Giants and Lavar Arrington Contract Thread (1 Viewer)

[Hear-the-Footsteps]

Who knows what would have been if they had just taken Ben and built around him this way.

The Steelers immediately had a better supporting cast than the Giants, so when all is said and done, people will look back and say Eli >>> Ben.

I like Big Ben and all - but I think it is too early to say which is the better QB. It has been two seasons and Ben definitely came into a better situation. Both teams had good runnings games in place, but all else has to go to Pitt.

Pitt had better WRs (at the time, the Giants did not have Plax). Pitt had Ward and Plax; while the Giants best wr was Toomer.

Pitt had a better o-line (Giants o-line 2 years ago was awful).

Pitt had a better D.

And finally, neither was supposed to be the starter. Eli didn't take over as the starter til about 10 games or so into the season. Ben took over, IIRC, 2nd game since Maddox got hurt so early on. So Ben had a half a season under his belt before Eli even got a chance.

That, coupled with all the above things, paved an easier road to success for Ben.

I think it is fun to debate who WILL be better when all is said and done. But we just don't know yet. Too early in my opinion.

 

[BigRed]

I don't get making the comparison at all, since NY wouldn't have drafted Roth. anyway.

Also FYI:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=237222

 

[Koya]

Title Editted because Contract Terms (as noted) are out.

What a great signing for the Giants. Liveable at 11 Million, only 5-6 Million up front, a lot of incentives, and the opportunity to make this a one year, 9 million dollar committment makes this deal a bargain for someone with Lavar's upside.

Now, the impetus is completely on Lavar to earn his money, play hard, stay focused while the risk on the Giants behalf is almost completley mitigated.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

giants fans will be happy if he starts 2006 where he left off in 2005...

i think in playoff win he had 10 tackles (6 solos), an INT almost returned for a TD & a FF. he could be playing with a big chip on his shoulder this season.

 

[corpcow]

I think it's a good move by the Giants. They had a need at the position,he's a proven player and appears very motivated. Sure there's a health concern but given the potential upside I think it's worth the risk. Gotta like what the Giants have done the last few years,they've been very aggresive in attacking the needs of their team,last year on offense,this year on defense,if your a fan that's all you can ask for. Good for them and good luck to them this year.

Yep. When you have someone of this caliber, coming off an injury with something to prove, it can really pay off. Look at what Ty Law did at the Jets last year. It's an especially good move given the structure of the deal.

When healthy, Arrington and Pierce are a great tandem (and have played together before). Throw in guys like Torbor, Griesen and Blackburn who really showed potential last year, the addition of Sam Madison (who i'll take over Will Allen any day) and a pair of elite DEs... our defense is only getting better.

And on the other side of the ball, you have all your major pieces locked in long term. Find an understudy for Tiki (is the big guy your long term answer? probably not) in the draft maybe, now that we don't have to try to Greenway.

The only problem is the Manning "I #### the bed" Curse. Think the Steelers will take Eli for Ben?

 

[corpcow]

I think it is fun to debate who WILL be better when all is said and done. But we just don't know yet. Too early in my opinion.

I'll try to be as objective as possible as a Jets/Giants/Steelers fan. (grew up as a Jets fan, Dad is a Giants fan and I have season tickets, and fiance is from Pittsburgh, so, well, I have no choice). My money is on Ben long term.

Ben had a great system, but he's shown a remarkable ability to just win. He was less than stellar in the Super Bowl and the NE loss the year before, but he's really come through.

I don't see the Mannings as particularly clutch. Peyton, after arguably the best season ever, couldn't get it done in the big game. Eli looked miserable in that Carolina game. (Again, cutting him some slack looking at Ben's first college performance).

I like to comapre to Brady vs. Peyton. If you're drafting a fantasy team, by all means take Peyton. But if you want to win an NFL championship, Brady is your guy. I see Ben more like Brady in that respect.

But, hey, as a Giants fan, I'd love to be proven wrong. Just do something about gimpy-arm Chad and I'll be happy.

 

[yetiknight]

I don't get making the comparison at all, since NY wouldn't have drafted Roth.  anyway.

Also FYI: 

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=237222

They might not have taken Rivers had there not been a deal on the table for Manning. It is entirely speculation to assume they would have drafted any specific player. It is, however, very likely they would have still drafted a quarterback.I brought it up because only Manning required a trade involving their 2005 first round pick. Just assume the players San Diego drafted were Giants as well as the free agents they have signed.

Shawne Merriman immediately comes to mind.

 

[fatness]

Yep. When you have someone of this caliber, coming off an injury with something to prove, it can really pay off. Look at what Ty Law did at the Jets last year.

Some of the problems Arrington had in getting playing time in the last year with Washington had to do with recovering from his injury. He was heavier, his knee was not healed, and there was doubt in the Redskin front office if he would ever regain his original pre-injury ability. I'm not taking issue with your post; just saying that coming off an injury is not the same for every player. Some get back to where they were before, and some are not able to do that. Arrington may be the latter.

 

[Bizkiteer]

So do the G-men "unretire" #56 so that Lavar can wear it and have the burden of being the next LT in NYC will fall squarely on his shoulders?

I can't wait until the first time he misses a tackle or assignment and the Post and Daily News and Mike & the Dog and everyone else in the 5 boroughs starts ripping on him. He got the absolute kid gloves treatment from the DC media and fans, (especially the brothers). He was never ripped in the Post or on TV the way other Redskins were (NO ONE mentioned that he missed the tackle on Alstott on the 2-point conversion against TB) and when he got benched last season for missing assignments and being a general dim bulb, the press was on his side and calling out Gibbs and Williams. That kind of treatment will end PDQ up in NYC.

So, good luck Big Blue fans, with Lavar you're going to need it.

You mean the 2 pt conversion where he never really crossed the line? Yeah, okay that one! I guess the other 10 guys on that play and all the other plays did what they were supposed to do, right? I guess maybe the one play Lavar didn't make that game was more important than the two blown coverages Walt Harris had for TD's, right? Get real, the only thing coming out in your post is the distain you hold for Lavar and you surely aren't looking at it objectively.Beware what you ask for because I'd never under estimate the motivation a player has when they play their old team. Hmmm, let see...he gets the deal he wanted for money wise and stays in the NFC East as he wanted. No more "If he's so great, why hasn't he been signed posts," but let's just talk crap for the hell of it. Take off the "Hate" glasses for a minute and you might be able to look at it clearly.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Yep. When you have someone of this caliber, coming off an injury with something to prove, it can really pay off. Look at what Ty Law did at the Jets last year.

Some of the problems Arrington had in getting playing time in the last year with Washington had to do with recovering from his injury. He was heavier, his knee was not healed, and there was doubt in the Redskin front office if he would ever regain his original pre-injury ability. I'm not taking issue with your post; just saying that coming off an injury is not the same for every player. Some get back to where they were before, and some are not able to do that. Arrington may be the latter.

It wasn't all injury recovery though. There was some shadiness going on behind the scenes. They will never come out and say it, but there was way more than just slowly recovering going on.

 

[Bizkiteer]

giants fans will be happy if he starts 2006 where he left off in 2005...

i think in playoff win he had 10 tackles (6 solos), an INT almost returned for a TD & a FF. he could be playing with a big chip on his shoulder this season.

Some sure forget these types of games, but theysure will point out where he was outof position on a play... Lavar can play period and I'm not crazy about him playing my team twice a year, let alone with a chip on his shoulder. Pierce had the same chip because he felt under appreciated for what he did in WAS and now Lavar...will add to any rivalry that was before.

Osi, Strahan, Pierce, Wilson and now Lavar...is starting to get scary. If their secondary is improved, remains to be seen if signings will work out or not, then they could be a REAL tuff Defense to move the ball consistantly on.

 

[fatness]

It wasn't all injury recovery though. There was some shadiness going on behind the scenes. They will never come out and say it, but there was way more than just slowly recovering going on.

I don't know that I'd call it shadiness, but I agree that something else in addition to his injury recovery was going on. I tend to think it was not being willing to stick to assignments, not understanding the defense, or understanding it but forgetting it when some plays started.

 

[Bizkiteer]

It wasn't all injury recovery though.  There was some shadiness going on behind the scenes.  They will never come out and say it, but there was way more than just slowly recovering going on.

I don't know that I'd call it shadiness, but I agree that something else in addition to his injury recovery was going on. I tend to think it was not being willing to stick to assignments, not understanding the defense, or understanding it but forgetting it when some plays started.

I disagree, when W. Holdman plays all game and gets 2 tackles and maybe 2 assists...Lavar stepped in the same type position and made 10 tackles. Even if one doesn't buy that arguement...you can't tell me that Lavar couldn't have come in on 3rd down to atleast pass rush? Come on, this guy was considered a top tier LB...as a coach, you can't find any situation to put him on the field? Wait, but they could find find a spot for Holdman or Clemons? Seriously, there was something else going on and players from other teams were even making comments about how glad that they were that he wasn't be used during their game. Sad state of affairs....IMO. I'll say Lavar did plenty wrong himself, but it takes TWO to tango...the organization just started the music.

 

[Bri]

I don't get making the comparison at all, since NY wouldn't have drafted Roth.  anyway.

Also FYI: 

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=237222

They might not have taken Rivers had there not been a deal on the table for Manning. It is entirely speculation to assume they would have drafted any specific player. It is, however, very likely they would have still drafted a quarterback.I brought it up because only Manning required a trade involving their 2005 first round pick. Just assume the players San Diego drafted were Giants as well as the free agents they have signed.

Shawne Merriman immediately comes to mind.

One thing sports fans never get is a good trade where both teams benefit. I'm often guilty of this myself you're just almost trained to pick a winner. The Giants were 4-12. Eli's rookie 9 game season they were 6-10. No camp competition, one NFL year under his belt and they went 11-5. They have a franchise QB. In the NFL that's a big deal.

The Chargers seem to have gotten their QB of the future too and added a stud LBer, as you mentioned. I think the Chargers made the playoffs in 04 and missed in 05.

Each team at 1 of 2 years making the playoffs since the trade. Each team looks to have a bright future.

I think it was a good trade for both teams

 

[thayman]

So do the G-men "unretire" #56 so that Lavar can wear it and have the burden of being the next LT in NYC will fall squarely on his shoulders? 

I can't wait until the first time he misses a tackle or assignment and the Post and Daily News and Mike & the Dog and everyone else in the 5 boroughs starts ripping on him.  He got the absolute kid gloves treatment from the DC media and fans, (especially the brothers).  He was never ripped in the Post or on TV the way other Redskins were (NO ONE mentioned that he missed the tackle on Alstott on the 2-point conversion against TB) and when he got benched last season for missing assignments and being a general dim bulb, the press was on his side and calling out Gibbs and Williams.  That kind of treatment will end PDQ up in NYC.

So, good luck Big Blue fans, with Lavar you're going to need it.

You mean the 2 pt conversion where he never really crossed the line? Yeah, okay that one! I guess the other 10 guys on that play and all the other plays did what they were supposed to do, right? I guess maybe the one play Lavar didn't make that game was more important than the two blown coverages Walt Harris had for TD's, right? Get real, the only thing coming out in your post is the distain you hold for Lavar and you surely aren't looking at it objectively.Beware what you ask for because I'd never under estimate the motivation a player has when they play their old team. Hmmm, let see...he gets the deal he wanted for money wise and stays in the NFC East as he wanted. No more "If he's so great, why hasn't he been signed posts," but let's just talk crap for the hell of it. Take off the "Hate" glasses for a minute and you might be able to look at it clearly.

Dont look at it as "hate glasses" you Giants fans will find out real quick how much LaVar is out of position. He is a freelancer, a freak running around the field on his own, he doesn't follow much of a scheme, that's why he was most successfull when Marv Lewis was in DC. He was lined up as a pure pass rusher quite a bit.Now I don't say freelancer, and out of position as a bad thing. I've always found that is what makes LaVar such a great player, he will get burned sometimes, but because he ISN'T where he is supposed to be, he can create havoc.

 

[Bizkiteer]

So do the G-men "unretire" #56 so that Lavar can wear it and have the burden of being the next LT in NYC will fall squarely on his shoulders? 

I can't wait until the first time he misses a tackle or assignment and the Post and Daily News and Mike & the Dog and everyone else in the 5 boroughs starts ripping on him.  He got the absolute kid gloves treatment from the DC media and fans, (especially the brothers).  He was never ripped in the Post or on TV the way other Redskins were (NO ONE mentioned that he missed the tackle on Alstott on the 2-point conversion against TB) and when he got benched last season for missing assignments and being a general dim bulb, the press was on his side and calling out Gibbs and Williams.  That kind of treatment will end PDQ up in NYC.

So, good luck Big Blue fans, with Lavar you're going to need it.

You mean the 2 pt conversion where he never really crossed the line? Yeah, okay that one! I guess the other 10 guys on that play and all the other plays did what they were supposed to do, right? I guess maybe the one play Lavar didn't make that game was more important than the two blown coverages Walt Harris had for TD's, right? Get real, the only thing coming out in your post is the distain you hold for Lavar and you surely aren't looking at it objectively.Beware what you ask for because I'd never under estimate the motivation a player has when they play their old team. Hmmm, let see...he gets the deal he wanted for money wise and stays in the NFC East as he wanted. No more "If he's so great, why hasn't he been signed posts," but let's just talk crap for the hell of it. Take off the "Hate" glasses for a minute and you might be able to look at it clearly.

Dont look at it as "hate glasses" you Giants fans will find out real quick how much LaVar is out of position. He is a freelancer, a freak running around the field on his own, he doesn't follow much of a scheme, that's why he was most successfull when Marv Lewis was in DC. He was lined up as a pure pass rusher quite a bit.Now I don't say freelancer, and out of position as a bad thing. I've always found that is what makes LaVar such a great player, he will get burned sometimes, but because he ISN'T where he is supposed to be, he can create havoc.

FYI - I'm a DIE HARD Redskins fan...

 

[fatness]

For Giant fans, Redskin fans, and anyone else interested, tomorrow (Tuesday) at 4 PM Eastern time Lavar Arrington will be on the John Thompson show again on SportsTalk 980. That's the show he's appeared on frequently over the years in the DC area. It's usually a long talk with him.

SportsTalk 980 --- Listen Online

 

[fatness]

Bump to remind anyone interested that Arrington is on the radio on the John Thompson show at 4 PM Eastern time (about 23 minutes from now). Link is in the post above.