Gruden Sues NFL, Goodell (2 Viewers)

[habsfan]

You aren’t getting the wide scope of what’s going on here. Nobody wants Gruden’s case to go forward bc they think he should still be employed or something. What he said was enough to get anyone fired, it was the leaks and the manner of the leaks that has peoples’ attention. People want to know what’s in the rest of the emails and who else is implicated, especially in Washington since that BS investigation was swept under the rug in a corrupt way.

This is true. The problem is, I don't see how this lawsuit will compel the league to release those emails. Even if they can trace the leak back to the league it will only lead (at best) to some sort of financial settlement for Gruden. I'm not even sure (legally) what Gruden was entitled to in terms of privacy / confidentiality where those emails are concerned.

 

[SWC]

so even if the nfl released those emails and gruden is right i dont think that would mean that he would be entitled to all the rest of the emails or a ruling that the nfl has to release them would he i think he would just be entitled to damages i dont think he gets to say jeez they harmed me by releasing these emails so now they need to harm everyone else by releasing the rest of the emails i dont think a court would go for that take that to the bank brohans 

 

[rockaction]

so even if the nfl released those emails and gruden is right i dont think that would mean that he would be entitled to all the rest of the emails or a ruling that the nfl has to release them would he i think he would just be entitled to damages i dont think he gets to say jeez they harmed me by releasing these emails so now they need to harm everyone else by releasing the rest of the emails i dont think a court would go for that take that to the bank brohans 

I think it would be in the court's records as part of discovery requests, SWC.

Let's ask Cletius how that works, though. I went to law school, graduated, passed the bar, not a lawyer. He is.

 

[habsfan]

I think it would be in the court's records as part of discovery requests, SWC.

Let's ask Cletius how that works, though. I went to law school, graduated, passed the bar, not a lawyer. He is.

The specific emails that led to Gruden's resignation, sure. I didn't go to law school but isn't the harm they are alleging that the league willfully / maliciously ensured those emails became public? If so, they need to prove that by establishing the "chain of custody" back to the league. Still not sure what he's entitled to in terms of the security / confidentiality of those emails. You can put boiler plate confidentiality language in your email signature but what is that worth? It's not like someone hacked into a server and stole his tax returns or bank statements. He typed them out and hit "send".

 

[rockaction]

The specific emails that led to Gruden's resignation, sure. I didn't go to law school but isn't the harm they are alleging that the league willfully / maliciously ensured those emails became public? If so, they need to prove that by establishing the "chain of custody" back to the league. Still not sure what he's entitled to in terms of the security / confidentiality of those emails. You can put boiler plate confidentiality language in your email signature but what is that worth? It's not like someone hacked into a server and stole his tax returns or bank statements. He typed them out and hit "send".

Ooh. I dunno. That's why I'm not a lawyer. Heh.

 

[Chaka]

He was not convicted of any crime. "Due process" has no relevance to a private company or trade association.

And he didn't even get fired.

He's not pursuing this lawsuit because he wants to rid the NFL of bad guys. He's pursuing it because he doesn't think he should be subject to consequences for his words. 

He has already paid the consequences for his words. Winning this lawsuit doesn't change that he is never working for the NFL or their broadcast partners again, ever. He's not putting that toothpaste back in the tube. 

If you can demonstrate a private party commits material harm then you are allowed to sue. Right?

I don't care why he is pursuing it, and I wouldn't rule out the desire to force the league to air all it's dirty laundry, I support this lawsuit for all the reasons I am surprised you are not.

Or do you not want to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[madshot31]

He has already paid the consequences for his words. Winning this lawsuit doesn't change that he is never working for the NFL or their broadcast partners again, ever. He's not putting that toothpaste back in the tube. 

If you can demonstrate a private party commits material harm then you are allowed to sue. Right?

I don't care why he is pursuing it, and I wouldn't rule out the desire to force the league to air all it's dirty laundry, I support this lawsuit for all the reasons I am surprised you are not.

Or do you not want to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.

How great would it be if Mark Davis supports the law suit. I could see it as his family has always felt like the NFL is out to get them, well often that is correct. 

 

[CalBear]

He has already paid the consequences for his words. Winning this lawsuit doesn't change that he is never working for the NFL or their broadcast partners again, ever. He's not putting that toothpaste back in the tube. 

If you can demonstrate a private party commits material harm then you are allowed to sue. Right?

I don't care why he is pursuing it, and I wouldn't rule out the desire to force the league to air all it's dirty laundry, I support this lawsuit for all the reasons I am surprised you are not.

Or do you not want to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Oh, I know how deep the rabbit hole goes and I'd love to see it exposed. I just don't think a tantrum from a petulant child is going to help. It's certainly not valorous. 

 

[Chaka]

Oh, I know how deep the rabbit hole goes and I'd love to see it exposed. I just don't think a tantrum from a petulant child is going to help. It's certainly not valorous. 

What debate are you having in here?

Valorous? Where did that come from? Is anyone saying Gruden is valiant? He's an ##$##$#, we all agree. Go to the Raiders thread, most of us are happy he's gone.

And it's not a tantrum, it's actually a pretty reasonable response. He was blackballed for something he said in what he, possibly mistakenly, believed to be a private communication while he was not an employee of the NFL over ten years ago. Documents that were sealed so as not to violate the privacy of some cheerleaders (allegedly). But these specific emails were selectively weaponized and released.

As a result Gruden will not be able to work in the NFL and, likely, their affiliate broadcast partners ever again. That's material harm.

No one wants to see him back in the NFL or on TV but he has a pretty reasonable argument to call #####$3#.

 

[SWC]

I think it would be in the court's records as part of discovery requests, SWC.

Let's ask Cletius how that works, though. I went to law school, graduated, passed the bar, not a lawyer. He is.

see i hope cletius answers this because i dont see why the others emails would be part of discovery in the gruden case his case would be about who leaked his emails that doesnt have anything to do with the other 650000 emails so why would they ever need to be coughed up i imagine the nfl would seek protection from having to do that is all i am saying and i think most judges would probably give it to them because although they are crummy and salashus and i would love to read them they dont really have anything to do with john grudens case about someone leaking his emails i guess that is where im coming from i think the washignton cheerleaeders would have a better chance getting them in a hostile workplace case but that is just one dumb guy in brew town take that to the bank bromigos 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think it would be in the court's records as part of discovery requests, SWC.

Let's ask Cletius how that works, though. I went to law school, graduated, passed the bar, not a lawyer. He is.

see i hope cletius answers this because i dont see why the others emails would be part of discovery in the gruden case his case would be about who leaked his emails that doesnt have anything to do with the other 650000 emails so why would they ever need to be coughed up i imagine the nfl would seek protection from having to do that is all i am saying and i think most judges would probably give it to them because although they are crummy and salashus and i would love to read them they dont really have anything to do with john grudens case about someone leaking his emails i guess that is where im coming from i think the washignton cheerleaeders would have a better chance getting them in a hostile workplace case but that is just one dumb guy in brew town take that to the bank bromigos 

I think you're correct Broheem - I can't see how Gruden's lawyers could argue the 650k emails from the WFT case are relevant to this lawsuit.  That said, if the case proceeds, they will eventually be able to take depositions and obtain documents that the NFL may not want to produce.  Hard to tell where it might lead.

 

[Chaka]

I think you're correct Broheem - I can't see how Gruden's lawyers could argue the 650k emails from the WFT case are relevant to this lawsuit.  That said, if the case proceeds, they will eventually be able to take depositions and obtain documents that the NFL may not want to produce.  Hard to tell where it might lead.

Can they argue that they need to see the 650k emails to determine if there are any others that could potentially be weaponized in the future?

 

[SWC]

that may be the first time anyone said i was correct around here i feel so happy take that to the bank brochachos 

 

[Chaka]

that may be the first time anyone said i was correct around here i feel so happy take that to the bank brochachos 

You're love of tacos has always felt pretty correct to me.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

that may be the first time anyone said i was correct around here i feel so happy take that to the bank brochachos 

You kinda reminded me of that famous OJ Simpson lawyer Johnnie Brochran Jr. for a minute there. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think you're correct Broheem - I can't see how Gruden's lawyers could argue the 650k emails from the WFT case are relevant to this lawsuit.  That said, if the case proceeds, they will eventually be able to take depositions and obtain documents that the NFL may not want to produce.  Hard to tell where it might lead.

Can they argue that they need to see the 650k emails to determine if there are any others that could potentially be weaponized in the future?

They can always make that argument, but I don't think it will go far.  A plaintiff doesn't have a right to take discovery in lawsuit A to investigate (unfiled) lawsuit B.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Nevada Court has denied the NFL's motion to compel arbitration of the lawsuit - a pretty big blow to the defense effort to move the case to a private venue with restricted discovery.  The case will be litigated in a real court.  This one always seemed like a long shot to me because Gruden didn't have a contractual relationship with the NFL.

The parties are now arguing the NFL's motion to dismiss. The live feed is here: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=404784004676001

One interesting point that seems to be coming out in argument - Gruden's lawyer is alleging that someone with the NFL leaked the Gruden emails to the WSJ and NYT. Maybe I'd missed something along the way - did not know they had identified the source of the leak. Gruden's lawyer says the NFL leaked the emails and pressured the Raiders to fire Gruden.  The NFL threated that additional emails would be leaked if the Raiders didn't act quickly.  Gruden then resigned (with an undisclosed settlement) and sued.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

NFL Motion to Dismiss denied.  Its a good day for Gruden.

“We are going to let the process take care of itself. Good luck to the Raiders. Go Raiders.”

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Nevada Court has denied the NFL's motion to compel arbitration of the lawsuit - a pretty big blow to the defense effort to move the case to a private venue with restricted discovery. The case will be litigated in a real court. This one always seemed like a long shot to me because Gruden didn't have a contractual relationship with the NFL.

Nearly two years later, this ruling has been reversed on appeal. The Nevada Supreme Court ruled 2-1 that Gruden's claims are subject to the NFL's arbitration procedures. Gruden will likely ask for reconsideration before the entire panel of NSC judges but that seems like an uphill battle. This ruling is bad news for Gruden but his claim will proceed, just in a different, private arbitration forum. We all became more familiar with the NFL's arbitration process in the Deshaun Watson saga a while back. Goodell will certainly have to recuse himself and appoint a neutral arbitrator. This also means the case becomes much more private as compared to a public court proceeding, which is one of the main reasons so many companies require arbitration in their contracts.

NFL Wins Appeal in Jon Gruden Civil Suit

The case is now headed to the league’s own arbitration procedures as Gruden's case keeps winding its way through the legal system.

frontofficesports.com

 

[rockaction]

Game over, man.

 

[fatness]

I doubt it's game over for Gruden's lawsuit. I don't think he's ready to give up.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...-questions-this-week-about-jon-gruden-lawsuit

After losing in the Nevada Supreme Court on the question of whether his lawsuit against the NFL and Commissioner Roger Goodell will be resolved in open court or in the league’s secret, rigged, kangaroo court of arbitration, Gruden has more moves to make.

We’re told, not surprisingly, that he intends to continue to fight. Based on the Nevada Rules of Appellate Procedure, his first step will be to make a request for a rehearing before the three judges who narrowly decided the question, by a 2-1 vote. If/when the request for a rehearing is denied, Gruden will petition for a rehearing before all seven justices of the Nevada Supreme Court. The fact that he got one out of three on his side means he could, in theory, get four out of seven.

After the Nevada Supreme Court issues the final ruling on the matter, whoever loses can try to take the matter to the U.S. Supreme Court. That’s what the NFL did with the Rams relocation case. In the U.S. Supreme Court, the first step would be for the court to decide whether to take the case. Of the many petitions the U.S. Supreme Court gets, only very few are accepted.

 

[Bri]

I don't know law.
I've never understood how someone can sign a document that will supersede the law of the country and have it hold up in court.

I saw lawyers tweeting this n that about a precedent and Goodell has to be at least accountable and...I don't understand it

 

[osubuckeyeman]

This was a hit job from the start. What they did not plan for was the sleeping dragon they awoke in Gruden. The plan now is to wear Gruden out. The owners and the NFL do not want those emails released. I think there are many big-money people flexing muscles in the background. Letting Gruden back in the NFL might make this all go away. He wants to coach. I don't know for sure, but it feels that way. If he wants to burn it to the ground, discovering the truth can be a long process. I get that Gruden lost the appeal, and I'm unsure of his legal avenue from here but I don't think Gruden is done.

 

[karl.Racki]

I don't know, I am 50/50 about this.. I understand Gruden's point to a extent and do hope he takes the NFL down cause he isn't the only one that is a racist homophobe, but in the other side, Gruden is a racist homophobe so F HIM

 

[fatness]

Nevada Supreme Court blocks arbitration of Jon Gruden’s case against NFL, Roger Goodell
That's a big, big win for Gruden. The Nevada Supreme Court is the same court which originally ruled against him.

After having the Nevada Supreme Court rule that his civil lawsuit must be resolved through arbitration, Gruden filed a motion for rehearing before the full court. First, they granted the request. Now, they have ruled in his favor. In a 5-2 ruling, the Nevada Supreme Court has found that the arbitration clause contained in the NFL’s Constitution and Bylaws “is unconscionable and does not apply to Gruden as a former employee.”

The league primarily relied on the broad language of its constitution regarding the Commissioner’s power to have “full, complete, and final jurisdiction and authority to arbitrate . . . [a]ny dispute . . . that in the opinion of the Commissioner constitutes conduct detrimental to the best interests of the League or professional football.” In an eight-page decision, the Nevada Supreme Court found that the provision is unconcsionable because it “would allow Goodell, as Commissioner, to arbitrate disputes about his own conduct — exactly what is at issue here.”

 

[fatness]

Jon Gruden’s lawyers: Ruling paves way for “holding the NFL accountable”

It’s likely if not inevitable that the NFL will file a petition for appeal to the United States Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court doesn’t take the case (or if it does and the NFL loses), it will be time for the case to proceed to discovery. And that’s when the NFL may throw money at Gruden in an effort to settle his claim that the league and Commissioner Roger Goodell leaked emails he had sent while working for ESPN to multiple media outlets.

Here’s the most important question: Will he reject any offer the league makes? A July 2023 ESPN.com article about the leaked emails that forced Gruden to resign asserted that Gruden hopes “to burn the house down.”

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Put some respect on his name.

 

[fatness]

I doubt it's game over for Gruden's lawsuit. I don't think he's ready to give up.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...-questions-this-week-about-jon-gruden-lawsuit

We’re told, not surprisingly, that he intends to continue to fight. Based on the Nevada Rules of Appellate Procedure, his first step will be to make a request for a rehearing before the three judges who narrowly decided the question, by a 2-1 vote. If/when the request for a rehearing is denied, Gruden will petition for a rehearing before all seven justices of the Nevada Supreme Court. The fact that he got one out of three on his side means he could, in theory, get four out of seven.

He did better than that. He got 5 out of 7 to rule in his favor.

 

[rockaction]

Oh wow. Nobody substantively updated this? This court ruled that the NFL cannot bind non-employees to arbitration hearings. This just got good. If the NFL winds up in court, there's likely going to be discovery and those emails and correspondence thereto will likely be involved. This is a disaster for the NFL if it stands, IMO. I'd like to see what the practicing lawyers on the board think.

Nevada court apparently clears way for former Raiders coach Jon Gruden to sue NFL over emails

A Nevada court has apparently cleared the way for a 2021 lawsuit filed by former Las Vegas Raiders coach Jon Gruden to proceed against Commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL.

apnews.com

 

[rockaction]

I don't think it gets to that, but this is big for Gruden. I'm not cheering for him; I'm cheering for those documents to be released and the NFL correspondence that goes with it. This was a smear job and I think just a little too arrogant by the NFL. It was transparent from the jump.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Jon Gruden’s lawyers: Ruling paves way for “holding the NFL accountable”

It’s likely if not inevitable that the NFL will file a petition for appeal to the United States Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court doesn’t take the case (or if it does and the NFL loses), it will be time for the case to proceed to discovery. And that’s when the NFL may throw money at Gruden in an effort to settle his claim that the league and Commissioner Roger Goodell leaked emails he had sent while working for ESPN to multiple media outlets.

Here’s the most important question: Will he reject any offer the league makes? A July 2023 ESPN.com article about the leaked emails that forced Gruden to resign asserted that Gruden hopes “to burn the house down.”

I've got $5 that says the NFL exerts undue influence with a certain corruptable party to bump this up to the supreme court where the outcome is all but gauranteed.

 

[rockaction]

Jon Gruden’s lawyers: Ruling paves way for “holding the NFL accountable”

It’s likely if not inevitable that the NFL will file a petition for appeal to the United States Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court doesn’t take the case (or if it does and the NFL loses), it will be time for the case to proceed to discovery. And that’s when the NFL may throw money at Gruden in an effort to settle his claim that the league and Commissioner Roger Goodell leaked emails he had sent while working for ESPN to multiple media outlets.

Here’s the most important question: Will he reject any offer the league makes? A July 2023 ESPN.com article about the leaked emails that forced Gruden to resign asserted that Gruden hopes “to burn the house down.”

I've got $5 that says the NFL exerts undue influence with a certain corruptable party to bump this up to the supreme court where the outcome is all but gauranteed.

Avoiding the political here. They would probably have to rule something that would carry to all of labor law to do so, and I don't think they will do that. Unless they can distinguish the NFL, which will be awfully hard to do, IMO. That's why we need the practicing attorneys in here. I think they'll throw large amounts of cash at him to get him to go away. If he really wants the house burned down, it seems like he's in the driver's seat.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

 

[darksideofoz]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

two obvious examples (I disagree with the first, but it carries weight in certain circles)

1. spygate "lack of proper punishment"
2. inflategate "payback for #1"

 

[Judge Smails]

Gruden will go for the jugular. Would like to see that scowl in Roger’s face at trial

 

[psychobillies]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

I would love to see Goodell lose his job for this. I hope he gets disbarred as well. He's a lying little weasle who deserves much worse than just that.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

All company emails are just that, the property of the company. I wonder if there’s an addendum that all emails under all teams fall under the NFL company umbrella. If so, the NFL “wins”.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

Doesn't excuse the NFL
Folks know by now their computers can be scrubbed, emails etc...still doesn't excuse the NFL

The problem as many have pointed out is that Gruden turned out to be a racist homophobe like many others walking around those NFL locker rooms
In fact anyone that doesn't think there are racist homophobes walking around NFL locker rooms doesn't understand how the NFL works

Just having fun with your statement, all good

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

All company emails are just that, the property of the company. I wonder if there’s an addendum that all emails under all teams fall under the NFL company umbrella. If so, the NFL “wins”.

That’s incorrect. 1, IIRC this was an email off Gruden’s personal account & im not sure we know what email account they gathered it off of. I admit I don’t remember the details of who he was emailing or which account he was emailing to. I remember his brother was head coach there. 2, *none of that matters if it has *nothing to do with what was bein investigated. 3, And none of *that matters considering it was just leaked, & the motive for that btw is unknown.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

All company emails are just that, the property of the company. I wonder if there’s an addendum that all emails under all teams fall under the NFL company umbrella. If so, the NFL “wins”.

That’s incorrect. 1, IIRC this was an email off Gruden’s personal account & im not sure we know what email account they gathered it off of. I admit I don’t remember the details of who he was emailing or which account he was emailing to. I remember his brother was head coach there. 2, *none of that matters if it has *nothing to do with what was bein investigated. 3, And none of *that matters considering it was just leaked, & the motive for that btw is unknown.

If I send an email from my private email to my GM, guess what? The company can read it and I’ve given up my “privacy rights”

Ever dealt with a serious HR investigation?

If they find violations not related to what they’re investigating they can’t just ignore it. Their job is on the line.

Gruden f’d up. He’s a social dinosaur. Jimmy the Greek style. Not saying he’s racist. But he’s from a different era.

The NFL cares only about the NFL. Just like any billion dollar company or person should. If they are comfortable in their position they will continue to fight. If it’s tenuous, they’ll settle.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

All company emails are just that, the property of the company. I wonder if there’s an addendum that all emails under all teams fall under the NFL company umbrella. If so, the NFL “wins”.

That’s incorrect. 1, IIRC this was an email off Gruden’s personal account & I’m not sure we know what email account they gathered it off of. I admit I don’t remember the details of who he was emailing or which account he was emailing to. I remember his brother was head coach there. 2, *none of that matters if it has *nothing to do with what was being investigated. 3, And none of *that matters considering it was just leaked, & the motive for that btw is unknown.

What happened is that the NFL collected & reviewed a private email having nothing to do with the internal investigation at hand (sexual harassment at the Washington franchise) & then leaked it to the public. Who knows what the motive was. It was completely unethical & almost certainly against every conceivable labor law & probably even the NFL’s own labor agreement, possibly also privacy and data laws. I also happen to think Goodell has been a dirty dealer in other instances. It’s been a long time coming & not just for Gruden.

None of my email is truly private. Anyone that thinks email is private doesn't understand how email works.

All company emails are just that, the property of the company. I wonder if there’s an addendum that all emails under all teams fall under the NFL company umbrella. If so, the NFL “wins”.

That’s incorrect. 1, IIRC this was an email off Gruden’s personal account & im not sure we know what email account they gathered it off of. I admit I don’t remember the details of who he was emailing or which account he was emailing to. I remember his brother was head coach there. 2, *none of that matters if it has *nothing to do with what was bein investigated. 3, And none of *that matters considering it was just leaked, & the motive for that btw is unknown.

If I send an email from my private email to my GM, guess what? The company can read it and I’ve given up my “privacy rights”

Ever dealt with a serious HR investigation?

If they find violations not related to what they’re investigating they can’t just ignore it. Their job is on the line.

Gruden f’d up. He’s a social dinosaur. Jimmy the Greek style. Not saying he’s racist. But he’s from a different era.

The NFL cares only about the NFL. Just like any billion dollar company or person should. If they are comfortable in their position they will continue to fight. If it’s tenuous, they’ll settle.

Yes, I have, from the other end. The 1st question is if the person uses their personal email for business purposes. It goes on from there but there are multiple hoops. I’ll add at the root of this is whether Gruden is even bound by the NFL labor agreement because it might just apply to players. I think that was part of the discussion the NV SC just handed down.

 

[rockaction]

I think the facts of the case are really important. They will turn the case.

They are emails from when Gruden was employed by ESPN and not the NFL.

They were sent to Bruce Allen and others were CC’d.

Somebody leaked them in waves.

None of the other 650,000 emails they were in possession of were leaked or made available from the investigation.

 

[rockaction]

Anybody want to see ChatGPT5’s take? It’s really illuminating and factually correct, AFAIK

 

[rockaction]

I might do it anyway. Here we are. Caveat reador. Heh.

Alright — here’s the chain of events that brought Gruden’s emails to light:

---

Background — The Washington Investigation​

• In 2020, the NFL began investigating the Washington Football Team after reports of widespread workplace misconduct, including sexual harassment allegations.
• The investigation was led by attorney Beth Wilkinson, tasked with reviewing internal communications and workplace culture.

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How the Emails Emerged​

• As part of that probe, investigators collected hundreds of thousands of emails from Washington’s servers.
• Many were between Bruce Allen (Washington team president at the time) and outside contacts.
• This included a series of emails from Jon Gruden (2011–2018) — during his ESPN tenure — containing racist, misogynistic, and homophobic remarks.

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Leak & Fallout​

• October 8, 2021: The Wall Street Journal publishes a story on one of Gruden’s 2011 emails making a racist comment about NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith.
• October 11, 2021: The New York Times publishes more emails revealing additional offensive language and criticisms of NFL leadership, Roger Goodell, players, and more.
• The NFL had sent the Raiders portions of these emails shortly before the stories broke.

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Outcome​

• Gruden resigned as Las Vegas Raiders head coach on October 11, 2021.
• The NFL said the emails were found as part of the Washington investigation, but not all the investigation’s findings were made public — which led to accusations that the leaks were selective.
• Some speculated the emails were leaked to pressure Gruden out, since the Washington report itself remains largely sealed.

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If you want, I can map out exactly which remarks appeared in which year’s emails — it’s revealing in terms of tone changes over time. That part gets pretty granular.

 

[rockaction]

Alright — here’s the picture on the 650,000 Washington Football Team emails and why only Gruden’s became public.

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Who else’s emails were in the trove?​

The 650,000 emails pulled in the Beth Wilkinson investigation (2019–2021) spanned a decade’s worth of correspondence among:

• Washington Football Team executives (Bruce Allen, Dan Snyder, coaches, scouts, business ops).
• NFL executives (league office, legal department).
• Other team executives across the league.
• Media members with ties to the NFL (journalists, broadcasters, sponsors).
• Corporate partners (Nike, FedEx, etc.).

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Why only Gruden’s went public​

1. Beth Wilkinson’s findings sealed
   
   • Instead of a written report, the NFL asked Wilkinson to deliver her findings orally — meaning no public paper trail.
   • League said it was to protect confidentiality of witnesses. Critics say it was to shield damaging details about owners and executives.
2. Leaks were targeted
   
   • Gruden’s emails were leaked during Monday Night Football season, ensuring maximum publicity.
   • No other executives’ emails — even those containing alleged racist or sexist content — have surfaced.
3. Dan Snyder protection theory
   
   • Washington owner Dan Snyder faced dozens of workplace misconduct accusations.
   • Some believe the limited leak was designed to take down a “non-owner” figure (Gruden) and deflect attention away from Snyder or other influential NFL figures.

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Known tidbits from others’ emails​

• Bruce Allen reportedly engaged in crude humor, mockery of league diversity initiatives, and exchange of suggestive cheerleader photos from team events.
• Some correspondents allegedly included high-ranking NFL executives.
• At least one email chain reportedly contained racist jokes about players and political figures.
• None of these have been officially published — only summarized in investigative journalism.

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Why the rest stayed hidden​

• NFL claims releasing the full email set would violate privacy agreements and discourage future whistleblowers.
• Critics (including Congress members who subpoenaed the league) argue this is a shield for owners — because releasing them could implicate powerful figures across the NFL.

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If you want, I can map the timeline of who had access to the email trove and who could have leaked Gruden’s messages — which narrows down the suspect list to a very small circle. That’s where the politics get really sharp-edged.

 

[rockaction]

Alright — here’s the chain of custody for the Washington Football Team email trove and how it narrows the list of possible leakers of Jon Gruden’s messages.

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1. Collection Phase (2019–2020)​

• Beth Wilkinson and her legal team gather ~650,000 emails from WFT servers, private accounts, and devices.
• Emails include Bruce Allen’s personal account — which is key, because Gruden’s ESPN messages were sent there.
• Possession: At this stage, the data is in Wilkinson’s firm’s hands and in NFL legal/IT custody.

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2. Review Phase (2020–2021)​

• Wilkinson’s team reviews the trove for workplace misconduct evidence.
• NFL lawyers have direct access to the material.
• Selected excerpts are flagged for league executives and possibly certain owners.
• According to multiple reports, some high-ranking league officials saw the Gruden emails months before they were leaked.

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3. Delivery of Findings (July 2021)​

• Wilkinson delivers findings orally to the NFL, per league’s request — no written report.
• Emails themselves remain stored within NFL legal and outside counsel’s archives.
• Only a very small group of people now have direct access:
  
  1. Roger Goodell
  2. NFL general counsel Jeff Pash
  3. Select senior executives in NFL legal
  4. Wilkinson’s core legal team

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4. Leak Window (October 2021)​

• October 8, 2021 — Wall Street Journal publishes the first Gruden email.
• October 11, 2021 — New York Times publishes the broader set.
• Possible leak sources:
  
  1. NFL League Office — The most commonly suspected.
  2. Wilkinson’s team — Less likely; bound by confidentiality agreements.
  3. Someone with direct access to Bruce Allen’s archives — technically possible, but unlikely without NFL cooperation.

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Mark Davis’ suspicion​

• Raiders owner Mark Davis has said the NFL “had these emails for months” and only released them in two strategic waves to force Gruden out.
• He’s implied the league’s timing was deliberate to cause maximum PR pressure.

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Why the suspect list is so short​

Because:

• The emails were not public records — no journalists could FOIA them.
• No one outside the NFL/Washington investigation bubble had legitimate access.
• That bubble contained fewer than 20 people once the review ended.

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If you want, I can diagram this as a flowchart showing exactly how the emails traveled from Gruden’s outbox to the NY Times — it’s almost like a crime board with red string. That would make the politics even clearer.

 

[rockaction]

Alright — here’s the Jon Gruden Leak Map with names, roles, and plausible motives overlaid onto the flow.

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1. Email Creation (2011–2018)​

Jon Gruden — then ESPN “Monday Night Football” analyst.
Bruce Allen — WFT president, old Tampa Bay Buccaneers colleague.

• Tone: personal banter, crude jokes, rants about Goodell, political gripes.
• No motive to leak at this point — just private correspondence.

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2. Capture in WFT Investigation (2019–2020)​

Beth Wilkinson — high-profile DC attorney hired by the NFL to probe WFT workplace misconduct.

• Team: ~20 lawyers/paralegals reviewing ~650,000 emails.
• Motive? Wilkinson unlikely to leak — bound by NDA, plus damaging leaks undermine her credibility in future NFL work.
• However, her team did see the emails — theoretically a leak risk.

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3. Transfer to NFL League Office (mid–2021)​

Key recipients:

• Roger Goodell — NFL Commissioner, target of Gruden’s rants.
• Jeff Pash — NFL general counsel, close ally of Goodell, reportedly had his own questionable emails with Bruce Allen.
• Lisa Friel — NFL’s special counsel for investigations.
• A handful of senior legal staff.

Motive possibilities:

• Protect the league’s image by purging a high-profile critic (Gruden).
• Deflect public focus away from Dan Snyder and WFT ownership.
• Show zero tolerance for racist/homophobic language in leadership roles — but selectively.

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4. Leak Stage 1 — Wall Street Journal (Oct 8, 2021)​

• Likely sourced from NFL legal → WSJ investigative sports desk.
• Motive: soften the ground — cause outrage, but give Gruden/Raiders a chance to respond before the big hit.
• Creates media cycle without yet implicating league or owners.

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5. Leak Stage 2 — New York Times (Oct 11, 2021)​

• Leaked set contains much broader material — Goodell insults, anti-LGBTQ remarks, misogyny, etc.
• Raiders reportedly got these emails the same day as the NYT — suggesting the NFL wanted no time for internal damage control.
• Motive: finish the job — ensure resignation before more WFT revelations.

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6. Motive Layer — Why Only Gruden?​

• Gruden was not an NFL employee when emails were sent — easier target than sitting owners or league execs.
• Mark Davis (Raiders owner) had been a frequent NFL critic, slow to embrace league initiatives — punishing his team also sends a message.
• Dan Snyder protection — full release might have implicated Snyder and potentially other owners; targeted leak sidesteps that.

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Suspect Pool After Review:

1. Roger Goodell — personal target in emails; has final say over what to release.
2. Jeff Pash — powerful in NFL legal, had his own questionable email exchanges with Allen — might prefer a controlled leak over a full dump.
3. Small trusted legal staffers — maybe 2–3 individuals with actual technical access.

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If you put this on the corkboard with the red string:

• At the top: NFL Legal & Goodell box.
• In the middle: Wilkinson Review (unlikely leakers, but saw material).
• At the bottom: two bright red leak arrows to WSJ and NYT, timed three days apart.

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If you want, I can build you a hypothetical leak motive matrix that ranks each suspect by access, motive strength, and risk tolerance — which makes this look even more like an internal power play.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

He was back with the raiders when it came to light.

It’s always been interesting to me that gruden is looked upon as the little guy getting railroaded. Dude had a 100,000,000 contract with the raiders. He was making 6.5M at espn before that when the emails allegedly were sent. Either way, don’t send nudes. Or be racist, especially in writing. Or whatever he did in the emails.

At the end of the day Gruden, Allen, et all were all a buncha POS. How they were caught and or exposed doesn’t change that. I have no sympathy for them.

 

[rockaction]

I’ll stop there unless anybody wants that matrix.