Gore to unseat Barlow at RB/Dorsey to start? (1 Viewer)

[jurb26]

When it comes down to it though, the Niners staff felt like Gore was worth the first pick in the 3rd round(ahead of guys like Barber, Morency, Moats etc.) for a reason, and who am i or anyone else on this board to argue?

Exactly. Neither you, I, the other posters, or even the esteemed staff of this publication have a personal stake in how well Gore ultimately performs. The Niners coaching staff/scouting dept. are literally staking their jobs/careers on the draft picks they have made. Doesn't mean they always know what they are doing (see Ditka and Ricky Williams) but I do give more credibility to people who do this for a living than a bunch of amateurs who think they know better.

I agree and the same can be said for the staff at UM.... even though many choose to ignore that.

 

[msommer]

The team made a financial commitment to bring Barlow back for another shot at starting in 2005

Actually the bonus was guaranteed - so they could pay him and cut him or pay him and not cut him - which makes more sense

 

[DaVinci]

Dorsey starting would mean disaster in San Francisco. He stinks.

I used to think so too...until I had to suffer through 2 years of Brock Berlin.

 

[Burning Sensation]

The team made a financial commitment to bring Barlow back for another shot at starting in 2005

Actually the bonus was guaranteed - so they could pay him and cut him or pay him and not cut him - which makes more sense

That was my understanding, i believe if the Niners could have a "do over" they would use it on that Barlow contract.

 

[cstu]

When it comes down to it though, the Niners staff felt like Gore was worth the first pick in the 3rd round(ahead of guys like Barber, Morency, Moats etc.) for a reason, and who am i or anyone else on this board to argue?

Exactly. Neither you, I, the other posters, or even the esteemed staff of this publication have a personal stake in how well Gore ultimately performs. The Niners coaching staff/scouting dept. are literally staking their jobs/careers on the draft picks they have made. Doesn't mean they always know what they are doing (see Ditka and Ricky Williams) but I do give more credibility to people who do this for a living than a bunch of amateurs who think they know better.

Nobody stakes their jobs on a 3rd round pick. The #1 overall pick on the other hand...

 

[Bloom]

The team made a financial commitment to bring Barlow back for another shot at starting in 2005

Actually the bonus was guaranteed - so they could pay him and cut him or pay him and not cut him - which makes more sense

again, if they didnt pay him the bonus, 14 mil of guaranteed money kicked in - paying the bonus was NOT a sign of any kind of long term commitment to barlow...

 

[nightshift]

Both sides of this argument are being very shortsighted and not recognizing some very simple truths.

Those pointing to his senior stats and saying they weren't impressive seem to have no idea what they are looking at. He was 1 year removed from ACL surgery and nobody plays all world one year after ACL surgery.

While it is an extremely safe bet that he would have played better at Miami two years after his surgery, his ceiling was not able to be seen and could have been slightly higher or it could have been tremendously higher.
While Barlow has the size and talent and the big contract, the fact is that no matter how much you can blame of last year's performance on the supporting cast, he was outplayed for the majority of the year by an undrafted free agent in Maurice Hicks. While the starting job should be his to lose, he has certainly shown the capability of losing it so seeing him lose his job to a 3rd round pick isn't exactly that crazy of a prediction.
He undoubtedly was seen as having top notch talent and was ahead of McGahee and Portis on the depth chart his Sophomore year. You can point to the fact that he was a "high school" talent that was only at the top of the depth chart on paper and for the time being but keep in mind that all three guys had been on the team and seen playing time and practice time the previous season and the coaches had been able to take the time to evaluate them before placing him at the top of the depth chart. It wasn't like he was a hot freshman recruit that was slated to start. He'd been in the system a year and so had the other two.You can take a look at these things and you can declare him the next McGahee or you can declare him the next bust, but the fact remains that neither side has enough evidence to declare themselves to be the victor in this debate. ALL RB's IN THIS DRAFT CARRY RISK. Gore carries more risk than a lot of people feel comfortable with for an early rookie draft pick but to say he has no talent or to declare him to be a no brainer are both so obviously moronic it hurts to read it. People need to see this for what it is, a risk/reward type pick that could come back to burn you or it could work out phenomenally for you.

You obviously do not understand this forum. You HAVE to pick a side, and once you do, slam the other side for how stupid they are. Do not waiver, do not be flexible, do not have an open mind. This can only be seen as weakness.

LOL...while that might seem the case sometimes, it's really not.While I personally think it's downright illogical to suggest that Gore is anything more than a 50/50 shot at being a successful NFL RB (and don't think he graded out as a 1st day pick), it's entirely possible that he could buck his injury history and ultimately beat out Kevan Barlow for the job.

Here's what we know so far:

Barlow has been a disappointment
The team made a financial commitment to bring Barlow back for another shot at starting in 2005
Barlow, when focused, can be effective
Gore, before his injuries, was considered an elite tailback prospect
His injuries robbed him of the chance to prove (or disprove) that reputation on the field
The 49ers coaches saw enough of him, on film and in person, to think his injury history is something worth betting is surmountable
The 49ers won't hesitate to play whichever back is the more deserving
Next year, neither of these backs could be the 49ers starter...or one could be on their way to a 2nd consecutive 1,000 yard seasonI said after the draft that Barlow got about as lucky as he could've with the 49ers choice of Gore. Because of Gore's injury history and his lack of on-field production; it's IMHO a much easier leap of faith to think Barlow can outperform him and retain his job. It's by no means a foregone conclusion, far from it, but had any number of other collegiate backs been the 49ers choice, I would be far less sanguine about the situation. Had the Niners drafted: Benson, Brown, Williams, Arrington, Moats, Barber instead; I would already be penciling in the rookie ahead of Barlow on the depth chart.

My $0.02

Woodrow,50/50? Those are nice odds for a rookie in the NFL. At any position. Thanks for the endorsement!

 

[Burning Sensation]

When it comes down to it though, the Niners staff felt like Gore was worth the first pick in the 3rd round(ahead of guys like Barber, Morency, Moats etc.) for a reason, and who am i or anyone else on this board to argue?

Exactly. Neither you, I, the other posters, or even the esteemed staff of this publication have a personal stake in how well Gore ultimately performs. The Niners coaching staff/scouting dept. are literally staking their jobs/careers on the draft picks they have made. Doesn't mean they always know what they are doing (see Ditka and Ricky Williams) but I do give more credibility to people who do this for a living than a bunch of amateurs who think they know better.

Nobody stakes their jobs on a 3rd round pick. The #1 overall pick on the other hand...

Yeah, you are probably right, those 3.1 picks are pretty useless.

 

[TheFanatic]

The team made a financial commitment to bring Barlow back for another shot at starting in 2005

Actually the bonus was guaranteed - so they could pay him and cut him or pay him and not cut him - which makes more sense

Actually the bonus they gave him was a roster bonus, but it wasn't your typical roster bonus. If they didn't pay it then they guaranteed him $14 million over the next 3 years. More money now with the option of paying him less later. He can now be moved or cut after the season so it seems to me that Barlow is now in a contract year. Motivation? I think so....

 

[Duke1948]

Gore might be an interesting prospect, but all this hype, it reminds me of.....Ron Dayne last year. How did that turn out? Some fool in my dynasty league drafted him late in the first round, and Lee Evans fell in my lap. THANK YOU.

just interested, how did ron dayne and lee evans end up being draft in the same draft?

 

[squistion]

When it comes down to it though, the Niners staff felt like Gore was worth the first pick in the 3rd round(ahead of guys like Barber, Morency, Moats etc.) for a reason, and who am i or anyone else on this board to argue?

Exactly. Neither you, I, the other posters, or even the esteemed staff of this publication have a personal stake in how well Gore ultimately performs. The Niners coaching staff/scouting dept. are literally staking their jobs/careers on the draft picks they have made. Doesn't mean they always know what they are doing (see Ditka and Ricky Williams) but I do give more credibility to people who do this for a living than a bunch of amateurs who think they know better.

Nobody stakes their jobs on a 3rd round pick. The #1 overall pick on the other hand...

If you read what I actually said my exact words were draft picks - I did not state nor imply they were staking their jobs on the Frank Gore selection alone. However, whether they retain their jobs or not in the long run may ultimately turn on the draft picks (that plural) they make, with them having more to answer for (or take credit) the higher the selection.

 

[Duke1948]

Both sides of this argument are being very shortsighted and not recognizing some very simple truths.

Those pointing to his senior stats and saying they weren't impressive seem to have no idea what they are looking at.  He was 1 year removed from ACL surgery and nobody plays all world one year after ACL surgery.

While it is an extremely safe bet that he would have played better at Miami two years after his surgery, his ceiling was not able to be seen and could have been slightly higher or it could have been tremendously higher.
While Barlow has the size and talent and the big contract, the fact is that no matter how much you can blame of last year's performance on the supporting cast, he was outplayed for the majority of the year by an undrafted free agent in Maurice Hicks.  While the starting job should be his to lose, he has certainly shown the capability of losing it so seeing him lose his job to a 3rd round pick isn't exactly that crazy of a prediction.
He undoubtedly was seen as having top notch talent and was ahead of McGahee and Portis on the depth chart his Sophomore year.  You can point to the fact that he was a "high school" talent that was only at the top of the depth chart on paper and for the time being but keep in mind that all three guys had been on the team and seen playing time and practice time the previous season and the coaches had been able to take the time to evaluate them before placing him at the top of the depth chart.  It wasn't like he was a hot freshman recruit that was slated to start.  He'd been in the system a year and so had the other two.You can take a look at these things and you can declare him the next McGahee or you can declare him the next bust, but the fact remains that neither side has enough evidence to declare themselves to be the victor in this debate.  ALL RB's IN THIS DRAFT CARRY RISK.  Gore carries more risk than a lot of people feel comfortable with for an early rookie draft pick but to say he has no talent or to declare him to be a no brainer are both so obviously moronic it hurts to read it.  People need to see this for what it is, a risk/reward type pick that could come back to burn you or it could work out phenomenally for you.

You obviously do not understand this forum. You HAVE to pick a side, and once you do, slam the other side for how stupid they are. Do not waiver, do not be flexible, do not have an open mind. This can only be seen as weakness.

no truer statement has ever graced these pages.

 

[redman]

The bottom line here for me is that Gore is even money to displace Barlow as the starter this year and/or become half of a RBBC. Gore was drafted as a wild card for the team to see if he could beat out a guy who's career is starting to look like a slightly shinier version of Troy Hambrick's. Both Gore and Barlow are probably more likely to fail than to succeed as NFL starters, but if anyone tells you that they know how this will end they're lying. As for Dorsey, he will be lucky to be the QB3 by the end of the year. Rattay at least has a fair-to-middlin' NFL arm. Dorsey can't even claim that. And we all know that Smith's season will likely resemble Eli Manning's last year (sitting before starting late). Personally, I'm cutting Dorsey from my dynasty roster before I'm cutting other backups like Kitna and Holcomb.

 

[azcards33]

From the 49ers website:

Dorsey Not Wasting Opportunity

Wednesday, May 11, 2005

Ken Dorsey.

In theory, Alex Smith will step right in and be the 49ers starting quarterback when the team takes the field September 11 against the St. Louis Rams. After all, he was selected first overall by the club and it would not make sense to sit your number one pick.

In theory, Ken Dorsey, Cody Pickett and Tim Rattay are all competing to be the #2 quarterback, jockeying for position behind the apparent frontrunner.

In theory, all of the above could happen. However, theory does not always translate in the real world. And although the reality is that the 49ers will be investing a large sum of money in Smith, that does not guarantee him as the automatic starter. The job, according to Mike Nolan, is open to the person willing to step up and take it, “They better think so, or they won’t be here.”

Enter Dorsey who continues to push himself for the starting role.

“My mentality is that I’m always competing for something. It’s just the way I am; I want to be on the field, I want to be playing,” Dorsey said. “I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t want to. No matter what happens, my mindset is that I want to be a player in this league. I feel like I’m capable of that and if I keep improving, I feel like that is going to happen. So no matter what, I’m going to work hard.”

The reality of that situation is that Dorsey has been working as hard, arguably harder than, as anyone else since the 2004 season ended on a cold wintry day in New England. A regular in the offseason program, he has made it a point to make every workout.

“This means too much to me to just let it waste away. I have everything I want right here,” Dorsey said. “My family, my future family, my friends and my dream is here, being a 49er. It’s such a short window in this league, that I don’t want to waste it away.”

Ken Dorsey.

Dorsey has eagerly approached the 49ers offseason changes, from a new coaching staff which gives him a “chance to start from scratch,” to the installation of Mike McCarthy’s version of the West Coast Offense (WCO).

“I feel like it fits my strengths extremely well. I don’t mind getting outside of the pocket, but my job is to get the ball to the wide receivers and the guys who make big plays for us. I’m going to give them every opportunity to do what they do best,” he said. “The offense doesn’t have to work with a guy who runs a 4.4; it’s at its best when you have a guy who makes quick decisions, smart decisions and delivers the ball accurately.”

Being able to deliver the ball, in theory, is paramount to any offensive success. The reality for the 49ers last season was that there was frequently little time to deliver the ball to the right people. Dorsey and Rattay were dropped 52 times last year behind an offensive line that was depleted by injuries and victimized by a shaky offensive system.

In his rebuilding process, Nolan has paid particular attention to the offensive line that began with the signing of tackle Jonas Jennings and the move of Kwame Harris to right tackle. The restructure continued with the addition of two rookies on the draft’s first day.

“Bringing in Jonas was big and with a healthy Kwame and Jeremy, it’s going to be a big advantage for us. We’re going to have a big group up there,” Dorsey said. “And the scheme is going to help us out a lot too. With Coach McCarthy, the premium is on protection; it’s protection first and that will be a huge advantage. Anytime a QB in this league can set his feet and throw the football, he is going to have success.”

Such is Dorsey’s theory and hopefully, his reality.

 

[Slash]

Dorsey Stop it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Are they trying to pump up this guys value for a trade or something?

 

[Kit Fisto]

can't believe this thread still has life.... You guys go ahead, draft guys like Gore and Dorsey. I'll be busy cashing my winner's check.

 

[Riffraff]

This is reaching Onterrio Smith proportions.

 

[TheFanatic]

I'm sold. I have the 1.1 and the 1.3 picks this year in the Rookie/FA draft. I'm going Gore with 1.1 and hoping to God that Dorsey falls to me at 1.3....

 

[cstu]

I'm sold. I have the 1.1 and the 1.3 picks this year in the Rookie/FA draft. I'm going Gore with 1.1 and hoping to God that Dorsey falls to me at 1.3....

 

[5Rings]

I'm sold. I have the 1.1 and the 1.3 picks this year in the Rookie/FA draft. I'm going Gore with 1.1 and hoping to God that Dorsey falls to me at 1.3....

Dorsey will be lucky to have a roster spot in 6 months......

 

[joker]

No opinion either way, but FWIW I watched Gore outclass both Portis and McGahee in person at UM until he got hurt. They weren't horrible, he was just...that...good. 'Course, he looks completely different now then he did then due to the surgeries (bigger and slower), so who knows? What I can tell you for sure is that this cat had major talent before he got injured. Whether or not that will translate into success at the NFL level, I don't know, but don't lose sight of his talent. If he fails to succeed it won't be because he was "pedestrian" in talent, as someone else put it on this board - it will be because he couldn't come back from the injuries.

 

[CaptainHucklebuck]

I'm sold. I have the 1.1 and the 1.3 picks this year in the Rookie/FA draft. I'm going Gore with 1.1 and hoping to God that Dorsey falls to me at 1.3....

Yeah, I mean come on. That would've been like taking Julius Jones and Ben Roethlisberger or Drew Brees in the rookie/FA last year. How stupid would that have been, eh?

 

[Marc Levin]

can't believe this thread still has life....

You guys go ahead, draft guys like Gore and Dorsey. I'll be busy cashing my winner's check.

as long as you don't draft Barlow as a starting RB, you'll be fine.

 

[nightshift]

can't believe this thread still has life....

You guys go ahead, draft guys like Gore and Dorsey. I'll be busy cashing my winner's check.

Congrats on winning Publisher's Clearinghouse. This must be the winner's check you are referring to; we all know it couldn't be from playin' FF!

 

[azcards33]

Latest news:• Nolan described the quarterback competition as ``wide open'' heading into training camp. Tim Rattay, No. 1 pick Alex Smith and Ken Dorsey are in the mix for the starting job, with second-year player Cody Pickett showing promise.``I like all four guys,'' Nolan said. ``There's not one of them that shouldn't be in the league. Hopefully, it's here.''

 

[cracKer]

It's setting up so that Tim Rattay = Drew Brees. Rattay's injuries may let Smith on the field at some point this year, but he'll play well enough to make the rookie a sideline student his first year.

 

[Big Score]

Gore was never a college star, despite the fact that he was the unquestioned starter in his final year at RB in college. Yet many here are suggesting that he will be at least a quality NFL starting RB. I'm just looking for examples of players who accomplished that same progression in the past.

I think Terrell Davis is a good comparison, given the criteria you've set forth.

 

[ravnzfan]

please don't compare Barlow with Jamal Lewis beause that is just as comical.

thanx, Cowboy---I spit on the screen when I read that!

 

[Footballhead]

Quit bumping this thread...and that include myself too.

 

[Hullabaloogapalooza]

Quit bumping this thread...and that include myself too.

Ok.

 

[doomsdaydoc]

This thread is comical at best.  Gore is not the RB to "pound the ball" with.  Barlow has the size and speed to be Jamal Lewis-West.  The Gore love on this board is becoming sickening.

You might be right about Gore, but I'll have to butt in and say please, please don't compare Barlow with Jamal Lewis beause that is just as comical.

You're right, let's compare a 5'9" 208 lb. peg-legged RB named Gore to him instead. You'll see soon enough that Gore is James Jackson II on the NFL level.

I haven't said anything about comparing Gore to anyone, I really don't know much about him. You guys seem to be the experts on him, I appreciate you guys calling out this fraud if he indeed is a fraud. I do however, know a lot about Jamal Lewis and Kevan Barlow and I know that comparing Kevan Barlow to Lewis is :X

I'll 2nd that. Barlow owners were the victim of the 2004 hype machine. Also, Barlow has BELOW average speed for a tailback inthe NFL.

Barlow's value last season was not really so much from hype as it was as a result of his performance down the stretch of the 2003 season when Hearst was injured. He looked great for those few weeks and as a result, was considered a solid back going into last season. Clearly he did not live up to that billing for whatever reason.

 

[jurb26]

Bump to the real 1st Gore thread. Nice job Az.

 

[switz]

Bump to the real 1st Gore thread. Nice job Az.

Exactly...

 

[reg]

ll I know is with all these Gore threads, there are going to be alot of bumps throughout the season, probably from both sides.

 

[jurb26]

Gore might be an interesting prospect, but all this hype, it reminds me of.....Ron Dayne last year. How did that turn out? Some fool in my dynasty league drafted him late in the first round, and Lee Evans fell in my lap. THANK YOU.

No it reminds me of McGahee.... how did that one turn out?

Hummm, Henry traded.... Barlow traded. Up next, Foster.

 

[cormanman]

I still say that there is ZERO chance of Gore unseating Barlow for the starting job.

Take that to the bank.