Goodbye Rams (1 Viewer)

[bulger2holt]

Chargers and Raiders to Carson and Rams remaining in STL with their new stadium makes the most sense. All three teams get a new stadium

It's not just about a new stadium. It's also about a huge revenue stream for whomever is in LA. The Rams, Chargers, or Raiders will make more money in LA than their respective cities.

i agree. HUGE PSL and corporate money for them. I just think the Chargers and Raiders should have first option to that market. It's not all about making Kronke more money.

It is to Kroenke

I don't think enriching Kroenke will come into play when the league votes. The improtant factor is deciding which project helps the most teams. Carson + STL = 3 teams get new stadiums

Kroenke doesn't have to abide by what the league votes. Other owners have moved without the consent of the league. And the guy is the second richest if not richest owner in the league. The most they can do is fine the guy and there is really no way to hurt the guy financially. They could possibly take draft picks, but then that's punishing the fans of the Rams.

Things have changed. The owners say they can definitely stop an owner from going rogue with withholding revenues and other things too. Kroenke will not go rogue. He is waiting for the vote to happen, which is coming in December. This is also different because you have another group wanting the same place.

 

[Tau837]

It was a turning point in my thinking when Jerry Jones came out in favor of Kroenke moving the Rams to LA. Jones pointed out that it is important for the NFL that when one or more teams move to LA, they can sustain long term success there. Jones seems to feel that Kroenke's deep pockets make that more likely, and Jones is a very influential owner.

Also, by this line of thinking, the Raiders have been in LA and essentially failed. So why give them another chance at something so important to the league. The Chargers haven't really failed there, but Spanos most assuredly does not have deep pockets, at least not like Kroenke's.

IMO the Rams are a lock to move. The only remaining question is whether or not another team moves to LA with them. If so, it seems very likely to be the Chargers over the Raiders.

 

[bulger2holt]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

 

[bulger2holt]

Heard many owners are on Spanos and Davis' side because they think Carson solves both their stadium issues.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

Kroenke has practically broken ground at his site in Inglewood. He is so far ahead of Carson in the race to Los Angeles, I just don't see any way he can lose this race.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Lets just move all the teams to LA

 

[bulger2holt]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

Kroenke has practically broken ground at his site in Inglewood. He is so far ahead of Carson in the race to Los Angeles, I just don't see any way he can lose this race.

It's not a race. The NFL will vote and decide who gets LA. Kroenke hasn't broken any ground and doesn't have the permits. The ground that has been broken is infrastucture work that is needed for anything to be built there. Something is going there. Possbile Wal-Mart too.

 

[cstu]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

Kroenke has practically broken ground at his site in Inglewood. He is so far ahead of Carson in the race to Los Angeles, I just don't see any way he can lose this race.

It's not a race. The NFL will vote and decide who gets LA. Kroenke hasn't broken any ground and doesn't have the permits. The ground that has been broken is infrastucture work that is needed for anything to be built there. Something is going there. Possbile Wal-Mart too.

No

It was a turning point in my thinking when Jerry Jones came out in favor of Kroenke moving the Rams to LA. Jones pointed out that it is important for the NFL that when one or more teams move to LA, they can sustain long term success there. Jones seems to feel that Kroenke's deep pockets make that more likely, and Jones is a very influential owner.

Also, by this line of thinking, the Raiders have been in LA and essentially failed. So why give them another chance at something so important to the league. The Chargers haven't really failed there, but Spanos most assuredly does not have deep pockets, at least not like Kroenke's.

IMO the Rams are a lock to move. The only remaining question is whether or not another team moves to LA with them. If so, it seems very likely to be the Chargers over the Raiders.

Which sucks IMO. The Rams moving to the LA makes sense, but the Chargers should stay in SD. If one of the California teams has to move it should be the Raiders who have no stadium in place and could move in with the Rams.

 

[bulger2holt]

NFL,"Stan, why do you want to move from STL even though they are building you a second publically funded stadium in 25 years?"

Stan," because I can make more money in LA"

NFL,"Stan, do you know YOUR team hasn't been to the playoffs or has had a winning record in 10+ years?

NFL."Stan, do you know YOUR team set the NFL record for going 15-65 in a 5 year span?"

Stan, "yeah. But I want to make more money"

NFL, "STL still draws 55,000+ every game and have watched YOUR team suck for 10+ years"

Stan, "I like money"

 

[sharptongued1]

Balzer is a blow hard......Carmen Policy is nothing but a pitchman for an environmentally unfriendly waste land....Kroenke is an actual owner that got up there and proposed a viable stadium plan for LA....no one in LA wants the Chargers and Spanos knows that ....he's living a dream.....and STL will be conveniently supplied a new team if they do build a new stadium.....soooooo

here it is boys,

Rams to LA.....99.999999% sure

Chargers stay in SD with new Stadium

STL gets a new team or JAX moves there .. IF they build a stadium ( which I DOUBT)

and the Raiders......they will be moving in with the 49ers

I just don't see how the Chargers stay in Whale's V@gina and get a new stadium. The city isn't footing the bill and Spanos ain't forking out the dough. Qualcomm is a dump though; so it's quite the quandary.

 

[JaxBill]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

 

[sharptongued1]

NFL,"Stan, why do you want to move from STL even though they are building you a second publically funded stadium in 25 years?"

Stan,"The citizenry doesn't want to build a stadium; state/local politicians are moving heaven and earth to come up with some hail mary plan after I already had one foot out the door."

NFL,"Stan, do you know YOUR team hasn't been to the playoffs or has had a winning record in 10+ years?

NFL."Stan, do you know YOUR team set the NFL record for going 15-65 in a 5 year span?"

Stan, "Which has no bearing on me wanting to move the franchise back to Los Angeles, you know, where it was for nearly three times as long as it's currently located."

NFL, "STL still draws 55,000+ every game and have watched YOUR team suck for 10+ years"

Stan, "Which annually has been near the bottom or at the bottom of stadium capacity percentage the entire time. For a stadium in the bottom third of seating capacity, that isn't a selling point."

 

[TheFanatic]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

 

[JaxBill]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

yes, you had to show your true stripes.

Good luck.

You'll need it

 

[bulger2holt]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

STL stadium requires $ 250 million from Kronke in their plan.....it's not 100 % PUBLIC FUNDING...Kronke will tell them to pound sand where the sun don't shine......

Wake up !

They are gone

The franchise value will increase much more than the 250 million with the new stadium. The STL taskforce said the Rams are very interested in the stadium and plans. Much more is going on behind the scene than is what is lead to believe.

 

[JaxBill]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

I never said Costas wasn't smart. I said he was an ####### in multiple sports. I also said he had no idea what was going on with the Jaguars and Jacksonville.

Like a lot of the national media, they don't want to be bothered to have to look for facts or trends.

- Despite a 1-7 home record, in-game attendance (at Everbank) went UP 3,000 and overall local revenues increased 23%

- The one game a year in London has been very successful for the bottom line. One little known fact is that the Jaguars are the only NFL team allowed to set up their own London sponsorships.

- As a result of the London games, the Jaguars are now the 9th most recognized NFL brand outside the US.

- Khan's business model includes marketing the Jaguars to his Fulham fans and vice versa.

- Not only is Jacksonville attendance rising but it is also getting younger. Supporters' group Bold City Brigade is comprised of mostly 20 somethings who grew up with the Jaguars and now have disposable income.

- Bold City Brigade is also organizing a "Tampa Takeover" with over 2,000 Jaguars fans making the trip to tailgate and take up a large section of seats right by the Pirate ship.

- Khan is waiting for City Council to approve the Shipyards plan in which he would supervise the development of forty-eight acres of prime waterfront land in close proximity to the stadium.

- Khan's son Tony is heavily involved in the analytics side of the franchise and has said how much he loves the city.

But, no, this positive Jaguars news is largely ignored by the national media.

 

[Jail]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

I thought I read that Jacksonville just got a bunch of public funding approved this year for stadium enhancements? I don't know for sure, but if that's true I doubt Jacksonville will be moving any time soon. If not, maybe there is something there.

IMO, teams will stay as long as they keep getting dumb politicians to hand them over big stacks of cash. If St. Louis made the current proposal a long time ago things might have turned out differently. Up until now they've shown better resolve, but now it seems like they are getting desperate and back to begging the billionaire to accept their free cash to stay. Does the local public show support for their current efforts? I'm curious if its just the politicians trying to make a name or genuine effort on behalf of their constituency.

As far as the revenue from TV ratings...isn't all TV revenue is shared? (except pre-season) If the size of the TV market were really such a driving force I don't think the NFL would have been away from LA for so long. IMO the reason things are getting hot in LA is because teams are starting to realize that it is getting harder to steal from their local cities.

 

[Chadstroma]

Heard many owners are on Spanos and Davis' side because they think Carson solves both their stadium issues.

The last thing I read in terms of rumor mill about the owner preference was the idea of the Rams/Chargers sharing a stadium because they did not think the Raiders had the cash to be part of the new stadium... which to me doesn't make much sense. If you think that they don't have the cash to share the costs with the Chargers then what the hell do you think they are doing to do on their own? It is so sad to see the Raiders stuck in that crap hole in Oakland.

 

[bulger2holt]

Heard many owners are on Spanos and Davis' side because they think Carson solves both their stadium issues.

The last thing I read in terms of rumor mill about the owner preference was the idea of the Rams/Chargers sharing a stadium because they did not think the Raiders had the cash to be part of the new stadium... which to me doesn't make much sense. If you think that they don't have the cash to share the costs with the Chargers then what the hell do you think they are doing to do on their own? It is so sad to see the Raiders stuck in that crap hole in Oakland.

The funding is already secured in Carson. Goldman Sachs is funding it

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

STL stadium requires $ 250 million from Kronke in their plan.....it's not 100 % PUBLIC FUNDING...Kronke will tell them to pound sand where the sun don't shine......

Wake up !

They are gone

The franchise value will increase much more than the 250 million with the new stadium. The STL taskforce said the Rams are very interested in the stadium and plans. Much more is going on behind the scene than is what is lead to believe.

If you know this behind the scenes info, then please divulge.

This is a classic case of a heartbroken Rams fan hoping against hope.

Try to come to grips with it.... it's over.

Listen, as Bill Clinton once said.... "I feel your pain".

I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that the Rams come back to Los Angeles.

 

[bulger2holt]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

STL stadium requires $ 250 million from Kronke in their plan.....it's not 100 % PUBLIC FUNDING...Kronke will tell them to pound sand where the sun don't shine......

Wake up !

They are gone

The franchise value will increase much more than the 250 million with the new stadium. The STL taskforce said the Rams are very interested in the stadium and plans. Much more is going on behind the scene than is what is lead to believe.

If you know this behind the scenes info, then please divulge.

This is a classic case of a heartbroken Rams fan hoping against hope.

Try to come to grips with it.... it's over.

Listen, as Bill Clinton once said.... "I feel your pain".

I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that the Rams come back to Los Angeles.

This was coming from Peacock and the task force, not me personally.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

I thought I read that Jacksonville just got a bunch of public funding approved this year for stadium enhancements? I don't know for sure, but if that's true I doubt Jacksonville will be moving any time soon. If not, maybe there is something there.

IMO, teams will stay as long as they keep getting dumb politicians to hand them over big stacks of cash. If St. Louis made the current proposal a long time ago things might have turned out differently. Up until now they've shown better resolve, but now it seems like they are getting desperate and back to begging the billionaire to accept their free cash to stay. Does the local public show support for their current efforts? I'm curious if its just the politicians trying to make a name or genuine effort on behalf of their constituency.

As far as the revenue from TV ratings...isn't all TV revenue is shared? (except pre-season) If the size of the TV market were really such a driving force I don't think the NFL would have been away from LA for so long. IMO the reason things are getting hot in LA is because teams are starting to realize that it is getting harder to steal from their local cities.

The State of Louisiana emptied the vault for Tom Benson, it's basically a quasi public venture here.

But the owners do want the stadiums, and so does the NFL. If tv revenue was meaningless, in the sense that it flows regardless of where the teams are, then it seems to me they wouldn't fight over the stadiums so much to begin with.

My beer now costs 11 bucks a pop. I think that offends me more than anything. It is better beer than the Dome Foam I used to get, but something about beer going into double digits galls me.

I'm pulling for the fans in all cities to keep their teams. It seems L.A. is the only place where the fans seem to be pretty lackadaisical about getting a team, they almost take pride in their apathy. I haven't gone out there too often but the locals seem amused by the idea, not enthralled by it. And yet they will be the ones getting rewarded with not one but perhaps two teams. Meanwhile St. Louis, SD, Jax, Oak, recently Minny, and past cities like Baltimore, Cleveland, get kicked if they don't pony up on demand,

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

 

[bulger2holt]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

Well, just based on population alone....there's probably at least the SAME amount of people interested than in their current cities...

according to the last poll in LA, LA favors the Raiders/Chargers to Carson way more than the Rams to Inglewood.

 

[TheFanatic]

Bob Costas was on the new Bernie Miklatz show here in St. Louis yesterday. He said the best move for the NFL and everyone involved is for the Rams and Chargers to go to LA and for the Jags to move to St. Louis. He stated while Shad Khan is spending a ton in Jacksonville, the market just can't sustain an NFL team. I caught a repeat of this interview and didn't hear all of it. No mention of where the Raiders would go in what I heard.

He said "the best move"? I'd think he would think the best move is what's best for St. Louis, his hometown.

In a way this makes sense and has been mentioned before, but there's zero reason for Khan personally to move to StL, even though conceptually (in terms of regional alignment) it solves "everything."

Sorry, he specifically said that taking out the fact that he would like football in his home town, he feels this is the best for everyone.

Kahn is from Champaign Illinois (about 3 hours away). At least for the last few decades. He bid on the Rams when Georgia died and Kroenke exercised his right of first refusal and matched the offer. The reason for Kahn to move out of Jacksonville is that the city can't support a team. It's just not big enough. Moving the team to St. Louis which can most definitely support a team, no matter what Kroenke says, would make sense as a destination in terms of Geography for Kahn and in terms of an established fanbase that can support teams...

First of all it's Khan, not Kahn

And Costas has no idea what he is talking about regarding the Jaguars or Jacksonville.

.

Ohhhh, you got me there. I put the H in the wrong spot. That's such a valid point in this discussion, I just don't know what else to say here. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Or maybe not. Costas knows more than just baseball and is a pretty keen intellect. But it doesn't take a keen intellect to know that Jacksonville just can't support a team. The NFL makes most of its revenue from the TV and Jacksonville is the 47th television market in the country. Let me break down what that means for you. I'll try to make sure at least one of my H's are not in the rihgt spots to give you sometihng to counter with, because nothing says "powerful argument" like grammatical and spelling jabs.

The NFL makes money by selling the TV rights to major networks who then make money by selling advertising during NFL games. The higher the television market, the more a network can charge for advertising and the more the NFL can charge for the contract. Filling the stadium is only part of the equation. The bigger part of the pot comes from how much networks can charge for advertising and thus how much the NFL can charge for the contract. It's hard to keep a team with the 47th television market unless a guy named Lombardi coached in your stadium and residents of the city actually own the team.

I'm pretty sure even a baseball guy like Bob Costas can figure that out. Maybe even a Jacksonville homer who can't separate the logic and intelligence of what he said from his passion for a team. Passion is admirable. But so is listening to what someone has to say on the merits of what is said and not on passion.

I really debated with myself about editing this post and making it much less harsh, but come on, "It's Khan, not Kahn" and "Costas is an idiot about football." I had to...

I never said Costas wasn't smart. I said he was an ####### in multiple sports. I also said he had no idea what was going on with the Jaguars and Jacksonville.

Like a lot of the national media, they don't want to be bothered to have to look for facts or trends.

- Despite a 1-7 home record, in-game attendance (at Everbank) went UP 3,000 and overall local revenues increased 23%

- The one game a year in London has been very successful for the bottom line. One little known fact is that the Jaguars are the only NFL team allowed to set up their own London sponsorships.

- As a result of the London games, the Jaguars are now the 9th most recognized NFL brand outside the US.

- Khan's business model includes marketing the Jaguars to his Fulham fans and vice versa.

- Not only is Jacksonville attendance rising but it is also getting younger. Supporters' group Bold City Brigade is comprised of mostly 20 somethings who grew up with the Jaguars and now have disposable income.

- Bold City Brigade is also organizing a "Tampa Takeover" with over 2,000 Jaguars fans making the trip to tailgate and take up a large section of seats right by the Pirate ship.

- Khan is waiting for City Council to approve the Shipyards plan in which he would supervise the development of forty-eight acres of prime waterfront land in close proximity to the stadium.

- Khan's son Tony is heavily involved in the analytics side of the franchise and has said how much he loves the city.

But, no, this positive Jaguars news is largely ignored by the national media.

Just like you ignore the fact that your city has terrible television viewership and that's a big deal to the league. We're all looking at this with our biased glasses on. We all want to keep our teams just like LA is sick of being used as leverage to get new stadiums in cities all over the country. With 2 teams there soon, I'm guessing that San Antonio will be the new bait and switch city for teams to bribe their cities into giving them tax payer millions.

 

[cstu]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

Well, just based on population alone....there's probably at least the SAME amount of people interested than in their current cities...

according to the last poll in LA, LA favors the Raiders/Chargers to Carson way more than the Rams to Inglewood.

That's no surprise since Carson means two popular California teams compared to a team that's been gone for 20 years. A better poll would have been Chargers/Raiders in Carson vs. Rams/Chargers and Rams/Raiders in Inglewood.

 

[Jail]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

Well, just based on population alone....there's probably at least the SAME amount of people interested than in their current cities...

according to the last poll in LA, LA favors the Raiders/Chargers to Carson way more than the Rams to Inglewood.

I feel for you man. You're having a hard time facing the facts, but even you should be able to see that a poll like that is completely meaningless.

 

[Chadstroma]

I really don't like that was floated about having the Chargers/Rams team up in L.A. and shipping the Raiders to S.D.

There is no way a fan base that hates the Raiders more than it loves the Chargers will support a transplanted Raider team and only so many Raider fans will drive the couple of hours south to hit up a Raider game in S.D., sure, it may look like a good idea on paper but it is ignoring the reality of the situation on the ground.

I really don't like the idea of a Charger/Raider sharing in L.A. but as a Raider fan, I don't see a viable alternative for the Raiders. The Rams do have a viable alternative but the owner just wants to go to L.A. because he knows the value of the team goes up if he does.

 

[Tau837]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

Agree with this. Allowing the Rams to move to LA without the Chargers would increase the Rams franchise value but would decrease the Chargers franchise value. I don't see the NFL supporting that.

For similar reasons, I don't think the NFL will allow the Rams to move ahead of a second team. IMO they will likely move the Rams and Chargers at the same time, and it seems too late for that to occur for 2016.

So I expect Rams and Chargers in Inglewood, officially moving to LA (in temporary locations if necessary) for the 2017 season.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I have to admit, this makes sense.

In other news, congrats, St. Louis, you get the Raiders!

 

[Marauder]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

 

[Chadstroma]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

Is OC considered LA market? I rarely came across a Charger fan growing up in the burbs of LA. Most of the non-SD Charger fans I knew were transplants from SD or lived/from OC.

 

[GDogg]

Spanos and Davis said they are fully committed to Carson. Don't think the NFL is going to side with Kroenke over those 2, especially when STL gets their funding 100% approved, which is about to happen.

STL stadium requires $ 250 million from Kronke in their plan.....it's not 100 % PUBLIC FUNDING...Kronke will tell them to pound sand where the sun don't shine......

Wake up !

They are gone

The franchise value will increase much more than the 250 million with the new stadium. The STL taskforce said the Rams are very interested in the stadium and plans. Much more is going on behind the scene than is what is lead to believe.

I admire your resolve, but this is a done deal. The Los Angeles Rams are coming home.

 

[GDogg]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

Yes to the bolded.

 

[bulger2holt]

Spanos wants no part of partnering with Kroenke and playing second fiddle. He is 100% committed to Carson with Davis and the Raiders. With STL offereing up 400 million in public funding, I just don't see anyway the NFL approves Inglewood. Inglewood screws over Spanos, Davis and STL.

 

[cstu]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

Is OC considered LA market? I rarely came across a Charger fan growing up in the burbs of LA. Most of the non-SD Charger fans I knew were transplants from SD or lived/from OC.

Was that when the Rams and Raiders were here? Wouldn't expect a lot of LA/OC Chargers fans in those days, but for the past 20 years the Chargers have been the only SoCal team. I haven't had season tickets but usually drive from LA to go to 2-3 games a year (less now with a kid though).

 

[Jail]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

Is OC considered LA market? I rarely came across a Charger fan growing up in the burbs of LA. Most of the non-SD Charger fans I knew were transplants from SD or lived/from OC.

Yeah, pretty sure that they lump in OC and also the Inland Empire when the talk about the "LA Market." Lots of Charger fans in the IE, especially Corona. All of the local youth leagues in Corona carry the Charger name. Its not that much more of a drive to go to SD than it would be to go to Inglewood.

 

[Chadstroma]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

Is OC considered LA market? I rarely came across a Charger fan growing up in the burbs of LA. Most of the non-SD Charger fans I knew were transplants from SD or lived/from OC.

Was that when the Rams and Raiders were here? Wouldn't expect a lot of LA/OC Chargers fans in those days, but for the past 20 years the Chargers have been the only SoCal team. I haven't had season tickets but usually drive from LA to go to 2-3 games a year (less now with a kid though).

Growing up it was with the Raiders/Rams there but this was on through 2003 when I came out to Chicago. I remember the first time I came across a Charger fan and was shocked... found out he grew up in SD and that was the reason. Never found many Rams fans either. A few, here and there, but by far the most supported team was the Raiders even well after they left amongst the people I knew.

Being in OC it prob is an easier drive to a Charger game than it ever was to see the Raiders or Rams. I seem to remember OC being kind of a no man's land of fairly equal support of the Raiders, Rams, Chargers and Misc. I can see that morphing into a much higher majority of Charger fans though.

 

[Gr00vus]

Being in OC it prob is an easier drive to a Charger game than it ever was to see the Raiders or Rams.

Of course you mean apart from 1980-1994 when the Rams played in Anaheim.

 

[Chadstroma]

Being in OC it prob is an easier drive to a Charger game than it ever was to see the Raiders or Rams.

Of course you mean apart from 1980-1994 when the Rams played in Anaheim.

That was typing on auto-pilot while trying to work.

 

[bulger2holt]

Just went to a RamsFest in Chino Hills the other weekend

2,000 Ram fans at Prado Park

Support is here baby !!!!

Isn't that about what the attendances were before they moved to STL?

 

[cstu]

As much as local San Diegans hate to admit it, there are quite a few people in LA that root for the team and drive down for the games. I highly doubt that the NFL is going to want the Rams moving in alone to Inglewood and cannibalize these fans. So, assuming Kroenke moves with out approval, IMO it makes most sense to have Chargers/Rams and then have the Raiders move to St. Louis, or somewhere else.

I think I read somewhere that 25% of the Chargers season ticket holders come from the LA market.

Is OC considered LA market? I rarely came across a Charger fan growing up in the burbs of LA. Most of the non-SD Charger fans I knew were transplants from SD or lived/from OC.

Yeah, pretty sure that they lump in OC and also the Inland Empire when the talk about the "LA Market." Lots of Charger fans in the IE, especially Corona. All of the local youth leagues in Corona carry the Charger name. Its not that much more of a drive to go to SD than it would be to go to Inglewood.

The Inglewood location is within 30-35 miles of Irvine (OC), Pomona (IE), and Thousand Oaks (edge of Ventura County), all of the SFV.

Here are the demographics within a 10/20/30 mile radius of the Inglewood stadium:

Population: 3 million / 7 million / 10 million

Median Household Income: $45,000 / $51,000 / $55,000

30-35% of households makes over $75,000

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't believe they're seriously considering moving teams to Inglewood and Carson. Only reason I ever went to Inglewood was to watch games at the Forum. I don't think I've ever been to Carson - may have driven through once or twice. I've lived in L.A. county my whole life.

 

[Faust]

LOOK: Rams feature awkward moving company ad in Week 1 program

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25300474/look-rams-feature-awkward-moving-company-ad-in-week-1-program

 

[cstu]

I can't believe they're seriously considering moving teams to Inglewood and Carson. Only reason I ever went to Inglewood was to watch games at the Forum. I don't think I've ever been to Carson - may have driven through once or twice. I've lived in L.A. county my whole life.

And now the only reason you'll go there is to watch games at the Rams stadium.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Rams rise could be painful for St. Louis, fruitful for LA by Steve Wyche of NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000531222/article/rams-rise-could-be-painful-for-st-louis-fruitful-for-los-angeles

​

 

[TheFanatic]

You think Angelenos want the teams more than those fans in San Diego, St. Louis, Jax, and Oakland want to keep theirs? Really?

Yes to the bolded.

They why didn't they build a stadium before this? St. Louis built a stadium and less than 25 years later is on their way to a second one. What have the Angelenos done? Whine that they keep being used as bait for teams to get stadiums in their own cities. Want a team? Build a stadium. But you had to wait until Kroenke started the project on his own which then prompted the Chargers and Raiders to dip their toes in that water.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It was a catch 22.

Nobody was going to build a stadium without a team, and no way to attract a team without a stadium.

Kroenke was the game changer able to cut through that Gordian knot, with everything - team, money, land and desire/will to move.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Rams rise could be painful for St. Louis, fruitful for LA by Steve Wyche of NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000531222/article/rams-rise-could-be-painful-for-st-louis-fruitful-for-los-angeles

I read in a TSP thread the crowd was actually pretty small despite the announced number. People get bitter and stay away when they start feeling the owner has betrayed them or is about to. I'm still pulling for St. Louis, I hope they keep the team and it's bittersweet if they finally get good and rise to the top of the West only to move away, Possibly shades of 95 Browns if so.

The only owner of the three up for relocation who hasn't shown any interest in remaining in his existing location is Kroenke.

He hasn't shown any interest? I thought he at least was listening.

 

[TheFanatic]

It was a catch 22.

Nobody was going to build a stadium without a team, and no way to attract a team without a stadium.

Kroenke was the game changer able to cut through that Gordian knot, with everything - team, money, land and desire/will to move.

This. Not that difficult

False. St. Louis built a stadium without a team. Lost out on the expansion Panthers and the Jaguars and then landed the Rams. This in a podunk town that can't support a team, right? That's a town committed to football without near the population of LA, built a stadium and got a team.