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Goodbye Rams (1 Viewer)

The Kroenke deal is the most substantial thing I have seen in LA in 20 years. If feels a lot more real than anything yet. He has all the land he needs, a development plan, support of the city of Inglewood, partners and a team. That last thing is a huge key to the whole thing. Up to this point every stadium plan involved a group that didn't own a team and was usually dependent on the developer getting a part of a team in the deal. Supposedly the vote last night will allow them to start building this December. Now the only real obstacle is legal battles with the NFL, which could be a problem but it didn't stop Al Davis.

I think the Chargers / Raiders plan is them seeing the leverage of a vacant LA slipping away. For 20 years teams used that leverage to get a new stadium in their home market. Those 2 teams see something that is very real in the Kroenke deal and know they need to act fast to utilize that leverage.
They could leverage a recently vacant St. Louis, Oklahoma, or London as a potential landing space if their cities dont help cough up the money.

Personally I dont see how a team wouldnt move to LA if they were going to be the only show in town. The only way the Rams balk at this is if LA pulls in the Raiders or Chargers as well which makes the middle finger to the NFL and the $ sanctions then a non-starter. Otherwise if you give me revenue sharing vs single team LA I would take the single team LA.

 
So Kroenke buys some land in LA, not enough to build a stadium but most of the land, and St. Louis unveils a new stadium plan. The Chargers and the Raiders see this and announce they are going to share a stadium in LA. Seems like LA is being used as a pawn again as usual. The only difference is that Kroenke bought a ton of land. Him being a real estate developer means it won't be a problem to move the land if he keeps the Rams in St. Louis.
In addition to the property he bought adjacent to the old "Hollywood" Park track, he has partnered with the property development team that owns that much larger property. The City of Inglewood just unanimously approved the plan. Not sure if the obligatory environmental impact study obstacles have been cleared, but that should be a formality. I don't see land being an issue.As others have stated, after numerous false alarms, this time feels palpably different. The big difference is Kroenke, who has the wherewithal (and seemingly the will) to make it happen. It is unclear if he would allow the league to block such a move, but everything he has done so far seems to suggest he strongly intends to try, and Al Davis and the Raiders are a legal precedent for team moves not requiring league consent and sanction.

* Previously it was a catch 22. Without a viable stadium plan, it was virtually impossible to attract a team. And without a firm commitment from a team, it wasn't possible to marshal the political will to build a stadium. Kroenke is a game changer in this formerly bleak prospect landscape, as he can personally bypass those issues by building his own stadium (with the help of the real estate development partners).

 
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So Kroenke buys some land in LA, not enough to build a stadium but most of the land, and St. Louis unveils a new stadium plan. The Chargers and the Raiders see this and announce they are going to share a stadium in LA. Seems like LA is being used as a pawn again as usual. The only difference is that Kroenke bought a ton of land. Him being a real estate developer means it won't be a problem to move the land if he keeps the Rams in St. Louis.
In addition to the property he bought adjacent to the old "Hollywood" Park track, he has partnered with the property development team that owns that much larger property. The City of Inglewood just unanimously approved the plan. Not sure if the obligatory environmental impact study obstacles have been cleared, but that should be a formality. I don't see land being an issue.As others have stated, after numerous false alarms, this time feels palpably different. The big difference is Kroenke, who has the wherewithal (and seemingly the will) to make it happen. It is unclear if he would allow the league to block such a move, but everything he has done so far seems to suggest he strongly intends to try, and Al Davis and the Raiders are a legal precedent for team moves not requiring league consent and sanction.

* Previously it was a catch 22. Without a viable stadium plan, it was virtually impossible to attract a team. And without a firm commitment from a team, it wasn't possible to marshal the political will to build a stadium. Kroenke is a game changer in this formerly bleak prospect landscape, as he can personally bypass those issues by building his own stadium (with the help of the real estate development partners).
This is exciting. It would be great to have this team back home where it was born.

LOS ANGELES RAMS

??

 
Not a Californian, but the more I read about this insane drought, the more it boggles my mind that anyone would willingly move a multi-billion dollar business venture there. There seems to be a lack of foresight to this move. There is simply no long-term positive that can come of this.

 
ShamrockPride said:
Not a Californian, but the more I read about this insane drought, the more it boggles my mind that anyone would willingly move a multi-billion dollar business venture there. There seems to be a lack of foresight to this move. There is simply no long-term positive that can come of this.
:fishing:

 
Not a Californian, but the more I read about this insane drought, the more it boggles my mind that anyone would willingly move a multi-billion dollar business venture there. There seems to be a lack of foresight to this move. There is simply no long-term positive that can come of this.
Uhhhhhhhh. :lmao:

 
Josh Peter, USA TODAY Sports 10:10 a.m. EDT March 25, 2015

LOS ANGELES -- Tumbleweeds might as well have rolled down the 405 freeway that runs through this city as far as the NFL was concerned for the last two decades.

But suddenly the city that seemed an afterthought is being touted by the league as …

The gateway to Asia.

The hub of NFL West.

The home of two teams as early as 2016.

Previous rumblings of the NFL returning to Los Angeles ultimately went nowhere. But there has been a more specific message

this week at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix, where owners and league officials have discussed their hopes and dreams

for a return to the country's second-largest metropolitan area.

"The probability that we will get something done in Los Angeles has gone up," said Eric Grubman, executive vice president of NFL ventures/business operations.

"My estimation is there is a good possibility of 2016."


A consultant with the league — one who assisted the Raiders and Rams in their exodus from Southern California after the 1994 season —

sees another possibility for Los Angeles a year from now: Nothing. Again.

That's right, zero teams for Los Angeles.

St. Louis holds on to the Rams, Oakland keeps the Raiders and San Diego retains the Chargers after those cities deliver sweet deals by the fall —

now widely seen as the NFL's deadline — to help build stadiums for their respective teams.

"It is conceivable," Marc Ganis, president of consulting firm Sportscorp Ltd., told USA TODAY Sports.

"The likelihood that it happens isn't great because of the individual challenges each community has. But it is conceivable."

Therein lies the biggest remaining hurdle for Los Angeles: Its odds of getting a team depend on the actions of three other cities,

simply because the NFL has always placed great importance on keeping teams in their markets.

THREE OWNERS

The owners of the three teams viewed as contenders — the Rams' Stan Kroenke, the Raiders' Mark Davis and the Chargers' Dean Spanos —

have accelerated their lobbying efforts as they seek support for a possible move.

Davis said things could get awkward when he, Kroenke and Spanos participate in meetings on other league matters.

"It's an elephant in the room, and it shouldn't be," Davis said. "But that's how the process has played out. I don't understand it,

to be honest with you. To me, I think the three of us should be in the same room, talk it out. 'Who's going to do it?

Where are they going to do it? And let's take care of the third team.'"

The NFL has mastered the art of squeezing stadium deals out of cities over the last two decades,

and the goal is for the three teams to get new homes, whether it be in Los Angeles or their current cities.


In the Los Angeles area, the options are a proposed stadium on the former site of Hollywood Park in Inglewood,

with Kroenke owning 60 acres of a 298-acre development plan, and a proposed stadium in Carson where the Chargers and Raiders would play.

"There are three teams, and only two are going to go there," Davis said. "But I think all three teams are still working on their home markets, trying to get something done. ...

That's what I want to get done. Something in Oakland."

Ganis, who speaks regularly to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and is friendly with many owners, agrees that keeping teams in their current cities is the priority.

So Tuesday, when owners and league executives said one or two teams could relocate before the 2016 season, Ganis said it was not an idle threat.

"Putting communities on notice publicly and privately is spelled out in the (NFL) relocation rules and the right thing to do," Ganis said.

"This is offering a road map as to how to retain the teams on a long-term basis. Knowing that this is what they need to do,

generally by when they need to do it and that there are credible and viable options for the team if it doesn't happen

is the responsible way to inform and assist the existing home territories to retain their teams."

The memory of Al Davis defying the NFL in the early 1980s when he moved the Raiders to Los Angeles

from Oakland has stoked fears of Kroenke doing the same with the Rams.

After all, it's hard to believe Kroenke is planning a $2 billion stadium in Inglewood without an expectation that his Rams will play in it.


​But Ganis said if a proposed $985 million stadium in St. Louis secures funding, "It'd be very hard, if not impossible, following the league's relocation rules,

for that not to be approved by the NFL. And I have absolutely no doubt the NFL will enforce its rules regarding relocation."

Though a governor-appointed task force in Missouri presented a stadium project, the funding —

about $350 million to come from the extension of bonds that would need approval from the state legislature and/or voters —

remains uncertain. A spokesman for Gov. Jay Nixon said the task force was waiting on the NFL and Kroenke to make a financial commitment,

and the group's recommendation calls on the NFL and team to contribute $450 million.

"The governor has been clear that for any stadium proposal to move forward it must involve a significant financial commitment from the NFL and its local franchise,"

spokesman Channing Ansley said via e-mail. "Once this and other criteria are met, a determination about the financing mechanism can be made."

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said in an e-mail the league was working with the task force "to assemble a project that works for all sides, including a financing plan that will draw NFL support."

Rams spokesman Artis Twyman declined to comment Tuesday, and Kroenke has been noticeably silent and absent from that process. However, he recently revealed the proposed stadium in Inglewood would be able to accommodate two home teams.


IN SEARCH OF CERTAINTY

Funding is even more uncertain in Oakland and San Diego.

Davis has pledged $400 million toward a stadium, which has no price tag and has not been designed. Businessman Floyd Kephart, who is helping broker a deal, said there would be no public funds and money would be generated from a 200-acre parcel on which the stadium would be built and some land would be sold to private developers.

"I personally believe that if you do not have a definite plan approved for development and financing tied to it by the middle of September, then I think all of these teams that are involved in the various transactions will apply for a move under the NFL rules," Kephart said.


Davis denied using his interest in the Carson site as leverage against Oakland and maintained his preference was to stay there

if it found a way to generate money to help pay for the stadium. The Raiders share O.co Coliseum with baseball's Athletics.

"I've never used any other place as leverage," Davis said. "I've always said that Oakland is No.1, and I've always meant that.

I know that value wise, the Oakland market is not as valuable as far as revenue streams and all that stuff. We'll make do."

In San Diego, the mayor has set a May 20 deadline to get a stadium funding proposal from an advisory group.

The group has talked about using revenue that typically belongs to the team, said Jason Riggs, head of the San Diego Stadium Coalition,

which is consulting with the stakeholders.

But fancy stadium designs and creative financing proposals might not be enough as the game of stadium musical chairs enters a crucial period.

"Certainty is absolutely a requirement," Ganis said. "If San Diego comes up with a plan that they think in two years will work or has to go to a voter referendum,

but this is the only window for the Chargers to be able to get into Los Angeles, that's a bad solution. That is a solution that by its own terms won't go forward."

Jarrett Bell : Phoenix

March 25, 2014

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/03/24/los-angeles-st-louis-rams-san-diego-chargers-oakland-raiders-stan-kroenke/70404784/

 
But Ganis said if a proposed $985 million stadium in St. Louis secures funding, "It'd be very hard, if not impossible, following the league's relocation rules, for that not to be approved by the NFL.

And I have absolutely no doubt the NFL will enforce its rules regarding relocation." Though a governor-appointed task force in Missouri presented a stadium project, the funding — about $350 million to come from the extension of bonds that would need approval from the state legislature and/or voters — remains uncertain. A spokesman for Gov. Jay Nixon said the task force was waiting on the NFL and Kroenke to make a financial commitment,and the group's recommendation calls on the NFL and team to contribute $450 million.

"The governor has been clear that for any stadium proposal to move forward it must involve a significant financial commitment from the NFL and its local franchise,"

spokesman Channing Ansley said via e-mail. "Once this and other criteria are met, a determination about the financing mechanism can be made."

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said in an e-mail the league was working with the task force "to assemble a project that works for all sides, including a financing plan that will draw NFL support."
I understand if St. Louis and the NFL agree to fully fund a stadium for the Rams, but can the league hold up the Rams' move by forcing Kroenke to pay for part of the stadium in St. Louis if he doesn't want to?

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/patriots-owner-nfl-has-obligation-to-stay-in-st-louis/article_b71863ad-59ba-56d3-a9e3-5ced69af0eb8.html

“In my opinion, I think there’ll be a team and possibly two playing in LA somewhere in 2016,” New York Giants president and CEO John Mara said. “But that remains subject to the league approval and that’ll happen at some point in the future.”

Kraft went even further, saying it’s more likely the NFL will have two teams in Los Angeles in 2016 than just one.

“Twenty-one years ago when I moved into the league, we had two teams move out of the LA market,” Kraft said. “It was just very unfortunate. And I don’t think it’s good that we’ve let a generation of fans, young kids, grow up (without the NFL in LA).

“It’s not good for the NFL, and I really believe within the next year we’ll have two teams in that market. I don’t know who they’ll be. ... We have some real good options. We’ll see what happens in the end game.”
 
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So if the Kroenke plan is successful, you could see the Rams and Chargers there in 2016, which could put the Raiders in play for St. Louis if the Peacock and Blitz plan becomes a reality in terms of land acquisition and financing.
 
i heard its the eagles that are moving because the philly winter doesnt fit chip kellys offensive scheme.

 
The Carson (CA) City Council unanimously approved the $1.7 billion privately-financed Chargers-Raiders stadium project on Tuesday evening.

"There are two things we need in California: rain and football," said Carson Mayor Albert Robles. "And football is coming to Carson."

The unanimous vote allows the project to skip the environmental review process just as Stan Kroenke's Inglewood project was able to do earlier this spring.

It appears the Rams and Chargers-Raiders are in a race to see who can get their stadium built first.

Source: Kevin Acee on Twitter

Apr 22 - 8:38 AM
 
Looking around the corner, or thinking a few moves ahead on the chess board, merchandisers will soon be wanting to clear their ST. LOUIS-related Rams inventory.

 
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Thoughts and condolences to the older generation of St Louis fans who have endured losing the Cardinals and now the Rams.

What a kick in the groin.

 
Did you read all the way down? There's a page for the Phoenix Cardinals and Boston Patriots and Houston Oilers that link to the current teams.
Now why on earth would I do that?
Oh, I don't know. To have all the info?

@NFLosophy They have them for a bunch of old teams. It also works for Houston Oilers, LA Raiders, and Boston Patriots.
 
The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.

 
The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.
Kroenke has the money, the land, and the mindset to move the Rams to Los Angeles. There's nothing the NFL can do to stop him.

My advice to St. Louis - let the Rams go and entice another team to St. Louis with a new stadium.

Also, the latest I read has St. Louis putting up only $400M ($250M in bonds, $150M in tax credits) for a new stadium:

St. Louis Stadium Task Force Co-Chair Dave Peacock was at a breakfast event in St. Louis yesterday where he clarified one of the new details about the financing plan, per a report from Brian Feldt in the St. Louis Business Journal. The bonds to be raised from the city and state would bring in $250m as opposed to the $350 originally suggested. The plan has been adjusted to this by adding an increase in tax credits to the Brownfield and Missouri Development Finance Board.
 
The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.
Kroenke will own his own stadium, as a magnet to a co-owned mixed commercial/residence development on the old Hollywood Park race track location, and in the process go from the #32 most valuable team in the NFL to #1 in one stroke.

LA absolutely makes complete sense. Condolences to St. Louis fans (I know the feeling, residing in LA), but at this point the momentum is inexorable and a '16 move seems destined.

 
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The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.
Kroenke has the money, the land, and the mindset to move the Rams to Los Angeles. There's nothing the NFL can do to stop him.

My advice to St. Louis - let the Rams go and entice another team to St. Louis with a new stadium.

Also, the latest I read has St. Louis putting up only $400M ($250M in bonds, $150M in tax credits) for a new stadium:

St. Louis Stadium Task Force Co-Chair Dave Peacock was at a breakfast event in St. Louis yesterday where he clarified one of the new details about the financing plan, per a report from Brian Feldt in the St. Louis Business Journal. The bonds to be raised from the city and state would bring in $250m as opposed to the $350 originally suggested. The plan has been adjusted to this by adding an increase in tax credits to the Brownfield and Missouri Development Finance Board.
STL will also have PSL's and naming rights for the stadium. Lot's of public money going into it.

 
bulger2holt said:
The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.
Kroenke has the money, the land, and the mindset to move the Rams to Los Angeles. There's nothing the NFL can do to stop him.

My advice to St. Louis - let the Rams go and entice another team to St. Louis with a new stadium.

Also, the latest I read has St. Louis putting up only $400M ($250M in bonds, $150M in tax credits) for a new stadium:

St. Louis Stadium Task Force Co-Chair Dave Peacock was at a breakfast event in St. Louis yesterday where he clarified one of the new details about the financing plan, per a report from Brian Feldt in the St. Louis Business Journal. The bonds to be raised from the city and state would bring in $250m as opposed to the $350 originally suggested. The plan has been adjusted to this by adding an increase in tax credits to the Brownfield and Missouri Development Finance Board.
STL will also have PSL's and naming rights for the stadium. Lot's of public money going into it.
And the Rams in LA doesn't prohibit the Chargers or Raiders from also moving. In fact the NFL envisions 2 teams in 1 stadium in LA. Kronke's stadium is designed to be home team for 2 teams. Having the stadium under construction makes it that much easier for one of those teams to move.

 
bulger2holt said:
The Chargers and Raiders can't get new stadium deals done in their cities. Rams to LA will hurt both of those teams' chances for leverage in their cities and will also block them to Carson. Will the NFL say FU to them and to St.Louis who is putting in 500 million of public money for a new stadium?

Just doesn't make any sense for the Rams to LA.
Kroenke has the money, the land, and the mindset to move the Rams to Los Angeles. There's nothing the NFL can do to stop him.

My advice to St. Louis - let the Rams go and entice another team to St. Louis with a new stadium.

Also, the latest I read has St. Louis putting up only $400M ($250M in bonds, $150M in tax credits) for a new stadium:

St. Louis Stadium Task Force Co-Chair Dave Peacock was at a breakfast event in St. Louis yesterday where he clarified one of the new details about the financing plan, per a report from Brian Feldt in the St. Louis Business Journal. The bonds to be raised from the city and state would bring in $250m as opposed to the $350 originally suggested. The plan has been adjusted to this by adding an increase in tax credits to the Brownfield and Missouri Development Finance Board.
STL will also have PSL's and naming rights for the stadium. Lot's of public money going into it.
And the Rams in LA doesn't prohibit the Chargers or Raiders from also moving. In fact the NFL envisions 2 teams in 1 stadium in LA. Kronke's stadium is designed to be home team for 2 teams. Having the stadium under construction makes it that much easier for one of those teams to move.
Neither want to be a tennant in Stan's place. In Carson, the Chargers and Raiders will be co-equal owners

 
Don't discount Stan selling the Rams to a STL group, the building in Inglewood and leasing to the Chargers and Raiders and developing the entire area. There are rumors that's a real possibility. Heard he can then buy the Broncos eventually. That would also solve his cross ownership problem too. He would make out like a bandit it this scenario

 
Chargers and Raiders close on Carson land purchase.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stadium-662313-land-carson.html

May 19, 2015

SAN FRANCISCO - The Chargers, Raiders and Carson city officials completed a land deal Tuesday morning that will enable a $1.65-billion stadium

to be built next to the 405 Freeway that eliminates another hurdle for the NFL's return to the Los Angeles-Orange County market.

The deed for 157 acres was transferred to the Carson Reclamation Joint Powers Authority Tuesday. Following a model used to develop and finance

Levi's Stadium, the 49ers' new home in Santa Clara, the CRJPA will lease the land to a stadium authority, likely made up of Carson City Council members

who in turn will rent the facility to the NFL teams.

The State Department of Toxic Substances has consented to the land transfer.

The transfer comes just hours before the NFL meetings at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in which the Los Angeles situation will be a primary topic.

NFL senior Vice President Eric Grubman will brief the league and its owners ON both developments in Carson and Rams owner

Stan Kroenke's plans to build a $1.86-million stadium at Hollywood Park as well as new stadium efforts in St. Louis, San Diego and Oakland.

These are the first NFL meetings since the Chargers and Raiders hired former 49ers executive Carmen Policy to direct their Los Angeles efforts.

Tuesday's land transfer now enables the city to turn over the development and eventual operation of the Carson stadium to a stadium authority.

Carson officials earlier this month secured $1.7-billion in financing from Goldman Sachs, which also financed Levi's Stadium.

The NFL would provide $400 million from a special new stadium fund.

“The Santa Clara model is a proven financing structure that the team and the city can use to make this project a reality,” said Christopher Higgins of Goldman Sachs.

The stadium authority would pay off the loans primarily through naming rights and selling personal seat licenses.

The Raiders and Chargers, however, would guarantee the stadium loans. The Santa Clara stadium authority signed a $220 million,

20-year naming rights deal with Levi Strauss. MetLife Insurance is paying $400 million over 25 years for the naming rights to Giants’ and Jets’ New Jersey stadium.

Regular ticket sales and revenue from luxury suites would be split by the Chargers and Raiders. The Raiders and Chargers would pay $1.2 million each in annual rent.

A financial analysis by AECOM Technical Services Inc. projects rent and taxes for the stadium with one occupant would generate $168 million over 40 years.

With two occupants the city would receive $223 million over 40 years. After 30 years the city would also receive 50 percent of all non-NFL revenue from the stadium,

according to David Stone of AECOM, a financial consulting firm hired by the city.

.

 
The NFL is having a hard time lining up more than one temporary site in case two teams were to relocate to Los Angeles. The Coliseum is the only venue willing to house a team while a stadium was being built and has made it clear it wants one pro team.

While this is a headache for the league, it's not a game changer. Some might surmise that, because there's only one such vacancy, it has to mean the St. Louis Rams are the franchise that will be given the green light to move.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-la-nfl-coliseum-20150805-story.html

 
St. Louis is the only one of the three cities with a viable stadium plan. They just got a court decision that allows them to build and getting tax dollars without having to go to a vote in the city.

At this point, which is very possible, Kronke would probably have to go rogue and just move the team. He obviously has the money to do it. Oakland and San Diego has no plans and are just spinning their wheels.

This would be a non factor if St. Louis got the expansion team that went to Jacksonville like they should have. I am still confused how Jacksonville got a team. Florida is a tough sell for pro sports. Too many people from too many different placed moved down there. Baseball is worse, but Jacksonville was fighting an uphill battle for fans long term.

 

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