GnR : Appetite For Destruction (1 Viewer)

[Jack Burton]

Ten.

Great album, but not Appetite great.

I like Ten better than AFD.

You're insane.

AFD is bubblegum rock at its worst, Its the LA version of Slippery When Wet. Ten outclasses AFD any day of the week.Pearl Jam are serious muscians. GnR act like little beyotches on the rag. My wife liked GnR... she also liked The Go Go's, Bananarama, and Wham.

 

[TexanFan02]

Ten.

Great album, but not Appetite great.

I like Ten better than AFD.

You're insane.

AFD is bubblegum rock at its worst, Its the LA version of Slippery When Wet. Ten outclasses AFD any day of the week. Pearl Jam are serious muscians. GnR act like little beyotches on the rag. My wife liked GnR... she also liked The Go Go's, Bananarama, and Wham.

The only album I've heard mentioned in this thread that is even close to AFD is Blood Sugar Sex Magik. And AFD is slightly better because it's more compact.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Arright, that was snobby, but the VH album with the saucy name just isn't in the same conversation.

The best songs on Appetite For Destruction are better than the best songs on For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.But the filler on F.U.CarnalKnowledge is better than the filler on AfD.

Out ta Get Me, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy

really only 2 "filler" songs on that album.

Really? Think About You? I LOVE that song. Anything Goes is probably my least favorite tune on the album, but that fact that it's still good is a testament to how great the album is. Think About You is anything but filler, though. Probably has Axl's best singing he ever did on that tune also.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Really? Insane? That's Pearl Jam's "Ten." I could see this comment if I'd said I preferred the Candlebox record, but we're talking about two of the biggest landmark records of the last quarter century. It's a matter of personal taste. Appetite was the soundtrack of my hell-raising days (well, at least the age 16-18 years) but "Ten" was a life-chaning album for me.

By the way, the Black Album is Metallica's 6th or 7th best album (if you count the original Garage Days.) Doesn't compare. This is coming from the guy who at the time was the biggest Metallica fan alive. But RTL/MOP, MOP/AJFA are both much better double-shots than Appetite/Lies.

Yes, Rocket Queen is the best song on the album.

I have no idea who Red Eyed & Blue is, but he knows good music. I like you, RE&B. VH1 is definitely in the conversation. DEFINITELY. And I still love Ice Cream Man. For Unlawful... sucked elephant genitals with the exception of "Poundcake", which rocks.

There are my thoughts on teh thread.

Well said as usual GB. BTW.. you still down in Orlando? Gonna be down there for the annual pilgrimage Jan 23 - Feb 1st for the PGA show again.

If you can break free one night we need to go get a few dozen beers

Very cool - I'd love to do this... we'll talk before then.

 

[cstu]

If you want to leave anything that is considered "punk rock" out, it's hard to make a case for anything being better than Appetite. Certainly nothing that's been mentioned in here yet.

Green Day's Dookie came to mind, but nothing beats AfD.

 

[cstu]

Ten.

Great album, but not Appetite great.

I like Ten better than AFD.

You're insane.

AFD is bubblegum rock at its worst, Its the LA version of Slippery When Wet. Ten outclasses AFD any day of the week.Pearl Jam are serious muscians. GnR act like little beyotches on the rag. My wife liked GnR... she also liked The Go Go's, Bananarama, and Wham.

Dude, how many more chicks were into PJ than GNR? Basically once they were out of their NKOTB phase it was onto PJ.

 

[Thunderlips]

Ten is better. AFD is very,very good.....but IMO Sweet Child of Mine takes away from it. Maybe because it still gets so much radio play.

 

[[icon]]

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Besides, I have never thought GnR was that great (one of the most overrated bands ever), and while AFD is a good record, I think it is highly overrated. It is one of those albums that casual music fans eat up, but hardcore music fans seldom rate too highly. I hope that didn't sound elitist.

Also, since you asked to list at least one album since that is better, I will go with an obvious choice, and one that many probably are familiar with:

Radiohead - OK Computer

While you were busy making two trips to load your music ego into the door you missed a key component to the debate that was in the header as well as the first post. I love Radiohead. Have seen them several times live. Own everything that they released and while I agree OK Computer is a phenomenal album (though IMO Overrated and not their best), I must say it is in no way shape or form a ROCK album.

Please try again.

We're talking about albums that capture the essence of Rock & Roll.... that drug addled, balls to the wall, falling apart at the seams essence that GnR captured perfectly.

 

[[icon]]

Ten is better. AFD is very,very good.....but IMO Sweet Child of Mine takes away from it. Maybe because it still gets so much radio play.

I love Pearl Jam and do consider Ten a superior record (though not a superior flat out "Rock" record).... but I don't know how you can throw radio play in as a neg on SCoM when Jeremy was played every 25 minutes for about 3 years straight. damn near ruined that song for me. Had they not been my favorite band for the last 20 years I'd say it very well might have ruined it altogether.

 

[[icon]]

Modest Mouse -- Lonesome Crowded West

Good disc... not really "rock n roll" album though.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Arright, that was snobby, but the VH album with the saucy name just isn't in the same conversation.

The best songs on Appetite For Destruction are better than the best songs on For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.But the filler on F.U.CarnalKnowledge is better than the filler on AfD.

Out ta Get Me, Think About You, Anything Goes, You're Crazy

really only 2 "filler" songs on that album.

Really? Think About You? I LOVE that song. Anything Goes is probably my least favorite tune on the album, but that fact that it's still good is a testament to how great the album is. Think About You is anything but filler, though. Probably has Axl's best singing he ever did on that tune also.

I like them both, but I think they stick out a bit among the rest. The groove on Anything Goes is very cool, but it just doesn't seem to jive with the rest. Theme, lyrics, just the overall sound of them.

 

[Gordo]

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Besides, I have never thought GnR was that great (one of the most overrated bands ever), and while AFD is a good record, I think it is highly overrated. It is one of those albums that casual music fans eat up, but hardcore music fans seldom rate too highly. I hope that didn't sound elitist.

Also, since you asked to list at least one album since that is better, I will go with an obvious choice, and one that many probably are familiar with:

Radiohead - OK Computer

While you were busy making two trips to load your music ego into the door you missed a key component to the debate that was in the header as well as the first post. I love Radiohead. Have seen them several times live. Own everything that they released and while I agree OK Computer is a phenomenal album (though IMO Overrated and not their best), I must say it is in no way shape or form a ROCK album.

Please try again.

We're talking about albums that capture the essence of Rock & Roll.... that drug addled, balls to the wall, falling apart at the seams essence that GnR captured perfectly.

Don't bother him with such trivialities. He's hardcore, he listens to a crapload.

 

[Your Mother]

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Can you be troubled to educate us unwashed, ignorant masses with a few of these 100? Thx.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Besides, I have never thought GnR was that great (one of the most overrated bands ever), and while AFD is a good record, I think it is highly overrated. It is one of those albums that casual music fans eat up, but hardcore music fans seldom rate too highly. I hope that didn't sound elitist.

Also, since you asked to list at least one album since that is better, I will go with an obvious choice, and one that many probably are familiar with:

Radiohead - OK Computer

While you were busy making two trips to load your music ego into the door you missed a key component to the debate that was in the header as well as the first post. I love Radiohead. Have seen them several times live. Own everything that they released and while I agree OK Computer is a phenomenal album (though IMO Overrated and not their best), I must say it is in no way shape or form a ROCK album.

Please try again.

We're talking about albums that capture the essence of Rock & Roll.... that drug addled, balls to the wall, falling apart at the seams essence that GnR captured perfectly.

Okay, my bad. How about I start with The Colour and the Shape by Foo Fighters? That is pure straight ahead rock and roll.

Don't bother him with such trivialities. He's hardcore, he listens to a crapload.

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Can you be troubled to educate us unwashed, ignorant masses with a few of these 100? Thx.

Why? So everyone can disagree and continue blowing Guns N' Roses left and right? Nah. Besides, most of them admittedly would not fall under the "straight ahead rock and roll" banner that [icon] is looking for. If you persist, I can make you a nice little list, but I really do not want to derail this thread.

 

[Disco Stu]

We're talking about albums that capture the essence of Rock & Roll.... that drug addled, balls to the wall, falling apart at the seams essence that GnR captured perfectly.

In this case, the answer is clearly no. There hasn't been a better such album since AFD. The window of opportunity was pretty small though, since Nirvana and Pearl Jam basically killed that type of music a few years later.

 

[[icon]]

Okay, my bad. How about I start with The Colour and the Shape by Foo Fighters? That is pure straight ahead rock and roll.

--

Why? So everyone can disagree and continue blowing Guns N' Roses left and right? Nah. Besides, most of them admittedly would not fall under the "straight ahead rock and roll" banner that Otis is looking for. If you persist, I can make you a nice little list, but I really do not want to derail this thread.

Foo Fighters are good. That's a pretty good album. Not sure it's on par but it's damn good. saw Foo Fighters years ago as well... front Row GA... Grohl jumped into the bouncer pit and played a song right in front of us. Coulda grabbed his axe if I were in the mood to have my arm broken off. Was pretty cool.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Besides, I have never thought GnR was that great (one of the most overrated bands ever), and while AFD is a good record, I think it is highly overrated. It is one of those albums that casual music fans eat up, but hardcore music fans seldom rate too highly. I hope that didn't sound elitist.

Also, since you asked to list at least one album since that is better, I will go with an obvious choice, and one that many probably are familiar with:

Radiohead - OK Computer

While you were busy making two trips to load your music ego into the door you missed a key component to the debate that was in the header as well as the first post. I love Radiohead. Have seen them several times live. Own everything that they released and while I agree OK Computer is a phenomenal album (though IMO Overrated and not their best), I must say it is in no way shape or form a ROCK album.

Please try again.

We're talking about albums that capture the essence of Rock & Roll.... that drug addled, balls to the wall, falling apart at the seams essence that GnR captured perfectly.

Okay, my bad. How about I start with The Colour and the Shape by Foo Fighters? That is pure straight ahead rock and roll.

Don't bother him with such trivialities. He's hardcore, he listens to a crapload.

I could probably name at least 100, but I listen to a crapload of music, the majority of which isn't well-known or mainstream.

Can you be troubled to educate us unwashed, ignorant masses with a few of these 100? Thx.

Why? So everyone can disagree and continue blowing Guns N' Roses left and right? Nah. Besides, most of them admittedly would not fall under the "straight ahead rock and roll" banner that [icon] is looking for. If you persist, I can make you a nice little list, but I really do not want to derail this thread.

Start another one. I would be interested in your list.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Tough to compare Pearl Jam and GNR b/c they are different types of music.....but Ten is probably the only album that comes close.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

since the Foo Fighters have been dropped in, Echoes Silence Patience & Grace is the best rock&roll album in the last 10 years. Not a bad or filler song on the thing.

 

[Jack Burton]

Ten.

Great album, but not Appetite great.

I like Ten better than AFD.

You're insane.

AFD is bubblegum rock at its worst, Its the LA version of Slippery When Wet. Ten outclasses AFD any day of the week. Pearl Jam are serious muscians. GnR act like little beyotches on the rag. My wife liked GnR... she also liked The Go Go's, Bananarama, and Wham.

The only album I've heard mentioned in this thread that is even close to AFD is Blood Sugar Sex Magik. And AFD is slightly better because it's more compact.

Why is that funny? Why do laugh? Did you laugh at Axle when he wore his leather jacket and bicycle shorts?Blood Sugar is superior to AFD in every way. Ten pioneered a whole new sound in rock and roll. AFD is the 1987 version of arena rock.

 

[travdogg]

I also think Ten is a great album but I'm not sure it belongs in the same conversation with these other two. A conversation about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, and Alice in Chains would be interesting.

I don't really think they are in the same league as Nirvana, PJ and AIC. I'd argue that AIC is the best band out of those 4, they didn't rely on any one album like Nirvana and especially PJ did.I'd rank the Seattle/grunge era bands:

AIC

Nirvana

Sceaming Trees

Soundgarden

Pearl Jam

 

[Tiger Fan]

I also think Ten is a great album but I'm not sure it belongs in the same conversation with these other two. A conversation about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, and Alice in Chains would be interesting.

I don't really think they are in the same league as Nirvana, PJ and AIC. I'd argue that AIC is the best band out of those 4, they didn't rely on any one album like Nirvana and especially PJ did.I'd rank the Seattle/grunge era bands:

AIC

Nirvana

Sceaming Trees

Soundgarden

Pearl Jam

Not sure what "relying" on an album means....Ten is an great album, and the band shouldn't be penalized b/c it sold 13 million copies.ETA: all of the "popular" seattle bands are/were great as far as being musicians. It's a damn shame Cobain/Staley killed themselves. GB being a teenager in the early 90s. Music was freaking increadible then

 

[zoonation]

It is a matter of taste, but What's the Story (Morning Glory) by Oasis is at least equally good.

 

[rotohuff]

Black Album

Ten

COC - Wiseblood

BTW, GN'R's new album RULES!

 

[Abraham]

I was initially surprised that there was this much discussion, but, at the risk of sounding like a "good ol' days!" guy, I think you had to live in the GNR prime to get the full feel. As a result, people who were teens during Ten/Nevermind might have the same affinity for those records in the same way. Fair enough.

In the late 80's, GNR was EVERYWHERE. They opened shows for Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones and there wouldn't be an empty seat in the house. Every week was another story about them and their debauchary but unlike other bands, they had the goods to back it up. AfD was dismissed by some critics as being a "one trick pony"...just in time for Lies ("Patience") to come out and shock everyone. The band started the UYI tours in May before the Sept release of the records and sold out every venue they played despite not having fresh material for years. The band was a phenomenal stage-act during the AfD tours despite being completely drunk/high.

I realize we are talking about the record itself, but part of the allure of AfD was that no matter how insane the band behaved and how ridiculous their antics, they had an unbelievable, lightning in a bottle, raw rock record that could not be denied by even the harshest critic. I can only imagine someone buying it for Sweet Child and Jungle, popping the tape in and getting trampled by a heard of elephants for the next 60 minutes. There is not a single letup on the whole thing, sort of like the first Ramones record. Even in it's weaker moments like Think About You and Out To Get Me (which are still awesome) it never lets up. I saw a Ramones documentary on Saturday where a producer said, "As soon as you played their debut for the first time, half of your record collection became obsolete." That's what AfD did for hair-metal, hard rock which despite our mockery now was a HUGE force in music. Imagine right now if a brand new rap artist releasing a record that was both accessible to the general audience yet so brialliant and full of talent that other artist's careers were literally over. That was the AfD affect.

HEre were these heroin using, glammed out, homeless guys not so different from the rest of the LA scene on the outside who simply rocked like no one else.

It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar. Musically, it's phenomenal and in uncharted waters despite the fact that it was recorded by severely intoxicated people with no musical training at all. Some oft he riffs are so inspired by Aerosmith that it could be called a rip-off if not for the fact that GNR absolutely OWNED those riffs and made them their own. Lyrically, it's about girls, drugs, paranoia, and the streets...the exact same material that Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison were offering yet it stood out as inarguably honest and violent.

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

I understand other people who think that certain albums are as good or what not, but you have to realize the record is 25+ years old and if it were released tomorrow, it would still sound revolutionary.

Pearl Jam's Ten, Radiohead, RHCP, Metallica...all great records and artists. And they've influenced hundreds of bands along the way. But AfD is so unique that NOTHING sounds anything like it more than 2 decades later. It's as if it was so unique and powerful that artists are stumped as to how to draw from it.

THere will never be another GNR, never be another AfD, and never be another time when a single Hydrogen-Bomb of a band so thoroughly ruled the rock scene.

 

[Abraham]

It is a matter of taste, but What's the Story (Morning Glory) by Oasis is at least equally good.

Oasis is one of my 5 favorite groups, but this is ludicrous.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

I was initially surprised that there was this much discussion, but, at the risk of sounding like a "good ol' days!" guy, I think you had to live in the GNR prime to get the full feel. As a result, people who were teens during Ten/Nevermind might have the same affinity for those records in the same way. Fair enough.

In the late 80's, GNR was EVERYWHERE. They opened shows for Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones and there wouldn't be an empty seat in the house. Every week was another story about them and their debauchary but unlike other bands, they had the goods to back it up. AfD was dismissed by some critics as being a "one trick pony"...just in time for Lies ("Patience") to come out and shock everyone. The band started the UYI tours in May before the Sept release of the records and sold out every venue they played despite not having fresh material for years. The band was a phenomenal stage-act during the AfD tours despite being completely drunk/high.

I realize we are talking about the record itself, but part of the allure of AfD was that no matter how insane the band behaved and how ridiculous their antics, they had an unbelievable, lightning in a bottle, raw rock record that could not be denied by even the harshest critic. I can only imagine someone buying it for Sweet Child and Jungle, popping the tape in and getting trampled by a heard of elephants for the next 60 minutes. There is not a single letup on the whole thing, sort of like the first Ramones record. Even in it's weaker moments like Think About You and Out To Get Me (which are still awesome) it never lets up. I saw a Ramones documentary on Saturday where a producer said, "As soon as you played their debut for the first time, half of your record collection became obsolete." That's what AfD did for hair-metal, hard rock which despite our mockery now was a HUGE force in music. Imagine right now if a brand new rap artist releasing a record that was both accessible to the general audience yet so brialliant and full of talent that other artist's careers were literally over. That was the AfD affect.

HEre were these heroin using, glammed out, homeless guys not so different from the rest of the LA scene on the outside who simply rocked like no one else.

It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar. Musically, it's phenomenal and in uncharted waters despite the fact that it was recorded by severely intoxicated people with no musical training at all. Some oft he riffs are so inspired by Aerosmith that it could be called a rip-off if not for the fact that GNR absolutely OWNED those riffs and made them their own. Lyrically, it's about girls, drugs, paranoia, and the streets...the exact same material that Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison were offering yet it stood out as inarguably honest and violent.

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

I understand other people who think that certain albums are as good or what not, but you have to realize the record is 25+ years old and if it were released tomorrow, it would still sound revolutionary.

Pearl Jam's Ten, Radiohead, RHCP, Metallica...all great records and artists. And they've influenced hundreds of bands along the way. But AfD is so unique that NOTHING sounds anything like it more than 2 decades later. It's as if it was so unique and powerful that artists are stumped as to how to draw from it.

THere will never be another GNR, never be another AfD, and never be another time when a single Hydrogen-Bomb of a band so thoroughly ruled the rock scene.

/thread.

 

[Thunderlips]

I was initially surprised that there was this much discussion, but, at the risk of sounding like a "good ol' days!" guy, I think you had to live in the GNR prime to get the full feel. As a result, people who were teens during Ten/Nevermind might have the same affinity for those records in the same way. Fair enough.

In the late 80's, GNR was EVERYWHERE. They opened shows for Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones and there wouldn't be an empty seat in the house. Every week was another story about them and their debauchary but unlike other bands, they had the goods to back it up. AfD was dismissed by some critics as being a "one trick pony"...just in time for Lies ("Patience") to come out and shock everyone. The band started the UYI tours in May before the Sept release of the records and sold out every venue they played despite not having fresh material for years. The band was a phenomenal stage-act during the AfD tours despite being completely drunk/high.



I realize we are talking about the record itself, but part of the allure of AfD was that no matter how insane the band behaved and how ridiculous their antics, they had an unbelievable, lightning in a bottle, raw rock record that could not be denied by even the harshest critic. I can only imagine someone buying it for Sweet Child and Jungle, popping the tape in and getting trampled by a heard of elephants for the next 60 minutes. There is not a single letup on the whole thing, sort of like the first Ramones record. Even in it's weaker moments like Think About You and Out To Get Me (which are still awesome) it never lets up. I saw a Ramones documentary on Saturday where a producer said, "As soon as you played their debut for the first time, half of your record collection became obsolete." That's what AfD did for hair-metal, hard rock which despite our mockery now was a HUGE force in music. Imagine right now if a brand new rap artist releasing a record that was both accessible to the general audience yet so brialliant and full of talent that other artist's careers were literally over. That was the AfD affect.

HEre were these heroin using, glammed out, homeless guys not so different from the rest of the LA scene on the outside who simply rocked like no one else.

It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar. Musically, it's phenomenal and in uncharted waters despite the fact that it was recorded by severely intoxicated people with no musical training at all. Some oft he riffs are so inspired by Aerosmith that it could be called a rip-off if not for the fact that GNR absolutely OWNED those riffs and made them their own. Lyrically, it's about girls, drugs, paranoia, and the streets...the exact same material that Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison were offering yet it stood out as inarguably honest and violent.

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

I understand other people who think that certain albums are as good or what not, but you have to realize the record is 25+ years old and if it were released tomorrow, it would still sound revolutionary.

Pearl Jam's Ten, Radiohead, RHCP, Metallica...all great records and artists. And they've influenced hundreds of bands along the way. But AfD is so unique that NOTHING sounds anything like it more than 2 decades later. It's as if it was so unique and powerful that artists are stumped as to how to draw from it.

THere will never be another GNR, never be another AfD, and never be another time when a single Hydrogen-Bomb of a band so thoroughly ruled the rock scene.

I disagree. The opening riff of Smells Like Teen Spirit for the first time on MTV ended the hair band era.

 

[travdogg]

I also think Ten is a great album but I'm not sure it belongs in the same conversation with these other two. A conversation about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, and Alice in Chains would be interesting.

I don't really think they are in the same league as Nirvana, PJ and AIC. I'd argue that AIC is the best band out of those 4, they didn't rely on any one album like Nirvana and especially PJ did.I'd rank the Seattle/grunge era bands:

AIC

Nirvana

Sceaming Trees

Soundgarden

Pearl Jam

Not sure what "relying" on an album means....Ten is an great album, and the band shouldn't be penalized b/c it sold 13 million copies.ETA: all of the "popular" seattle bands are/were great as far as being musicians. It's a damn shame Cobain/Staley killed themselves. GB being a teenager in the early 90s. Music was freaking increadible then

I meant that I feel everything Pearl Jam did after "Ten" seemed like a step backwards. Just felt like they peaked with their first album and everything else they did was somewhat overrated, not bad by any means, just nowhere near as good. You are dead on about the Seattle bands all being excellent. I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history.

 

[rotohuff]

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

Wouldn't you consider Sweet Child O' Mine a ballad?

 

[Abraham]

I was initially surprised that there was this much discussion, but, at the risk of sounding like a "good ol' days!" guy, I think you had to live in the GNR prime to get the full feel. As a result, people who were teens during Ten/Nevermind might have the same affinity for those records in the same way. Fair enough.

In the late 80's, GNR was EVERYWHERE. They opened shows for Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones and there wouldn't be an empty seat in the house. Every week was another story about them and their debauchary but unlike other bands, they had the goods to back it up. AfD was dismissed by some critics as being a "one trick pony"...just in time for Lies ("Patience") to come out and shock everyone. The band started the UYI tours in May before the Sept release of the records and sold out every venue they played despite not having fresh material for years. The band was a phenomenal stage-act during the AfD tours despite being completely drunk/high.



I realize we are talking about the record itself, but part of the allure of AfD was that no matter how insane the band behaved and how ridiculous their antics, they had an unbelievable, lightning in a bottle, raw rock record that could not be denied by even the harshest critic. I can only imagine someone buying it for Sweet Child and Jungle, popping the tape in and getting trampled by a heard of elephants for the next 60 minutes. There is not a single letup on the whole thing, sort of like the first Ramones record. Even in it's weaker moments like Think About You and Out To Get Me (which are still awesome) it never lets up. I saw a Ramones documentary on Saturday where a producer said, "As soon as you played their debut for the first time, half of your record collection became obsolete." That's what AfD did for hair-metal, hard rock which despite our mockery now was a HUGE force in music. Imagine right now if a brand new rap artist releasing a record that was both accessible to the general audience yet so brialliant and full of talent that other artist's careers were literally over. That was the AfD affect.

HEre were these heroin using, glammed out, homeless guys not so different from the rest of the LA scene on the outside who simply rocked like no one else.

It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar. Musically, it's phenomenal and in uncharted waters despite the fact that it was recorded by severely intoxicated people with no musical training at all. Some oft he riffs are so inspired by Aerosmith that it could be called a rip-off if not for the fact that GNR absolutely OWNED those riffs and made them their own. Lyrically, it's about girls, drugs, paranoia, and the streets...the exact same material that Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison were offering yet it stood out as inarguably honest and violent.

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

I understand other people who think that certain albums are as good or what not, but you have to realize the record is 25+ years old and if it were released tomorrow, it would still sound revolutionary.

Pearl Jam's Ten, Radiohead, RHCP, Metallica...all great records and artists. And they've influenced hundreds of bands along the way. But AfD is so unique that NOTHING sounds anything like it more than 2 decades later. It's as if it was so unique and powerful that artists are stumped as to how to draw from it.

THere will never be another GNR, never be another AfD, and never be another time when a single Hydrogen-Bomb of a band so thoroughly ruled the rock scene.

I disagree. The opening riff of Smells Like Teen Spirit for the first time on MTV ended the hair band era.

Agreed. I didn't say it ended the hair band era. I said it ended careers of other bands. Also, Nirvana simply channeled Sonic Youth, Mudhoney, and Killing Joke in to a more commercially viable package/sound. GNR was clearly influenced by other bands (as all groups are) but they sounded unlike anything anyone else was doing at the time.1. AfD has still sold more copies then Nevermind

 

[Thunderlips]

I also think Ten is a great album but I'm not sure it belongs in the same conversation with these other two. A conversation about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, and Alice in Chains would be interesting.

I don't really think they are in the same league as Nirvana, PJ and AIC. I'd argue that AIC is the best band out of those 4, they didn't rely on any one album like Nirvana and especially PJ did.I'd rank the Seattle/grunge era bands:

AIC

Nirvana

Sceaming Trees

Soundgarden

Pearl Jam

Not sure what "relying" on an album means....Ten is an great album, and the band shouldn't be penalized b/c it sold 13 million copies.ETA: all of the "popular" seattle bands are/were great as far as being musicians. It's a damn shame Cobain/Staley killed themselves. GB being a teenager in the early 90s. Music was freaking increadible then

I meant that I feel everything Pearl Jam did after "Ten" seemed like a step backwards. Just felt like they peaked with their first album and everything else they did was somewhat overrated, not bad by any means, just nowhere near as good. You are dead on about the Seattle bands all being excellent. I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history.

I agree with this. I think that on each of PJ's albums that came after Ten, there was one or two "Ten worthy" songs.....but on a whole, the albums were not as good as Ten.

 

[Abraham]

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

Wouldn't you consider Sweet Child O' Mine a ballad?

SCoM is played at 122 bpm. My opinion is that ballads need to be light AND mostly slow.

 

[Abraham]

You are dead on about the Seattle bands all being excellent. I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history

1987 saw the release of AfD, Jane's Addiction's debut, The Joshua Tree, Sign O' The Times, Uplift Mofo Party Plan, Tunnel of Love, Kick, Faith, Pleased to Meet Me, Bad, Hysteria, Girls Girls Girls, Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me, Tribute and a slew of others.I'll take 1987 over your 5 year period.

 

[zoonation]

It is a matter of taste, but What's the Story (Morning Glory) by Oasis is at least equally good.

Oasis is one of my 5 favorite groups, but this is ludicrous.

Most "greatest albums ever" polls put Morning Golory above AFD. So to suggest it is ludicrous is a little much. How about, you don't think it is?

 

[Abraham]

It is a matter of taste, but What's the Story (Morning Glory) by Oasis is at least equally good.

Oasis is one of my 5 favorite groups, but this is ludicrous.

Most "greatest albums ever" polls put Morning Golory above AFD. So to suggest it is ludicrous is a little much. How about, you don't think it is?

Link? (seriously)WTSMG has some gems (Cast NO Shadow, Wonderwall, Morning Glory) and some solid songs that don't hold up much IMO (Roll with it, Champagne, Don't look back). It's a great album but I don't think it's their best and I can't imagine it garnering much praise outside the UK above an album like AfD.

 

[Fiddles]

this is a funny thread

 

[Tiger Fan]

I also think Ten is a great album but I'm not sure it belongs in the same conversation with these other two. A conversation about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, and Alice in Chains would be interesting.

I don't really think they are in the same league as Nirvana, PJ and AIC. I'd argue that AIC is the best band out of those 4, they didn't rely on any one album like Nirvana and especially PJ did.I'd rank the Seattle/grunge era bands:

AIC

Nirvana

Sceaming Trees

Soundgarden

Pearl Jam

Not sure what "relying" on an album means....Ten is an great album, and the band shouldn't be penalized b/c it sold 13 million copies.ETA: all of the "popular" seattle bands are/were great as far as being musicians. It's a damn shame Cobain/Staley killed themselves. GB being a teenager in the early 90s. Music was freaking increadible then

I meant that I feel everything Pearl Jam did after "Ten" seemed like a step backwards. Just felt like they peaked with their first album and everything else they did was somewhat overrated, not bad by any means, just nowhere near as good. You are dead on about the Seattle bands all being excellent. I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history.

I hear ya. I'm a die hard, so I really think that their music has gotten better (self titled is a great album)...but I fully understand how most think their albums haven't touched Ten.Ten to me just sounds too overproduced...

 

[Tiger Fan]

You are dead on about the Seattle bands all being excellent. I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history

1987 saw the release of AfD, Jane's Addiction's debut, The Joshua Tree, Sign O' The Times, Uplift Mofo Party Plan, Tunnel of Love, Kick, Faith, Pleased to Meet Me, Bad, Hysteria, Girls Girls Girls, Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me, Tribute and a slew of others.I'll take 1987 over your 5 year period.

Big Red X

 

[maxwelledison]

Not to inflame the masses but Appetite and Ten are two of the most dated and overrated albums of all time. Same goes for the bands that created them.

Blood Sugar Sex Magik is much better than either and the fact that not one person has named Surfer Rosa is borderline despicable.

 

[Thunderlips]

GNR fans. Are Use Your Illusion I and II bloated? Would one album combining those songs be up there with AoD? If you were to make one album out of those two....which songs would make the cut. Say 13 tracks.......

 

[Tiger Fan]

Not to inflame the masses but Appetite and Ten are two of the most dated and overrated albums of all time. Same goes for the bands that created them.Blood Sugar Sex Magik is much better than either and the fact that not one person has named Surfer Rosa is borderline despicable.

somebody needs a hug

 

[Ghost Rider]

I was initially surprised that there was this much discussion, but, at the risk of sounding like a "good ol' days!" guy, I think you had to live in the GNR prime to get the full feel. As a result, people who were teens during Ten/Nevermind might have the same affinity for those records in the same way. Fair enough.

In the late 80's, GNR was EVERYWHERE. They opened shows for Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones and there wouldn't be an empty seat in the house. Every week was another story about them and their debauchary but unlike other bands, they had the goods to back it up. AfD was dismissed by some critics as being a "one trick pony"...just in time for Lies ("Patience") to come out and shock everyone. The band started the UYI tours in May before the Sept release of the records and sold out every venue they played despite not having fresh material for years. The band was a phenomenal stage-act during the AfD tours despite being completely drunk/high.

I realize we are talking about the record itself, but part of the allure of AfD was that no matter how insane the band behaved and how ridiculous their antics, they had an unbelievable, lightning in a bottle, raw rock record that could not be denied by even the harshest critic. I can only imagine someone buying it for Sweet Child and Jungle, popping the tape in and getting trampled by a heard of elephants for the next 60 minutes. There is not a single letup on the whole thing, sort of like the first Ramones record. Even in it's weaker moments like Think About You and Out To Get Me (which are still awesome) it never lets up. I saw a Ramones documentary on Saturday where a producer said, "As soon as you played their debut for the first time, half of your record collection became obsolete." That's what AfD did for hair-metal, hard rock which despite our mockery now was a HUGE force in music. Imagine right now if a brand new rap artist releasing a record that was both accessible to the general audience yet so brialliant and full of talent that other artist's careers were literally over. That was the AfD affect.

HEre were these heroin using, glammed out, homeless guys not so different from the rest of the LA scene on the outside who simply rocked like no one else.

It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar. Musically, it's phenomenal and in uncharted waters despite the fact that it was recorded by severely intoxicated people with no musical training at all. Some oft he riffs are so inspired by Aerosmith that it could be called a rip-off if not for the fact that GNR absolutely OWNED those riffs and made them their own. Lyrically, it's about girls, drugs, paranoia, and the streets...the exact same material that Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison were offering yet it stood out as inarguably honest and violent.

As for marketing, it sold 15 million copies in 3 years despite the fact it didn't have a single ballad nor did it have a 4th single/video. Contemporary albums ALWAYS had a ballad come out 3rd yet GNR's 3rd single was a rock song featuring a 2 minute double-time guitar solo at the end.

I understand other people who think that certain albums are as good or what not, but you have to realize the record is 25+ years old and if it were released tomorrow, it would still sound revolutionary.

Pearl Jam's Ten, Radiohead, RHCP, Metallica...all great records and artists. And they've influenced hundreds of bands along the way. But AfD is so unique that NOTHING sounds anything like it more than 2 decades later. It's as if it was so unique and powerful that artists are stumped as to how to draw from it.

THere will never be another GNR, never be another AfD, and never be another time when a single Hydrogen-Bomb of a band so thoroughly ruled the rock scene.

I admire your passion for this band and this record, even if I disagree with much of what you said. And to address one thing, you said, "It's one of the only rock records of the era (harkening back to the Stones' best work) where the guitarists are doing unique things at the same time and the bass isn't just mimicing the bass note of the rhythm guitar." That is absolutely not true AT ALL.

I'd argue that 1990-1995 is the best 5 year period in music history.

I'll take 1972-1976. Oh, and you listed a six-year period.

Wouldn't you consider Sweet Child O' Mine a ballad?

I would say it is ballad-esque. Not a true ballad, in that it moves too quickly at times to be a true ballad, but it has the "feel" of a ballad (in the main guitar lead and the vocals).

 

[maxwelledison]

Not to inflame the masses but Appetite and Ten are two of the most dated and overrated albums of all time. Same goes for the bands that created them.Blood Sugar Sex Magik is much better than either and the fact that not one person has named Surfer Rosa is borderline despicable.

somebody needs a hug

Possible but I stand by it.

 

[Disco Stu]

I listened to Appetite today for the first time in a long time, and uhhh... it's not as good as I remembered. :ducks:

I used to love rocking out to that album, but I'm not 15 anymore.

 

[buster c]

I listened to Appetite today for the first time in a long time, and uhhh... it's not as good as I remembered. :ducks:

I used to love rocking out to that album, but I'm not 15 anymore.

funny thing is, I did the same last night as I was reading this thread and I had forgotten how lame Paradise City was. just a repetitive bore of a tune. but for the most part, the album still cooks and stands the test of time.

but I'd take any AIC album as embodying the spirit of R'nR better - as I understand it to be the criteria defined in this thread.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I listened to Appetite today for the first time in a long time, and uhhh... it's not as good as I remembered. :ducks:I used to love rocking out to that album, but I'm not 15 anymore.

I was 14 when it came out, was pretty big on a lot of the hair rock/metal that was out at the time, and wasn't even that crazy about GnR then. They have a handful of songs I think are really good, but that is about it. The fact that Axl Rose sounds like he is singing with razor blades in his throat has never helped. I understand that their music doesn't call for a vocalist with a "smooth" voice, but his voice just sounds like garbage the majority of the time.

 

[travdogg]

Not to inflame the masses but Appetite and Ten are two of the most dated and overrated albums of all time. Same goes for the bands that created them.

Blood Sugar Sex Magik is much better than either and the fact that not one person has named Surfer Rosa is borderline despicable.

I love that album, but I'm not sure its mainstream enough. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't even know who it's by. Also, I'm not sure its even their best album, what makes it better than Doolittle?

 

[Walton Goggins]

Wow, did anyone here bother to listen to AIC - Dirt? Not one bad song although it was NOT commercial enough perhaps for many to have listened to this album but tough to beat.

 

[[icon]]

It is a matter of taste, but What's the Story (Morning Glory) by Oasis is at least equally good.

Jesus.....