Good David Boston article (1 Viewer)

[joffer]

If Boston is to finish in the top 15, then he will need to approach stats of 1000+ and 9 TDs. What then is to happen to Chambers if he gets this? IMO there is in no way enough room on this team for both to approach this high of a status.It seems to me that if you figure Boston to be a top 15 WR then Cambers will have to fall out of the top 25, or vise versa. The Mia O simply does not and will not IMO create enough OPPORTUNITY for both of them to be at that high a level. Opportunity being the key word, not ability. In comparison to Mia's passing O in the past few years, numbers of 1000/9 would = 35% of the yds and 51% of the TDs. This on an O in which Chambers already posted 35% of Mia's yds last year and 65% of their TDs. Again, the equation does not = out for both to play this well. Plus, Boston has never exactly been a TD scoring machine. His career high is only 8. So why then would he so easily supplant a very sold go to guy such as Chambers? Basically, I find it much more likely that Chamber not Boston stays as the main target in the Mia O. He has been in the system with the players and coaches for a few years now and is not a head case. Boston could very well take that from him. However, there is no way at all that I can see both of these guys being worth their draft weight come next season and Chambers has given me far less reasons to doubt him over Boston. I will say it now very loud and clear, at least one of these guys will not perform up to thier draft possition! Boston has not done so for the past 2 years, my money is on him again this year.

igskinp:

 

[Tau837]

This is all very misleading...1. Of the 10 he missed, 8 were for a knee injury he has since recovered from, 1 is from a foot injury, and one was a suspension IIRC.

How is it misleading? What I stated is a fact--10 missed games in past 2 seasons. If anything, the fact that he has suffered both injury and suspension within the past two years makes him more likely to miss time this season IMO.

2. Fielder's career completion percentage is better than Plummer and equal to Brees.

So what? When did we start a discussion on completion percentage? The point of your original post is that Boston has played with lousy QBs. My rebuttal post stated that he would continue to play with lousy QBs, at least for fantasy purposes.Points of more relevant fantasy interest than completion percentage:Fiedler has averaged 179 passing yards per game in his career as a starter (counting 2000-2003).Brees has averaged 200 (counting 2002-2003).Plummer has averaged 209 (counting entire career, since he started from day one).Fiedler has thrown 59 TDs in 55 games as a starter.Brees has thrown 28 in 27 games.Plummer has thrown 105 in 95 games.Please explain to me why Fiedler is a better QB for Boston in fantasy terms. I'm not seeing it.

3. The study Drinen did actually talked about how when there is a "stud" WR lined up on one side of the field, the #2 has a better-than-average chance of putting up solid numbers. The lone exception was the Minnesota #2 when Carter retired. If thats the case, and some of you think Chambers will still be the #1, than that works out well for Boston.

Then perhaps it was Unlucky's study I was referring to. As I said in my previous post, which you ignored in a general reference to the opinions of "some of you" because it better served your point, I think Boston is the one who will draw the most double teams, thus he will be the de facto #1. So IMO it "works out well" for Chambers, as I said before.

4. Are you referring to Randy "2 TDs last year" McMichael as a "big redzone target?" Wasn't one of those a fumble recovery?

Well, McMichael had 12 red zone targets last season, and Chambers had 15 according to FBG. Meanwhile, Boston had 18 in San Diego. Do you really think Boston will get that many with both McMichael and Chambers on the field?And if Boston is such a great red zone target, please explain his paltry 25 TDs in 70 career games.

 

[jurb26]

He was just picked up in one of my Leagues at 6.04 in a 12 team draft (I had 6.06 and truly wanted him). His potential is off the charts, considering he is being had in the 5th to 7th round range. I happily ended up with Porter, as he is in a similar boat (many question marks, but extraordinary possibilities). There are few WR's in this grouping with great breakout potential.

That seems to be about right. Nice value that late. I don't think he will fall that far in most drafts for some reason though. BTW, I love the Porter pick. IMO more upside that Boston and less risk. Nice job

 

[Colin Dowling]

How is it misleading? What I stated is a fact--10 missed games in past 2 seasons. If anything, the fact that he has suffered both injury and suspension within the past two years makes him more likely to miss time this season IMO.

How does that make him more likely to miss time this season? My point was that having an isolated knee injury and a suspension is a far cry better than having chronic hamstring problems or a problem with concussions. I'd be interested to see how you determined that a 2 year old knee injury makes him "more likely to miss time" so I could downgrade everybody else that got hurt in 2002.

So what? When did we start a discussion on completion percentage? The point of your original post is that Boston has played with lousy QBs. My rebuttal post stated that he would continue to play with lousy QBs, at least for fantasy purposes.

I started a discussion on completion percentage to evaluate Fiedler and Plummer/Brees. I made the point that Plummer and Brees were terrible and Boston still produced. My point is/was/continues to be that the QB situation in Miami is certainl not worse than the QB situations he's been in before, and he produced at that time.

Then perhaps it was Unlucky's study I was referring to. As I said in my previous post, which you ignored in a general reference to the opinions of "some of you" because it better served your point, I think Boston is the one who will draw the most double teams, thus he will be the de facto #1. So IMO it "works out well" for Chambers, as I said before.

I'm going to need you to clarify what Unlucky's study said. Solid WRs in the NFL draw double-teams all the time. It doesn't drop their value through the floor. THe entire point is that Boston is good enough to play through it.

Well, McMichael had 12 red zone targets last season, and Chambers had 15 according to FBG. Meanwhile, Boston had 18 in San Diego. Do you really think Boston will get that many with both McMichael and Chambers on the field?

James McKnight had 6 and Derrius Thompson had 5. (McKnight, Thompson and Chambers all had the same number of goalline targets - 2). THere's 11 right there. Now, add in that while Chambers is a very good receiver, he's not 6'2, 230 and all muscle. The mere fact that Boston can physically muscle the ball as well as anyone in the league will garner him a fair number of redzone targets. Now, add in that I'd be surprised if the Dolphins didn't throw it more (Norv is gone, Ricky is showing wear and tear) and I'd say 18 redzone targets is plenty reasonable.

And if Boston is such a great red zone target, please explain his paltry 25 TDs in 70 career games.

What's "paltry" about 25 career TDs in 70 games? The teams he has played for have passed for, cumulatively, 83 touchdowns while Boston was on the roster (I've included TDs from when he was hurt and not playing). Boston has accounted for 30% of his teams' TDs to WR. I'm not sure why thats such a bad number (the best WRs, like Moss, are in the mid 40% range).Colin

 

[jurb26]

I started a discussion on completion percentage to evaluate Fiedler and Plummer/Brees. I made the point that Plummer and Brees were terrible and Boston still produced. My point is/was/continues to be that the QB situation in Miami is certainl not worse than the QB situations he's been in before, and he produced at that time.

This is obviously an opinion matter, but lets leave it at the fact that the situations are a push. Neither of which is good. Plummer hasa clearly been the best of the group though and that is really the only situation he "pruduced" in. Mia has got no Plummer, boy that is an oxymoron. Nothing about the Mia QB situation is looking good, lets just say that.

What's "paltry" about 25 career TDs in 70 games? The teams he has played for have passed for, cumulatively, 83 touchdowns while Boston was on the roster (I've included TDs from when he was hurt and not playing). Boston has accounted for 30% of his teams' TDs to WR. I'm not sure why thats such a bad number (the best WRs, like Moss, are in the mid 40% range).

Again, what about Mia is leading you to believe that they are a better team and situation to be in. This team has made a joke of the forward pass over the past few years. 2 years.... 35 total passing TDs. I fail to see your point as to how this is going to = suddenly outstanding TD numbers for a guy that has not yet showed the ability to find the endzone consistantly.

 

[Sinrman]

He was just picked up in one of my Leagues at 6.04 in a 12 team draft (I had 6.06 and truly wanted him). His potential is off the charts, considering he is being had in the 5th to 7th round range. I happily ended up with Porter, as he is in a similar boat (many question marks, but extraordinary possibilities). There are few WR's in this grouping with great breakout potential.

That seems to be about right. Nice value that late. I don't think he will fall that far in most drafts for some reason though. BTW, I love the Porter pick. IMO more upside that Boston and less risk. Nice job

Not to give too much away, wait till you see where he went in both the FBG staff/member survivor drafts...

 

[Atomic Punk]

Just curious Maurile, how can you list a guy who in your own words has "poor hands" as one of the "three most gifted WRs on the planet"?

Because he's one of the three guys, along with Moss and Owens, who nobody in the league can match up with. Those three guys can single-handedly change a game very quickly because they must be double-teamed or they are a very real threat to score from anywhere on the field no matter who's covering them. Holt and Harrison are excellent WRs -- much better than Boston, for sure -- but that's because they make the most of their ability while Boston has not. In terms of raw ability, Boston takes a back seat to nobody except Moss.

From my understanding, good hands are generally conisdered THE most important attribute of a WR, followed by speed, pattern, release, RAC and blocking (intelligence is embedded within many of these).

I would compare hands for a WR to a good jump shot for an NBA guard. A good jump shot would help any player, but very often the best shooters in the league are at the end of their team's bench, while the most dangerous scorers in the league are only average or sometimes even below average mid-to-long-range shooters. It's the same with hands in the NFL.It's not like Boston can't catch the ball. It's just that some balls Wayne Chrebet will catch 95% of the time, Boston will only catch 90% of the time -- or some balls Chrebet will catch 65% of the time, Boston will only catch 50% of the time. It makes a difference, but it's not the most important factor.

Thanks for the explanation Maurile and good analogy.I just have this feeling that Boston will continue to be one of those guys that will never reach his full potential. Give him the work ethic of a Tim Brown and I would easily put him in the top 5. With an improved work ethic and desire for the game his hands would no longer be considered a weakness, as I'm sure that would be the first thing to show improvement.

It is his lack of desire, more than anything else, that seems to be the issue thus far in his career. Unfortunately, coaching, QBs or an improved WR2 will not change that .... only David Boston can change that.

Punk

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Give him the work ethic of a Tim Brown and I would easily put him in the top 5.

Interesting comparison because, after showing some potential his rookie year, Tim Brown was a disappointment for the next four years. Fred Biletnikoff was (and still is) the Raiders' WR coach, and he was critical of Brown's inability to run patterns properly. Brown was a great athlete, but didn't respond to his coaching the way Biletnikoff wanted.That changed eventually, and Tim Brown became known as a hard worker who always sought to improve. But it didn't happen until about the point in his career where Boston is now. So maybe Boston will start to mature the way Brown did.Or maybe not. I don't know. But I'm not writing him off yet.

 

[Tau837]

How does that make him more likely to miss time this season? My point was that having an isolated knee injury and a suspension is a far cry better than having chronic hamstring problems or a problem with concussions. I'd be interested to see how you determined that a 2 year old knee injury makes him "more likely to miss time" so I could downgrade everybody else that got hurt in 2002.

I will be surprised if he plays 16 games. We can agree to disagree here.

I started a discussion on completion percentage to evaluate Fiedler and Plummer/Brees. I made the point that Plummer and Brees were terrible and Boston still produced. My point is/was/continues to be that the QB situation in Miami is certainl not worse than the QB situations he's been in before, and he produced at that time.

Yes, the Miami QBs and Brees are lousy. And Plummer was lousy at times in Arizona. However, he played well in Boston's one big season there. Which one made the other? I am of the opinion that Plummer is a much better QB than Fiedler/Feeley, which I think he proved to an extent last season. Like jurb said, we can call the QB comparison a push.Given that you are suggesting that the Miami passing game will be no worse for Boston than the Arizona and/or San Diego passing games, there is another item of interest here. San Diego attempted 525 passes last season. Arizona attempted 554 in 2000 and 526 in 2001, Boston's two good seasons there.Meanwhile, here are Miami's pass attempts during the past 4 seasons that Wannstedt has been their head coach: 450 last season, 455 in 2002, 453 in 2001, 421 in 2000.How many pass attempts are you predicting for Miami this season? Are you expecting Ricky to get injured? (And even so, note that he didn't have Ricky in 2000 or 2001, yet passed even less then than with Ricky the next two seasons.)

I'm going to need you to clarify what Unlucky's study said. Solid WRs in the NFL draw double-teams all the time. It doesn't drop their value through the floor. THe entire point is that Boston is good enough to play through it.

This is what I was referring to: Does having a stud #2 WR help or hurt the #1WR?, lets settle this once and for allTo recap, you said this:

Now, lets look as the All-Pros that have lined up opposite Boston: Reche Caldwell and Frank Sanders. Awesome, really.

to which I responded with this:

a study has shown that the presence (or lack thereof) of a quality second WR does not have appreciable (fantasy) impact on a WR.

Both Unlucky and Jason Wood state in the linked thread above that there is no evidence that the quality of #2 WR has any effect at all on the performance of the #1 WR. I guess you can disagree with that, but that was my point.You're right in that great WRs can play through double teams and excel. Harrison, Moss, and Owens are prime examples. However, Boston has not shown that same ability, except for one season... and he is two unremarkable seasons removed from that performance. He did not show that ability in San Diego last season, and those studies above suggest that playing with Chambers will not help him.In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that, when Boston is healthy, he will draw more doubles than Chambers. In Chambers' first two seasons, I would think he drew the majority of double teams from Miami's opponents. So, if anyone is likely to benefit here, it is Chambers IMO.

James McKnight had 6 and Derrius Thompson had 5. (McKnight, Thompson and Chambers all had the same number of goalline targets - 2). THere's 11 right there. Now, add in that while Chambers is a very good receiver, he's not 6'2, 230 and all muscle. The mere fact that Boston can physically muscle the ball as well as anyone in the league will garner him a fair number of redzone targets. Now, add in that I'd be surprised if the Dolphins didn't throw it more (Norv is gone, Ricky is showing wear and tear) and I'd say 18 redzone targets is plenty reasonable.

Lots of thoughts here.First off, it seems that you are assuming that no Miami WR other than Boston and Chambers will get any red zone targets, as you are assigning all WR2 and WR3 targets from last season to Boston. I assume there will still be a #3 WR playing at times, and I would further assume that guy will get at least a few looks.Secondly, you imply that Boston's presence will reduce Chambers' red zone targets. The thing is, Chambers is the one who had 11 TDs last season. Boston's career high is 8, and he had 7 last season. Chambers has averaged 7.1 TDs per 16 games in his career to Boston's 5.7. And that included a 3 TD second season when Ray Lucas was the starting QB for 7 games. (Now there is a bad QB for you.)What evidence is there that Boston will be favored over Chambers? "The mere fact that Boston can physically muscle the ball as well as anyone in the league" is not evidence, and has not led to many TDs for Boston in the past.Third, you suggest one reason for Boston to get the lion's share of the red zone targets is that he is "6'2, 230 and all muscle." Meanwhile, you completely dismissed McMichael earlier... McMichael is 6'3", 250 and is generally considered to be a difficult matchup for either linebackers or safeties. Please explain the difference in your thinking here.

What's "paltry" about 25 career TDs in 70 games? The teams he has played for have passed for, cumulatively, 83 touchdowns while Boston was on the roster (I've included TDs from when he was hurt and not playing). Boston has accounted for 30% of his teams' TDs to WR. I'm not sure why thats such a bad number (the best WRs, like Moss, are in the mid 40% range).

Well, let's be specific. Boston claimed 25 of the 71 TD passes thrown in games in which he played in his career, a nice percentage of 35.2%. However, Chambers has 21 of the 55 TDs thrown in the games in which he has played, an even nicer percentage of 38.2%. Tell me again why Boston is going to take looks away from Chambers...?The reason I termed Boston's TD total as paltry is in reference to him being a top 10 WR. In the past 5 seasons, only 7 WRs have made the top 10 with less than 8 TDs, which is Boston's career high. Those 7 WRs averaged 1422 receiving yards.So you must either be predicting a career year for Boston in TDs or at least his second best year in terms of yardage (and the best WR season in Miami since at least Irving Fryar in 1994). And while we are on the subject of yardage, Wannstedt has not had a single 1000 yard receiver in 4 seasons, and Chambers is the only one of his receivers to break 800 yards.---So, to summarize, Boston is going to a team that has averaged only about 83% of the pass attempts as the teams that Boston played for in his 3 top 20 seasons. And that team has more quality targets besides Boston than his previous teams. The evidence doesn't seem to support a case for Boston to get either the yards or the TDs necessary to reach top 10, yet that is your prediction.I'll give you credit for making a bold prediction and sticking to it. I just don't see any evidence to back it up. In fact, going through this debate has lowered my opinion of Boston further... I probably wouldn't consider him before the 7th or later now.Interesting debate. Looking forward to what you come up with next.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Well, I disagree with JWB, but a good post none the less.Sometimes I think we rely too much on "evidence". When the Dolphins call pass plays, I doubt that the %'s of passes thrown to Chambers and Boston will be a factor as to whose # is called.I like Chambers, but IMO, he doesn't have anywhere near the raw talent that Boston has. When it comes do to it, I think the Phins will make an effort to get the ball in the hands of the best playmaker on the field. And when David Boston is heathly (mentally and physically), he's the best athlete on the field. Period.I'll certainly be interested in the situation this season, as I believe that talent wins out more often than not. So I'll likely own Boston in several leagues.Great thread.

 

[joffer]

I like Chambers, but IMO, he doesn't have anywhere near the raw talent that Boston has.

Other than raw physical size, is there anything else you think Boston has that Chambers doesn't, or that Boston does better than Chambers?

 

[TheFanatic]

Boston's Raw physical talent is undisputed. But what I question is his head and his heart. He has shown to his last 2 teams that his head and his heart weren't with either. He threatened to come down with an injury if he couldn't have a girl in his room when he played in Arizona? Yikes. He was suspended for a game in S. D. and was allowed to walk after just one year after signing that huge bonus. That speaks volumes. I mean, maybe the weight loss is a step in the right direction. But I need to see the guy play through pain, and stay focused game in, game out, play in, play out. He was focused in a couple of games last year and tore it up. But in most of the games he wasn't and played like a chump. There is nothing more painful to watch than wasted potential.

 

[Loco Barlow]

He threatened to come down with an injury if he couldn't have a girl in his room when he played in Arizona? Yikes.

Link?

 

[TheFanatic]

He threatened to come down with an injury if he couldn't have a girl in his room when he played in Arizona? Yikes.

Link?

As many times as I've referenced this article, I would've assumed you would've caught this by now. The 4th post in the thread has the articleFrom the Article:

The low point came the night before a game in Seattle, in the second week of the season. During bed check, Greene says, a coach found a woman in Boston's room. When the woman was asked to leave, Boston's response was, "If she goes, I don't play. I'll come down with an injury." So the girl stayed. And Boston played. "Putting your personal needs in front of the team," says Greene, "that's not an environment I grew up in."

 

[Colin Dowling]

[No message]

 

[Loco Barlow]

As many times as I've referenced this article, I would've assumed you would've caught this by now. The 4th post in the thread has the article

That's about as interesting as the tabloids I see at the supermarket while standing in line. Did you know Jennifer Lopez gave birth yesterday to siamese twins, no kidding. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[ravnzfan]

start em, zero, sit em, td

well, ko-jack...not far from the truththe #'s FF/ppg(high-low, not week-week)30-25-14-10...a couple nice ones, with some expected also9-8-6...WTF...you're hurting me, you F up!3,2,2,1,1,0,0...2 DNP's...9 weeks/9 ptshe won a couple for me...but lost a couple moreas a 6th round draft choice, I liked the upside he potentially had---the problems w/him forced me to make a trade, which was Garner/Barlow for Moss...obviously worked out OK, and I won the league---w/a 'left handed' thank you to Mr Bostonthis year...he'll do fine, because the ravnzfan ain't touching this guy w/a 10 ft pole!

 

[TheFanatic]

As many times as I've referenced this article, I would've assumed you would've caught this by now. The 4th post in the thread has the article

That's about as interesting as the tabloids I see at the supermarket while standing in line. Did you know Jennifer Lopez gave birth yesterday to siamese twins, no kidding. Don't believe everything you read.

That's not a Super Market Tabloid, or some FFB Rag, that's ESPN the Magazine....I believe there is a specific link to the ESPN Mag website in the thread, but I'm done doing research for you since you are obviously too narrow minded to even look for evidense that counters what you think... I love closed minded people. Something like this stares them in the face and they use some ridiculous logic to counter it rather than be open to the distinct possibility that they are wrong about something.....Good luck with that. And remember, there's always 2005!!!Seriously?!?!?! Super Maket tabloid?!?!?

 

[Loco Barlow]

you are obviously too narrow minded to even look for evidense

Oh, the irony.

 

[Tau837]

I'm expecting Ricky not to carry the ball 380+ times again this season. Between not wanting to continue to wear Ricky down and realizing that they now have more than one decent WR, the Dolphins should pass more... Offensive philosophies are not stagnant. The Dolphins lost to the Texans and the Patriots because they couldn't move the ball in crunch time. While you and I are busy typing on message boards, Head-on-the-block Wanny has likely been scouring film saying things like, "This would have been a great time for play action....we should have thrown a screen here...." etc.

You didn't answer my question. Even if they do pass more, how much more? They have averaged less than 450 pass attempts in Wanny's 4 seasons as head coach. Boston's Arizona and San Diego teams averaged 535 pass attempts in his 3 good seasons. Are you expecting that type of number from Miami? Or are you expecting a smaller increase that will all go to Boston?

Of course other WRs will get some attention in the Redzone, but to blanketly say, "Chambers will get his, McMichael gets his, there's none left for Boston" borders on ridiculous.

I didn't say there is none left for Boston. What I said is that I don't expect he will get 18 red zone looks this season, which is the number he got last season.

Do you think the QB, whoever it may be, is going to throw the ball to Chris-Chambers-Covered-by-Ty-Law or David-Boston-Covered-by-Eugene-Wilson?

What makes you assume Ty Law will cover Chambers rather than Boston? I agree that whichever of them is covered by Law in this scenario will not likely see the ball. I'm just not so sure that the #1 CB will be on Chambers rather than Boston.

Cris Carter had 13 TDs the year before Randy Moss came to town. THe nezt year, he had 11 to Randy's 17. As I said before, offensive philosophies change.

Oh, well, it's not like Randy Moss is a special player or anything. I guess that proves it, then, since it is clear that Boston is in that same category.

David Boston is almost impossible to cover in close quarters. Why does he not have more TDs? Who knows.

Well, that is the question. Apparently, you are willing to write it off to Who knows and I'm not. Agree to disagree, I guess.

You're joking, right? You're going to actually use an argument with a 3% differential and think it has legs?

My point is that Chambers has been just as much of a playmaker as Boston. There is no reason to think Miami will suddenly divert all of its playmaking opportunities, whether deep balls or red zone targets, to Boston over Chambers. Particularly when Chambers is the Miami incumbent who has already performed well for the team.

Boston lined up with Rob Moore (9300 yards, 49TDs) and Frank Sanders (6800 yards, 24 TDs) during his first couple years in Arizona. In other words, they actually had someone other than him to throw the ball to.

Boston played with Rob Moore for one season, his rookie season. In that season, Boston had 40/473/2 receiving. If that's a sign of what he will do when there are other talented targets, such as Miami has with Chambers and McMichael, I don't see how it supports your point.And, incidentally, none of Boston's teams ever had another WR put up a season close to Chambers' performance last year.As for Sanders, it is funny to see you using him as an example of a good player who took away opportunities from Boston, after dismissed him earlier in the thread:

Now, lets look as the All-Pros that have lined up opposite Boston: Reche Caldwell and Frank Sanders. Awesome, really.

Which is it? Was Sanders a quality target who took away opportunities or a poor complementary player that allowed the opposing defenses to focus exclusively on Boston? You're talking out of both sides here.

You make it sound like Wannstedt is opposed to throwing the ball. We may just disagree here: I think that the reason they haven't had a productive reciever is because (a) the WRs haven't been that good (b) the quarterback hasn't been that good and © the running back has been plenty good. The way I see it, the quarterback play will be improved (albeit slightly), the running back's contribution will be reduced and the WRs are better as a group.

No, I don't think he is opposed to throwing. His Chicago teams actually threw a lot, though that was at least in part because they were often trailing. But two of your three factors remain the same IMO: I don't think the QB has improved, and the RB is still plenty good. And you probably missed another factor: the defense has been good, meaning there is not a lot of garbage time opportunities for the passing game. I think that will hold true this year. I do agree that Miami enters this season with their most talented receiving group in a long time, so that should help a bit.

Your comment in bold is simply not true. The 2003 Chargers had Tomlinson and the earlier Arizona teams had Sanders and Moore, all of whom are better receivers than anyone Chambers has played with.

I think you misunderstood my point. This season, Boston will play in an offense with Chambers, McMichael, and Williams. Williams has 157 receptions in the past 3 seasons, so while he is not LT, he is no slouch.In the past, Boston played in a SD offense with LT and crap. And he played in an Arizona offense with... crap. My point was that this season, there will be more viable targets in the offense in which Boston plays than in other seasons of his career. This would seem to work against an uptick in his numbers.

I'm assuming that means you have him in the WR30's range? I have a deal to offer that should appeal to you. Let me know where you have Boston ranked and where you would select him and I'll post the details....

I don't have a complete set of rankings, so I can't give you a number. I'm comfortable saying he won't be in my top 25. And comfortable saying I will have Chambers ranked higher.

 

[Tau837]

By the way, Colin, since you think Ricky Williams is going to have reduced carries, I'm interested in your projections for him. I notice that the FBG rankings show that you have him ranked as the #9 RB. Care to post your projections?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I like Chambers, but IMO, he doesn't have anywhere near the raw talent that Boston has.

Other than raw physical size, is there anything else you think Boston has that Chambers doesn't, or that Boston does better than Chambers?

Physically, just size. Both are extremely fast, and neither have great hands. But Boston is just so much bigger. 3 inches and 15 pounds makes a huge difference against smaller corners.Boston and Chambers are both the same age (Chambers is a week older), yet this will be Boston's 6th season in the NFL, and Chambers' 4th. I think to a certain extent, fantasy wise, Boston is a victim of his own success. Fantasy owners are disappointed in Boston when he "only" catches 70 passes for 900 yards in 14 games. Yet Chambers seemed to bust out last year, with a career high 64 catches and 960 yards. Chambers out TD'd Boston 11-7, but predicting TDs for WRs is almost like predicting injuries. And if Boston would have played all 16 like Chambers, their fantasy point numbers would have been all but equal.Simply put, a down year from Boston is roughly equivilant to a career year from Chambers. Yet we know that Boston can lead the league in receiving in a career year. Can Chambers?Considering the fact that Boston is going after Chambers in most drafts, and I think it's fairly clear that Boston is the value play this year.

 

[TheFanatic]

you are obviously too narrow minded to even look for evidense

Oh, the irony.

Another weak shot at what is staring you in the face. Mocking my spelling ability (the victem of a spell check society!! :JoeT: ) and comparing ESPN the Mag to a tabloid. Compelling stuff you're brought up there. Care to bring anything substantive to the table to counter the fact that his head and heart have been somewhere besides football (save a few games here and there) over the last 2 yeasr? Because until you do you are wasting my time....

 

[tommyGunZ]

you are obviously too narrow minded to even look for evidense

Oh, the irony.

Another weak shot at what is staring you in the face. Mocking my spelling ability (the victem of a spell check society!! :JoeT: ) and comparing ESPN the Mag to a tabloid. Compelling stuff you're brought up there. Care to bring anything substantive to the table to counter the fact that his head and heart have been somewhere besides football (save a few games here and there) over the last 2 yeasr? Because until you do you are wasting my time....

The counter is - if Boston's head and heart are there for 16 games, he's a top 3 WR. Ability isn't a question.At what point do you take a chance that his heart and head are there? 6th round? 7th round?

Remember, if you take Boston, and his head and heart are there, you're getting a top 15 overall player with a 6th or 7th round pick. If not, you're getting a 6th or 7th round player with your 6th or 7th round pick.

Where's the downside/risk?

 

[TheFanatic]

you are obviously too narrow minded to even look for evidense

Oh, the irony.

Another weak shot at what is staring you in the face. Mocking my spelling ability (the victem of a spell check society!! :JoeT: ) and comparing ESPN the Mag to a tabloid. Compelling stuff you're brought up there. Care to bring anything substantive to the table to counter the fact that his head and heart have been somewhere besides football (save a few games here and there) over the last 2 yeasr? Because until you do you are wasting my time....

The counter is - if Boston's head and heart are there for 16 games, he's a top 3 WR. Ability isn't a question.At what point do you take a chance that his heart and head are there? 6th round? 7th round?

Remember, if you take Boston, and his head and heart are there, you're getting a top 15 overall player with a 6th or 7th round pick. If not, you're getting a 6th or 7th round player with your 6th or 7th round pick.

Where's the downside/risk?

Oh, I agree with you if he's there in the 6th or 7th he's a great pick even if he falls flat on his face. Those are the kind of picks that will, if they pay off, get you to the playoffs and maybe even a championship. But, as I said in another thread, someone will reach for him earlier than the 6th or 7th. Someone will take him too early, and then he's a bad pick. All of this is a moot point for me since I'm in a dynasty league and he's under contract on another team.

And to clarify, his head and his heart have to be in the game AND he has to remain healthy to be a stud again. Not carrying so much bulk is the first step - done. Playing with pain is the second - jury is still out as to whether he does this.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Oh, I agree with you if he's there in the 6th or 7th he's a great pick even if he falls flat on his face. Those are the kind of picks that will, if they pay off, get you to the playoffs and maybe even a championship. But, as I said in another thread, someone will reach for him earlier than the 6th or 7th. Someone will take him too early, and then he's a bad pick. All of this is a moot point for me since I'm in a dynasty league and he's under contract on another team.And to clarify, his head and his heart have to be in the game AND he has to remain healthy to be a stud again. Not carrying so much bulk is the first step - done. Playing with pain is the second - jury is still out as to whether he does this.

So you're saying that Boston is a "reach" if someone "reaches" for him? Is that your point?BTW, in the 5 Survivor drafts in the mock draft forum, Boston has gone (overall): 82, 81, 88, 86, and 88. In a 12 team league, that's an average draft position of 85th overall or pick 8.01.Care to comment?

 

[Tau837]

In a 12 team league, that's an average draft position of 85th overall or pick 8.01.Care to comment?

I think you mean 7.1

No, 85 = 7 full rounds of 12 + 1 = 8.1.Even I would take him there.

 

[TheFanatic]

Oh, I agree with you if he's there in the 6th or 7th he's a great pick even if he falls flat on his face. Those are the kind of picks that will, if they pay off, get you to the playoffs and maybe even a championship.

But, as I said in another thread, someone will reach for him earlier than the 6th or 7th. Someone will take him too early, and then he's a bad pick. All of this is a moot point for me since I'm in a dynasty league and he's under contract on another team.

And to clarify, his head and his heart have to be in the game AND he has to remain healthy to be a stud again. Not carrying so much bulk is the first step - done. Playing with pain is the second - jury is still out as to whether he does this.

So you're saying that Boston is a "reach" if someone "reaches" for him? Is that your point?BTW, in the 5 Survivor drafts in the mock draft forum, Boston has gone (overall): 82, 81, 88, 86, and 88. In a 12 team league, that's an average draft position of 85th overall or pick 8.01.

Care to comment?

Seriously, this is such a moot point for me. My draft consists of rookies and free agents. As for the average pick in the Survivor league drafts, you have to consider that these are extremely dedicated FFB enthusiasts who are drafting in late may/early june. The majority of leagues out there are not filled with people from top to bottom that visit FFB websites daily in May....So I'm saying that those numbers are a little skewed as to the natural distribution across the nation. Just take a look at how closely he is taken in a all those drafts. There's only 7 a spot difference between all 5 drafts. No outliers. No schmuck that has a stiffy for him grabbing him in the 5th as a WR2.

Not sure your logic on what entails a reach and what words you are trying to put in my mouth, so let me clarify a bit. Someone who reaches in the 5th makes a bad pick unless Boston vastly improves on his 800 and 7 last year (most of which was in a couple of games). But if you have your core in place, QB, RB1, RB2, WR1 WR2, possibly a TE, RB3, or WR3 on the roster and then take a flyer on this guy in the 7th or 8th without having to rely on him then you would be in good shape. Then he can't disappoint all but a couple of weeks and kill you in the standings as you lose game after game because your WR2 has his head up his butt instead of dominating with the raw talent that is highly evident.

Quick question for Barlow. Isn't about time for you to jump in and refute the logic in one or more of my posts by pointing out grammatical or punctuation errors?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Attn: Just Win Baby.

I don't have a complete set of rankings, so I can't give you a number. I'm comfortable saying he won't be in my top 25. And comfortable saying I will have Chambers ranked higher.

I mentioned a "deal" I had for you earlier. Here are the terms...If David Boston finishes in the top-24 of receivers - thus making him a viable WR2 in Fantasy Football and having him finish ahead of your ranking (posted above), I win.

If he finishes WR25 or worse, you win.

If you win, I'll pay for your FBguy subscription for the 2005 season.

If I win, you simply have to bump this thread with a post that says where Boston finished the year.

Thats it. Deal?

Colin

 

[Tau837]

Attn: Just Win Baby.

I don't have a complete set of rankings, so I can't give you a number. I'm comfortable saying he won't be in my top 25. And comfortable saying I will have Chambers ranked higher.

I mentioned a "deal" I had for you earlier. Here are the terms...If David Boston finishes in the top-24 of receivers - thus making him a viable WR2 in Fantasy Football and having him finish ahead of your ranking (posted above), I win.

If he finishes WR25 or worse, you win.

If you win, I'll pay for your FBguy subscription for the 2005 season.

If I win, you simply have to bump this thread with a post that says where Boston finished the year.

Thats it. Deal?

Colin

Deal.

 

[TheFanatic]

Hmmmm......A whole lot of people need to be eating some crow. I think I need to forward on that Sig Bet still in my mailbox back to FallerJW on this guy.And just to talley it upJust Win Baby and TheFanatic get a pointTommyGunz, COlin and FallerJW are all at 0 on this one....Thanks for playing fellas.....

 

[Tau837]

Attn: Just Win Baby.

I don't have a complete set of rankings, so I can't give you a number. I'm comfortable saying he won't be in my top 25. And comfortable saying I will have Chambers ranked higher.

I mentioned a "deal" I had for you earlier. Here are the terms...If David Boston finishes in the top-24 of receivers - thus making him a viable WR2 in Fantasy Football and having him finish ahead of your ranking (posted above), I win.

If he finishes WR25 or worse, you win.

If you win, I'll pay for your FBguy subscription for the 2005 season.

If I win, you simply have to bump this thread with a post that says where Boston finished the year.

Thats it. Deal?

Colin

Deal.

Colin, I won't hold you to the bet even though its terms didn't address a season ending (preventing) injury. Still, I am not at all surprised by this... one of my points was that I didn't expect Boston to play a full season.

 

[TheFanatic]

Colin, I won't hold you to the bet even though its terms didn't address a season ending (preventing) injury. Still, I am not at all surprised by this... one of my points was that I didn't expect Boston to play a full season.

That's big of you JWB. I of course won't be as nice to FallerJW because our Sig bet specifically mentions that Boston's Tendons and Ligaments in his knees and/or ankles would not hold up to the extra weight he put on his upper body. While I love being right, and I do mean Love , I don't like seeing a guy go down for the season. I was predicting more of a few games here and there due to injury and him spacing out on a few games here and there and dominating the rest but all in all having a poor season. I don't like be right about something when it means that Boston may not have another chance in the NFL after this.....

 

[TheFanatic]

Just thought I would bring this one back to the top. Please note those showing their man love for this guy before the season. Funny, the latest revelation shocked nobody yet these guys were pimping this guy hard.....

 

[cstu]

Just thought I would bring this one back to the top. Please note those showing their man love for this guy before the season. Funny, the latest revelation shocked nobody yet these guys were pimping this guy hard.....

What does that have to do with his expected fantasy value? If he put up 30 points a game you wouldn't care if he ate babies for breakfast.

 

[Hendo]

David is probably on a heavy dose of clembuterial

 

[taylorj99]

Why doesn't anyone bring up old threads that they completely missed the mark on? I don't know, but maybe they just like tooting their own horns. Maybe we need some more urine detector in the pool?

 

[placeholder10391]

Just thought I would bring this one back to the top. Please note those showing their man love for this guy before the season. Funny, the latest revelation shocked nobody yet these guys were pimping this guy hard.....

You're the coolest. I have absolutely no idea what correlation there is between the "latest revelation" and David Boston's fantasy football performance, but you must just be that much smarter than everyone else. Obviously the people pimping him on this thread presumed he would not suffer a season-ending injury.Why don't you go dig up some Ricky Williams threads circa May 2004 when people were saying he was gonna be a top-5 back. Man, you sure showed them...:douchebagsayswhat:

 

[Tatonka]

even if he didnt get hurt, he is still in trouble again for roids and beating up an old guy in an airport.. but i still dont get the point of bringing this back up still..

 

[rant]

David is probably on a heavy dose of clembuterial

Clen is not illegal, although I don't know what the NFL's stance on this would be in their drug policy

 

[TheFanatic]

Just thought I would bring this one back to the top. Please note those showing their man love for this guy before the season. Funny, the latest revelation shocked nobody yet these guys were pimping this guy hard.....

You're the coolest. I have absolutely no idea what correlation there is between the "latest revelation" and David Boston's fantasy football performance, but you must just be that much smarter than everyone else. Obviously the people pimping him on this thread presumed he would not suffer a season-ending injury.Why don't you go dig up some Ricky Williams threads circa May 2004 when people were saying he was gonna be a top-5 back. Man, you sure showed them...:douchebagsayswhat:

Actually, I DID predict the injury. FallerJW lost a sig bet based on this. I said his knees and ankles wouldn't hold up and they didn't. Predicting an injury is pretty hard to do. Yet I pulled it off in the face of some pretty impressive football minds pimping this guy.BTW, Salmon Studd will be losing a sig bet soon concerning Priest's ranking at the end of the year. Guess what I based the bet on there? Yep, an injury. Of course with that one, I had to predict the same thing for 2 years in a row. Sooner or later I would get it right!!!What does Ricky Williams have to do with this? I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

That people who bump their own threads to get recognition from the forum community are pathetic. Let others do the bumping/pimping for you. If you have to pimp yourself, you're the ho not the pimp.

 

[jurb26]

Just thought I would bring this one back to the top.  Please note those showing their man love for this guy before the season.  Funny, the latest revelation shocked nobody yet these guys were pimping this guy hard.....

You're the coolest. I have absolutely no idea what correlation there is between the "latest revelation" and David Boston's fantasy football performance, but you must just be that much smarter than everyone else. Obviously the people pimping him on this thread presumed he would not suffer a season-ending injury.Why don't you go dig up some Ricky Williams threads circa May 2004 when people were saying he was gonna be a top-5 back. Man, you sure showed them...:douchebagsayswhat:

Actually, I DID predict the injury. FallerJW lost a sig bet based on this. I said his knees and ankles wouldn't hold up and they didn't. Predicting an injury is pretty hard to do. Yet I pulled it off in the face of some pretty impressive football minds pimping this guy.BTW, Salmon Studd will be losing a sig bet soon concerning Priest's ranking at the end of the year. Guess what I based the bet on there? Yep, an injury. Of course with that one, I had to predict the same thing for 2 years in a row. Sooner or later I would get it right!!!What does Ricky Williams have to do with this? I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

Yeah, it was a VERY COMMON arguement this past offseason that Boston would get injuried due to his substance use and sketchy work out habits.

 

[placeholder10391]

Actually, I DID predict the injury. FallerJW lost a sig bet based on this. I said his knees and ankles wouldn't hold up and they didn't. Predicting an injury is pretty hard to do. Yet I pulled it off in the face of some pretty impressive football minds pimping this guy.BTW, Salmon Studd will be losing a sig bet soon concerning Priest's ranking at the end of the year. Guess what I based the bet on there? Yep, an injury. Of course with that one, I had to predict the same thing for 2 years in a row. Sooner or later I would get it right!!!What does Ricky Williams have to do with this? I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

You're a genius.

 

[TheFanatic]

I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

That people who bump their own threads to get recognition from the forum community are pathetic. Let others do the bumping/pimping for you. If you have to pimp yourself, you're the ho not the pimp.

This from a guy on the board all of 2 weeks. I've been on this board for more than 3 years now. I have plenty of board cred. Before you start bashing mine, you might want to build up some of your own....

 

[placeholder10391]

This from a guy on the board all of 2 weeks.  I've been on this board for more than 3 years now.  I have plenty of board cred.  Before you start bashing mine, you might want to build up some of your own....

What do we care about less, theFanatic's "board cred" or Oolong's photo diary?Hey theFanatic, your opinions are thoroughly appreciated.There is nothing I hate more than the bald assumption that one person's opinion is worth more than another's simply because one person registered on this forum before another. Because I guess the NFL and fantasy football don't exist outside of this domain name...

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I never pimped the guy so what are you saying?

That people who bump their own threads to get recognition from the forum community are pathetic. Let others do the bumping/pimping for you. If you have to pimp yourself, you're the ho not the pimp.

This isn't TheFanatic's thread. It's Loco Barlow's thread.

 

[TheFanatic]

This from a guy on the board all of 2 weeks.  I've been on this board for more than 3 years now.  I have plenty of board cred.  Before you start bashing mine, you might want to build up some of your own....

What do we care about less, theFanatic's "board cred" or Oolong's photo diary?Hey theFanatic, your opinions are thoroughly appreciated.There is nothing I hate more than the bald assumption that one person's opinion is worth more than another's simply because one person registered on this forum before another. Because I guess the NFL and fantasy football don't exist outside of this domain name...

I hate guys that bash people for being right. That's great. I get the call right and I get knocked down a notch because I yanked my own chain? It's good to remind people of what some of the top minds on this board are doing whether right or wrong. I also hate inane links in a post that make no sense and blatant insults. Grow up. I can't believe you mentioned board cred in that post with those links. I don't happen to like newbies that come on the board and start ripping me about something that has nothing to do with Fantasy Football. He doesn't rip the fact that I was right, he rips the fact that I pointed it out. I had the balls to go on the record and place a sig bet on this guy. It was mentioned that everyone was thinking the same thing I was. Well know one else jumped on that bet. Sure everyone is thinking it now, but back then there wasn't more outcry that the guy was using the roids. I have every right to bump this thread since my premise for making the predictions I did was because I knew he was taking roids. Others claimed he didn't. I watched Loco Barlow bump this thread or create others every time a blurp appeared about Boston in the media. I tore those to shreds. I placed a sig bet based on performance and won the bet. The basis for my bet was steroids. I was right about his performance and right about the roids. If you don't like that then go whine somewhere else....Or maybe come back with more stupid links....Or maybe you could notice that I didn't rip his knowledge of Fantasy Football in any way. I simply ripped him fro showing bad form. That my friend is a perfectly acceptable criticism of a n00b. Please point out exactly where I knocked his knowledge of football based on the date he signed up. After that work on your reading comprehension skills....

 

[RBM]

Lets get this guy healthy and in a Bears uniform asap

 

[Hamstring]

BEARS! I had this guy on my fanatsy team and cried all the way to the Superbowl. His huge year. That AZ team he was on was junk.