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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (4 Viewers)

CletiusMaximus said:
They said the same about Lady Mormont (Bella Ramsey).  She was originally only going to do the one scene, when she pledged troops to the Starks in season 7.  She was such a hit as a character, she ended up getting much more work out of it and was given a massive death scene.
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So... confirming the "fan service" thing some people in here don't wanna hear about?

 
Not that it matters for most, but Euron didn't have armor and a sword. He had a dagger and Jamie impaled him through the chest...meaning no armor.

So, the swim to the shore where no soldiers were and no battle taking place wasn't so ridiculous.

 
Sandor and Arya.

Man looking back at season 1 no one at all had any clue the massive power, drama, story and ripple effect that relationship would have.

 
krista4 said:
My post wasn't clear.  I mean logical in terms of how I saw them setting up the character, not logical in terms of what a normal, non-mad person would do.  But I realize I might be looking at the character development differently than you do.

Speaking of which, while I found the Dany direction what I expected, I didn't really understand Jamie's character, as it turned out.  Last week I asked you guys if it was clear why he was going back to KL, and most said for vengeance against Cersei.  I tended to agree with that, but obviously we were wrong.  A few people here have explained his arc (or lack thereof) in response to the latest episode, and I guess it's the best explanation, but I still don't really get it or buy into it.  Maybe, like the big Dany fans, I just wanted Jamie to have changed to the good side.
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He didn't change to the good side. He was never good.  What made him so intriguing to us and to brienne was that there was an unexpected depth to him.  We didn't see him change, we discovered more about him, when he got humbled by the loss of his hand and lost even more when his brother killed his father. 

Ultimately he was a deeply flawed but... let's say "pragmatically honorable" man, who ultimately chose cersei over everything else, then tyrion, then honor, and all of that over his own power or wealth. 

 
Might be reading too much into it, but when Sandor knocks off Mountains helmet and says, yeah that's you, that's who you have always been...

2 arc theories...

1...unmasking a monster to realize who he/she has always been is kinda the epicenter of this episode, and

2....it was a callback to Arya saying that's not me, her telling Nymeria that's not you, and her saying thank you to Sandor instead of living a life of revenge...

People here are who they always are.

 
Hound's "look at me" when he's trying to get Arya to leave was the same thing he said to Sansa during the Battle of Blackwater.   

 
When Cersei is in the map room by herself there is a massive crack running from north to south of Westeros. Way too obvious to just be a crack for effect.

Westeros has been shattered.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
They said the same about Lady Mormont (Bella Ramsey).  She was originally only going to do the one scene, when she pledged troops to the Starks in season 7.  She was such a hit as a character, she ended up getting much more work out of it and was given a massive death scene.
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They got that one right

 
Mario Kart said:
You guys talk about how Varys was trying to poison Dany? Blew my mind when I figured that out.
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Missed the conversation and him trying to poison her. When did that happen? 

And who was he writing a note to about Jon being the true heir? All the important people left know who Jon is now, except Cersei. The Citadel? 

 
zoonation said:
I’m with you right up until the point she kills thousands of innocent people when she didn’t have to.  I dont think there is anything “logical” in that conclusion or outcome.   It is pure evil.  
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:lmao: She’s been fighting the urge to turn into her father all this time. Yes it was pure evil and not even remotely shocking. 

I cant even understand how anyone can’t see this. 

 
tommyboy said:
You're not supposed to like him. But like negan, he makes a screen impact
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I don’t mean liked as is in they rooted for him. I meant liked as in they thought it was an entertaining and interesting villain. For example Joffrey was deeply hated but hated because he was such a great character. Euron is hated because he’s so boring and bland. 

 
Also Euron does not make a screen impact imo. He’s about as generic and boring of a character as there is on any TV show. 

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Wha...? That's exactly what happened. It's not ambiguous at all, several tens of thousands of pounds of stone crushed her. The camera was right on them, we saw the stone descend. Am I high reading this? Were you high watching it?
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It’s amazing.

We had to explain the the escape plan the Imp had for Jaime and his whore sister Ike 3 times last night. I could understand if it was set up 3 episodes ago but it literally occurred during this episode. 

:lmao:  

 
-fish- said:
Arya taking off Jon's face after she kills Dany would be a good way to end it.
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No, because how did Jon die?  Arya wouldn't kill him.  If dany killed him, it wouldn't work.  Maybe they could pull this off with grey worm, because that's about the only person left that she trusts.  

Maybe drogon would pick jon over... oh. His mother.  Not likely.  

Maybe bran finally gets involved and wargs into drogon. That would make some sense, but it's a let down.  Especially after all the stuff he allowed to happen.  

Jon could kill her but that's a tough sell in 2019.

Yet i firmly believe these guys have set everything up to reach a specific, but unpredictable, ending.  I don't think it will necessarily be the ending everyone wanted, but it will be the ending they wanted.  

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
:lmao: She’s been fighting the urge to turn into her father all this time. Yes it was pure evil and not even remotely shocking. 

I cant even understand how anyone can’t see this. 
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Yeah I don’t get how people are mad she turned heel or even surprised. It’s been telegraphed. My only qualm is the execution of it. 

 
bostonfred said:
No, because how did Jon die?  Arya wouldn't kill him.  If dany killed him, it wouldn't work.  Maybe they could pull this off with grey worm, because that's about the only person left that she trusts.  

Maybe drogon would pick jon over... oh. His mother.  Not likely.  

Maybe bran finally gets involved and wargs into drogon. That would make some sense, but it's a let down.  Especially after all the stuff he allowed to happen.  

Jon could kill her but that's a tough sell in 2019.

Yet i firmly believe these guys have set everything up to reach a specific, but unpredictable, ending.  I don't think it will necessarily be the ending everyone wanted, but it will be the ending they wanted.  
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I would be surprised if Arya killed the NK and Dany. That leaves Jon, Tyrion becoming the Queenslayer, or Bran warging as the dragon and eating her? Could she kill herself after seeing what she had done? Any chance she just lives and wins? 

 
Ilov80s said:
Yeah I don’t get how people are mad she turned heel or even surprised. It’s been telegraphed. My only qualm is the execution of it. 
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That’s fair but these people who say it’s out of character completely forgot what the Targaryens are known for. Literally a dozen times or more during the show people state aloud that they worry about her being just like her father. 

 
bostonfred said:
No, because how did Jon die?  Arya wouldn't kill him.  If dany killed him, it wouldn't work.  Maybe they could pull this off with grey worm, because that's about the only person left that she trusts.  

Maybe drogon would pick jon over... oh. His mother.  Not likely.  
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Actually this one makes some sense. Jon is the only other that the dragon let's ride. It's possible that Dany says dracaris to execute Jon and then drogon chooses to burn her up instead. Then everyone knows who the rightful King is.

 
tommyboy said:
Actually this one makes some sense. Jon is the only other that the dragon let's ride. It's possible that Dany says dracaris to execute Jon and then drogon chooses to burn her up instead. Then everyone knows who the rightful King is.
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One of my colleagues suggested this one to me earlier today.  Its really a perfect fit for these writers.  For whatever reason though, my gut is telling me the story has to end with no dragons left. 

 
-fish- said:
So Maggie the Frog's prophecy was just wrong?   Lot of people died because of her just making stuff up.
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I read today that the "Valonqar" part of the prophecy was left out of the HBO version of the story.  Leaving the ones that came true: basically, she is to marry a king, a younger queen takes everything from her, and she has 3 kids who all die.

 
Ilov80s said:
I don’t mean liked as is in they rooted for him. I meant liked as in they thought it was an entertaining and interesting villain. For example Joffrey was deeply hated but hated because he was such a great character. Euron is hated because he’s so boring and bland. 
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I didn't like him because he was too late to the game and was pretty much all-powerful for awhile.  Not to "book" things up....but he has much more of a build up.  Would have been better in the show if the Greyjoys were talking about him/where he was/what a bad ### he was etc. etc. before putting him in the Major Leagues without anytime in the Minors. 

 
krista4 said:
I think they pay attention, but don't process the negative parts because they wanted Dany to be their heroine.  A bit like Tyrion had done.  I mean, I read in here that people were naming their kids Khaleesi, so obviously there has been some excessive heroine worship going on, and it's not surprising that some on this board did the same.  Some (not all) of the posts along the lines of "the Dany I know wouldn't do this" seem like emotionally overwrought versions of a boyfriend who found out the girl he worshipped turned out to be a #####.  And she's beautiful and people want to believe she's good as a result.  Studies show this stuff happens.  I can see why people wanted it to be different.

Maybe it's because I watched all of the show in a truncated period, but it seemed evident to me how she was going to go.  I feel like it's been telegraphed for quite some time, not just this season.  I give a lot of credit to the actress who plays her, because she has said so much with a subtle look or a tone change without going over-the-top into capital A "Acting."  In the scene last episode where she asked Jon not to tell Arya/Sansa, she was full of emotion - crying, pleading - but when it became clear he wasn't going to agree, she did a 180 and the temperature in the room dropped 100 degrees as she adopted an icy, stoic glare and spat out her line to him.  Great acting that in my opinion helped deliver the logical conclusion.
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It doesn't really track IMO - at least not in the show. *Every* ruler has had to do terrible things to keep their power in this show. Compared to murdering every ******* known, ordering the murder of children, butchering people taking the black, poisoning hands, starting conflict between Lannister/Stark/Arryn, framing/beheading hands, blowing up churches, killing people with guest right, starving out cities, butchering entire towns, sacrificing a daughter, etc. etc. etc. I mean, until this past episode, Dany pretty much just killed slavers, oppressors, betrayers, and some khals. There weren't many innocents on Dany's list from her orders directly. She was against the sacking/pillaging/raping of cities. She even spared Jaime and Mormont - both of them relatively recent to when her madness switch got flipped. She and Jon have been the only kings/queens who even consider their people as something more than a means to and end, or a bother, or a PR opportunity. Even when she kills the Tarly dad/bro she gave them a choice - which was better than a lot of conquerors give the conquered.

As to her 180 turn. She was absolutely correct on all counts regarding what would happen. Is it any different than Lyanna asking Ned to keep Jon a secret? We don't seem to think Ned's 180 turn from honorable soldier to liar and hider of the Targaryen heir as him taking some evil turn. The entire point about her being like a worshipped idealized woman doesn't hold either. Ned and Jon fit that mold much more than Dany. I mean, they are literally like useful, predictable idiots throughout the entire series. Can we really think of time or two where they were clever? Or out maneuvered their enemies? Or even recognized their enemies before it was too late?

 
Thunderlips said:
I didn't like him because he was too late to the game and was pretty much all-powerful for awhile.  Not to "book" things up....but he has much more of a build up.  Would have been better in the show if the Greyjoys were talking about him/where he was/what a bad ### he was etc. etc. before putting him in the Major Leagues without anytime in the Minors. 
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Yep. He was so powerful and came literally out of nowhere. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
That’s fair but these people who say it’s out of character completely forgot what the Targaryens are known for. Literally a dozen times or more during the show people state aloud that they worry about her being just like her father. 
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Just because you are a Targ doesn't mean you are crazy or cruel. That sort of statement is more true of the Boltons who have a flayed man on their banner. By your logic we should expect Jon to take a crazy pill any day now and assume that Rhaegar was the same as his father - when by all accounts he was nothing of the sort.

 
Rewatched this evening and while I still don't see a snap as some well-earned moment by D&D as writers, once we settle on Mad Queen the rest is so gripping... It's really compelling television. Just going to accept what was put before me.

 
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bostonfred said:
No, because how did Jon die?  Arya wouldn't kill him.  If dany killed him, it wouldn't work.  Maybe they could pull this off with grey worm, because that's about the only person left that she trusts.  

Maybe drogon would pick jon over... oh. His mother.  Not likely.  

Maybe bran finally gets involved and wargs into drogon. That would make some sense, but it's a let down.  Especially after all the stuff he allowed to happen.  

Jon could kill her but that's a tough sell in 2019.

Yet i firmly believe these guys have set everything up to reach a specific, but unpredictable, ending.  I don't think it will necessarily be the ending everyone wanted, but it will be the ending they wanted.  
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I do wonder if Dany will attempt to have Drogon kill Jon, but Drogon either won’t be able to or decides not to.  There’s not many truly climactic possibilities left. 

 
I wouldn't be shocked if she wins.  She goes North and eliminates Sansa real quick for not wanting to be her friend and betraying her.....she keeps on Tyrion, maybe and gives Jon a chance to "take the black" again.  And then just settles in and governs as a hard assed but prosperous ruler.

 
The ending has been described by those in the know as bittersweet, so I think she will win it, but after last night, it will leave a sour taste in the mouths of many.  As pissed as Jon and Arya will be, everyone in her army last night will be on her side, and Grey Worm definitely noticed that Jon was ordering his soldiers to fall back when he was attacking right after Dany went nuclear.  Jon's head will be on the chopping block. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
The ending has been described by those in the know as bittersweet, so I think she will win it, but after last night, it will leave a sour taste in the mouths of many.  As pissed as Jon and Arya will be, everyone in her army last night will be on her side, and Grey Worm definitely noticed that Jon was ordering his soldiers to fall back when he was attacking right after Dany went nuclear.  Jon's head will be on the chopping block. 
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After she went all mad queen I don't see any way she can work with Jon or Tyrion.

 
hagmania said:
Rewatched this evening and while I still don't see a snap as some well-earned moment by D&D as writers, once we settle on Mad Queen the rest is so gripping... It's really compelling television. Just going to accept what was put before me.
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Good attitude hopefully the other Dany worshippers will soon do the same.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Wha...? That's exactly what happened. It's not ambiguous at all, several tens of thousands of pounds of stone crushed her. The camera was right on them, we saw the stone descend. Am I high reading this? Were you high watching it?
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Some people still have a hangover from the walking dead and Glenn escaping under the dumpster. 

 
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