GM's thread about nothing (35 Viewers)

[Bob Sacamano]

Can I get a little input on my thing above? Since all of you are so smart?

I'm not an expert in your field, and I'd think you'd generally want advice from someone with more knowledge of your specific situation. That said...Standard approach is generally to get them to provide you with a number. You usually want them to make an offer rather than making a proposal yourself. That tells you what their floor is, and you can usually negotiate up from there. Otherwise you risk undervaluing yourself. Or pricing yourself out. Can you get them to make you an offer rather than going to them with demands?

If not, start higher than you think you should and let them counter you. But have a basis for the number you offer. As long as you can justify it, they shouldn't laugh you out of the room. If they completely walk away because they think you want too much, then they weren't that interested in the first place. And it sounds like you have options. Price yourself accordingly. And don't be afraid to let them know you're exploring other options. Without being douchey. Subtlety is your friend here.

What you laid out seems to make some sense, though it seems like you may be shortchanging yourself on the front-end. If they don't have to pay you benefits for at least the first 3 months, you should be reflecting that in your salary. But I would think $60-85 WITH benefits should probably grade near $90-120 WITHOUT benefits. If you cut back from F-T to P-T, kick it up to $8k to start and let them tell you if you're crazy imo. They're only going to come down from your $7k number. Maybe you end up with more.

But, again, be able to justify what you're asking. Go through the specifics of recent jobs you've investigated and show the math that got you to your numbers. If you can come up with comparable job information/standard industry information to back you up, all the better. If you show that there's a basis for what you've laid out and you don't simply have an inflated opinion of your self-worth, then they should be able to demonstrate to you why they're coming in with the number they are. At that point, you've got something from which to negotiate. I'd rather have someone who has a healthy opinion of his value than someone who undervalues himself, even if those people can be a pain in the ### come comp time.

 

[Abraham]

I would seriously look into the Dell thing. Another part of the equation which you didn't mention (but may be taking into account) is that Dell will look good on your resume', given that it probably won't be the last stop on your resume.Small companies are always tricky. Little currents or gusts here or there, and things can go off track almost as easily as they can with a solo business. Of course, Dell is probably gonna be there if the small company thing doesn't work out. But going 1099 sounds pretty scary. I dunno, I've never really had the ambition to run my own shop, so I discount the ability to keep your own business going. My best piece of advice is to always take into account the chance that any sales/commission job is not going to be as-advertised. Frequently they aren't.

I've already worked at dell once. Yes, much more stable but there is serious limit on upside. Moving up the ranks there is tough. I didn't dislike it though. The small shop isn't looking to fill a position. They are looking to add me, specifically. When they heard I might be looking for something they quickly reached out. I must have made an impression. Honestly, it will probably come down to money. If I can get them to ante up enough relative to the time I will invest then I will do it. Even if they say "we can't afford you but wil pay you a couple grand a month as a consultant" I'd still do it. I love technology and really do want some real experience on cloud services since I think we are all headed that way quickly.

 

[Abraham]

Thanks bob and judge. Good info.

 

[Bogart]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

 

[Good Posting Judge]

ante up

 

[T Bell]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

Does she have hard nipples?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

lol

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Friggin' 27 year olds.

and WTMF is up with all of the people down south wanting to be virgins until they get married? I guess it explains some of Kentucky though.

Not even remotely true. They all say it, but in my experience never followed through on it. GB alcohol.

In high school, sure. 27? She's in for the long haul. If only she wrote a poem so I could be sure.

Yes, at 27 too... Things are different in the south. Besides, if they give it up due to alcohol, I guess they can still go back to the born again virginity crap (actually true).

Man I could really use a hot 27 year old southern "virgin" broad.

Thanks bob and judge. Good info.

You're welcome.

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?

Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

Her email addy is frosty.<lastname>@<majorcorporation>.comSo this isn't just a nickname.

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?

Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

Does she have hard nipples?Haven't met her and probably never will. She lives in a major southern Confederate city though so I'm guessing not.

 

[T Bell]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

Spoiler

Does she have hard nipples?

Haven't met her and probably never will. She lives in a major southern Confederate city though so I'm guessing not.If she lives in Frostproof, FL it might cancel out the effect.

 

[Hawks64]

At a continuing ed seminar and some kid who must have just passed the bar keeps interrupting to tell stories about when he was a summer associate at some big firm no ones ever heard of. 1000x worse than a deposition.

Woz?

 

[Bogart]

Dinner with the kids. Blake has read a different book each day of Spring Break so far. 200-225 pages each. He was giving me a countdown of his last 10 pages of the book, getting more excited with each page.

Proud Dad.

 

[Abraham]

Dinner with the kids. Blake has read a different book each day of Spring Break so far. 200-225 pages each. He was giving me a countdown of his last 10 pages of the book, getting more excited with each page. Proud Dad.

So, I'm guessing he's the kid that ruins the curve for the other kids?

 

[Bogart]

Dinner with the kids. Blake has read a different book each day of Spring Break so far. 200-225 pages each. He was giving me a countdown of his last 10 pages of the book, getting more excited with each page. Proud Dad.

So, I'm guessing he's the kid that ruins the curve for the other kids?

Actually high Bs to low As. He daydreams and socializes a little too much to destroy the curve. And I have no problem with that. He's already more well rounded than I ever was.

 

[Gadzooks]

Boobies

 

[Guster]

Boobies

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'll take Psycho Poet's number if Zooks is busy networking and ####.

Hey, at least she's a reader. Sort of.

 

[guru_007]

I would seriously look into the Dell thing. Another part of the equation which you didn't mention (but may be taking into account) is that Dell will look good on your resume', given that it probably won't be the last stop on your resume.Small companies are always tricky. Little currents or gusts here or there, and things can go off track almost as easily as they can with a solo business. Of course, Dell is probably gonna be there if the small company thing doesn't work out. But going 1099 sounds pretty scary. I dunno, I've never really had the ambition to run my own shop, so I discount the ability to keep your own business going. My best piece of advice is to always take into account the chance that any sales/commission job is not going to be as-advertised. Frequently they aren't.

Some thoughtsI haven't followed the Dell saga all that closely, but with all the talk of buyouts going on I would be extremely hesitant to jump on board. Even if your friend is a top salesman, when shake ups happen, all kinds of things happen and people move around. You may be just getting your feet wet and then have your whole world thrown upside down again, and being that this would be a more permanent position, the business you've been trying to grow may have been neglected and/or lost/dminished.It's certainly true that small companies are risky. Without knowing more of the particulars, it's all about feel. How are their cash flows. Sales. Revenues/profits. How strong a degree of trust do you feel with the President/owner(s). There are a ton of things to really look at, and they are probably not going to just open their books to you before signing on and showing you how well they are seriously doing. All that being said, I jumped to a small company 12 years ago - real small company. I had a new marriage, two very young children, different state, all kinds of weird things going on. But, it was the best decision for me at the time. I was being brought on as a key employee, and saw the books, saw the prospects, saw the good, the bad and the ugly. Yeah, it was very risky, the pay wasn't as great at first as it could have been....but the opportunity was fantastic, and I knew in my heart that I could make this company grow into something much bigger/better. About 6 months after uprooting my family, buying a house and get going, our largest client which accounted for 70% of sales declared bankruptcy. Those were very anxious times. I don't have any magical advice for Abe, other than you really need to go with your heart and your feel. And hell, ask your wife for advice/support. I'd probably opt for the more solid opportunity with benefits for the moment and then look around for something more appealing, but that's because I'm older now, and more risk adverse. I do like small companies and I can definitely see their appeal (for me the worst thing about bigger companies is office politicking, and rumors/noone really know what is going on sometimes), but Abe seems more entrepreneurial than a small business sales person - I think he'd find himself not liking building someone elses business to something great without getting what he feels is equal compensation. At larger companies, top sales people can be treated very well - and sometimes all you need is your foot in the door, or a few key contacts. that's all I've got. g'luck

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

ante up

Still rules to infinity

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

The other day I discovered the name of one of my student's mother. The kid and the mom have different last names.I'm going to try to disguise it so that it never shows up on a google searchFirst name:

Spoiler

M*I*S*T*Y

Last name

Spoiler

D*O*N*G

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Shouldn't Abe do the opposite of what Abe thinks he should do? #bourbon

 

[Abraham]

I would seriously look into the Dell thing. Another part of the equation which you didn't mention (but may be taking into account) is that Dell will look good on your resume', given that it probably won't be the last stop on your resume.Small companies are always tricky. Little currents or gusts here or there, and things can go off track almost as easily as they can with a solo business. Of course, Dell is probably gonna be there if the small company thing doesn't work out. But going 1099 sounds pretty scary. I dunno, I've never really had the ambition to run my own shop, so I discount the ability to keep your own business going. My best piece of advice is to always take into account the chance that any sales/commission job is not going to be as-advertised. Frequently they aren't.

Some thoughtsI haven't followed the Dell saga all that closely, but with all the talk of buyouts going on I would be extremely hesitant to jump on board. Even if your friend is a top salesman, when shake ups happen, all kinds of things happen and people move around. You may be just getting your feet wet and then have your whole world thrown upside down again, and being that this would be a more permanent position, the business you've been trying to grow may have been neglected and/or lost/dminished.It's certainly true that small companies are risky. Without knowing more of the particulars, it's all about feel. How are their cash flows. Sales. Revenues/profits. How strong a degree of trust do you feel with the President/owner(s). There are a ton of things to really look at, and they are probably not going to just open their books to you before signing on and showing you how well they are seriously doing. All that being said, I jumped to a small company 12 years ago - real small company. I had a new marriage, two very young children, different state, all kinds of weird things going on. But, it was the best decision for me at the time. I was being brought on as a key employee, and saw the books, saw the prospects, saw the good, the bad and the ugly. Yeah, it was very risky, the pay wasn't as great at first as it could have been....but the opportunity was fantastic, and I knew in my heart that I could make this company grow into something much bigger/better. About 6 months after uprooting my family, buying a house and get going, our largest client which accounted for 70% of sales declared bankruptcy. Those were very anxious times. I don't have any magical advice for Abe, other than you really need to go with your heart and your feel. And hell, ask your wife for advice/support. I'd probably opt for the more solid opportunity with benefits for the moment and then look around for something more appealing, but that's because I'm older now, and more risk adverse. I do like small companies and I can definitely see their appeal (for me the worst thing about bigger companies is office politicking, and rumors/noone really know what is going on sometimes), but Abe seems more entrepreneurial than a small business sales person - I think he'd find himself not liking building someone elses business to something great without getting what he feels is equal compensation. At larger companies, top sales people can be treated very well - and sometimes all you need is your foot in the door, or a few key contacts. that's all I've got. g'luck

Thanks. I've known the owner for about 6 years. The business is 10 years old and is monthly subscriptions on three year annual contracts. So it isn't like one-shot sales; close a customer and they are locked in for three years of monthly payments. It's healthy that way although I will certainly want some numbers to work with as I would probably be responsible for maintaining existing accounts to some degree and it would be nice to know how many there are. I am entrepreneurial at heart but wouldn't mind helping build his business at all. For starters I would make sure I was well compensated if I did a good job. I am interested in the tech knowledge to be gained. And it would allow me the chance to keep helping build the company I founded. And I'm sure I would learn learn a lot working for someone else again - it's been 5 years since I've directly reported to anyone and it can be easy to miss the forest for the trees and vice versa without a superior or mentor. Good advise though. Thank you.

 

[T Bell]

ante up

 

[T Bell]

Oh yeah, I have a new female client. That isn't very interesting you say. Oh no?Her name is:

Spoiler

Frosty

The other day I discovered the name of one of my student's mother. The kid and the mom have different last names.I'm going to try to disguise it so that it never shows up on a google searchFirst name:

Spoiler

M*I*S*T*Y

Last name

Spoiler

D*O*N*G

You HAVE to make sure she's paged at some school event.

 

[Britney Spears]

Clever (PM YSR if you don't get it)

This in Seattle.

 

[krista4]

Don't #### it up.

####### Homer. Judging by the number of times I heard "You put it perfectly when you said '(blahblahsomethingisaid),' it went well. The only one I was less sure of was a guy who had this big damn something on his face...couldn't tell if it was an infection or more of a permanent birthmark, but I kept thinking I needed to ignore it but oh my god what is that ####### thing on his face??? That threw me off my game a little.

Used Tanner shtick when someone mentioned in a meeting that we're working for the weekend. "Oh yeah, Huey Lewis!"

Of course nobody gets it when it is pulled in real life.

I had to go to a going away dinner for a shlub last night with a bunch of other shlubs, and at some point someone was trying to remember the name of "that Tom Cruise movie where they could see that crimes would happen before they did" and I exclaimed, "Oh yeah! Risky Business!" Blank stares all around.

She's remaining a virgin due to religion, I think. That's part of the whole shame spiral thing - she gets very caught up in her sin. For instance, an email I got last week:

I am by nature NOT a repenter. I want to be. I strive to be. But the truth is, my sin keeps coming to get me. I don't keep it out. I go to the store, purchase it, and call it a kitten, when really it is a hungry, full grown lioness with babies at home and I am the only living thing in the house. I pet my sin and believe that it loves me and that it will make me happy and while I think it is licking my hand out of affection, in reality, she is just playing with her food before she eats it. I am a fool.

Given that we don't have Knuckles or Destiney any more, I welcome the arrival of Non-Reader and Sinful Lioness or Kitten But NOT a Repenter.

 

[krista4]

Got a formal offer today from one of the firms I've been talking to. Not overwhelmed. The other firm contacted me half an hour later, and although they didn't make me a formal offer, described the compensation package that they expected to offer within a week. It's much better.Only problem is I'd have to commute to Seattle or move, which is sort of a big deal since my daughter is here. In traffic, it's about an hour and a half each way from here. I guess I can move somewhere in the middle, but the places in the middle pretty much suck.

Congrats!!!

 

[Frostillicus]

Spent a couple hours in the studio this morning.

It started off terrible. Just couldn't do anything right.

I was ready to toss the Frosti page in the trash and just start over.

Last 30 minutes made things go from a disaster to average/ A bit less than average.

New image is the third one in the portfolio.

Nice Guy Frosti

It's awesome.

Showed it to my wife. She said it was awesome but that "it looks like he's trying to be nice and make your face look less fat."

 

[Abraham]

Well Guster stood me up, so I'm back at the office.

What do you design GB?

Odd. Hope he is okay. Gusher seems like the type to take his friendships seriously.

 

[Guster]

Well Guster stood me up, so I'm back at the office.

What do you design GB?

Odd. Hope he is okay. Gusher seems like the type to take his friendships seriously.

Who are you talking to here ETA - we didn't have plans... Shuke texted me from the bar, but I was on the other side of town. He was supposed to text me at 3am, but I never heard back

 

[T Bell]

Clever (PM YSR if you don't get it)

"I came, I saw, I didn't get you pregnant"?

 

[T Bell]

Judging by the number of times I heard "You put it perfectly when you said '(blahblahsomethingisaid),' it went well. The only one I was less sure of was a guy who had this big damn something on his face...couldn't tell if it was an infection or more of a permanent birthmark, but I kept thinking I needed to ignore it but oh my god what is that ####### thing on his face??? That threw me off my game a little.

 

[Abraham]

Well Guster stood me up, so I'm back at the office.

What do you design GB?

Odd. Hope he is okay. Gusher seems like the type to take his friendships seriously.

Who are you talking to here ETA - we didn't have plans... Shuke texted me from the bar, but I was on the other side of town. He was supposed to text me at 3am, but I never heard back

I've been out of te loop a few days. Thought he was posting that you two had plans tonight but you no showed. Carry on..

 

[bentley]

Abe> Are you going to any of the rodeo BBQ cookoff this weekend? If so, hit me up with a text.

K4> What do you think about your company Intranet? I recently ran across an article on it as a "good" social Intranet which is something I'm trying to sell our executives on.

JR has a cold and he's not sleeping well. It's kinda entertaining because he gets mad about being sick. So every once in a while I'll hear him scream out "MY NOSE IS STILL RUNNING!" or "GET OUT OF ME COUGH!" and then he'll go right back to sleep.

 

[Frostillicus]

I am fallin gdown drunk

""edit: f you that was real

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I am fallin gdown drunk""edit: f you that was real

'''''''''''''''''''''''

 

[Britney Spears]

Eastwood>>>>John Wayne

This is very true.

 

[krista4]

Abe> Are you going to any of the rodeo BBQ cookoff this weekend? If so, hit me up with a text.K4> What do you think about your company Intranet? I recently ran across an article on it as a "good" social Intranet which is something I'm trying to sell our executives on.JR has a cold and he's not sleeping well. It's kinda entertaining because he gets mad about being sick. So every once in a while I'll hear him scream out "MY NOSE IS STILL RUNNING!" or "GET OUT OF ME COUGH!" and then he'll go right back to sleep.

What did it say about it? I'd be curious as I've noticed nothing revolutionary, unique or even unusual about it. In terms of a "social" aspect, a couple of years ago they pressed people to join this Yammer site that was supposed to be our work version of Facebook. It was awful, and I don't know anyone outside of Corporate Communications (who set it up) who uses it. So definitely I'd love to see that article--I might be missing something.

 

[krista4]

Guy on one of my flights today gave me his USA Today when my computer died. Front-page article on research done on what people "like" on Facebook (actually true). Loved these bits; sounded like an Onion article:

The study found "likes" that are the "best predictors of high intelligence" included "Thunderstorms," The Colbert Report, "Science" and "Curly Fries". Low intelligence correlated with liking "Sephora," "Harley Davidson" and "Lady Antebellum". Researchers had no explanation why.

The study also found that "good predictors of male homosexuality" included liking "No H8 Campaign," "Mac Cosmetics" and "Wicked The Musical." Strong predictors of male heterosexuality included liking "Wu-Tang Clan," "Shaq" and "Being Confused After Waking Up From Naps."

 

[Good Posting Judge]

What, homos just wake up from naps with all their faculties? Yeah right.

 

[krista4]

What, homos just wake up from naps with all their faculties? Yeah right.

Only one way to find out.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I really love curly fries

 

[Guster]

Guy on one of my flights today gave me his USA Today when my computer died. Front-page article on research done on what people "like" on Facebook (actually true). Loved these bits; sounded like an Onion article:

The study found "likes" that are the "best predictors of high intelligence" included "Thunderstorms," The Colbert Report, "Science" and "Curly Fries". Low intelligence correlated with liking "Sephora," "Harley Davidson" and "Lady Antebellum". Researchers had no explanation why.

The study also found that "good predictors of male homosexuality" included liking "No H8 Campaign," "Mac Cosmetics" and "Wicked The Musical." Strong predictors of male heterosexuality included liking "Wu-Tang Clan," "Shaq" and "Being Confused After Waking Up From Naps."

How many GMTANners just went out and liked thunderstorms, the Colbert report, science and curly fries?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I am fallin gdown drunk""edit: f you that was real

Sure it was.

 

[bentley]

Abe> Are you going to any of the rodeo BBQ cookoff this weekend? If so, hit me up with a text.K4> What do you think about your company Intranet? I recently ran across an article on it as a "good" social Intranet which is something I'm trying to sell our executives on.JR has a cold and he's not sleeping well. It's kinda entertaining because he gets mad about being sick. So every once in a while I'll hear him scream out "MY NOSE IS STILL RUNNING!" or "GET OUT OF ME COUGH!" and then he'll go right back to sleep.

What did it say about it? I'd be curious as I've noticed nothing revolutionary, unique or even unusual about it. In terms of a "social" aspect, a couple of years ago they pressed people to join this Yammer site that was supposed to be our work version of Facebook. It was awful, and I don't know anyone outside of Corporate Communications (who set it up) who uses it. So definitely I'd love to see that article--I might be missing something.

I'm pretty sure it was someone from your Corporate Comuunications dept talking about how great the Yammer site was. So there you go. Thanks.This brings up another annoying point. Every damn MarCom presentation I see or article I read talk about all this research and challenges people overcome to build something but almost nobody presents any data or info showing if it worked.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Guy on one of my flights today gave me his USA Today when my computer died. Front-page article on research done on what people "like" on Facebook (actually true). Loved these bits; sounded like an Onion article:

The study found "likes" that are the "best predictors of high intelligence" included "Cloudy Cold," "Clint Eastwood," "buying third world countries" and "Microbrews". Low intelligence correlated with liking "NASCAR" "not reading" and "Justin Bieber." Researchers had no explanation why.The study also found that "good predictors of male homosexuality" included liking "Ooops, c@ck," "JAA" and ":style:". Strong predictors of male heterosexuality included liking "Fantasy Football," "colon cleansing" and "reckless sex after divorce."

GMTANed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So I'm now officially 40.

 

[Josie Maran]

What, homos just wake up from naps with all their faculties? Yeah right.

Only one way to find out.

Exactly.Truck, you gotta take one in the bung and then go home for a nice nap. If you wake up confused, you know you're still straight.

 

[Abraham]

So I'm now officially 40.

HBGBCC.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What, homos just wake up from naps with all their faculties? Yeah right.

Only one way to find out.

Exactly.Truck, you gotta take one in the bung and then go home for a nice nap. If you wake up confused, you know you're still straight.

Let me know if it works. Considering the amount of $$ I spend on coffee, a little semen instead might be a good savings plan. It'd be tough explaining it to the wife though. "So you know how I've been having trouble finding ways to save for Flaming Bird's college education? Well..."

 

[Abraham]

Abe> Are you going to any of the rodeo BBQ cookoff this weekend? If so, hit me up with a text.

I'll be at the cookoff Saturday night for sure. My brother in law is a competitive cookoff guy and is really good. The company he works for (he's in Ft. Worth) uses his pit for their Austin team. He ends up doing all the work while they get drunk and then they take all the credit. But it's fun. Might go out tomorrow as well but that depends on how the kids are doing. I'll text you Saturday if we go.

Abe> Are you going to any of the rodeo BBQ cookoff this weekend? If so, hit me up with a text.K4> What do you think about your company Intranet? I recently ran across an article on it as a "good" social Intranet which is something I'm trying to sell our executives on.JR has a cold and he's not sleeping well. It's kinda entertaining because he gets mad about being sick. So every once in a while I'll hear him scream out "MY NOSE IS STILL RUNNING!" or "GET OUT OF ME COUGH!" and then he'll go right back to sleep.

What did it say about it? I'd be curious as I've noticed nothing revolutionary, unique or even unusual about it. In terms of a "social" aspect, a couple of years ago they pressed people to join this Yammer site that was supposed to be our work version of Facebook. It was awful, and I don't know anyone outside of Corporate Communications (who set it up) who uses it. So definitely I'd love to see that article--I might be missing something.

Yammer is the suck. So is Chatter. AS Krista said, they are tools favored by people high on the food chain that heard this new thing called "social networking" was cool and got sold on "facebook (Yammer) or Twitter (Chatter) for business!" They are both functional, but you really have to squint to see how they are adding value. Mostly I think social networking tools in businesses are time sinks forced on workers. Someone will get it right eventually, but I haven't seen it yet. It's also funny that Microsoft bought Yammer...