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General Malaise "vs." reading comprehension ; also some talk of skyim and the elder scrolls (1 Viewer)

Most regular companions can be killed and most aren't that strong.  I am talking about housecarls and companions you can hire.  IIRC their level is based on your level and they cap out at a certain level.  I always found that they got in the way so I don't like using them.  I really prefer to conjure.  The vampire woman part of the Dawnguard DLC can't be killed, though.  I think her name is Serena or something like that.  I kept her as help on additional quests outside of the Dawnguard quests, but even then I got tired of it since she sucks at sneaking and constantly gave my position away.  Conjuring is better if you want companions/help on some quests.

Also, there is a quest where you have to kill a follower.  I forget which quest but I am pretty sure it was one of the divines quests (for one of the gods/demon gods).  I would usually hire a follower from a tavern who I wouldn't otherwise use, take him to the shrine and kill him there (part of the quest).

 
If I'm remembering right, don't followers only die if you hit them during combat?  Otherwise they just take a knee and the bad guys let them go?

Except for maybe a giant one-shotting them.

 
GregR said:
If I'm remembering right, don't followers only die if you hit them during combat?  Otherwise they just take a knee and the bad guys let them go?

Except for maybe a giant one-shotting them.
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IIRC only followers that are essential will not die, otherwise they kill-able. Unless you have mods.

 
Hawks64 said:
GregR said:
If I'm remembering right, don't followers only die if you hit them during combat?  Otherwise they just take a knee and the bad guys let them go?

Except for maybe a giant one-shotting them.
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IIRC only followers that are essential will not die, otherwise they kill-able. Unless you have mods.
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Ok here's the full skinny from UESP:

Follower Death


All permanent followers become protected NPCs while they are actively following you. When your follower would die due to an enemy attack or a trap, they will be incapacitated for some time and begin to recover their health, just like essential NPCs; enemies will stop attacking or targeting them during this time. However, if they lose all their health again during this period, they will die for good. Thus, you should try to move the fight away from them, so that they are not hit by a stray arrow or area-effect spell. They can die from a damage-over-time effect that is stronger than their health recovery; most commonly those are caused by poisons.

If you strike your follower dead, on the other hand, there is no recovery. Attack carefully when your follower is low on health.
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So if you're the one to put them at 0 health they die instantly which is the part I was remembering. Otherwise they don't die at zero health, they take a knee and start healing. But subsequent damage from any source while they are taking a knee that takes them back to 0 will kill them, not just from you. But enemies won't target them during that time, they'd just have to get hit by bad luck.

Good advice though to flee the area to move the fight if your follower takes a knee.

 
Hawks64 said:
Well I was like a kid in a candy store with unlimited money.
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One of the big things is load order. Certain things have to load after others and some mods are incompatible with others. Really have to read carefully and do some research before loading. For example I am running the unofficial patch and the Breezehome mod. Everything goes after the patch and Breezehome won't work with Open City's.

 
I've heard that Falkreath and Open Cities can get buggy, but they're also very cool mods. So far my load order must be working, because I've got at least 10 mods in and they all seem to be playing nicely. I'd like to add more, especially the two above. I'm only 10 or 15 hours into the reboot, so I haven't even started any of the DLCs and have only discovered a few of the major cities, but this is just as much fun as it was the first time around, especially with mods. 

 
NCCommish said:
One of the big things is load order. Certain things have to load after others and some mods are incompatible with others. Really have to read carefully and do some research before loading. For example I am running the unofficial patch and the Breezehome mod. Everything goes after the patch and Breezehome won't work with Open City's.
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Is there nothing like this https://loot.github.io/ for platform users?

 
Followers are annoying if you're a ranged attacker. For some reason they love criss-crossing over your firing line all battle. F'n idiots.

 
Smoo said:
Followers are annoying if you're a ranged attacker. For some reason they love criss-crossing over your firing line all battle. F'n idiots.
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Followers are a mixed blessing but yeah its hard to get a good one for ranged attackers. You  have to keep repositioning yourself to get clear shots which in some dungeons it's hard to do.

 
NCCommish said:
One of the big things is load order. Certain things have to load after others and some mods are incompatible with others. Really have to read carefully and do some research before loading. For example I am running the unofficial patch and the Breezehome mod. Everything goes after the patch and Breezehome won't work with Open City's.
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Thanks, I am aware of the load order and have tried things in different order. I have also disabled a few things to no avail. Oh well.

 
So it appears that the culprit is the Skyrim Graphics Overhaul mod, I was in altfand and it started crashing again. And this time it was killing a major questline in Dawnguard so I had to figure it out. Killed every graphics overhaul I had and it started working again. It could have been realistic waters as well since the Dwemer ruins always have water but I wasn't in a water portion of the ruin. Once I finish I'm heading to falkreath and testing some more.

 
So I finally got my enchanting to 100 and can double enchant my weapons but now I'm so strong I don't need it. However I did one-shot a dragon which I was skeptical I'd ever do.  :ninja:  Now I have smithing, sneak, archery and enchant at 100 each. My broken quests are starting to add up so I may start another build. Maybe a robe wearing, pick pocket , illusion merchant - dunno. Sneaky archer is so me, maybe just try it without the smithing and enchanting - just use whatever best bow I find or something.

 
Double enchanting stuff is what stops the game being fun for me. Once I know I'll never find any items that are better than what I have, I quickly lose interest. The adjustments I modded for myself I try to make it so enchanting will fill a hole in my equipment where I haven't found a good ring or a good helmet yet.  But what I enchant won't be as good as what I'll eventually find.  Also upped how much magic stuff I find in chests and on bandits and such.

 
Mile High said:
Followers are a mixed blessing but yeah its hard to get a good one for ranged attackers. You  have to keep repositioning yourself to get clear shots which in some dungeons it's hard to do.
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I don't take them into dungeons. I take the best loot in my crawls and then use them as pack mule when I get out.

 
Todem said:
Mile High said:
Followers are a mixed blessing but yeah its hard to get a good one for ranged attackers. You  have to keep repositioning yourself to get clear shots which in some dungeons it's hard to do.
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I don't take them into dungeons. I take the best loot in my crawls and then use them as pack mule when I get out.
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Just take away their weapon and give them a bow...wa la they are now a ranged attacker. The only issue with that if they are a mage, like Serana.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
So I finally got my enchanting to 100 and can double enchant my weapons but now I'm so strong I don't need it. However I did one-shot a dragon which I was skeptical I'd ever do.  :ninja:  Now I have smithing, sneak, archery and enchant at 100 each. My broken quests are starting to add up so I may start another build. Maybe a robe wearing, pick pocket , illusion merchant - dunno. Sneaky archer is so me, maybe just try it without the smithing and enchanting - just use whatever best bow I find or something.
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This is what I am doing...sneaky archer with no enchanting or smithing.  I am level 20 and the best I have is a mundane glass bow.  My wood elf disdains physical labor is how I started the character.  Seems to be working out since I do pretty good damage with a bow, but not 1 shot killing anything but the cannon fodder.  

 
I'm not enchanting or smithing either.  But at this point with perks on a sneak attack with a critical hit I am at nearly 400 damage in one shot. That's using the bound bow. Last night did a crypt full of death Lords. Dropping them.in 3-4 shots. With the stagger effect they never got a shot in. Lydia was no problem as nothing got within melee range. It was actually fairly easy

 Lydia is hooked up to. She has an ebony bow, ebony sword, ebony shield, full Nordic carved armor. Really bad ### looking and can deal/take some substantial damage. Forgot her boots reduce fire damage by 40% as well.

Right now I'm  word farming clearing out various tombs.

 
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Hawks64 said:
Just take away their weapon and give them a bow...wa la they are now a ranged attacker. The only issue with that if they are a mage, like Serana.
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Serana is pretty much the only follower I use anymore. Also I'm playing on legendary level which at least makes the fighting last longer and can still  get overwhelmed. 

 
GregR said:
Double enchanting stuff is what stops the game being fun for me. Once I know I'll never find any items that are better than what I have, I quickly lose interest. The adjustments I modded for myself I try to make it so enchanting will fill a hole in my equipment where I haven't found a good ring or a good helmet yet.  But what I enchant won't be as good as what I'll eventually find.  Also upped how much magic stuff I find in chests and on bandits and such.
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Seems like you feel my pain- finding loot is much more fun than creating it. I asked about this earlier in the thread, but never got a response. It could be because it doesn't exist, but I'm looking for a mod that randomizes the strength of loot. For instance, why does Daedric armor always have to be the end-all? Why can't I find an Ebony piece that has poor stats, and then find a fur piece that is superior? I really hate the way the different weapon and armor types are tiered. Have you heard of a mod like that?

 
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-arcK- said:
Seems like you feel my pain- finding loot is much more fun than creating it. I asked about this earlier in the thread, but never got a response. It could be because it doesn't exist, but I'm looking for a mod that randomizes the strength of loot. For instance, why does Daedric armor always have to be the end-all? Why can't I find an Ebony piece that has poor stats, and then find a fur piece that is superior? I really hate the way the different weapon and armor types are tiered. Have you heard of a mod like that?
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Loot was always the weak link in Elder Scrolls games. I like finding stuff of value to sell, but I rarely use anything I find.

 
-arcK- said:
Seems like you feel my pain- finding loot is much more fun than creating it. I asked about this earlier in the thread, but never got a response. It could be because it doesn't exist, but I'm looking for a mod that randomizes the strength of loot. For instance, why does Daedric armor always have to be the end-all? Why can't I find an Ebony piece that has poor stats, and then find a fur piece that is superior? I really hate the way the different weapon and armor types are tiered. Have you heard of a mod like that?
Click to expand...
You could mod the game to be that way, but it would be some effort.

Each item you can get in the game is defined behind the scenes with set stats. You can't make Ebony armor with a random armor rating. But what you can do is make multiple Ebony armors that have different armor ratings but are otherwise identical.

The hard part is the sheer number of items. It's easy to make 5 versions of Ebony armor like that (open the original, change the armor rating, slightly change the behind-the-scenes name so it's unique and save it, repeat).  However if you want to do that for helmet, cuirass, boots, gauntlets, sword, dagger, bow, war axe, war hammer, two-handed sword etc etc for iron, glass, steal, dwarven, orcish, etc etc that gets to be a lot of effort.  Especially if you want this for magic weapons and armor too. 

Once you've got the pieces created as you like, now you need to go put it into the game or else it won't ever show up. For random chest loot, for random bandit wear, etc, there are lists of items that when accessed the game randomly selects one to give to the bandit or stick in the chest. So you'd go to the list for heavy cuirasses and you'd add all of your new ones in. Again, there's a bunch of lists to edit as there are lists by weapon/armor material, lists by armor or weapon type, etc.

It's not a small amount of effort unfortunately.  Not hard, just repetitive.  I didn't create a lot of new items with my mod so I didn't have that part, but I heavily edited those lists to drastically reduce ingots and magic items from merchants, and give magic items to chests and bandits and such.  I think it was worth it for me as now every time I play it I have those changes how I like it. But I might have spent 10 hours on it over a week or two getting it how I liked.

 
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So did some more missions with Lydia and decided to pursue the Companions story line. Got to the point where you have to leave the follower behind and decided it was time to make an honest woman of her. She makes me dinners, she gives me money and she never asks where I've been. Even when I walk in with a kind of hot vampire chick. Who obviously wants me. I always do well with women who have daddy issues. I could sense some tension when they were together in the living room not saying a word to each other though.

And really I am not sure I care for Serena as a follower. She is the Skyrim version of "are we there yet?" One more time and I will pull this game over. Lydia never bugged me when I went off on a tangent. The world will not self destruct without me. Heck the Blades chick has been waiting for game weeks. I'd be pissed if I were her.

 
So as hinted at above I am doing Dawnguard. To the part where I have to go skin a tree and do some butterfly magic. That it takes most people decades to master. But when you are the Dragonborn who is the reincarnated Hero of Kvatch who was the reincarnated Nerevarine it's all in a days adventuring.

 
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Hawks64 said:
So you're about half way through Dawnguard. How are you adjusting to life without Lydia?
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Well as I mentioned Serena is a pain with her constant I hope we get to so and so soon deal. And I think Lydia fits my play style a bit better. But we're making it work.

 
By the way, the thread about "Plains Trains & Automobiles" reminded me that I laughed quite a bit when I got to one of the towns (I don't recall which...) and the inn there is named the Braidwood Inn.  That's the "THOSE AREN'T PILLOWS !" motel that Del and Neal end up in early in the film when they get stranded in Wichita.

 
Well did the moth magic like a pro. Left off outside the cave the bow is allegedly in. Going in after it when I get home. 

 
GregR said:
You could mod the game to be that way, but it would be some effort.

..........

It's not a small amount of effort unfortunately.  Not hard, just repetitive.  I didn't create a lot of new items with my mod so I didn't have that part, but I heavily edited those lists to drastically reduce ingots and magic items from merchants, and give magic items to chests and bandits and such.  I think it was worth it for me as now every time I play it I have those changes how I like it. But I might have spent 10 hours on it over a week or two getting it how I liked.
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So it's very possible, just an extreme pain in the butt... The more variance I desire, the more items and lists I'd be creating/updating. Not sure I'm up to the task. Sigh. I just really like the dopamine effect when finding new loot, but the way this game is built looting gets overshadowed by crafting too quickly. I do like the changes you made in your mod, though. Did you make it available on Nexusmods?

 
-arcK- said:
GregR said:
You could mod the game to be that way, but it would be some effort.

..........

It's not a small amount of effort unfortunately.  Not hard, just repetitive.  I didn't create a lot of new items with my mod so I didn't have that part, but I heavily edited those lists to drastically reduce ingots and magic items from merchants, and give magic items to chests and bandits and such.  I think it was worth it for me as now every time I play it I have those changes how I like it. But I might have spent 10 hours on it over a week or two getting it how I liked.
Click to expand...
So it's very possible, just an extreme pain in the butt... The more variance I desire, the more items and lists I'd be creating/updating. Not sure I'm up to the task. Sigh. I just really like the dopamine effect when finding new loot, but the way this game is built looting gets overshadowed by crafting too quickly. I do like the changes you made in your mod, though. Did you make it available on Nexusmods?
Click to expand...
I never got around to packaging it up and all. And over time I got lazy and rather than keep things in separate files as I had starting out (so people could pick and choose what they'd want if I did release it) I started putting too much stuff in together.

A change you could do that would be much less work would be to nerf the perks and/or put level dependencies on them.  I cut enchanting back to about 75-80% of normal, made it so you can't dual enchant until... level 40 or 50, I forget. And about every 10 levels you can pick up the next +20% perk at the bottom. Smithing perks I also made level dependent so you'll find dwarven, elven, glass, etc as loot before you can start making it yourself.

Those are all pretty simple changes to make. Enchantment you just find the base type for each magic enchantment and reduce the rating and the rest scales from there.  Level dependencies you'll see the perk checks your skill rating, and you just add an additional criteria that checks your level. And modify the description to tell you what it is set to.  Just a few minutes to do the crafting stuff once you know where to look.

 
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After bringing a sneak archer to level 30 or so, I started a new toon that was going to be a somewhat DnD cleric. Mace only, heavy armor, shield, healing spells, etc. Have done prettymuch exactly that, but spells aren't as useful to this build as I imagined, so I'm not investing very heavy there. Don't really need them, to be honest - playing a heavily armored, shield-holding tank is brutal and fun. I specialize in heavy armor, block, and one-handed (going up the Mace branch). Level 21 right now - finished the civil war, and am at the end of the Companions. I'll play him until he gets boring, and then start a mage-type. 

Play style is so different. Where my sneak archer had to carefully and methodically plan out his stealth attack on a fort, quietly sniping and backstabbing one at a time, this guy just noisily walks in and beats everyone to death with his mace. Investing in just health and stamina, he can take a beating. Let them plink with their arrows from above as I bash my way through the ground level, then methodically climb the stairs and advance on the poor archer, who's clearly terrified as he backs away. I'm enjoying the hand-hand fighting with the shield. It's no Dark Souls, of course, but there's also a certain satisfaction in being this unstoppable juggernaut who doesn't worry about rounding every corner.   

 
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