Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
At that point, I don't think anyone would've believed him. The citizens there were jeering and booing him as soon as he came out (& cheering Joffrey). They already assumed he was guilty.
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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Maybe, but it would have surely meant his own death and Sansa's, that's for sure. I'll bet one of his last thoughts was wishing he HAD done so after that little ####bag called for his head.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Biggamer's only watched 2 episodes, so he hasn't met Tywin yet.Agree that the HBO site is great, but it MAY pack spoilers for him if he's only to episode 3.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Reading is fundamental.
parrot
Footballguy
The OP has only seen the first to episodes. In regards to the first Tywin/Jaime seen, I have to wonder if that shot wasn't added as fill-in to give some exposition on their relationship. When Tyrion leads the hillmen into the Lannister camp and says "Time to meet my father." that almost seemed like it might have been intended as a message to the audience as much as to the other characters. I think the Tyrion/Tywin meeting is how Tywin is introduced in the book.
The Gator
Footballguy
I thought the crowd gasped or moaned when Stark said Jof was the rightful king? I know they were booing Stark, but I thought they also didn't take kindly to Jof. I seem to recall a shout of Sansa reacting as if she was shocked they would react that way.
Barry
Footballguy
The Game of thrones version I got from the library was hardcover. That was about 8 years ago. Storm was also hardcover, maybe it's a library thing.
Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
####### Sansa... something else I noticed: the Baratheon house sigil was the stag, but when Joffrey was standing up in front of the crowd, he was wearing a coat that had a lion on it, obviously representing the Lannisters. Ned should have just gone for it. dammit, Ned!
madshot31
Footballguy
I have the first 4 in hardcover and when A Feast For Crows came out, they only sold the hardcover version. I didn't get into the series until a few months ago but I bought AFfC for my brother when it launched.
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JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
all the folks ordering the books, have you tried brick and mortar book stores? Barnes, ect.?
TeamDingo
Footballguy
Joffrey has split his sigil. Stag on one side lion on the other. His other sleeve has a stag on it.http://gameofthrones.net/images/House_Baratheon/Joffrey_Baratheon.jpg
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Rick James
Footballguy
I got into the series last year, and purchased all 4 books at Borders-- the small paperback, $8I hope Dance gets released in small paperback form if for no other reason than to match my other books
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Socrates11
Footballguy
He was more or less told by Varys that his fake "confession" would save Sansa's life. Thinking that he'd have to take the Black was almost beside the point, as I'm sure he would have done it anyway even knowing he was going to die.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
It would have been so cool for Ned to take the Black, defend the wall with Jon, be the badass to save the realm from the White Walkers and have his honor restored.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Ned Stark is a badass:
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Thank you. Some of these readers seem to think they are better than those who haven't read the book, almost as if we shouldn't be allowed to watch the show without first reading the book.Ridiculous and narcissistic.I'm a book reader here, but I totally agree and understand the complaints here. Every time I see someone give a hint about what's to come, I cringe. "Readers" need to be respectful and should acknowledge that offering that teeny little hint will diminish the overall effect that the unveiling of plotlines will have on the non-readers. Yes, you read the book. Congratulations. Yes, you know what's coming. Congratulations. Now keep it to yourself, or put it in spoiler tags so you don't inadvertantly ruin someone's viewing entertainment because you gave them confirmation of something they were speculating about.
I think one guy said that. Relax.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Maybe. I think they were released in England in hardcover, but the first releases in the U.S. were in softback. With the success they had, it's very possible they later released hardcover editions in the U.S. I first read GOT 10+ years ago, and distinctly remember picking up the second or third book on its release date...in paperback.ETA: Couldn't find info to confirm. Might be that my memory is faulty, or maybe just that a paperback edition was released on the same date? Either way, I was able to get the book in paperback on it's release date.'Barry said:
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madshot31
Footballguy
Looks like they were paperback first for a bit. The first three hardcovers I have were published 1-2 months after the original release date and the forth is the same month.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
I agree people should be a bit more careful, but this thread was started by the bookies to discuss the upcoming show, and as such I think it's been a great thread and most people have been good about using spoiler tags as appropriate.
I am really hoping this stays going through the entire series, but if it doesn't, well, it's not like some of the other shows (and not to be a book snob) but you can grab the books to finish the story off (assuming Martin gets his writing butt in gear and finishes it off.)
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
As much as I like a good battle scene, I have to give props to how they handled this under the circumstances. It was funny when he got hit in the face by the club and held the drama of Jamie's capture.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
He's right though. Bookreaders are clearly better than those who haven't read the book, and I agree that no one should be allowed to watch the show without first reading the book.Thank you. Some of these readers seem to think they are better than those who haven't read the book, almost as if we shouldn't be allowed to watch the show without first reading the book.Ridiculous and narcissistic.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think we all get it now Scooby as you've made clear in this thread and the book thread that this work is extremely lowbrow by your standards and you've had the entire plot arc mapped out after the first few chapters. What surprises me is that you and your wife are home watching HBO on Sunday nights. Isn't there a Thomas Moore or Beckett lecture series you could be attending somewhere?'scoobygang said:
scoobygang
Footballguy
My username is a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference. I'm all about good pulp fiction.Hey, I've read all 3500 pages or whatever of the books. Obviously, I think they have virtues. Shocking surprises, however, aren't among them, IMO. It is true that I don't think that either the books or the show are the "OMG best thing evah!". I'd like to think that perspective has as much value as those who are making knee-jerk claims that this is somehow the best show on television. In any case, I'm not calling anyone's child stupid or their wife ugly, so I think we'll have to just muddle through.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think Neds death was pretty well telegraphed, beginning in the first episode with the dead stag and direwolf scene, but I'm not at all astounded that most adult consumers of modern fiction, especially televised, would be surprised to see a lead character killed before the end of the first season.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
With each turn of the page of a Sansa chapter I loathe her that much more.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Hmm.....I caught grief over saying that there would be a bigger surprise than Ned's death at the end of season 2. If THAT's an unacceptable spoiler, perhaps those who think so really shouldn't even be in this thread, or ANY GRM thread, ever. That's just a bit over the top ridiculously sensitive.
shader
Footballguy
The show is in a tough spot with regards to the battle scenes. Two huge battles happened, and the show skipped right over them.
I get that they don't want to make what are supposed to be huge battles look cheesy, due to financial concerns......
But you'd think there is something they could have done.
I get that they don't want to make what are supposed to be huge battles look cheesy, due to financial concerns......
But you'd think there is something they could have done.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
I'll eventually read about the battles. I think if they tried to crowbar them into the story they'd feel rushed.
I thought the way they handled them was perfect given the circumstances.
I thought the way they handled them was perfect given the circumstances.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
rewatching with JerseyToughGal and have few questions:
The Butchers Boy - At the end of Episode 2, The Hound was bringing him back to the Inn bloodied on the back of a horse. I assumed he'd killed him ("he ran"). But, we saw him at the end of the last episode, when Araya(sp) was escaping, right?
Lysa Arryn (Lady Stark's Sister) and the Breast Feeding Son - She finds out her husband, the former Hand, was murdered and communicates it to Lady Stark. When we first meet her, her 8 year old son is suckling from teat. Did she lose her mind and is she breastfeeding him out of fear he too will be poisoned? Is there any non-spoiler back story to this in the Book?
The Butchers Boy - At the end of Episode 2, The Hound was bringing him back to the Inn bloodied on the back of a horse. I assumed he'd killed him ("he ran"). But, we saw him at the end of the last episode, when Araya(sp) was escaping, right?
Lysa Arryn (Lady Stark's Sister) and the Breast Feeding Son - She finds out her husband, the former Hand, was murdered and communicates it to Lady Stark. When we first meet her, her 8 year old son is suckling from teat. Did she lose her mind and is she breastfeeding him out of fear he too will be poisoned? Is there any non-spoiler back story to this in the Book?
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Actually, it's almost pretty true to the book. There is a little bit that Martin describes about the battles, but for the most part, the book just gets to the results at the end. Sure, there was some left out, but not a lot. I thought working in the Khal Drogo battle, which was not in the book (just the result) was much better.
That's a stable boy that Arya needles. Different kid.The breastfeeding isn't explained, the book just has the line from Catelyn's uncle that she will find her sister much different than she remembered, meaning she was already going nuts.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Not really a spoiler, but I forget if they mention this in the show or not
they have mentioned a few times that Lysa took her son from Kings Landing because he was to be a ward of Tywin Lannister, however it discovered that he actially was to go to Stannis Baratheon instead. Is there something more to this, or just showing Lysa's insane overprotectiveness?
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Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
1. Wasn't the same person. The butcher's boy from the fight with Joffrey was most assuredly killed by The Hound.2. I don't think it is specifically fear of posioning as much as it is a manifestation of how developmentally stunted the boy Robert is and how Lysa Arryn is over protective of him in general.
In fairness, Martin doesn't spend a ton of time describing battles generally (throughout the series) either. For example, the reader sometimes won't pick up details on the strategies used for many chapters after the battles occurred. I would say the books are very different from, say, the Lord of the Rings books in that regard.
Socrates11
Footballguy
Just finishing up book 2, ACOK, and I can't recall any battle that has been described in detail, or much described at all. They're usually spoken about after the fact to say who won/who lost and if anything significant happened. So in this regard the show is pretty faithful to the books.
scoobygang
Footballguy
This seems to be a popular attitude and it's another one where I'm in a distinct minority, I guess. Out of all the truly loathsome characters presented in the series, I find it hard to muster much emnitiy for a 13 year old girl who is clearly out of her depth. People seem to hate Sansa more than Jamie right now, and he essentially tossed an eight year old boy out a window. Maybe that's a tribute to how well they've managed to humanize Jamie.
The Gator
Footballguy
YesShe's much more of a cvnt in the books
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
The Imp is by far my favorite character so far.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
She wants to be queen so bad it blinds her. Her reasoning isn't traditional ambition, there's a lot of naivety, but it's ambition nonetheless. Plus
she tipped off the queen that Ned was sending them away, after Ned told her to keep their plans secret, because she didn't want to be away from Joffrey "he loves me" blah blah blah This forced the queen into action resulting in the capture and execution of her own father.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't think so. The Lannisters (save the Imp) are all cookie cutter bad guys, despicable from the outset, you don't have to spend much time working up hate for them, it's given. With Sansa it's much more of a betrayal thing playing out as you go along, she seemingly starts out a good guy, or at least playing for the good team, but gets progressively bad guy over the course of the story (so far anyway).Was the symbolism with the pigeons in this last episode from the book or is that a cinematic license thing?
Drifter
Footballguy
I was wondering if that might be the perspective from Ned's severed head (band name)
renesauz
IBL Representative
She's a spoiled little brat. Far from loveable, but hardly loathsome.
By the middle of the second book, all you can feel for her is sorry. Spoiled or not, her world is turned upside down and made miserable, and she's never evil.
Also, the series portrays plenty of children Sansa's age who handle difficult situations with more grace & maturity than Sansa.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The pigeon thing goes back to Arya, acting out of desperation due to hunger, capturing the pigeon and twisting its head off with the thought that she'd trade it to the baker for food. Turns out the sacrifice of the pigeon was wasted as the baker isn't interested. She remains hungry.Ned's the pigeon who gets his head taken off - will his (self) sacrifice (of not only his life but also his honor - a refutation of Snow's earlier assertion that his dad would do the right thing in the face of such an important, difficult dilemma) also be wasted? Will his child ultimately not be saved?In both cases the other pigeons fly away, leaving their dead companion behind.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
BUT I LOVE HIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Fiddles
Footballguy
I guess some people think having an ongoing affair with and fathering your sister's children while being responsible for protecting her husband is cookie cutter.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I guess some people think having an ongoing affair with and fathering your sister's children while being responsible for protecting her husband is cookie cutter.
Apart from having a neon sign pointing at them flashing "bad guys" for the 1st half an hour of the show, I don't think you can telegraph bad guyness any more blatantly than divulging they're responsible for assassinating the king and having the siblings screwing each other on screen in the first act. Maybe blatantly obvious would have been a more apt description than cookie cutter, but the idea's the same. Painfully obvious exposition of severe moral decrepitude right off the bat isn't exactly leaving the viewer a whole lot of room for interpretation of whether those characters are bad guys. I'm hoping the obviousness of this is just a misdirection and these characters end up having some more depth to them with a few twists down the road - but so far that really doesn't seem to be the style. I.e. so far they've been non-dimensional, cookie cutter (or mustache twisting to use Scoobygang's term) bad guys from the start.
rolyaTy
You're Heinous
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.
Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.
Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.
Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.
Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.
Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.
Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
