Government employee thread! (Being a government employee is sweet) (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

and we never received a definitive answer on if DoD was eligible for the deferred resignation

With a few thousand applying for it here, it sure looks like Army civilians are eligible.

 

[-OZ-]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

 

[nightmare]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

The department of Energy was started by President Carter with one directive.
Eliminate or reduce this Country's dependence on foreign oil.

 

[the moops]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

Don't you have emails that they used to apply for the job? Or a linkedin profile? Or a colleague that became friendly with them? I kinda agree with the on this one. If you want to find someone, it isn't that difficult

 

[fatness]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

Not every manager in the US is as diligent or intrusive as you are. Not every employee is willing to divulge that information. Several people in this topic have told you that besides me.

And "they struggled to find them because they didn't have their new contact information" sounds less to me like a statement of fact and more like an [insert excuse here for now] because they hadn't devoted many people hours to try to contact those employees. The government emphasis now is cutting people, not finding people who were wronged and rectifying things.

 

[fatness]

There is help for probationary employees who were terminated
(posting this in case it's of any help to anyone)

"One labor and employment attorney with more than 20 years of federal experience said there are at least three things these job seekers should keep in mind:

• If not removed for misconduct, employees can continue federal health insurance for up to 18 months, but they must pay full premiums (employee and agency share) and there is an administrative fee. They file an SF-2809 which can be found on the OPM website. An option, if married to another federal employee, is to be added to your spouse’s federal health plan, because your loss of employment qualifies as a major life event and allows enrollment outside of Open Season.
• Your life insurance continues for 31 days.
• You may qualify for unemployment because your removal (as phrased in the OPM notification) is not based on misconduct. See your state’s Department of Labor or state unemployment office website.

Another labor and employment attorney reminded federal workers they do qualify for unemployment insurance. “A common misconception is that you can fire a probationary employee for any reason (so long as it’s not discrimination, whistleblower retaliation, and/or political affiliation). That is not true,” wrote Michal Shinnar, an employment lawyer for Joseph Greenwald & Laake in a post on LinkedIN. “Just because they terminated you doesn’t mean it’s legal, and that you don’t have recourse.”"

 

[fatness]

More firings coming up.

"The administration is preparing to fire hundreds of high-level Department of Homeland Security employees this week as part of a move to rid the country’s third-largest agency of people deemed to be misaligned with the administration’s goals"
---------------------------------------

"the Forest Service anticipated firing about 3,400 federal employees across “every level of the agency” as part of the Trump administration’s efforts to reduce the federal workforce. Wildland firefighters, law enforcement officers and other employees with a public safety nexus were exempted from the firing initiative."

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

The department of Energy was started by President Carter with one directive.
Eliminate or reduce this Country's dependence on foreign oil.

To be clear, the short-lived Energy Research and Development Agency and the Atomic Energy Commission before that held much of what became DOE mission space. DOE was just the latest iteration, and the Carter administration took on other significant energy-related policy changes.

 

[Manster]

I may have missed the goal, how much do they want to downsize, 20%? I'm sure there is a lot of bloat

Not a trumper first of all......I am however a lifelong private sector worker. My wife was state gub employee for like 5 years. She quit because she had a strong work ethic, and saw too many lazy people. Working harder didn't really get her anywhere.

Extreme waste in the gub agency she worked for. Meanwhile, my biz is in danger of going out of biz if we don't make money.

So, while I may not agree with Trump's methods, I think he's on to something here.

 

[The Z Machine]

Maybe they should try to identify the not-so-hard-working government employees and fire them first? I'd probably keep many of the probationary employees (particularly ones that switched roles but had years of experience in the government) rather than chop all probationary workers. Seems like the goal isn't "efficiency" (i.e. getting the good or the same output from lower input) but simply cost cutting regardless of the outcomes. Also, it feels like score settling + cronyism and not a good faith effort to find excess expenditures.

 

[The Z Machine]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

The department of Energy was started by President Carter with one directive.
Eliminate or reduce this Country's dependence on foreign oil.

To be clear, the short-lived Energy Research and Development Agency and the Atomic Energy Commission before that held much of what became DOE mission space. DOE was just the latest iteration, and the Carter administration took on other significant energy-related policy changes.

Sande, you guys doing OK at the lab?

 

[3C's]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

Not every manager in the US is as diligent or intrusive as you are. Not every employee is willing to divulge that information. Several people in this topic have told you that besides me.

And "they struggled to find them because they didn't have their new contact information" sounds less to me like a statement of fact and more like an [insert excuse here for now] because they hadn't devoted many people hours to try to contact those employees. The government emphasis now is cutting people, not finding people who were wronged and rectifying things.

No one at my work has my personal cell and they'll never get it. If I were terminated like these people my work phone would be turned off and good chance it would be dropped in the river down the road. They have my home address but my next level up is hours away from here. Their best chance would be some sort of overnight courier.

 

[Capella]

So, while I may not agree with Trump's methods, I think he's on to something here.

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

 

[FarFromHome]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

 

[Instinctive]

So, while I may not agree with Trump's methods, I think he's on to something here.

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

FWIW, I think he just said he may not agree with the methods. Let's not argue and flame for the sake of arguing and flaming.

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

 

[belljr]

So the first time in my career I was bumped to recall status. I was always in essential but last time they trimmed a few people and I was moved to recall. My manager said he already tried to move me but they can't since that was set from the last time.

So that's another thing to worry about

 

[FarFromHome]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

Ya. I get that. In the end its still people. I guess shouldn't we have more incentive to downsize the 2.4 million plus federal employees for the reasons u mentioned? The shock and awe of this is a little much, but it seems logical. I think. I reserve the right to change my opinion as new info comes in. All my opinion.

 

[FarFromHome]

So the first time in my career I was bumped to recall status. I was always in essential but last time they trimmed a few people and I was moved to recall. My manager said he already tried to move me but they can't since that was set from the last time.

So that's another thing to worry about

Sorry to hear. I remember being "essential" during COVID going to work each day watching my buddies get paid to stay home. I wish I was "recall" then. Crazy how quickly things change. Really hoping it works out for you.

 

[belljr]

Just so depressing today, lost a bunch of good people and we were already short-staffed

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

Ya. I get that. In the end it’s still people. I guess shouldn't we have more incentive to downsize the 2.4 million plus federal employees for the reasons u mentioned? The shock and awe of this is a little much, but it seems logical. I think. I reserve the right to change my opinion as new info comes in. All my opinion.

I never like to see anyone lose their job but that’s a reality and part of doing business. I hope they all land on their feet. We probably do need to reduce some of our federal work force. This seems to be done haphazardly and with little regard for what people do, their performance or well being. My larger concern though is what are the roles these people served and what happens without them? What happens to the state of the National Parks in Montana without those workers to take care of them? Do we have the staff needed to stop a future terrorist from crossing the border? Do we have the proper staff to ensure air travel remains safe? By slashing all the young new staff from the CDC, will we have the next generation of experts needed to protect us from future outbreaks?

 

[AAABatteries]

So the first time in my career I was bumped to recall status. I was always in essential but last time they trimmed a few people and I was moved to recall. My manager said he already tried to move me but they can't since that was set from the last time.

So that's another thing to worry about

Can you explain what that means?

 

[Ilov80s]

I am not sure yet if this will impact any of my students but a large federally funded grant that helped pay to provide support for students with disabilities to help them transition from high school to post secondary was eliminated. Anyone in special ed knows transition is a key word. The kids have transition plans to try and help them go from HS to college, trade school, employment, semi-independent living, etc with the supports in place they might need to be successful. I am talking kids with learning disabilities, autism, vision/hearing loss, brain injuries, etc. They often need a lot of support transitioning into adult life. There is some talk that maybe the reason this grant money was targeted was because it had the word transition in it and what someone with no special education background might have thought it meant. We are actually having some talks about the possible need to rewrite our SE materials and come up with a new word to use instead so we can perhaps not be a target.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there ANYONE here who doesn't agree that there is bloat in our federal government and it's agencies? Anyone? I really wish people would pay attention to what is being said vs what is being done. It's maddening. There's a ton to be addressed and this has been true for the better part of 40+ years if my observations and what my dad has told me are correct. What is going on is NOT addressing those problems in any meaningful way.

 

[belljr]

So the first time in my career I was bumped to recall status. I was always in essential but last time they trimmed a few people and I was moved to recall. My manager said he already tried to move me but they can't since that was set from the last time.

So that's another thing to worry about

Can you explain what that means?

So if there is a government shutdown, essential employees still show up, keep day to day stuff going. Non essential are people that do work but are not needed for day to day. For example, a software developer that works on system updates technically aren't needed.

The past year they recategorized things because they felt they didn't need as many people to run the day to day. So I was put in a new category called recall. So I'm in between essential and non essential. It basically means there could be something I'm needed for in my expertise but I'm not needed in the day to day.

 

[Stoneworker]

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

So your "fire all the probationary ones" comment is merely inflammatory hyberbole when in reality it's a relatively low percentage

Plus you have no basis whatsoever to claim "working the hardest." Someone new to the job could just as easily be unproductive due to learning curve

 

[Stoneworker]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

Objectives change and tax money gets allocated toward new priorities all the time. That's how democracy works

And last I checked both the legislative and executive branches of the gov't are "elected representatives."

 

[FarFromHome]

Always loved the idea of they way they assigned employees into essential and non essential categories. It's so federal government that all employees are given a category:

We really need you

We mostly need you

We kinda need you

We only need you when we need you

 

[Stoneworker]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

From last week's USA Today and to your point...

Meta cut roughly 5% of its staff this week, letting go of more than 3,000 employees. Workplace management software company Workday laid off about 1,750 employees, or 8.5% of the staff, earlier this month. Google is offering voluntary buyouts to workers in its platforms and devices unit.

 

[-OZ-]

Always loved the idea of they way they assigned employees into essential and non essential categories. It's so federal government that all employees are given a category:

We really need you

We mostly need you

We kinda need you

We only need you when we need you

I guess. Or people they need long term but could take a day or week off without anyone dying.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

 

[Hawks64]

Just so depressing today, lost a bunch of good people and we were already short-staffed

This just sucks GB. I know how this is weighing on you.

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

Objectives change and tax money gets allocated toward new priorities all the time. That's how democracy works

And last I checked both the legislative and executive branches of the gov't are "elected representatives."

He asked why people are talking about this more than say if Ford decided to layoff a few thousand employees or Walmart was closing dozens of locations. I explained why. It had nothing to do with whether it was right or wrong or justified. Just why it was worthy of so much discussion .

 

[Ilov80s]

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

So your "fire all the probationary ones" comment is merely inflammatory hyberbole when in reality it's a relatively low percentage

Plus you have no basis whatsoever to claim "working the hardest." Someone new to the job could just as easily be unproductive due to learning curve

I assume you meant 28k who have been there less than 2 years.

 

[Stoneworker]

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

So your "fire all the probationary ones" comment is merely inflammatory hyberbole when in reality it's a relatively low percentage

Plus you have no basis whatsoever to claim "working the hardest." Someone new to the job could just as easily be unproductive due to learning curve

I assume you meant 28k who have been there less than 2 years.

About 280,000 employees out of the 2.3 million member civilian federal workforce were hired in the last two years, with most still on probation and easier to fire, according to government data

Reuters on X

 

[Ilov80s]

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

So your "fire all the probationary ones" comment is merely inflammatory hyberbole when in reality it's a relatively low percentage

Plus you have no basis whatsoever to claim "working the hardest." Someone new to the job could just as easily be unproductive due to learning curve

I assume you meant 28k who have been there less than 2 years.

About 280,000 employees out of the 2.3 million member civilian federal workforce were hired in the last two years, with most still on probation and easier to fire, according to government data

Reuters on X

Got it, I misread a previous part of your post that I thought contradicted the other number. My bad.

 

[Stoneworker]

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

So your "fire all the probationary ones" comment is merely inflammatory hyberbole when in reality it's a relatively low percentage

Plus you have no basis whatsoever to claim "working the hardest." Someone new to the job could just as easily be unproductive due to learning curve

I assume you meant 28k who have been there less than 2 years.

About 280,000 employees out of the 2.3 million member civilian federal workforce were hired in the last two years, with most still on probation and easier to fire, according to government data

Reuters on X

Got it, I misread a previous part of your post that I thought contradicted the other number. My bad.

All good. Sometimes I type a little too fast and grammar not so great

 

[FarFromHome]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

Wasnt really asking a question. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing. Also, people for decades have commented on government spending being a big problem. To fix that problem it feels like they needed to adopt some business principles. Business principles would start with downsizing payroll. My point is when pushing for efficiency in the business world and in the government world real people are left on the outside looking in. My brain understands what's going on, but my heart also has compassion for what's going on. Just an interesting scenario playing out live for us. All my uneducated opinion of course.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

Wasnt really asking a question. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing. Also, people for decades have commented on government spending being a big problem. To fix that problem it feels like they needed to adopt some business principles. Business principles would start with downsizing payroll. My point is when pushing for efficiency in the business world and in the government world real people are left on the outside looking in. My brain understands what's going on, but my heart also has compassion for what's going on. Just an interesting scenario playing out live for us. All my uneducated opinion of course.

Got it. I'm rather confident that a private industry layoff that was done haphazardly and in a way that doesn't address the company's stated objective would probably get some "buzz". This is why I posed the question before if anyone disagreed that things had to be addressed. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that statement. We know there is bloat. We know there are inefficiencies. We know that the federal government is HUGE. We know that the correct approach would take a massive effort in research and analysis. <--- This part is where the "buzz" is coming from IMO. There is a major disconnect on that point. They have to explain to us how what they are doing is moving towards their stated goal. The two clearly aren't meshing with each other and the people left in the wake of chaos are getting screwed.

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

Wasnt really asking a question. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing. Also, people for decades have commented on government spending being a big problem. To fix that problem it feels like they needed to adopt some business principles. Business principles would start with downsizing payroll. My point is when pushing for efficiency in the business world and in the government world real people are left on the outside looking in. My brain understands what's going on, but my heart also has compassion for what's going on. Just an interesting scenario playing out live for us. All my uneducated opinion of course.

It does make sense. The speed and sloppiness at which it's happening is concerning people. I also think there is a lot of distrust of Elon and the secret DOGE team behind this all combined with a significant conflict of interest seeing as his companies have been among the biggest benefactors of government grants, funding, tax rebates, etc. It's all just messy right now which creates a ton of uncerainty which can be worse than just having the bad news upfront.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Is there ANYONE here who doesn't agree that there is bloat in our federal government and it's agencies? Anyone? I really wish people would pay attention to what is being said vs what is being done. It's maddening. There's a ton to be addressed and this has been true for the better part of 40+ years if my observations and what my dad has told me are correct. What is going on is NOT addressing those problems in any meaningful way.

Really don’t want to go down this political path and shut down this thread….

 

[-OZ-]

n. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing.

Mostly? One is expected and the other isn’t.
One of the biggest perks of being a government employee is the safety / security. I know, or used to know, that as long as I’m performing adequately I can bank on my continued employment at the same salary with small increases and the occasional promotion. We don’t get large bonuses or significant increases in salary unless we compete for a promotion. I can’t go into my boss’s office and make an argument for increased salary (with any chance of success). Those in business trade off some risk for reward.
Now that we’re seeing the risk increase without the reward, we start to wonder if it’s worth it, and know that others will contemplate the same.

Yes there should be a review of what is needed and a plan for a RIF if appropriate. But we expect a plan both transparent and logical.

 

[-OZ-]

lot of distrust of Elon and the secret DOGE team behind this all combined with a significant conflict of interest seeing as his companies have been among the biggest benefactors of government grants, funding, tax rebates, etc.

When a multi billionaire business owner with financing as part of the business is pushing to cut the consumer financial protection bureau, many of us see that as a problem.

 

[djmich]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

Wasnt really asking a question. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing. Also, people for decades have commented on government spending being a big problem. To fix that problem it feels like they needed to adopt some business principles. Business principles would start with downsizing payroll. My point is when pushing for efficiency in the business world and in the government world real people are left on the outside looking in. My brain understands what's going on, but my heart also has compassion for what's going on. Just an interesting scenario playing out live for us. All my uneducated opinion of course.

Got it. I'm rather confident that a private industry layoff that was done haphazardly and in a way that doesn't address the company's stated objective would probably get some "buzz". This is why I posed the question before if anyone disagreed that things had to be addressed. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that statement. We know there is bloat. We know there are inefficiencies. We know that the federal government is HUGE. We know that the correct approach would take a massive effort in research and analysis. <--- This part is where the "buzz" is coming from IMO. There is a major disconnect on that point. They have to explain to us how what they are doing is moving towards their stated goal. The two clearly aren't meshing with each other and the people left in the wake of chaos are getting screwed.

Almost all of the layoffs I’ve participated in within the private sector to some level felt wrong and sometimes haphazard. The folks doing the work never think less resources is a good idea. As a client of some of these companies looking at the companies doing the layoffs from the outside I am usually like “welp, that makes no sense, their service sucks already”. From the outside looking in this effort by the admin certainly has some appearance of haphazard…but honestly the numbers don’t seem very big to me so far.

I do think that in general for any administration, but especially one with one term and a bit of catching lightning in a bottle with political capital you want to get as much done as possible in the first 100 days before political and bureaucratic rigor mortis sets in.

 

[Stoneworker]

It does make sense. The speed and sloppiness at which it's happening is concerning people. I also think there is a lot of distrust of Elon and the secret DOGE team behind this all combined with a significant conflict of interest seeing as his companies have been among the biggest benefactors of government grants, funding, tax rebates, etc. It's all just messy right now which creates a ton of uncerainty which can be worse than just having the bad news upfront.

You are absolutely correct that, while taxpayers by right did have a huge say in the general "what," by the same principles they should have their voices heard as to the general "how."

And if there's a disconnect, then perfectly appropriate to raise a ruckus. Analogous to private co. shareholders in that sense IMO

 

[FarFromHome]

n. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing.

Mostly? One is expected and the other isn’t.
One of the biggest perks of being a government employee is the safety / security. I know, or used to know, that as long as I’m performing adequately I can bank on my continued employment at the same salary with small increases and the occasional promotion. We don’t get large bonuses or significant increases in salary unless we compete for a promotion. I can’t go into my boss’s office and make an argument for increased salary (with any chance of success). Those in business trade off some risk for reward.
Now that we’re seeing the risk increase without the reward, we start to wonder if it’s worth it, and know that others will contemplate the same.

Yes there should be a review of what is needed and a plan for a RIF if appropriate. But we expect a plan both transparent and logical.

Good points. I will also add, although security safety was a factor, for me the biggest perk for federal employment was the pension. It was decades ago when I started, but I recognized the civilian sector was eliminating that golden ticket of being paid for the rest of your life even though you weren't working any longer. In this current scenario, their is gonna be examples of people taking lower paying government jobs for the pension and never acquiring one. Those laid off at less then 10 years service that took the job for the pension got hosed.

 

[Stoneworker]

you want to get as much done as possible in the first 100 days before political and bureaucratic rigor mortis sets in.

Great point

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It does make sense. The speed and sloppiness at which it's happening is concerning people. I also think there is a lot of distrust of Elon and the secret DOGE team behind this all combined with a significant conflict of interest seeing as his companies have been among the biggest benefactors of government grants, funding, tax rebates, etc. It's all just messy right now which creates a ton of uncerainty which can be worse than just having the bad news upfront.

You are absolutely correct that, while taxpayers by right did have a huge say in the general "what," by the same principles they should have their voices heard as to the general "how."

And if there's a disconnect, then perfectly appropriate to raise a ruckus. Analogous to private co. shareholders in that sense IMO

Can you describe the ruckus?

 

[-OZ-]

n. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing.

Mostly? One is expected and the other isn’t.
One of the biggest perks of being a government employee is the safety / security. I know, or used to know, that as long as I’m performing adequately I can bank on my continued employment at the same salary with small increases and the occasional promotion. We don’t get large bonuses or significant increases in salary unless we compete for a promotion. I can’t go into my boss’s office and make an argument for increased salary (with any chance of success). Those in business trade off some risk for reward.
Now that we’re seeing the risk increase without the reward, we start to wonder if it’s worth it, and know that others will contemplate the same.

Yes there should be a review of what is needed and a plan for a RIF if appropriate. But we expect a plan both transparent and logical.

Good points. I will also add, although security safety was a factor, for me the biggest perk for federal employment was the pension. It was decades ago when I started, but I recognized the civilian sector was eliminating that golden ticket of being paid for the rest of your life even though you weren't working any longer. In this current scenario, their is gonna be examples of people taking lower paying government jobs for the pension and never acquiring one. Those laid off at less then 10 years service that took the job for the pension got hosed.

That too, although it’s why I went active duty Army. Pension plus health insurance for life.

 

[McBokonon]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Because that company isn’t owned and operated by our tax money and isn’t working on objectives approved by our elected representatives and that factory wasn’t working on behalf of the US citizens. IMO it’s not just about the jobs lost but about what those people do to protect or serve our public interests.

Ya. I get that. In the end its still people. I guess shouldn't we have more incentive to downsize the 2.4 million plus federal employees for the reasons u mentioned? The shock and awe of this is a little much, but it seems logical. I think. I reserve the right to change my opinion as new info comes in. All my opinion.

I feel like this point has been made a lot but here goes again: I don’t think a lot of people disagree that some trimming might be a good thing. The main contention is with the method. Your hypothetical private company would have crunched the numbers and carefully decided which manufacturing plant was the least efficient or didn’t perform in line with costs, etc. They likely spent months if not a year or more making the decision before doing so. The “shock and awe” is anything but logical. It’s the exact opposite of logical.