Hawk = BOD (1 Viewer)

[theglorydays]

From everything I've seen on the board LHUCKS is just a giant troll.

Great Bush and Leinhart prediction LHucks.Nothing but a Pac 10 homer...

exactly. Hawk has panned out to be an average NFL linebacker. Has he been worthy of a top 5 pick? Absolutely not. Is he a bust? Absolutely not. I'd still take Hawk over almost half of the top 10 draft choices of that year. Hawk > Young, Davis, Huff, Leinart. Hawk about equal with Bush and Sims. He hasn't panned out as good as Williams, Ferguson or Whitner. 2 of the 3 of which went before him in the draft. Whitner also was considered a real reach at the time. Bottom line is that is wasn't a very good draft for 1st rounders. More busts/mediocre players than usual. Could the Packers have done better with the pick than Hawk? No doubt. But TT clearly sucks anyway. He only pulled 5 starters out of this draft.

You didn't miss out on Whitner, he is just a solid starter much like Hawk is. But like you said, that is much better then some of the guys that went in the first round. I think he was definetly a better pick then Bush and Leinhart...Guys off the street are taking playing time away from Reggie Bush, that should tell you all you need to know about him.You would have to ask Lions fans about Sims, it doesn't seem like he is the real difference make they had hoped for either.

 

[Raider Nation]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.

The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

 

[Balco]

Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.

Oops.

 

[nlgb1]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

 

[Balco]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

 

[ookook]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

True, although in part it is because of our depth at the position. Hawk has been solid, but not exceptional. SO I expect some team that lacks that depth will be willing to pay him more than we will. Then again, maybe he will stay for less. Current LBs:Nick BarnettDesmond BishopDiyral BriggsBrandon ChillarRob FrancoisA.J. HawkBrad JonesClay MatthewsBrady PoppingaErik WaldenMatt WilhelmAlbert YoungFrank ZomboNot exactly sure how this one will sort out.

 

[Ilov80s]

Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.

Reranking the top 10 of 06 now:1A. Mario Williams

1B. D'Brickishaw Ferguson

3. Vernon Davis

4A Michael Huff

4B Donte Whitner

6 AJ Hawk

7 Vince Young

8 Ernie Sims

9. Reggie Bush

10. Matt Leinart

 

[Stinger Ray]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

 

[rodgers65]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

You must not have watched the Packers up until this year. The only reason Hawk had a shot was due to the rash of players on IR. He was benched early in the season. Had the team stayed healthy, I doubt his numbers would've been anywhere near what they were. I'm happy to watch another team over-pay for him in the offseason. Average at best.

 

[Mario Kart]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

You must not have watched the Packers up until this year. The only reason Hawk had a shot was due to the rash of players on IR. He was benched early in the season. Had the team stayed healthy, I doubt his numbers would've been anywhere near what they were. I'm happy to watch another team over-pay for him in the offseason. Average at best.

Please explain this further. Hawk has done what has been expected of him and has done more than what has been expected of him. What else is he supposed to do? He is one of the top tacklers on the team, is around the ball much of the time and stays healthy. Sure, he could force more fumbles but how much coaching is done to prevent fumbles now? Have fumbles gone down in recent years overall... something interesting to know here. Again, what else is he supposed to do?

 

[LHUCKS]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.

Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.

 

[WVU Alum]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

uh...

 

[Cassius]

Honestly, I'd say he might be least likely to bust out of the supposed top10 picks outside of D'Brick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give that honor to Leinart and Bush...about as can't miss as they come.

Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

 

[Cassius]

1 Mario Williams

2 Reggie Bush

3 Vince Young

4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson

5 A. J. Hawk

6 Vernon Davis

7 Michael Huff

8 Donte Whitner

9 Ernie Sims

10 Matt Leinart

Hawk isn't even one of the 5 biggest busts in the top ten alone, nevermind of the entire draft.

 

[cr8f]

1 Mario Williams

2 Reggie Bush

3 Vince Young

4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson

5 A. J. Hawk

6 Vernon Davis

7 Michael Huff

8 Donte Whitner

9 Ernie Sims

10 Matt Leinart

Hawk isn't even one of the 5 biggest busts in the top ten alone, nevermind of the entire draft.

He was solid but not a playmaker until recently; not good but not bust status either. Vernon would have been a better pick, but that's OK.

 

[Balco]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

Not sure what calling defensive signals has to do with performance on the field. Hawk is wildly inconsistent. Instead maintaining his responsibility by taking on a blocker or running hard to the hole, he often dances around. His tackle numbers are fine, but many are made 5-7 yards down the field.He is an average linebacker, IMO. Believe me, I wish he was better.

 

[meatwad1]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues. :whoosh:

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

Yeah...some of you so-called Packer fans are disappointing me here. If you are such a fan of the team, you would know that Packers brass is very happy with the way Hawk played this year, as the previous poster said, he was making all the calls, from what I understand, he has been playing out of position because of Barnett and once Barnett went down, he took his opportunity and ran with it. Anyone who seriously follows the team knows that the person who will not be back next year is Barnett.

 

[sho nuff]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

His season was disappointing? Really?He had a very good year, plus the coaches and players love him and love how he calls the signals for the D on the field.He will have to take a pay cut because they built this contract in a way to put this huge bonus in knowing they likely wouldn't pay it.Did he live up to being a stud for the draft slot?No, but he has been a very solid LB for this team from day one.Not flashy, not spectacular...but he gets the job done.

 

[sho nuff]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

You must not have watched the Packers up until this year. The only reason Hawk had a shot was due to the rash of players on IR. He was benched early in the season. Had the team stayed healthy, I doubt his numbers would've been anywhere near what they were. I'm happy to watch another team over-pay for him in the offseason. Average at best.

He wasn't "benched". He did not play in the nickel sub packages and they were in that during most of the Philly game. They had better coverage LBs for that back then.

 

[sho nuff]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

Head still firmly in the sand.Why take the coaches words...when we have HUCKS

 

[Ilov80s]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

Head still firmly in the sand.Why take the coaches words...when we have HUCKS

The coach has his head in the sand as well.

 

[sho nuff]

Not sure what calling defensive signals has to do with performance on the field.

Hawk is wildly inconsistent. Instead maintaining his responsibility by taking on a blocker or running hard to the hole, he often dances around. His tackle numbers are fine, but many are made 5-7 yards down the field.

He is an average linebacker, IMO. Believe me, I wish he was better.

Calling the signals shows what trust the team has in him...and he does it well and the rest of the D responds to it.I love the 5-7 yards down the field angle on him too...he is a linebacker...thats where most linebackers tackles are going to come.

I posted this earlier in the thread...

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.co...ays-this-season

Take into account the following defensive stats — sacks, interceptions, pass breakups, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries — and Hawk made more “big plays” than perhaps those around the league realize. The 27-year-old former Ohio State star ranked eighth among NFL inside linebackers in making such plays, according to statistics on the NFL’s official website. Hawk’s resume for the 2010 regular season lists 14½ of them. Ten were pass breakups, but he also had three interceptions (tied for most among NFL inside linebackers), a fumble recovery and a half-sack.

 

[Balco]

I am going to agree to disagree with fellow Packer fans. No need to get into an argument at this time after they just won the Super Bowl! And yes, I watched the games.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

How did those can't miss picks of Leinart and Bush work out? Care to talk about them?I can only think of one USC QB to ever get a Super Bowl ring and he did it as a backup.I guess that "can't miss" doesn't apply to USC QBs.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Hawk played so much better next to Bishop but I could never figure out whether that was just coincidence. In the first half of the season Hawk was still making me wonder if the NFL keeps track of "yards after tackle" as a stat.

 

[Eric Stratton]

Hawk "busted" his way to 127 tackles, 3 INTs and a Super Bowl trophy this year.

The HUCKS streak of outstanding predictions continues.

i wouldnt say bust but i would definitely say disappointing. dont be surprised if hawk isnt a packer next year, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay here.

And I 100 % agree with this as well. Definitely didn't perform up to draft position. I would say he is an average linebacker.

You must not have watched the Packers this year not to mention Hawk called defensive signals for the team. He has performed well above average as a LB.

You must not have watched the Packers up until this year. The only reason Hawk had a shot was due to the rash of players on IR. He was benched early in the season. Had the team stayed healthy, I doubt his numbers would've been anywhere near what they were. I'm happy to watch another team over-pay for him in the offseason. Average at best.

Obviously you must not follow the Packers based on that comment.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hawk did not play a single snap from scrimmage in the opening game against the Eagles. Some called it a benching, others said it was situational. Stratton, as usual, adds nothing to the conversation other than taking a shot at another poster.

 

[R1zbear]

LHucks is usually an agent provacateu rso I understand what he's doing and usully he makes valid points so I give him the nenefit of the doubt here

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

LHucks is usually an agent provacateu rso I understand what he's doing and usully he makes valid points so I give him the nenefit of the doubt here

Hello LHUCKS.

 

[Phase of the Game]

Hawk did not play a single snap from scrimmage in the opening game against the Eagles. Some called it a benching, others said it was situational. Stratton, as usual, adds nothing to the conversation other than taking a shot at another poster.

The ones that call it benching are wrong. Benching implies a player did something wrong to land on the bench. In this case Hawk didn't play due to the defensive scheme. That isn't hard to understand.

 

[Phil4]

This guy would start for the other 31 team / End of discussion here....

Of course he did not deliver the ''expectation'' of a top 5 NFL pick but he's a very good LB. Not flashy, but a constant, solid LB.

 

[Sabertooth]

This guy would start for the other 31 team / End of discussion here....Of course he did not deliver the ''expectation'' of a top 5 NFL pick but he's a very good LB. Not flashy, but a constant, solid LB.

He's found a home in the 3-4. He's not a holy terror like Patrick Willis, but he's a very good tackler who has improved in coverage. He's limited somewhat but certainly not a bust like Leinart.

 

[rodgers65]

You must not have watched the Packers up until this year. The only reason Hawk had a shot was due to the rash of players on IR. He was benched early in the season. Had the team stayed healthy, I doubt his numbers would've been anywhere near what they were. I'm happy to watch another team over-pay for him in the offseason. Average at best.

Obviously you must not follow the Packers based on that comment.

Obviously being 'benched' and 'not playing a single snap in a game' are vastly different in your world. Me, not so much. A guy drafted in the top 5 is expected to play and make big plays. AJ Hawk may have played this year, but I don't remember many big plays he brought to the table (I'm sure someone will be quick to google some stats back in my face). Clay Matthews is everything Packer fans hoped Hawk would be.

 

[sho nuff]

Obviously being 'benched' and 'not playing a single snap in a game' are vastly different in your world. Me, not so much. A guy drafted in the top 5 is expected to play and make big plays. AJ Hawk may have played this year, but I don't remember many big plays he brought to the table (I'm sure someone will be quick to google some stats back in my face). Clay Matthews is everything Packer fans hoped Hawk would be.

Posted an article with.those stats above. And you do realize the huge difference between an outside and inside lb don't you?

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Hawk didn't play against Indy last year either in another scheme that worked very well. When you don't anticipate playing at the line of scrimmage too much and are facing a lot of quick route runners it's reasonable to take him off the field.

 

[LHUCKS]

LHucks is usually an agent provacateu rso I understand what he's doing and usully he makes valid points so I give him the nenefit of the doubt here

Hello LHUCKS.

X

 

[sho nuff]

LHucks is usually an agent provacateu rso I understand what he's doing and usully he makes valid points so I give him the nenefit of the doubt here

Hello LHUCKS.

X

Not sure which would be worse.That being you...or knowing the only one to support your point of view has trouble forming a legible sentence.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Green Bay holds on to Hawk over Barnett. Barnett always was kind of mouthy. He's kind of a showboat with his samurai sword thing. He pissed in the Packers cornflakes a little with the team photo flap. Apparently he did not stay in Green Bay to rehab his injury. I'd like to see Hawk back at a reasonable strategy. He fits as an inside backer in the 3-4 and I'm not sure Barnett does fit.

 

[gandalas]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

So how is that Leinart pick working out for you, Hucks?

 

[BassNBrew]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

So how is that Leinart pick working out for you, Hucks?

You guys need to cut Hucks a break. He just got his second (another) bold prediction right. Considering he's made hundreds of predictions that don't deliver, he has the right to be proud of this one.Note: I realize that this bold prediction wasn't entirely accurate, but relative to predictions like Leinart it's an improvement. Much like the kid that lags all his peers and needs help finding the school bus, we need to give him a medal and make him proud of his improvement.

 

[sho nuff]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

So how is that Leinart pick working out for you, Hucks?

You guys need to cut Hucks a break. He just got his second (another) bold prediction right. Considering he's made hundreds of predictions that don't deliver, he has the right to be proud of this one.Note: I realize that this bold prediction wasn't entirely accurate, but relative to predictions like Leinart it's an improvement. Much like the kid that lags all his peers and needs help finding the school bus, we need to give him a medal and make him proud of his improvement.

Which prediction was right on Hawk though? He has not been the bust of that draft at all...and nearly everything Hucks has written about Hawk has been wrong.

 

[sho nuff]

I'd agree that Hawk is very overrated and will likely not play to the level a first round pick should play to.

He is very stiff in the way he moves and that'll really catch up with him at the pro level, especially for an outside backer.  However, I really like his teammate, Bobby Carpenter, as I see him as being the opposite of AJ.  I see Carpenter being the better pro than Hawk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are there any other non Big10 homer, non-Great White Hype sheep in the house?

AJ Hawk 512 total career tackels, 9.5 sacks, 8 INTs, 2 Forced fumbles, and 24 passes defensed (1 team)Bobby Carpenter 136 total career tackles, 3.5 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 forced fumbles, 4 passes defensed (3 different teams)

Sheep? Hilarious.

Whats better is you still insist you were right about Hawk all along.

Other than him not living up to maybe a top 5 pick...he has easily shown he was worthy of a 1st round draft pick (yes, later you went from bust of the draft to worthy of a late 1st...nice way to backstep and cover yourself a bit there).

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

So how is that Leinart pick working out for you, Hucks?

You guys need to cut Hucks a break. He just got his second (another) bold prediction right. Considering he's made hundreds of predictions that don't deliver, he has the right to be proud of this one.Note: I realize that this bold prediction wasn't entirely accurate, but relative to predictions like Leinart it's an improvement. Much like the kid that lags all his peers and needs help finding the school bus, we need to give him a medal and make him proud of his improvement.

"wasn't entirely accurate" is way too generous. His opinion was and is 100% wrong, as is almost always the case with this guy. It is uncanny. In his rookie season, Hawk led the Packers in tackles, won the rookie of the week award twice and was a 1st team all-rookie selection. He has either led the Packers in tackles or finished 2nd in each of his 5 seasons. He seamlessly made a major positional switch after his third season from playing the will in a 4-3 front to playing inside in a 3-4. He has never missed a single game as a pro, and has started all but 3 games since he was drafted. This past season, he led the team in tackles, was defensive co-captain and a pro bowl alternate for the championship Packers and #2 scoring defense in the league. Hawk also had three interceptions, which tied for best in the league for linebackers this season. The point here is completely inarguable. AJ Hawk is a hugely successful draft pick for the Packers.

 

[BassNBrew]

Like I've said all along...great white hype.Another bold prediction by me that delivers....take notes boys.

So how is that Leinart pick working out for you, Hucks?

You guys need to cut Hucks a break. He just got his second (another) bold prediction right. Considering he's made hundreds of predictions that don't deliver, he has the right to be proud of this one.Note: I realize that this bold prediction wasn't entirely accurate, but relative to predictions like Leinart it's an improvement. Much like the kid that lags all his peers and needs help finding the school bus, we need to give him a medal and make him proud of his improvement.

"wasn't entirely accurate" is way too generous. His opinion was and is 100% wrong, as is almost always the case with this guy. It is uncanny. In his rookie season, Hawk led the Packers in tackles, won the rookie of the week award twice and was a 1st team all-rookie selection. He has either led the Packers in tackles or finished 2nd in each of his 5 seasons. He seamlessly made a major positional switch after his third season from playing the will in a 4-3 front to playing inside in a 3-4. He has never missed a single game as a pro, and has started all but 3 games since he was drafted. This past season, he led the team in tackles, was defensive co-captain and a pro bowl alternate for the championship Packers and #2 scoring defense in the league. Hawk also had three interceptions, which tied for best in the league for linebackers this season. The point here is completely inarguable. AJ Hawk is a hugely successful draft pick for the Packers.

Hawk hasn't turned out to be LT or Ray Lewis. Given Hucks' track record around here, this was a knock it out of the park prediction for him.Come on guys, let's just give him a small trophy and tell him that at least he tried hard.

 

[nlgb1]

I'd agree that Hawk is very overrated and will likely not play to the level a first round pick should play to.

He is very stiff in the way he moves and that'll really catch up with him at the pro level, especially for an outside backer.  However, I really like his teammate, Bobby Carpenter, as I see him as being the opposite of AJ.  I see Carpenter being the better pro than Hawk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are there any other non Big10 homer, non-Great White Hype sheep in the house?

AJ Hawk 512 total career tackels, 9.5 sacks, 8 INTs, 2 Forced fumbles, and 24 passes defensed (1 team)Bobby Carpenter 136 total career tackles, 3.5 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 forced fumbles, 4 passes defensed (3 different teams)

Sheep? Hilarious.

Whats better is you still insist you were right about Hawk all along.

Other than him not living up to maybe a top 5 pick...he has easily shown he was worthy of a 1st round draft pick (yes, later you went from bust of the draft to worthy of a late 1st...nice way to backstep and cover yourself a bit there).

cant say i agree that he has been worthy of a 1st. sure he has been decent, but nowhere near as good as i hoped. just isnt that fast to the ball and not great in coverage. sure he is a solid tackler, but you can get that in the early/mid rounds. having said that, i hope we can find a way to keep him around because he seems like a respected part of the squad and a valuable player

 

[Eric Stratton]

Katzenmoyer wasn't a top-5 pick.

Is that really your only argument here?

pretty weak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hawk shouldn't be a top 5 pick, so that argument is moot. Katz went in the first round...and busted. Just like Hawk is about to do.

I don't see anything correct in this statement.

 

[Eric Stratton]

The BOD of the 2006 class would have to Vince Young at #3 or Leinart at #10.

 

[CalBear]

The BOD of the 2006 class would have to Vince Young at #3 or Leinart at #10.

Vince Young is a two-time Pro Bowler. That may or may not be deserved, but it certainly disqualifies him from being the bust of the draft.

 

[nlgb1]

The BOD of the 2006 class would have to Vince Young at #3 or Leinart at #10.

Vince Young is a two-time Pro Bowler. That may or may not be deserved, but it certainly disqualifies him from being the bust of the draft.

even the years that he was a pro bowler he stunk. that was total baloney IMO. he has been junk since he came into the league. only reason he isnt BOD is because Leinart has been silly bad