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Girls HS golfer wins tournament, but not declared champion (1 Viewer)

Dickie Dunn

Dickie Dunn

Footballguy
Huge controversy brewing over the last couple of days here in Massachusetts, where a female golfer shot the lowest score in a sectional tournament. But according to state association rules, she was not declared the medalist.

Link

Some bullet points:

  • She plays on a boys team, because her school does not have a separate girls team (this is not unusual in Massachusetts) ... she hits from the same tees as the boys
  • Her score counted toward her team's score, but her team did not qualify for next week's state tournament
  • State association rules stipulate that while girls are allowed to play on a boys team, they can only qualify as individuals for the separate girls tournament (girls golf is held in the spring in Massachusetts)
  • She did play in the girls individual tournament in June
Thoughts?

 
So what’s the catch? She can play on the boys team and in a tournament with boys according to the already determined rules? I’m not seeing (or noticing) the reason given why she didn’t get to be the announced winner in your write up.

 
Beef Ravioli said:
So what’s the catch? She can play on the boys team and in a tournament with boys according to the already determined rules? I’m not seeing (or noticing) the reason given why she didn’t get to be the announced winner in your write up.
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That's the issue, and why people are losing their minds. But it's clearly in the association rules ... she can play as a member of the team for team competition, but as an individual she has to play in the girls tournament in the spring.

 
She should be champion if she shot the lowest score. Plain and simple. Exceptions are always made -- sports and precedent doesn't have to always be so serious. We live in an imperfect world. Do justice.  

 
I'm pretty outraged at this and other injustices in the world. I would put this on par with that one guy who didn't get to do that one thing because it was so blatantly unfair.

 
Dickie Dunn said:
That's the issue, and why people are losing their minds. But it's clearly in the association rules ... she can play as a member of the team for team competition, but as an individual she has to play in the girls tournament in the spring.
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I’m assuming she can play on the boys team only because there is not a girls team available to her?  It seems like she should get her trophy to me.

Curious, is she or her family making a big deal out of it?

 
This is still confusing.  Girl can't win boys individual division even if she's the lowest score in the boys division.  However, she is allowed to compete (and potentially win) as an individual in the girls division.   Even though boys can't play in the girls individual tourney, people are mad because the best player wasn't allowed to the boys division cause she's a girl.  Do I have that right? 

 
Brony said:
This is still confusing.  Girl can't win boys individual division even if she's the lowest score in the boys division.  However, she is allowed to compete (and potentially win) as an individual in the girls division.   Even though boys can't play in the girls individual tourney, people are mad because the best player wasn't allowed to the boys division cause she's a girl.  Do I have that right? 
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Correct. Which brings up an interesting question ... if she were allowed to compete as an individual in the boys tournament, should she also be allowed to compete in the girls tournament?

 
I read about this yesterday, she is on the boys team and allowed to compete in Boys Team events, but not Boys Individual. Seems odd.

Also this may just be me but (ignoring the fact that the rule is stupid and should be changed) if it was against the rules for her to win, why did they let her compete in the first place?

 
It's time to throw out gender rules for sports. It should be a meritocracy when it comes to earning a spot on a school team. If they want separation, it should be Varsity and JV not boys and girls. If you can't make the JV team, then just play with your friends after school. All these wonky rules shouldn't be necessary.

 
I can see the kid who wins the trophy who finished 2nd saying, "In your face GIRL!" as he runs to get on the school bus.  

 
It’s Massachusetts...

just say “my Sex is female but I gender identify as male” and they will cower in fear of lawsuits, and Hand her all the trophies :lol:  

 
If I were her I wouldn't even care about be declared the "winner" - she knows and the boys she competed against know that she beat them.  That would be the only part I would care about - 20/30 years from now no one will care about who won that tournament but she'll be able to recall how she beat all the guys.

As for what they should do - they should have followed their rule and it sounds like they did.  If enough people think the rule is dumb then work to get the rule changed before the next tournament/season.

 
Mr. Ected said:
I read about this yesterday, she is on the boys team and allowed to compete in Boys Team events, but not Boys Individual. Seems odd.

Also this may just be me but (ignoring the fact that the rule is stupid and should be changed) if it was against the rules for her to win, why did they let her compete in the first place?
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Because in golf most of the time the team events and individual are the same matches

 
Kal El said:
This whole thing is stupid. She beat the boys on their own tees, she wins. Why is this needlessly complex?
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I agree that this story is stupid, but for different reasons than you, I suppose.  Parents and other people that are outraged should channel their efforts to simply have the rules changed.  They (and the girl that won) knew the rules going in.  If they didn't, then why all the outrage?  Be mad at the system and get it changed.

They should just do away with separate boys and girls divisions if everyone is so upset.  But then you'll have outrage over the fact that maybe they rest of the girls can't complete as well against the boys.  So that's not fair either.  Can't make everyone happy.  

Rules are rules.  Don't like them?  Change them.  But for this occasion, they have to enforce the rules.  

That said, if I'm the kid who won the trophy as Champion, I would give it to the girl who won.  Maybe that has crossed the father's mind as well.  

Yes, stupid story.  But in this day and time if a lot of people aren't outraged over something this morning, then the sun didn't come up.

 
Jayrok said:
I agree that this story is stupid, but for different reasons than you, I suppose.  Parents and other people that are outraged should channel their efforts to simply have the rules changed.  They (and the girl that won) knew the rules going in.  If they didn't, then why all the outrage?  Be mad at the system and get it changed.

They should just do away with separate boys and girls divisions if everyone is so upset.  But then you'll have outrage over the fact that maybe they rest of the girls can't complete as well against the boys.  So that's not fair either.  Can't make everyone happy.  

Rules are rules.  Don't like them?  Change them.  But for this occasion, they have to enforce the rules.  

That said, if I'm the kid who won the trophy as Champion, I would give it to the girl who won.  Maybe that has crossed the father's mind as well.  

Yes, stupid story.  But in this day and time if a lot of people aren't outraged over something this morning, then the sun didn't come up.
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The kid offered her the trophy but she refused it according to the story

 
belljr said:
The kid offered her the trophy but she refused it according to the story
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Good for the kid.  And she may not be upset at all over this.  75 is very impression for anyone not on any type of pro tour, let alone high school.  

 
Jayrok said:
Good for the kid.  And she may not be upset at all over this.  75 is very impression for anyone not on any type of pro tour, let alone high school.  
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Agree but the article did say she was very upset as the reason for not taking it :shrug:

 
I assume she knew the rules going into it.  They set up the rules which seemed reasonable.  Why give a girl two chances at competing for an individual state championship seems like fair logic.  They allowed her to compete at the team level with the boys and will get to compete as an individual with the girls.  The result seems unfair but it does not diminish her accomplishment.  They should address this next year though.  

 
belljr said:
Mr. Ected said:
I read about this yesterday, she is on the boys team and allowed to compete in Boys Team events, but not Boys Individual. Seems odd.

Also this may just be me but (ignoring the fact that the rule is stupid and should be changed) if it was against the rules for her to win, why did they let her compete in the first place?
Click to expand...
Because in golf most of the time the team events and individual are the same matches
Click to expand...
This read like it was a separate event. I'll have to check.

 
Is there some catch as to why she couldn't play in the girls individual tournament because her school didn't have a team to send her with?  

If she was able to participate in the girls tournament, and did so, then I don't get the issue.  There is a girls tournament and a boys tournament, she can win the girls tournament but not the boys, but she can play in the boys team tournament because she doesn't have a girls team to play on.  I don't get what there is to complain about.

 
Mr. Ected said:
This read like it was a separate event. I'll have to check.
Click to expand...
According to a story in the Worcester Telegram, it seems even Riordan himself recognized the absurdity of the rule, which will also keep Nash out of next week's state tournament at Wyantenuck CC in Great Barrington as an individual (her team did not qualify based on its combined total at Blissful Meadows).

 
The event she just played in was Blissful Meadows

So if I understand.

If she was a boy her team did not advance but she would then move on to the state as an individual

 
belljr said:
Mr. Ected said:
This read like it was a separate event. I'll have to check.
Click to expand...
According to a story in the Worcester Telegram, it seems even Riordan himself recognized the absurdity of the rule, which will also keep Nash out of next week's state tournament at Wyantenuck CC in Great Barrington as an individual (her team did not qualify based on its combined total at Blissful Meadows).
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It's enough to say that it is happening in MA. The laws and rules there have been so old timing which seems very odd considering how left-leaning the state is. When I was growing up there (70s-80s), stores couldn't be open on Sundays. That slowly changed in the 80s (first it had to be past 12, so people could go to church) except alcohol. And even that up until 2014 could only be sold after noon; now it is 10am!

 
AAABatteries said:
If I were her I wouldn't even care about be declared the "winner" - she knows and the boys she competed against know that she beat them.  That would be the only part I would care about - 20/30 years from now no one will care about who won that tournament but she'll be able to recall how she beat all the guys.

As for what they should do - they should have followed their rule and it sounds like they did.  If enough people think the rule is dumb then work to get the rule changed before the next tournament/season.
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agreed.  The satisfaction for the girl should come from whipping the boys (metaphorically).  Making a special trophy for her will make the parents feel better (shouldn't, but still), but athletes know what matters. 

 
Change the rules next year so that there is a boy's champion trophy and an overall trophy that would be given out only in years that a non-boy (girl, boy identifying as a girl, or girl who used to be a boy) happens to win the tournament. That will only happen probably every 10 years or so, so very little additional cost for the extra trophy.

 
This is going to sound weird, but I grew up a stone's throw from Western MA. Literally on the border. There were guys going out for field hockey in the early nineties. This might be a remnant of that. It was big news. 

And when I start threads, y'all best pay attention.  

https://youtu.be/-2Pq2cCVLpQ (NSFW cover) 

eta* They were so quiet about it.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can't wait for 10 years from now when the Agender/non-binary/genderless train gets rolling. All Hell's gonna break loose

 
Dickie Dunn said:
Huge controversy brewing over the last couple of days here in Massachusetts, where a female golfer shot the lowest score in a sectional tournament. But according to state association rules, she was not declared the medalist.

Link

Some bullet points:

  • She plays on a boys team, because her school does not have a separate girls team (this is not unusual in Massachusetts) ... she hits from the same tees as the boys
  • Her score counted toward her team's score, but her team did not qualify for next week's state tournament
  • State association rules stipulate that while girls are allowed to play on a boys team, they can only qualify as individuals for the separate girls tournament (girls golf is held in the spring in Massachusetts)
  • She did play in the girls individual tournament in June
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The rules seem pretty accomodating to me. Like each boy, she's allowed to play in one team competition and one individual competition. 

It would be cool, though, if she could choose to pass up eligibility in the girls' individual in order to play against the boys (obviously choosing before the competition, not only once she won).

 
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