Got a promotion and making less money! (1 Viewer)

[GroveDiesel]

I would be shocked if current Big Boss gives you the official promotion. If he wanted to it would already be done. Or at the least he would have insured that your rating last year made up the difference instead of going the other direction.

What are the odds that new Big Boss comes in and doesn’t just punt on it too since he can use the same excuse of moving into a new position and not having enough information. Keeping things status quo rather than promoting people and paying them more money is almost always the move. 

Unfortunately, the lesson here is to NEVER take a promotion in responsibilities if a promotion in compensation doesn’t accompany it. Once you’re in the new position, there is very little motivation for them to give you the extra compensation.

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Big boss knew exactly what he was doing, saving money. Knowing that by giving him that rating = no raise allows him to not pay what shady's worth and not promote him.

Yeah he's not incompetent he's just an ahole

 

[xulf]

It DOES hurt him.  He's getting a 20% lower bonus than the previous year.

I get that his bonus is less, but he is still getting a bonus.  From the perspective of the big boss, who likely doesn't want to do the review and should not be doing the review, this is the status quo --- a positive review where the employee still earns a bonus.  It is the easiest route for the big boss to take.  I very much doubt that the big boss is actually trying to pay shady less. He is trying to just deal with all these new things he now has to do, as quickly and painlessly as possible, since shady's original boss left.  The impact on shady, I am almost certain, is an unintended consequence of that.  

 

[gianmarco]

Im not willing to leave yet. I'd like to give them an opportunity to make things right. And will have further discussions down the road to do so.

We've had these discussions. I am not being fully detailed in my posts though as I don't want to make it too wordy.

I think it's completely reasonable to see if they make things right.  I also think you should start looking elsewhere for employment at the same time so that, in the event another 1-2 months pass and they don't make it right, you have something in line for you to change to. 

 

[gianmarco]

I get that his bonus is less, but he is still getting a bonus.  From the perspective of the big boss, who likely doesn't want to do the review and should not be doing the review, this is the status quo --- a positive review where the employee still earns a bonus.  It is the easiest route for the big boss to take.  I very much doubt that the big boss is actually trying to pay shady less. He is trying to just deal with all these new things he now has to do, as quickly and painlessly as possible, since shady's original boss left.  The impact on shady, I am almost certain, is an unintended consequence of that.  

I really don't understand this.  That bonus is part of what he expects to take home based on his performance.  And the reason for the decrease is the review that can/should be adjusted (without even having to touch his salary).

Just applying numbers here, if his salary is $100,000 and his bonus is $20,000.

2019 -- Taking home $120,000 (salary + bonus)

2020 -- Taking home $115,000 (salary + bonus) WITH extra work with current review

2020 -- Taking home $120,00 (salary + bonus) WITH extra work and adjusted review

Absolutely unacceptable and should be fixed.  If not, and not done soon, it's time to move on, IMO.  What's to say his bonus doesn't disappear the next year?

 

[Ned]

Uh, yes he did.  20% lower bonus based on lower job rating.

His take home check this year is lower than last year.   Where's the confusion here?

The confusion was he didn't say the bolded until later on.

 

[xulf]

I really don't understand this.  That bonus is part of what he expects to take home based on his performance.  And the reason for the decrease is the review that can/should be adjusted (without even having to touch his salary).

Just applying numbers here, if his salary is $100,000 and his bonus is $20,000.

2019 -- Taking home $120,000 (salary + bonus)

2020 -- Taking home $115,000 (salary + bonus) WITH extra work with current review

2020 -- Taking home $120,00 (salary + bonus) WITH extra work and adjusted review

Absolutely unacceptable and should be fixed.  If not, and not done soon, it's time to move on, IMO.  What's to say his bonus doesn't disappear the next year?

For your first part, I would argue that a bonus should never be considered part of take home pay.  There is a reason it is a bonus and not part of your base salary.  The company could crush it one year from a large windfall and give out bonuses that are 50% more than the year before.  Should you now always expect that?  If you make less than that the next year, are you now feeling slighted?  I am not sure how big shady's company is, but the dollar amount allocated to bonuses in small and medium size companies vary greatly from one year to the next.  The more profitable the company, the higher the bonus.  The better an individual performs, the higher percent of that total pool they are likely to receive.

All of the above is a bit moot, but there seems to be some disconnect from what I am saying to how it is being interpreted.  For the bolded, I 100% agree. I said that shady needs to get this handled before the big boss leaves in one month.  He is for sure getting the short end of the stick and it  needs to be rectified.  I am just providing my interpretation of why that actually happened.  So many people jump the rails and immediately say to leave the job, that they are screwing you over.  I really don't think that is the intention of the players involved here.  People generally are so self-centered and self-absorbed that they don't see how their actions are have unintended consequences.  The big boss is taking the easy way out (as most would do), and it hurt shady.  Shady needs to fix that --- that is all I am getting at.  But, he doesn't need to go in ready to start WWIII, he just needs to be proactive and get things taken care of, and let them know that he is materially impacted by these decisions.  

 

[shadyridr]

For your first part, I would argue that a bonus should never be considered part of take home pay.  There is a reason it is a bonus and not part of your base salary.  The company could crush it one year from a large windfall and give out bonuses that are 50% more than the year before.  Should you now always expect that?  If you make less than that the next year, are you now feeling slighted?  I am not sure how big shady's company is, but the dollar amount allocated to bonuses in small and medium size companies vary greatly from one year to the next.  The more profitable the company, the higher the bonus.  The better an individual performs, the higher percent of that total pool they are likely to receive.

All of the above is a bit moot, but there seems to be some disconnect from what I am saying to how it is being interpreted.  For the bolded, I 100% agree. I said that shady needs to get this handled before the big boss leaves in one month.  He is for sure getting the short end of the stick and it  needs to be rectified.  I am just providing my interpretation of why that actually happened.  So many people jump the rails and immediately say to leave the job, that they are screwing you over.  I really don't think that is the intention of the players involved here.  People generally are so self-centered and self-absorbed that they don't see how their actions are have unintended consequences.  The big boss is taking the easy way out (as most would do), and it hurt shady.  Shady needs to fix that --- that is all I am getting at.  But, he doesn't need to go in ready to start WWIII, he just needs to be proactive and get things taken care of, and let them know that he is materially impacted by these decisions.  

How do you suppose I square things away? 

Big boss told me before he leaves he's pushing to put promotion through. He said no promises but he also wouldn't have told me if it wasn't likely. That was word for word what he told me. Am I supposed to ask for that in writing. They'd never do that. 

 

[The Ref]

Basically im giving Big Boss next month to make things right and if not I will talk to new Big Boss. If still not satisfied I will look elsewhere. 

I do love it here and I am a superstar. For whatever reason I got screwed this year though. 

This.

dont count on anything from Big Boss he has obviously checked out.  

When the new boss gets there print the paper work of last year vs this year and lay it out for him.  Then hit him with the “how would you feel if...” and see how it goes.  Imply as though the only reason why you haven’t left was because you like it here and you were optimistic that as new boss something can be worked out.

pivot off this.   If he gives the “I’m new and the past is the past” it’s time to leave.  If it’s “I’m new but this seems like BS, let me work on it” then you need to decide how much time he gets.

for what it’s worth I was in a similar situation last year and I just got my review this morning and I Made VP with a 38.5% raise.  I’m happy I stayed but it was a bit of a slap to have to wait the year.

 

[The Ref]

For your first part, I would argue that a bonus should never be considered part of take home pay.  There is a reason it is a bonus and not part of your base salary.  The company could crush it one year from a large windfall and give out bonuses that are 50% more than the year before.  Should you now always expect that?  If you make less than that the next year, are you now feeling slighted?  I am not sure how big shady's company is, but the dollar amount allocated to bonuses in small and medium size companies vary greatly from one year to the next.  The more profitable the company, the higher the bonus.  The better an individual performs, the higher percent of that total pool they are likely to receive.

All of the above is a bit moot, but there seems to be some disconnect from what I am saying to how it is being interpreted.  For the bolded, I 100% agree. I said that shady needs to get this handled before the big boss leaves in one month.  He is for sure getting the short end of the stick and it  needs to be rectified.  I am just providing my interpretation of why that actually happened.  So many people jump the rails and immediately say to leave the job, that they are screwing you over.  I really don't think that is the intention of the players involved here.  People generally are so self-centered and self-absorbed that they don't see how their actions are have unintended consequences.  The big boss is taking the easy way out (as most would do), and it hurt shady.  Shady needs to fix that --- that is all I am getting at.  But, he doesn't need to go in ready to start WWIII, he just needs to be proactive and get things taken care of, and let them know that he is materially impacted by these decisions.  

Your point on bonus is industry specific.  Plus there are obviously games played with bonus where it makes up for people who have less base.  My company the people who have bee there a long time have a hard time getting merit increases because it becomes perminant run Rate expense.  New people come in and make more because of improved market conditions.   What mangers typically do in my company is award the first chunk of bonus pool to level off the plying field and then allocate from there.

 

[snogger]

Best advice from experience is to run, don't walk to find a new company.

Early 2018 I received one of those "Lateral Promotions". Took on more responsibility with no pay increase..
By the time reviews rolled around late 2018 I started pressing for a pay increase.. After being asked, I sent information to the Director regarding the Average pay for what I was doing with a side note of "I'm not asking for the full value, but a increase of more than 2% would be nice" .. Got the whooping 2% increase, same I had been getting for the past 3 years.

Started thinking of looking elsewhere by January 2019 but didn't take it serious.. Then BAM, March 2019 I, along with about 300 others, were laid off...
Had I stayed at my original position I would have still had a job.. Instead I took a "Promotion" and then got the boot.

But, in the end all is good. Have a new job now where they see the value I bring and the potential of what I am doing to become a team upon itself with me leading it.

And, in less then a year, I have already received a REAL promotion with a significant raise.  

 

[shadyridr]

The company I work for bases bonuses on how the company is doing and the rating you get during annual review.

They tell us the factor for the first part. Our factor this year was .925. Basically, all things being equal our bonuses decreased 7.5%. I don't worry about this part too much as I have no control over it.

The second part is based on your rating. My rating was one step lower than the prior year. My overall bonus was down 20%. Therefore, my bonus decreased appx 12% due to decreased rating.

 

[gianmarco]

How do you suppose I square things away? 

Big boss told me before he leaves he's pushing to put promotion through. He said no promises but he also wouldn't have told me if it wasn't likely. That was word for word what he told me. Am I supposed to ask for that in writing. They'd never do that. 

This, again, is just a huge red flag.  Why wouldn't they if they were serious about honoring their side?

This is why things get written down.  If you are a valued employee and are doing what's being asked, they should have ZERO issue with sitting down and coming to an agreement and getting it down on paper.  If they are avoiding that it's because they have no intention of following through.  Same as I wouldn't trust a company I'm hiring for work that isn't willing to put down the terms in writing, I'd trust a company I work for that pays my salary even less if they won't do the same.

This isn't about things getting overlooked.  This is about stringing you along until it action is finally taken, either on your part or theirs.  There's no clear timetable.  Until then, you keep showing up for work, doing your part, and not getting compensated appropriately.  They've already screwed you over in the last few months with the review and not making it right.  I wouldn't hesitate at all to request that all these promises and assurances get written down, whether they are staying or leaving.

And, unless you have something to fall back on, you're at their mercy no matter what you'd prefer.  Start looking at other options and get things potentially lined up if things don't change soon.

 

[Sand]

That’s a really short timeframe with a lot of movement.  I think it’s likely you got caught in the shuffle and it wasn’t a personal decision.

Yet someone actually rated him, pushed it through HR, and delivered it to Shady.  So someone made it personal.

 

[encaitar]

Honest advice...  there's a lot of jobs out there.  There aren't a lot of jobs that you'll "love" going to work for.  If this company is a job that you actually love, give them a chance to make it right.

Your "Big Boss" claims he is going to get you the promotion officially.  Give him the chance to do it.  If he doesn't come through, then yes... time to get the resume out there.

Even if he doesn't come through, I'd still sit down with the new Big Boss and have an honest and open talk about what happened and why it doesn't sit right with you.  Give him a chance to make it right too.  Sometimes a new perspective like that will help see the truth of how you got screwed by the current management and might make it right.  Most likely though, if your current BB doesn't get you the promotion, it means it isn't coming.  

 

[DocHolliday]

Honest advice...  there's a lot of jobs out there.  There aren't a lot of jobs that you'll "love" going to work for.  If this company is a job that you actually love, give them a chance to make it right.

Your "Big Boss" claims he is going to get you the promotion officially.  Give him the chance to do it.  If he doesn't come through, then yes... time to get the resume out there.

Even if he doesn't come through, I'd still sit down with the new Big Boss and have an honest and open talk about what happened and why it doesn't sit right with you.  Give him a chance to make it right too.  Sometimes a new perspective like that will help see the truth of how you got screwed by the current management and might make it right.  Most likely though, if your current BB doesn't get you the promotion, it means it isn't coming.  

It’s easy for Shady to be ticked off but these things happen when organizations are going through change.   It’s difficult, but Shady needs to not take it personally and to give things a chance for the next 6-12 months. Loving your workplace is a huge factor.  If he is worth as much to company as he thinks, he will be rewarded in one year.  

 

[SFBayDuck]

nothing to add, sorry, but reading this makes me so glad I left corporate office life....big boss...little boss..lateral moves...somewhat maybe efficient ratings....Fudge that noise. And companies wonder why corporations are less efficient, too much time and effort jerking around with internal policy and ranking that in the end just piss employees off and less time doing actual work. 

Thinking the same thing. How big is this company?

There’s a reason when I decided last year it was time to leave a 400,000 employee company that I only targeted small companies. I’m at a 150 person company now and it’s so nice not to have to deal with this kind of bs anymore. 

 

[Jaysus]

Exactly. Bog Boss told me he thought I did a better job this past year than prior year. And I said, I wish that was reflected in the rating. I have been completely open and honest about my disapproval of my rating and how it makes no sense that I am getting paid less after a promotion. My new boss even seemed ashamed to hand me my comp statement and promised he will fight for me more next year.

Do you any of this documented?  It is worth retaining if so. 

 

[Jaysus]

P.S. I think I work for the same company as Shady 

ETA: if I do, you won't even have a bonus to worry about in 2020 angry face emoji

 

[otb_lifer]

Yet someone actually rated him, pushed it through HR, and delivered it to Shady.  So someone made it personal.

and maybe that someone senses the vibe our friend is throwing about being a "superstar" who can "do #### others can only dream of" doing. 

not saying any of those claims are falsehoods, but ... it's usually when one thinks their #### doesn't stink that they are served up a reminder that it does. 

dunno, man ... i haven't labored for anyone else in some 25+ years (gleefully/bountifully self employed), but it always struck me that hubris hit hardest on the way down.  saw it happen to a few co-workers back in the day.  

best of luck to you, Shady ✌

 

[jvdesigns2002]

The job market is robust and the number of skilled employees looking for work is pretty limited.  Right now companies should be doing everything they can to retain good employees and your company obviously doesn’t understand that.   I’d have a conversation with the big boss and just tell him that you deserve more than how they are treating you and that you are willing to leave unless you get some guarantees.   You cannot count on others in a workplace to fight for you—as he’s already had a chance to fight for you—and failed to produce any results.  Either they cater to you—or they suffer the very expensive task of trying to find somebody and train them to do what you already do very well.    If you are a superstar at your current job—-you’ll have no problem being a superstar for a different company that will compensate and treat you better.  

 

[jonessed]

Yet someone actually rated him, pushed it through HR, and delivered it to Shady.  So someone made it personal.

Not necessarily.  

 

[shadyridr]

and maybe that someone senses the vibe our friend is throwing about being a "superstar" who can "do #### others can only dream of" doing. 

not saying any of those claims are falsehoods, but ... it's usually when one thinks their #### doesn't stink that they are served up a reminder that it does. 

dunno, man ... i haven't labored for anyone else in some 25+ years (gleefully/bountifully self employed), but it always struck me that hubris hit hardest on the way down.  saw it happen to a few co-workers back in the day.  

best of luck to you, Shady ✌

What's wrong about being confident in what you do?

 

[otb_lifer]

What's wrong about being confident in what you do?

nothing at all. 

i quoted the fella who said "someone made it personal", so, bereft of any other explanation, was tossing that out as a possibility. 

it happens.  

 

[glvsav37]

Thinking the same thing. How big is this company?

There’s a reason when I decided last year it was time to leave a 400,000 employee company that I only targeted small companies. I’m at a 150 person company now and it’s so nice not to have to deal with this kind of bs anymore. 

I downsized to an office of 1

but even at 150 there has got to be some BS....the agency I left only had about 30 and it was still bogged down in performance metrics review type BS that never made anyone happy 

 

[falguy]

To be clear this would likely bother me as well but as I get older I tend to not worry about things as I used to. Now, depending on how many actual dollars you are talking about, maybe I would be more likely to get fired up.

Not sure what amount of bonus money you get but my company may give out a $500 to $1000 bonus depending on our individual ratings. 20% less is going to be pretty minimal in the big picture. Therefore I dont sweat it. Also why I dont work that hard because I dont feel it's worth it. I'm better than most but dont want to be the guy that has to resolve things at midnight on a Saturday. 

Even if it was a standard 5k bonus I'm only losing 1k due to my lower rating. In canada with taxes that's about 500 bucks. 

Just my 2cents. 

 

[shadyridr]

To be clear this would likely bother me as well but as I get older I tend to not worry about things as I used to. Now, depending on how many actual dollars you are talking about, maybe I would be more likely to get fired up.

Not sure what amount of bonus money you get but my company may give out a $500 to $1000 bonus depending on our individual ratings. 20% less is going to be pretty minimal in the big picture. Therefore I dont sweat it. Also why I dont work that hard because I dont feel it's worth it. I'm better than most but dont want to be the guy that has to resolve things at midnight on a Saturday. 

Even if it was a standard 5k bonus I'm only losing 1k due to my lower rating. In canada with taxes that's about 500 bucks. 

Just my 2cents. 

It's much higher. Im a FBG dammit!

 

[brun]

IMO a "lateral promotion" isn't a promotion. It's a transfer to another job with different responsibilities.

The boss is working on the real promotion based on how you're doing in the new role. So it's a trial, but it seems like it was offered and agreed to very casually and a lot was assumed. Was there a defined trial period? What happens if it doesn't work out? Do you get your old job back? In hindsight, the review period probably would have made a good time to evaluate and formally award the job along with a promotional raise etc.

Goofiness compounded by new bosses etc. I don't know that I'd push for a sooner rather than later decision, but I think it's reasonable to have an understanding of the timetable.

Good luck.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Been thinking about this one.  That lower job rating really needs to be fixed.  Down the road, people who weren't involved in this original discussion are going to see that and have no idea why you were not rated more highly.  It could affect you for a long time.

 

[shadyridr]

IMO a "lateral promotion" isn't a promotion. It's a transfer to another job with different responsibilities.

The boss is working on the real promotion based on how you're doing in the new role. So it's a trial, but it seems like it was offered and agreed to very casually and a lot was assumed. Was there a defined trial period? What happens if it doesn't work out? Do you get your old job back? In hindsight, the review period probably would have made a good time to evaluate and formally award the job along with a promotional raise etc.

Goofiness compounded by new bosses etc. I don't know that I'd push for a sooner rather than later decision, but I think it's reasonable to have an understanding of the timetable.

Good luck.

You know what they say about assuming? That's what I did. I assumed the real promotion would come during the annual review time. Especially after i delivered something and saved my new managers ###. My manager even put that #### in my review! That's why I was shocked by my rating and feel a bit confused about everything that's happened this last month. I even told Big Boss im getting mixed signals and I'm confused. 

 

[shadyridr]

Been thinking about this one.  That lower job rating really needs to be fixed.  Down the road, people who weren't involved in this original discussion are going to see that and have no idea why you were not rated more highly.  It could affect you for a long time.

Yep

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

You know what they say about assuming? That's what I did. I assumed the real promotion would come during the annual review time. Especially after i delivered something and saved my new managers ###. My manager even put that #### in my review! That's why I was shocked by my rating and feel a bit confused about everything that's happened this last month. I even told Big Boss im getting mixed signals and I'm confused. 

He also put down that he was actually the one responsible for it and put it on his resume.  That's how he got the new better gig.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Congrats!

 

[Long Ball Larry]

oops, should have finished reading the thread title!

 

[jrt103]

They had to cut your pay  so Bill Lumbergh's stock will go up a quarter of a point.

Its not personal 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

sorry to hear shady ...I had something similarly happen to me, but I hung in there and it worked out.  

But it was pretty frustrating while I was going through it.  I made a big career shift within the wireline telephone company I worked for but I moved from being in charge of the company's PR/advertising/employee communications to working in the data center ops.  I had zero experience there so they were encouraged by what I had done before with developing a quality program and overall quality movement in telephone operations (remember and/or look up Tom Peters).  

It took me crushing the original job I was hired for, and then being promoted to oversee the corporation's data network techs and control center.  But I got that raise and another large a couple of months after that.  Getting the money I was promised initially took around 9-10 months and the got the other promotion within a couple of months.  The whole thing took about a year.  

I also got the meets requirements type review (and no increase) when my yearly evaluation came up a couple of months after taking the job.  It was hurtful, but understandable - the evaluation was for the current job, not overall past performance.  It wasn't fair ...but that was the situation anyone new would be in.  

It was a big move, a big chance, and I suffered through it (money-wise ...I liked the job).  And it got me even better known across the company, which helped immensely throughout my career there. 

Hang in there man. It will happen.  

 

[DallasDMac]

For your first part, I would argue that a bonus should never be considered part of take home pay.  There is a reason it is a bonus and not part of your base salary. 

My company pitches the bonus structure every single interview. It's always given and is a large part of the pay structure. It makes the pay quite good. Without it, they would probably lose quite a few quality hires. So your argument doesn't always stand true. Every company is different.

 

[Thorpe]

My company pitches the bonus structure every single interview. It's always given and is a large part of the pay structure. It makes the pay quite good. Without it, they would probably lose quite a few quality hires. So your argument doesn't always stand true. Every company is different.

Some places a bonus is part of the salary, other places it isn't.  If a company pays out a lot in salary they may want the flexibility to cut those costs in a down year, this would be the case for financial companies.  Other places uses bonuses like sales commissions.

Every place I worked, they would promise us multiple bonuses in the next few months, then never deliver, then half the workers would look for new jobs.  The one guy who was indispensable or connected to management might get half the bonus offered. Places like this, a bonus is really a bonus.  

 

[xulf]

My company pitches the bonus structure every single interview. It's always given and is a large part of the pay structure. It makes the pay quite good. Without it, they would probably lose quite a few quality hires. So your argument doesn't always stand true. Every company is different.

If it is part of your standard salary/wages it is not a bonus.  

 

[DallasDMac]

If it is part of your standard salary/wages it is not a bonus.  

It isn't guaranteed. It's awarded at the end of the year in a lump-sum payment based on how the Executive Council rates performance. It comes in the paycheck under the heading "annual bonus." So yea, I'm pretty it's a bonus. That being said, they have never NOT paid it. If they did, there would be a mass exodus of the most employable folks as it would put them below the pay scale of their competitors and, simply put, those places would love to have these folks.

Point being, if someone if used to a 15% bonus year after year and it suddenly drops to the point that your annual payment block on your W-2 is 20%  less than the year before, then yes, you took a pay cut.

 

[sports_fan]

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/730888-assing-for-a-raise/