Thorn
Footballguy
Looks like I'll be going Sunday & Monday for about 36 hours of casino time. I don't think I've ever been in a casino more than a couple hours at once.
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GM's thread about nothing (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter General Malaise
- Start date
Marvin
Footballguy
From what I've read it isn't a good idea. Don't ask me to explain it...I'm terrible at odds and stuff.
this is pretty standard.I'd ask kevzilla for blackjack tips if you're serious.ETA:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-rules.php
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Corky
Footballguy
I always take even money.
Thorn
Footballguy
I'm serious inasmuch as I would like to make it through a day and a half in a casino without spending way too much money. I thought I knew how to play blackjack but I never even heard of this option.
General Malaise
Footballguy
you've never heard of insurance?see the info I edited into my earlier post above.
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Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Pai Gow is a great way to kill casino time and acquire free drinks without denting the wallet too badlyYou play two hands per round, and you only lose if you lose both...there are a ton of pushes
General Malaise
Footballguy
I'm not a serious player, but the rule of thumb as I understand it is to avoid insurance and never take even money. What are the minimums at Foxwood?
Corky
Footballguy
I never buy insurance unless I have a 10 up and I've seen a lot of low cards.I always take even money.
a lot of people play this way, but it's the same exact bet/concept.
Corky
Footballguy
Disagree. If you're sitting on a 4, you still have to beat the dealer even if he doesn't have the blackjack. Never re-invest in a bad hand. If I'm sitting on 20, I'm willing to take the risk...As for even money. I'd rather take $25 on my $25 bet, than risk losing it for the extra $12.50. That may not bear out over time, but I'm not playing an infinite time.
Marvin
Footballguy
the point of insurance is to bet on the dealer having a 10 underneath their ace. if they have a 10, you win the insurance bet. if they don't have a 10, you lose the insurance bet.you're doing the exact same thing with an even money bet.If you pass on even money, outcomes are
ealer has a 10: PushDealer doesn't have a 10: Win 1.5x your betIf you take even money, outcomes areealer has a 10: Push on blackjack, but win 2:1 on your insurance bet. Even moneyDealer doesn't have a 10: Win your blackjack hand for 1.5x the bet but lose the insurance bet. Even money.
Thorn
Footballguy
I've heard of insurance, not exactly the same thing.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Would it be good shtick to dress up like The Count from Sesame Street and go sit down at a blackjack table?
General Malaise
Footballguy
I haven't seen the original Bad News Bears in years. I know it has some pretty strong language/ethnic slurs, but other than that, any issues with showing it to my kids? I have no interest in the re-make....
http://casino.pokernews.com/news/2008/3/blackjack-insurance-even-money.htm
When the dealer has an Ace, players have the option of making an Insurance bet. This wager wins when the dealer makes blackjack, and loses on any other non-picture card. Most players know this wager is not a very good one, with a house edge of around 8%.
When a player has Blackjack and the dealer has an Ace, players have the option of taking Even Money for their hand, instead of 3:2 if the dealer doesn't get blackjack or pushing if the dealer does get blackjack.
The two bets are actually identical. Taking Even Money is exactly like making an Insurance bet on your blackjack hand. Let's assume you could place an Insurance bet on your $100 blackjack hand. You'd place $50 on the Insurance line and the dealer does not get blackjack - he'll take your $50 and pay you $150 for your blackjack hand, for a net profit of $100 for you. If the dealer does get blackjack, you'll receive nothing for your blackjack hand, but you'll get paid $100 profit for your Insurance bet. If you take Even Money, you get $100 for your blackjack hand.
As you can see, if you take Even Money or Insurance, you end up with a $100 profit no matter what happens. However, both bets are bad wagers, as you'll end up with more in the long run if you never take the option to Insure or take Even Money. In the long run, the Dealer won't get blackjack enough to make either bet a good bet.
Taking Even Money and making Insurance bets are bad strategy and you should always decline these options when offered to you.
When a player has Blackjack and the dealer has an Ace, players have the option of taking Even Money for their hand, instead of 3:2 if the dealer doesn't get blackjack or pushing if the dealer does get blackjack.
The two bets are actually identical. Taking Even Money is exactly like making an Insurance bet on your blackjack hand. Let's assume you could place an Insurance bet on your $100 blackjack hand. You'd place $50 on the Insurance line and the dealer does not get blackjack - he'll take your $50 and pay you $150 for your blackjack hand, for a net profit of $100 for you. If the dealer does get blackjack, you'll receive nothing for your blackjack hand, but you'll get paid $100 profit for your Insurance bet. If you take Even Money, you get $100 for your blackjack hand.
As you can see, if you take Even Money or Insurance, you end up with a $100 profit no matter what happens. However, both bets are bad wagers, as you'll end up with more in the long run if you never take the option to Insure or take Even Money. In the long run, the Dealer won't get blackjack enough to make either bet a good bet.
Taking Even Money and making Insurance bets are bad strategy and you should always decline these options when offered to you.
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Thorn
Footballguy
Interesting.
Thorn
Footballguy
http://renzey.casinocitytimes.com/article/insurance-and-even-money-are-both-bad-blackjack-bets-1045
For Corky:
For Corky:
Probably three out of four blackjack players insure their 20s against an ace up--a costly mistake. Worse yet, about nine players out of ten take even money on their blackjacks when the dealer shows an ace--another money waster. Just what's wrong with these popular moves?
Let's look at the easiest hand first. You're dealt a pat 20 and the dealer has an ace up. The dealer asks, "Insurance anyone?" You think to yourself, "Hmm, I've got this nice hand and if she has a 10 underneath, I'm dead. But if I insure it and she has blackjack, I push. If she doesn't have blackjack, my 20 is probably a winner. So I'll take Insurance." That may sound logical, but there's a serious flaw in your reasoning. To clearly illustrate where that flaw lies, let's say you were playing not just one hand, but both hands shown below for $10 apiece:
Dealer
A
Hand #2 Hand #1
10/7 10/10
Now you have four choices. You could:
Take insurance on your 20 and leave your 17 alone.
Leave your 20 alone and take insurance on your 17.
Insure both hands.
Ignore the insurance option altogether.
If you're like most players, you'll take option "A." But what have you really accomplished? Let's see. When you put up that extra $5 to insure your 20, if the dealer has blackjack you'll push on your 20 and lose $10 on your 17, finishing $10 behind.
But now let's try something that looks really stupid. Let's take option "B." You'll lose $10 on your 20 to the dealer's blackjack and push on your 17 for the exact same result. Surprised? Well, that's not all.
What happens with options "A" and "B" when the dealer doesn't have blackjack and busts? You'll win $15 either way, won't you? Surprised again? Let's keep going.
Now, what if the dealer has, say, 18? With option "A," you make a $5 profit on your 20 and lose $10 on your 17, for a $5 combined loss. But wait. With option "B," you lose $15 on your 17 and win $10 on your 20 for the same $5 net loss. This is getting spooky.
And what if the dealer makes something like a five-card 21? You'll lose $25 with "A" or "B." Incredible. How can both options keep working out the same as each other? It's that flaw in your logic. You see, when you take insurance, you're not betting on your hand at all--you're betting strictly on the dealer's hand! Your hand has nothing to do with it.
If betting that the dealer has blackjack is a good bet, then you should take that bet. The problem is, it's only a good bet 8% of the time--those times when so many small cards have come out that insurance will now show a profit all by itself. If you don't know that now is that time, insurance is a sucker bet no matter what hand you have. That's why option "D" is the way to go.
It's the same story when you have blackjack. That's because accepting even money on blackjack against an ace up amounts to simply taking insurance. You'll either win $10 on your insurance bet and push the hand, or lose $5 on insurance and win $15 on your blackjack--netting $10 either way. That's why the house cuts through the red tape and just pays you even money whenever you're dumb enough to accept it. Understand that, on average, the dealer will have a 10 under her ace only 4 times out of 13. If you just tough it out, you'll win $15 nine times and push the other four, averaging $10.38 per blackjack instead of $10.
Let's look at the easiest hand first. You're dealt a pat 20 and the dealer has an ace up. The dealer asks, "Insurance anyone?" You think to yourself, "Hmm, I've got this nice hand and if she has a 10 underneath, I'm dead. But if I insure it and she has blackjack, I push. If she doesn't have blackjack, my 20 is probably a winner. So I'll take Insurance." That may sound logical, but there's a serious flaw in your reasoning. To clearly illustrate where that flaw lies, let's say you were playing not just one hand, but both hands shown below for $10 apiece:
Dealer
A
Hand #2 Hand #1
10/7 10/10
Now you have four choices. You could:
Take insurance on your 20 and leave your 17 alone.
Leave your 20 alone and take insurance on your 17.
Insure both hands.
Ignore the insurance option altogether.
If you're like most players, you'll take option "A." But what have you really accomplished? Let's see. When you put up that extra $5 to insure your 20, if the dealer has blackjack you'll push on your 20 and lose $10 on your 17, finishing $10 behind.
But now let's try something that looks really stupid. Let's take option "B." You'll lose $10 on your 20 to the dealer's blackjack and push on your 17 for the exact same result. Surprised? Well, that's not all.
What happens with options "A" and "B" when the dealer doesn't have blackjack and busts? You'll win $15 either way, won't you? Surprised again? Let's keep going.
Now, what if the dealer has, say, 18? With option "A," you make a $5 profit on your 20 and lose $10 on your 17, for a $5 combined loss. But wait. With option "B," you lose $15 on your 17 and win $10 on your 20 for the same $5 net loss. This is getting spooky.
And what if the dealer makes something like a five-card 21? You'll lose $25 with "A" or "B." Incredible. How can both options keep working out the same as each other? It's that flaw in your logic. You see, when you take insurance, you're not betting on your hand at all--you're betting strictly on the dealer's hand! Your hand has nothing to do with it.
If betting that the dealer has blackjack is a good bet, then you should take that bet. The problem is, it's only a good bet 8% of the time--those times when so many small cards have come out that insurance will now show a profit all by itself. If you don't know that now is that time, insurance is a sucker bet no matter what hand you have. That's why option "D" is the way to go.
It's the same story when you have blackjack. That's because accepting even money on blackjack against an ace up amounts to simply taking insurance. You'll either win $10 on your insurance bet and push the hand, or lose $5 on insurance and win $15 on your blackjack--netting $10 either way. That's why the house cuts through the red tape and just pays you even money whenever you're dumb enough to accept it. Understand that, on average, the dealer will have a 10 under her ace only 4 times out of 13. If you just tough it out, you'll win $15 nine times and push the other four, averaging $10.38 per blackjack instead of $10.
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Sarnoff
Footballguy
Corky
Footballguy
I misunderstood your "its the same bet" comment.I thought you were saying that it is equally wise/unwise whether you have 21, 20 or 14
General Malaise
Footballguy
That's exactly what I'm saying.
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Corky
Footballguy
I'm not playing long enough for that extra .38 to make a difference. So I'm taking money in my pocket.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Marvin
Footballguy
How old are your kids again? I saw the original when I was like 9 years old. Look how I turned out.
Corky
Footballguy
I'm not playing long enough for that extra .38 to make a difference. So I'm taking money in my pocket.Also, this ignores any loose definition of 'counting' on my part. Again, I only take insurance on 20 if we've seen a run of low cards, thereby increasing odds of the 10 down.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
:spittake:
agreed that can shifts the odds in your favor and make it a better bet.my only point is that even money and insurance are the same exact bet.by your logic, if you've seen a run of low cards, you should still take insurance regardless of how strong your hand is. it's an independent sidebet. dealer has BJ, you win the side bet. dealer doesn't have BJ, you lose the sidebet.
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shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Bad bet.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
This is like when homer j started texting about how to initiate backdoor. lol
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Then stick to craps, video poker, and 1-2 NL hold 'em.
Thorn
Footballguy
Actually I think you are saying (or quoting people who are saying) two things:1. Insurance is always a bad bet unless you are a card counter and know that there are a lot more facecards than small cards left.2. "Even Money" is effectively insurance when you, the player, have a blackjack.Which make sense to me. Just never heard insuring your own blackjack as "even money" before.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
[dentist]fixed[/dentist]
yeah i remember there was a thread on this once...i need to look it up again before i go to vegas
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Love pai gow. Even better if you can bet the bonus...you stay there long enough and you'll get a four of a kind or straight flush.
Marvin
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
How many of these do you go through in a day before you find one that's "postworthy"?
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Marvin
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
My "record" for finding golf balls on my walk until this morning is 2. Considering I only walk by two holes and there is a lot of traffic, not bad. Today I noticed what appeared to be primarily a women's tournament going on. I found 7 balls today including 3 Pro V1's. 
Another fun extra when playing Pai Gow, is the ability to scream "PAI GOW!" with an Asian accent. It's more fun than it sounds.
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