouldn't post here, but wouldn't even read this thread just to avoid the temptation which is seemingly too strong.

My ignore list basically grows by one every time someone admits they are a book reader. It is helping somewhat.

 

[modogg]

Should have known something was up when Bolton (I think it was Bolton) turned down the wine.

i thought that was strange too, but he didn't drink with Jamie Lanister either.

and one thing i'm sure they'll clue us in on for the finale is who the guys f'n with Theon are

 

[Abrantes]

I post most actively here and very sporadically at a couple of other boards like this which have two threads for book and non-book. This is the only board which has book readers posting in the non-book thread and it is an absolute trainwreck.

Put me in the camp that I wish the book readers not only wouldn't post here, but wouldn't even read this thread just to avoid the temptation which is seemingly too strong.

My ignore list basically grows by one every time someone admits they are a book reader. It is helping somewhat.

Well...bye.

 

[Christo]

[No message]

 

[Abrantes]

he North got the Young Wolf, what they needed was a straight up gangster.

I don't think Chael Sonnen would've fared much better in the war.

 

[culdeus]

wow

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Except if edmure doesn't force Tywin the opposite direction (against Robb's wishes) Tywin is trapped and doesn't get to kings landing in time to turn the tide on that battle. Joffrey is dead. Tywin screwed and everybody is alive.

 

[shadyridr]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

last i checked this is a tv show. If i wanted to read the books i would and id be posting in the other ####in thread. Why is this so difficult? Cliffords post is completely out of line

 

[Thunderlips]

Robb Stark may be the biggest #### up of all time. Every decision he made was impulsive, selfish and ultimately led to the death of his kin and bannermen, as well as the Stark war effort.You have to think the Starks have taken the last of their beatings. At least the remaining members aren't morons.

I think what happened with Robb Stark was more of a commentary on the parenting in the Westeros universe and gives different shades to both Eddard Stark and Tywin Lannister.

Ned Stark shielded his children from much of the horror of the outside world and the threat of violence and the lingering problems from the last war. In that way, he loved his children and tried to do the honorable thing and protect them. In another way, he left them ill prepared for the world they were going to face.

Tywin Lannister is brutal to his children. But you can see his father was more kind hearted, less ruthless, and even Tywin admitted a man who loved his children, but he was weak, and Tywin was a product of having to pull himself up by his boots to overcome the limitations that his father presented him.

Ned loved his children and they are either dead or on the run or hostages. Tywin is cruel to his children, but in this world, they are still alive.

Tactically speaking, Robb Stark had absolutely no chance to win a stand up fight against the Lannisters. Not even with the Karstarks, not even with the Boltons and the Freys. Which is something I think Frey and Bolton and loosely Greyjoy all knew. Stark had fewer men to start and was waging an offensive front. Basic combat doctrine is to assault a defensive position, you need a three to one advantage in man power. This is basic war doctrine ht has held through the test of time. Robb's best chance to win was to slaughter as many Lannisters and engage them on one front, while one of the Baretheons took Kings Landing, with a much larger and superior force.

Robb had no control over the conflict of Renly and Stannis, which indirectly gave the Lannisters the whole of the Tyrell army and resources. If Renly had given fealty to Stannis, the Tyrells, by marriage to Renly would have stayed in the fold, and Robb would have ended the war as the King Of The North.

Had Ned been consolidating power and forming family alliances in the North long before this war, then Robb would have been left in a better position. A Stark should have already been married to a Frey and a Karstark if they formed two of the largest armies of the North. Ned's other mistake was to accept Hand Of The King without a price. His long standing friendship and relationship with Robert could have demanded that Sansa and Joffrey be IMMEDIATELY married before he would accept Hand Of The King. This would have dramatically changed the dynamic of the Lannister/Stark conflict. He could have also asked Robert to leave a Lannister in the North, essentially a hostage, in exchange for bringing his two daughters to Kings Landing. Yes Kat Tully/Stark was an idiot, but she was a woman, not expected to be a war strategist and tactician. Robb was young and inexperienced, without a wise loyal hand to guide him. Ned could have left his family in a much better position to start. It was his responsibility. But as Cersei said, he didn't want to play the game.

Once Stannis had failed and Renly was dead and the Tyrells were aligned with the Lannisters, Robb Stark only had ONE viable move left, he simply did not understand it. Northerners understand the long cold winter. They can operate and survive in those conditions. For other people in Westeros, it is much harder as their weather is more temperate. The Northerners were clearly more prepared for any kind of upcoming winter and clearly Winter Was Coming. With their numerical limitations, the Northerners stood a better chance fighting a war on the defensive.

Robb Stark, realizing that the Lannisters and much of the rest of Westeros was not prepared for the coming long Winter, should have dispatched Theon Greyjoy, where his expendability and ruthlessness would be best served, to lead guerrilla warfare tactics to the south. Small unit action designed not to engage military targets, but to steal all the food and burn all the crops they could. Clearly even Kings Landing was already starving based on the attack on Joffrey's convoy. By killing off the food supply, the rest of Westeros would starve. The Lannisters would have to invade the North simply for food and resources. Where they would be bogged down in winter fighting that they were ill suited. Napoleon was eradicated by a winter. The Germans in WW2 were eradicated by a winter. Starving cold Lannister men trying to climb Northern walls while being attacked by archers and direwolves ( which Robb would have immediately started to breed en masse)

In terms of Jamie Lannister, the best move would have been to have found three Lannister prisoners or minor relatives, then had all of the Stark bannerman take daggers and stab Jamie to death. Then all sign a document saying they demanded Tywins surrender or face total and complete destruction. Roose Bolton would have no choice. Stab Jamie or have it be clear that he was no aligned with the North. But participating in Jamies death meant there would be no treaty or bargain with Tywin. Send the prisoners or relatives to Kings Landing with Jamies head covered in pig feces and then Tywin would have no choice but to fight. With Jamie dead, Karstark would be avenged, more than avenged, and his men would still be in the fold. Would Tywin kill Sansa or Arya in return? Maybe, but then he would lose them as political leverage to gain the North. It would be a tactical risk. But killing the two Stark girls would only galvanize the Northern people together.

The mistake Robb made with Frey was to let his mother negotiate. This is part of why Frey treated him like a boy and not a man. Robb should have bargained a Frey girl to be queen for ALL of Freys men right then and there. And in exchange, the wedding would be immediate, right then and there. No chance for Robb to marry anyone else, or the common girl would have just been a concubine, which was acceptable in their world. By marrying a Frey, Walder Frey would have no choice but to join the North and not at the end. And Robb should have immediately married off Bran and Rickon to a Karstark and to a Bolton girl.

There is no way, even with more men, that Robb could have maintained a supply line strong enough to wage a war all the way to Kings Landing. By taking a defensive posture in the North, his bannermen would have no choice but to fight if the Lannisters attacked. Their people would be raped , looted and slaughtered along with Winterfell.

The Maester should not have been left behind, he should have been Robbs main advisor, he was loyal to the Starks, had an understanding of history, and was reasonable. A good Maester would have found a true role for Brienne of Tar as a Kings Guard. And would have never let the Direwolf away from Robbs side.

Finally, Robb should have immediately married his mother off, she was still a viable asset in that way. He should have married her off to Little Finger, despite the betrayal, then had him as an ally to maneuver politically for the Starks. When the war ended, Robb could have simply killed Little Finger.

I think the show likes to make people believe Robb was a good tactician. He was not. He could have, if he wanted to , sent envoys to Stannis asking for a partnership and alliance, with Stannis as King ( Robb didn't want to King of Westeros anyway). He could have had Jon Snow sent to negotiate with Mance Rayder, offering terms of a truce with the North, political recognition but only lands vested in the south, if he would lend his army. Then sent an envoy to Dany Targareyan, offering her safe harbor in the North, and protection, despite the price on her head, and asked for an alliance in exchange for any of her military forces. The price would be her marriage to Stannis, but she would be the Queen of Westeros.

Robb should have had every paid mercenary and assassin would take the money to open a bounty on any Lannister. As well as a bounty on any major Tyrell hostage. The Tyrells support of the Lannisters would mute some if a major Tyrell was a Northern hostage.

The North got the Young Wolf, what they needed was a straight up gangster.

Maester's serve the Castle or the Keep...not the Lord. THAT WAS IN THE SHOW!

Robb was a good tactician. He, like his father was poor at politics. THAT WAS IN THE SHOW!

He sent and envoy to Renly and Stannis looking for peace between the two. THAT WAS IN THE SHOW!

The Lannisters were richer than the Starks. They'd pay more. THAT WAS IN THE SHOW!

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

 

[bagger]

Can someone set up a non book, non spoiler through preview which is shown at end of show, non soundtrack thread?

TIA

 

[bonesman]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

Tremendously good posting

 

[Gr00vus]

...

Disappointing. I was hoping for an update on your estimate for when HBO pulls the plug on this thing.

 

[gump]

Except if edmure doesn't force Tywin the opposite direction (against Robb's wishes) Tywin is trapped and doesn't get to kings landing in time to turn the tide on that battle. Joffrey is dead. Tywin screwed and everybody is alive.

I was trying to remember what Edmure's screw up was and how it affected the Red Wedding...I thought it was all about Robb wanting to capture The Mountain?

 

[Chadstroma]

Except if edmure doesn't force Tywin the opposite direction (against Robb's wishes) Tywin is trapped and doesn't get to kings landing in time to turn the tide on that battle. Joffrey is dead. Tywin screwed and everybody is alive.

I was trying to remember what Edmure's screw up was and how it affected the Red Wedding...I thought it was all about Robb wanting to capture The Mountain?

It was.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

Can you point out one example in this 2,350 post thread of someone complaining about a TV only viewer providing too much background info? It may not be binary, but it's pretty damned close.

I personally don't mind the extra background info sometimes provided (the book readers annoy me for other reasons), but I can see how some others would and the solution seems pretty simple. If you're a book reader, just DON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS (unless someone specifically asks "in the book...", at which point put it in spoilers if you want to answer). When people ask questions they're asking for speculation or missed info from other TV viewers, not answers. This line gets cloudy for book readers. You're not speculating if you already know what happens and if something in the show is so subtle that none of us have picked up on it yet without knowledge of what will eventually happen, then maybe we weren't supposed to figure it out yet.

 

[Rick James]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

last i checked this is a tv show. If i wanted to read the books i would and id be posting in the other ####in thread. Why is this so difficult? Cliffords post is completely out of line

 

[mad sweeney]

So what is the problem with sharing info from the books that is totally 100% in the past and only serves to add depth to knowledge that show-watchers already have? If it is absolutely spoiling nothing why is that a problem? Do some people just prefer ignorance and stories not fully told?

last i checked this is a tv show. If i wanted to read the books i would and id be posting in the other ####in thread. Why is this so difficult? Cliffords post is completely out of line

It's so pathetic, it's got to be shtick.

 

[mad sweeney]

Lots of sand finding it's way into nether regions in here. Never seen so many willfully ignorant crybabies whining about non-spoilers. Glad the momentum got up and running again!

 

[renesauz]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

I've scrupulously avoided posting in this thread 99% of the time, but this is spot on. Many times I've been tempted to explain something in more detail, but non book readers are NOT on the same page as far as what kinds of info they actually want..

 

[jwb]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

Can you point out one example in this 2,350 post thread of someone complaining about a TV only viewer providing too much background info? It may not be binary, but it's pretty damned close.

I personally don't mind the extra background info sometimes provided (the book readers annoy me for other reasons), but I can see how some others would and the solution seems pretty simple. If you're a book reader, just DON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS (unless someone specifically asks "in the book...", at which point put it in spoilers if you want to answer). When people ask questions they're asking for speculation or missed info from other TV viewers, not answers. This line gets cloudy for book readers. You're not speculating if you already know what happens and if something in the show is so subtle that none of us have picked up on it yet without knowledge of what will eventually happen, then maybe we weren't supposed to figure it out yet.

In fact, this is usually what happens in a TV show thread (see the Mad Men or Dexter threads, for example)

 

[renesauz]

I think the issue is that it's really not a binary thing. It's not purely people who have read the book versus people who haven't. GOT is one of the most informationally immersive TV show in history, and there are a ton of resources beyond the show (the HBO site, podcasts, recaps, etc) that enrich the viewing experience, many of which are adamantly book-free. SO you can have two viewers, neither of whom have read the books, who have vastly different experiences depending on the degree to which they go beyond the show.

I do still think you can discuss just the show even if you have read the books, erring on the side of caution when commenting on something or answering a question, but I also understand some of the frustration of TV only viewers.

That said, the question of who is torturing Theon is a great example of the issue at hand. It has been answered 100% on the show with zero book knowledge, but would require moderate attention to details and remembering things from past episodes. If you read recaps or listened to podcasts it helps make some of these connections.

So it's not as simple as purely saying Book readers Out!

Can you point out one example in this 2,350 post thread of someone complaining about a TV only viewer providing too much background info? It may not be binary, but it's pretty damned close.

I personally don't mind the extra background info sometimes provided (the book readers annoy me for other reasons), but I can see how some others would and the solution seems pretty simple. If you're a book reader, just DON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS (unless someone specifically asks "in the book...", at which point put it in spoilers if you want to answer). When people ask questions they're asking for speculation or missed info from other TV viewers, not answers. This line gets cloudy for book readers. You're not speculating if you already know what happens and if something in the show is so subtle that none of us have picked up on it yet without knowledge of what will eventually happen, then maybe we weren't supposed to figure it out yet.

In fact, this is usually what happens in a TV show thread (see the Mad Men or Dexter threads, for example)

This may be true, but it's also a completely unfair comparison. This show is unprecedented in it's breadth and scope, just like the books are. MANY non-book readers are going to other sources to get more information. As is noted in the book thread, there are no throwaway scenes...no wasted movements, lines or interactions...ZERO FILLER. Non-book readers are constantly complaining in here about info that is far from subtle in the show, thinking that they are being "spoiled" when the reality is that simply because there is so much going on in the darn thing that nobody could reasonably pick it all up. The info about the Frey's is a prime example...the Frey's have been adequately and accurately portrayed in the series, but some non readers missed it while others got it. The a book reader clarifies and everyone goes nuts....over non spoiler info that SOME non readers got.

GET OVER IT. Book readers have been far FAR more restrained than you realize, and have gone out of their way to avoid spoiling anything for you guys.

 

[dparker713]

Robb Stark may be the biggest #### up of all time. Every decision he made was impulsive, selfish and ultimately led to the death of his kin and bannermen, as well as the Stark war effort.You have to think the Starks have taken the last of their beatings. At least the remaining members aren't morons.

Please, retire the account or hand it to someone else. K, thx. Bye.

 

[Premier]

I don't care either way because I usually just ask my fiancée about what's going on with the show/books, but I don't understand why book readers post in this thread at all when there is a perfectly good one for them. It's baffling.