Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (1 Viewer)

[modogg]

I thought the whole rescuing Theon scene was very dumb. First they build it up with this great speech by his sister and youre getting all amped for the rescue and then all Ramsay does is unlock the gates with the dogs and they run away with their tails between their legs like little #####es? They had swords. Are dogs immune to getting stabbed? Also Ramsay is fighting with no armor and survives? Yet they kill all his armored guards? He must be the best fighter in Westeros.

Dogs ain't no joke, Bro. Especially when you're fighting a dog and a dude with a sword....and double especially when what you're fighting for is gone.

i agree with this. my guess is these dogs aren't just normal dogs. they tore the crap out of that girl when they were hunting. i think that after Reek went to bite his sister's hand off she just felt it wasn't worth dying for. i think there were only 3 of them left. so 3 other fighters and some nasty dogs might be enough to just say F it. she goes back home and gets more soldiers and comes back again to storm the place. makes sense to me

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's absolutely ok to whine about the pace of this season. Just look at The Wire and how HBO treated it. They stalled and wandered a whole season (2) and then when season 5 came up HBO said their budget was 50% of the prior season and they just threw something together.

In 2 years if HBO does this again will all this Greyjoy stuff seem so enlightening if it's mass chaos for 3 episodes, then over?

I dont think I have concerns with hbo cutting budget on this show or tanking it. I think they know what they have with this show.I do think this is the weakest season so far though. I think a lot of the pacing has to do with most of the main characters not progressing anywhere. arya, jon, stannis, jamie, dany, brienne, sansa etc.. are basically doing same thing they were at the end of last year maybe with a difference in location.

there are still fantastic scenes and a great new character in oberyn, but overall it feels like not much new has happened besides joffrey no longer with us and tyrion on trial (which we have seen before too).

we are what 5 episodes in? i think we can say it is slower pace, but there have been some big things in this season. the killing of Joffrey, mystery around it, finding out about the weird sister and Littlefinger killing the old hand, etc.i look forward to seeing more of the Thenns. those dudes seemed pretty tough

that was episode 6 - only 4 to go. there have been a couple reveals, just think not much overall development from characters that for me keeps it interesting. other seasons have seen great story arcs from jamie, tyrion, theon, and dany that extend for a season. just don't think we have that this year.

 

[GregR]

I thought the transition from Theon to Reek was kind of weak. I never felt at all that Theon was broken, let alone broken to the point that gets portrayed after.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I thought the transition from Theon to Reek was kind of weak. I never felt at all that Theon was broken, let alone broken to the point that gets portrayed after.

agree. they barely show it at the end of last year and then he is Ramsay's pet.

I thought the theon line when he goes back home and his battle of being a cast out from both families was a lot better a couple seasons ago.

 

[the moops]

we can see the problem here, can't we? loads of complaints about the amount of theon scenes last year, now there are complaints that there was not enough time spent on his transition.

keep please everyone.

 

[Gr00vus]

...Before Shae makes a surprise appearance to testify against Tyrion (more on that in a moment), so much of what makes the trial so fascinating are those constant cuts to Jaime watching the action and recognizing what a sham of a mockery of a travesty the whole thing is. Tyrion recognizes that from the start and is barely making an effort — the only times he speaks up in the early going are when Meryn Trant is only telling half the story of Tyrion slapping Joffrey, and when his pal Varys sadly turns against him (Varys believes in Tyrion's goodness, but can also recognize a lost cause) — but it takes Jaime longer to recognize how rigged this particular game is. And we get to appreciate that transformation bit by bit, even as Bryan Cogman's script turns into a terrific, if warped, trip down memory lane as Trant, Cersei, Pycelle and others bring up Tyrion's transgressions — some imagined, some exaggerated, some real — against the sainted King Joffrey.

And in showing us all the testimony and Tyrion's defeated, indifferent reaction to most of it, the episode sets us up beautifully for the gut punch that is Shae's entrance. We were told several episodes ago that she had safely made her way onto a ship to Braavos, so either she got cold feet, or Tywin or Cersei arranged for her return. And it's here that Tyrion's cruel-to-be-kind approach to protecting his lover appears to be coming back to bite him terribly, as Shae comes across not as someone who has been coerced into giving false testimony, but someone who relishes the opportunity, given the last conversation they had and her previous fears about Tyrion's affections transferring to Sansa.

I didn't expect Peter Dinklage to spend the entire season in a cell, but the story has understandably kept him sidelined for the last few weeks. Here, though, he got a chance to shine (as of now, this is his clear Emmy submission episode) in an episode that played as a dark mirror of his trial in the Eyrie back in season 1. There, he was afraid for his life but also reasonably confident he could outwit crazy Lady Arryn and her smug knights. Here, he starts out having given up, knowing both how powerful his father and sister are and how much they despise him. When Jaime explains the compromise he reached with Tywin, Tyrion rightly recognizes it as the same deal Ned Stark was offered, but seems willing to take his chances with it. But then Shae comes in, and his world turns upside down. Tyrion understands a life where his father and sister resent him, even one where people laugh at him, as the crowd does as Shae talks about their first night together(*). But a world where Shae has turned so completely and utterly against him — where his public humiliation and impending death are now tied to such betrayal from the one good and safe thing he once had? That utterly breaks him, and leads to the incredible thing that happens next, when Tyrion tears into the crowd and then demands a trial by combat.

(*) What makes that so effective, as both convincing testimony and something that will hurt Tyrion emotionally, is that, like most of what's said on the witness stand, it has elements of truth. Bronn did take Shae away from a knight in another tent, Tyrion really did ask her to make love to him like it was his last night on earth, just as he made the threat against Cersei that she quotes back to the court (albeit in an altered context). Lies are always easier when they have some honesty backing them up.

...

Let's hear it for Dinklage.

That was a kickass Emmy-worthy scene.

Have to tell you this actor is great, the character is great, Dinklage rocks as the character. If an actor can rise to being heroic, Dinklage did it there in my book.

Give him the damn Emmy.

He's been good, but I have to say the hype is a bit thick. His accent is annoying - can't figure out what he's trying to do with that. I think he's one of very few Americans casted on the show. Any good American actor should do one or more British accents perfectly. Dinklage sounds like a high school kid trying to do Shakespeare.

I agree, it's something I mentioned towards the beginning of the series. I think he's improved in this area a bit as the series has gone on, but it's still noticeable.

 

[GregR]

we can see the problem here, can't we? loads of complaints about the amount of theon scenes last year, now there are complaints that there was not enough time spent on his transition.

keep please everyone.

It isn't even that there wasn't enough time spent on his transition.

It's that the scenes didn't have an actor portraying a man as broken as the events in the scene suggest he was. I'd have been fine with letting us know he was being tortured and only seeing the results after the fact.

Showing the moment that he breaks, but him not being portrayed like he's ready to break like that, made it feel contrived. I'm not blaming the actor specifically either. The writer and director are probably more at fault.

 

[shadyridr]

nobody who has read any of the books is allowed to post anything in this thread without tempers rising.

yes. its not too complicated

this is ridiculous. Does everyone have to have a background check before posting in this thread?

 

[ScottNorwood]

nobody who has read any of the books is allowed to post anything in this thread without tempers rising.

yes. its not too complicated

this is ridiculous. Does everyone have to have a background check before posting in this thread?

It's not that hard. I mean, you wouldn't post a truth about Hitler in the Lies About Hitler thread.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

we can see the problem here, can't we? loads of complaints about the amount of theon scenes last year, now there are complaints that there was not enough time spent on his transition.

keep please everyone.

It isn't even that there wasn't enough time spent on his transition.

It's that the scenes didn't have an actor portraying a man as broken as the events in the scene suggest he was. I'd have been fine with letting us know he was being tortured and only seeing the results after the fact.

Showing the moment that he breaks, but him not being portrayed like he's ready to break like that, made it feel contrived. I'm not blaming the actor specifically either. The writer and director are probably more at fault.

its just not that interesting, doesn't translate on screen

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

 

[Thunderlips]

I thought the transition from Theon to Reek was kind of weak. I never felt at all that Theon was broken, let alone broken to the point that gets portrayed after.

Sometimes what you don't see is worse than what you do see. Last season, he accepted the mantle of Reek under pain.....I'm not exactly sure of the time frame between seasons (at times, they do seem a bit messed up)......but you got to assume that Ramsey was relentness and Stockholm Syndromed his ###. Reek did have a lot of scars on that body.....

 

[Gr00vus]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

It's tough to convey on screen. They could possibly have devoted a bit less time to the sadistic torture scenes and maybe a little more on scenes involving the psychological aftermath of said torture, but I don't know how compelling that would be.

 

[GregR]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

A lot more broken down. A LOT. He has to get to a point that it hurts so bad and he's so scared of it going on that he's willing to give up his sense of self if that will make it stop.

Instead he just felt like a guy giving in for that moment to stop the current bit of torture. It was a fitting depiction for, say, a prisoner of war who finally started giving up information under torture, or agreeing to read his captor's statements that he committed war crimes to avoid the next blow. Not someone who was ready to lose his entire identity to avoid what was being done.

 

[GregR]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

It's tough to convey on screen. They could possibly have devoted a bit less time to the sadistic torture scenes and maybe a little more on scenes involving the psychological aftermath of said torture, but I don't know how compelling that would be.

Yes, exactly. It could maybe be told with another prisoner through whose eyes you see the psychological effects on Theon over time. Or showing him in a cell, dreading more and more the sound of footsteps coming to his cell. Those sorts of things would tell the story much better than the actual torture would.

 

[Thunderlips]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

It's tough to convey on screen. They could possibly have devoted a bit less time to the sadistic torture scenes and maybe a little more on scenes involving the psychological aftermath of said torture, but I don't know how compelling that would be.

Yes, exactly. It could maybe be told with another prisoner through whose eyes you see the psychological effects on Theon over time. Or showing him in a cell, dreading more and more the sound of footsteps coming to his cell. Those sorts of things would tell the story much better than the actual torture would.

Good point.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If you were writing/directing how would you convey theon being broken?

It's tough to convey on screen. They could possibly have devoted a bit less time to the sadistic torture scenes and maybe a little more on scenes involving the psychological aftermath of said torture, but I don't know how compelling that would be.

Yes, exactly. It could maybe be told with another prisoner through whose eyes you see the psychological effects on Theon over time. Or showing him in a cell, dreading more and more the sound of footsteps coming to his cell. Those sorts of things would tell the story much better than the actual torture would.

I think Theon has that Helsinki Syndrome.

 

[strykerpks]

Lol at psychological transition. His GD **** got cut off!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think it was handled poorly but necessary to place Theon into a position where he will snap out of it and get his revenge on Ramsay when he is sent off on this mission.

Which from a character POV I'm wondering why in the hell is Ramsay about to send him on this mission again?

 

[Premier]

Dinklage is such an amazing actor. What a scene.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

So you can basically sidestep any trial at any point by just blurting out "Combat time #####es!"... Is that right? Basically anyone who is guilty or who sees their trial going sour can just say, "Aw heck, fight me for it, yeah?"

Awesome.

 

[shadyridr]

So you can basically sidestep any trial at any point by just blurting out "Combat time #####es!"... Is that right? Basically anyone who is guilty or who sees their trial going sour can just say, "Aw heck, fight me for it, yeah?"

Awesome.

YEaH SO UNREALISTIC!

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

And why is everyone clamoring for the Iron Throne when they should be out robbing banks? Even the bald eunuch is creaming his shorts to sit on the uncomfortable sword chair, and for what? Just like our world, the bankers run the show, everyone else is just in debt. This whole series is about a bunch of clowns fighting over who gets to be the bankers' next puppet.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

So you can basically sidestep any trial at any point by just blurting out "Combat time #####es!"... Is that right? Basically anyone who is guilty or who sees their trial going sour can just say, "Aw heck, fight me for it, yeah?"

Awesome.

YEaH SO UNREALISTIC!

You'd think somebody there woulda noticed the loophole by now. "For F's sake, why are we having another trial, these things always just end in combat anyway. Can't one of these aholes just play his combat-card right out if the gate for a change? We have to sit through all that boring testimony every. single. time. Let's get to the combat already!"

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

So you can basically sidestep any trial at any point by just blurting out "Combat time #####es!"... Is that right? Basically anyone who is guilty or who sees their trial going sour can just say, "Aw heck, fight me for it, yeah?"

Awesome.

YEaH SO UNREALISTIC!

You'd think somebody there woulda noticed the loophole by now. "For F's sake, why are we having another trial, these things always just end in combat anyway. Can't one of these aholes just play his combat-card right out if the gate for a change? We have to sit through all that boring testimony every. single. time. Let's get to the combat already!"

Really, the judge should just lead off with it. I mean, you KNOW it's coming every time, so why wait - "You gonna play your douchey combat card? Yeah, thought so. Let's get it over with..."

 

[Chaka]

nobody who has read any of the books is allowed to post anything in this thread without tempers rising.

yes. its not too complicated

feel free to put me on ignore then. I dont talk about stuff that isn't show related, and I don't see the point of not talking about the show because I have read a couple books.

if only there was another thread where book readers could talk about the show. I just don't get the need to come into a thread where people here specifically are asking you not to be here. I don't even think tim does that.

Who made you king of this thread?

KP please feel welcome here and try not to worry about those whose panties twist so easily.

 

[KarmaPolice]

nobody who has read any of the books is allowed to post anything in this thread without tempers rising.

yes. its not too complicated

feel free to put me on ignore then. I dont talk about stuff that isn't show related, and I don't see the point of not talking about the show because I have read a couple books.

if only there was another thread where book readers could talk about the show. I just don't get the need to come into a thread where people here specifically are asking you not to be here. I don't even think tim does that.

Who made you king of this thread?KP please feel welcome here and try not to worry about those whose panties twist so easily.

 

[Otis]

What a bunch of nerds.

 

[Freelove]

What a bunch of nerds.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

How did they get the necklace? Did Littlefinger send it back for the trial?

 

[Otis]

What a bunch of nerds.

Right??

 

[fruity pebbles]

How did they get the necklace? Did Littlefinger send it back for the trial?

littlefinger left the necklace and the body of the fool in a boat in the harbor.

 

[KarmaPolice]

What a bunch of nerds.

LINK

 

[Maelstrom]

nobody who has read any of the books is allowed to post anything in this thread without tempers rising.

yes. its not too complicated

feel free to put me on ignore then. I dont talk about stuff that isn't show related, and I don't see the point of not talking about the show because I have read a couple books.

if only there was another thread where book readers could talk about the show. I just don't get the need to come into a thread where people here specifically are asking you not to be here. I don't even think tim does that.

Who made you king of this thread?KP please feel welcome here and try not to worry about those whose panties twist so easily.

Yah, the reaction by some is just rediculous. Absolutely.

For the record, I have read all of the books (1-3 a few times), sometimes stay up on the basics of the speculation about where some of the storylines are going, but infrequently.

Put me on ignore if you must, I don't generally post in this thread, but if I do, I make sure it isn't spoilery. Those that get their panties in a twist about book readers being in this thread should just quit forums, lock themselves in their room and never go online, for fear of a spoiler.

As for the show, I do have 2 comments. First, I'm really enjoying seeing one of my favorite stories brought to life. Dinklage deserves another award.

And as far as Reek goes...um, his #### was chopped the #### off. The other thing I didn't see mentioned was his "escape" attempt, where it was made clear that anything that he did, Ramsey either arranged or already knew of. It seems like he was pretty well broken from those points on, and the show depicted his descent fairly well. Beyond what they have shown, what else would you have them show? Seems like it would just be more gratuitous torture, and HBO's already allowed quite a bit in that direction. Not sure I want to see more, to be honest.

Anyways, that's all, flame away non-book panty-twisters.

 

[Chaka]

What a bunch of nerds.

Derp

 

[Chaka]

And as far as Reek goes...um, his #### was chopped the #### off. The other thing I didn't see mentioned was his "escape" attempt, where it was made clear that anything that he did, Ramsey either arranged or already knew of. It seems like he was pretty well broken from those points on, and the show depicted his descent fairly well. Beyond what they have shown, what else would you have them show? Seems like it would just be more gratuitous torture, and HBO's already allowed quite a bit in that direction. Not sure I want to see more, to be honest.

Agreed. He had what seemed to be a long, rough descent with the ultimate capper. I did not need to see any more to make his current state seem plausible.

 

[No. 4]

we can see the problem here, can't we? loads of complaints about the amount of theon scenes last year, now there are complaints that there was not enough time spent on his transition.

keep please everyone.

It isn't even that there wasn't enough time spent on his transition.

It's that the scenes didn't have an actor portraying a man as broken as the events in the scene suggest he was. I'd have been fine with letting us know he was being tortured and only seeing the results after the fact.

Showing the moment that he breaks, but him not being portrayed like he's ready to break like that, made it feel contrived. I'm not blaming the actor specifically either. The writer and director are probably more at fault.

 

[No. 4]

Keep in mind Theon was already breaking down mentally after taking Winterfell. He knew he made a mistake, but he was in too deep. Not too hard to believe he would completely break down after being castrated and flayed after betraying his adoptive family after literally being cast out by his biological family. He has no place to go. He is literally at his lowest point.

 

[Deepster]

Where was he flayed? Is that shown or addressed in the show? I thought he had his schvantz lopped off most or all of the way. Did they flay his hand when Ramsay was slicing at his finger when he was on the big X?

 

[Otis]

What a bunch of nerds.

Exactly.

Show is great. Fighting about it in here is REALLY nerdy.

 

[fruity pebbles]

So im assuming Jamie fights for his brother, is that what we think goes down next week. They have to show Jamie's new sword skills soon don;t they?

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am still patiently waiting for Hodor to pull some next level Keyser Soze #### on us.

 

[Deepster]

So im assuming Jamie fights for his brother, is that what we think goes down next week. They have to show Jamie's new sword skills soon don;t they?

The showed (who I believe is) The Mountain in the previews for next week. I have to think he's Tywin's/The Court's choice and Tyrian gives Oberron the chance to get revenge. From that preview, that was my guess and, quite frankly, I'd be a little ticked if it was that simple and the preview leaked it so easily.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Where was he flayed? Is that shown or addressed in the show? I thought he had his schvantz lopped off most or all of the way. Did they flay his hand when Ramsay was slicing at his finger when he was on the big X?

Thought they showed him going for his pinky finger while he was on the X

 

[KarmaPolice]

Look I am not an expert on torture or anything. I think I and others found it a little much that Theon was still like that when his rescue was right there in the room with him. I get him not cutting Ramsay's throat while all his guards are there, but Sunday night was a whole different level.

As people have pointed out, he was broken before Ramsay got him and we did see the psychological side as he lets him out just to hunt him down, etc.. Not that I really want to see another season of Ramsay ####### with Theon, but I just felt that there was a next level to when we see Theon call himself Reek at the end of season 2 to where he is in episode 6 and refusing to go with his sister.

Long story short, I assume people are picking this apart because the story line kinda sucks and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

 

[Freelove]

What a bunch of nerds.

The irony escapes you that the clip is of characters obsessed with people they claim they feel superior to, but feel the need to have meltdowns over in public all the same? Seems to be a recurring theme in your posts.

 

[Slider6]

Look I am not an expert on torture or anything. I think I and others found it a little much that Theon was still like that when his rescue was right there in the room with him. I get him not cutting Ramsay's throat while all his guards are there, but Sunday night was a whole different level.

As people have pointed out, he was broken before Ramsay got him and we did see the psychological side as he lets him out just to hunt him down, etc.. Not that I really want to see another season of Ramsay ####### with Theon, but I just felt that there was a next level to when we see Theon call himself Reek at the end of season 2 to where he is in episode 6 and refusing to go with his sister.

Long story short, I assume people are picking this apart because the story line kinda sucks and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Are people just forgetting the scene early in the season where Ramsay introduces Reek to Roose and has Reek shave him?!

 

[Chaka]

Look I am not an expert on torture or anything. I think I and others found it a little much that Theon was still like that when his rescue was right there in the room with him. I get him not cutting Ramsay's throat while all his guards are there, but Sunday night was a whole different level.

As people have pointed out, he was broken before Ramsay got him and we did see the psychological side as he lets him out just to hunt him down, etc.. Not that I really want to see another season of Ramsay ####### with Theon, but I just felt that there was a next level to when we see Theon call himself Reek at the end of season 2 to where he is in episode 6 and refusing to go with his sister.

Long story short, I assume people are picking this apart because the story line kinda sucks and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Are people just forgetting the scene early in the season where Ramsay introduces Reek to Roose and has Reek shave him?!

He didn't forget. I guess it wasn't compelling enough.

I have no problem with Theon's state of mind or his reactions to the rescue attempt. Ramsay tried that #### with him last season and made him pay dearly, I can understand that he didn't jump at the opportunity to get something else cut off.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Look I am not an expert on torture or anything. I think I and others found it a little much that Theon was still like that when his rescue was right there in the room with him. I get him not cutting Ramsay's throat while all his guards are there, but Sunday night was a whole different level.

As people have pointed out, he was broken before Ramsay got him and we did see the psychological side as he lets him out just to hunt him down, etc.. Not that I really want to see another season of Ramsay ####### with Theon, but I just felt that there was a next level to when we see Theon call himself Reek at the end of season 2 to where he is in episode 6 and refusing to go with his sister.

Long story short, I assume people are picking this apart because the story line kinda sucks and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Are people just forgetting the scene early in the season where Ramsay introduces Reek to Roose and has Reek shave him?!

I mentioned it in that quote, but I wasn't clear. I get him being beat down enough to not hurt Ramsay or cut his throat with his father and guards there. he is ob another level of messed up to not go with asha when the odds are more level.

 

[KarmaPolice]

What a bunch of nerds.

..or it was just a clip of some dudes shouting "nerds"