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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

People seem to hate Sansa more than Jamie right now, and he essentially tossed an eight year old boy out a window. Maybe that's a tribute to how well they've managed to humanize Jamie.
I don't think so. The Lannisters (save the Imp) are all cookie cutter bad guys, despicable from the outset, you don't have to spend much time working up hate for them, it's given. With Sansa it's much more of a betrayal thing playing out as you go along, she seemingly starts out a good guy, or at least playing for the good team, but gets progressively bad guy over the course of the story (so far anyway).Was the symbolism with the pigeons in this last episode from the book or is that a cinematic license thing?
:no:
I guess some people think having an ongoing affair with and fathering your sister's children while being responsible for protecting her husband is cookie cutter.
:lmao: Apart from having a neon sign pointing at them flashing "bad guys" for the 1st half an hour of the show, I don't think you can telegraph bad guyness any more blatantly than divulging they're responsible for assassinating the king and having the siblings screwing each other on screen in the first act. Maybe blatantly obvious would have been a more apt description than cookie cutter, but the idea's the same. Painfully obvious exposition of severe moral decrepitude right off the bat isn't exactly leaving the viewer a whole lot of room for interpretation of whether those characters are bad guys. I'm hoping the obviousness of this is just a misdirection and these characters end up having some more depth to them with a few twists down the road - but so far that really doesn't seem to be the style. I.e. so far they've been non-dimensional, cookie cutter (or mustache twisting to use Scoobygang's term) bad guys from the start.
They're the "bad guys", to be sure. What's questionable here is the cookie-cutter adjective.
 
Another question, that, if answerable, might need a spoiler tag:

Did Cersei or Jamie murder/poison Robert's only true heir (the one described by Cersei when she goes to "console" Lady Stark). The description of the "fever" death seemed similar to the death of John Arryn.

 
Another question, that, if answerable, might need a spoiler tag:Did Cersei or Jamie murder/poison Robert's only true heir (the one described by Cersei when she goes to "console" Lady Stark). The description of the "fever" death seemed similar to the death of John Arryn.
in the book I don't think they had that conversation, but cersei tells Ned that Robert knocked her up once and she had an abortion basically.
 
I am reading the first book and plan on stopping before I pass the show. I have no idea how I am going to make it when the season ends. Should I read #2 or not?? I probably will read the rest.

 
I am reading the first book and plan on stopping before I pass the show. I have no idea how I am going to make it when the season ends. Should I read #2 or not?? I probably will read the rest.
You are always going to be spoiled one way or the other. The details of the book would probably incline me to reading before viewing if given the choice.
 
Another question, that, if answerable, might need a spoiler tag:Did Cersei or Jamie murder/poison Robert's only true heir (the one described by Cersei when she goes to "console" Lady Stark). The description of the "fever" death seemed similar to the death of John Arryn.
in the book I don't think they had that conversation, but cersei tells Ned that Robert knocked her up once and she had an abortion basically.
damnit
 
didn't read it. literally had my hand up blocking it in the reply box. Was hoping it wasn't going to be a spoiler answer.

my wife is going to be even more into this now. It was her idea/thought.

 
didn't read it. literally had my hand up blocking it in the reply box. Was hoping it wasn't going to be a spoiler answer. my wife is going to be even more into this now. It was her idea/thought.
It not really a spoiler. I've only read the book up to the current HBO episode. I'm just cautious.
thanks. Just read it.
That's a pretty big divergence, between the movie and book, but I guess it goes to the same end.
 
The book let's you know Ned was beheaded with his own family sword, "Ice". Joffrey is even crueler than portrayed.
Joffrey is even crueler than portrayed.

 
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Another question, that, if answerable, might need a spoiler tag:Did Cersei or Jamie murder/poison Robert's only true heir (the one described by Cersei when she goes to "console" Lady Stark). The description of the "fever" death seemed similar to the death of John Arryn.
In the books Cersei only has 3 children. Robert has 16. The TV show is different in many ways.
 
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People seem to hate Sansa more than Jamie right now, and he essentially tossed an eight year old boy out a window. Maybe that's a tribute to how well they've managed to humanize Jamie.
I don't think so. The Lannisters (save the Imp) are all cookie cutter bad guys, despicable from the outset, you don't have to spend much time working up hate for them, it's given. With Sansa it's much more of a betrayal thing playing out as you go along, she seemingly starts out a good guy, or at least playing for the good team, but gets progressively bad guy over the course of the story (so far anyway).Was the symbolism with the pigeons in this last episode from the book or is that a cinematic license thing?
:no:
I guess some people think having an ongoing affair with and fathering your sister's children while being responsible for protecting her husband is cookie cutter.
:lmao: Apart from having a neon sign pointing at them flashing "bad guys" for the 1st half an hour of the show, I don't think you can telegraph bad guyness any more blatantly than divulging they're responsible for assassinating the king and having the siblings screwing each other on screen in the first act. Maybe blatantly obvious would have been a more apt description than cookie cutter, but the idea's the same. Painfully obvious exposition of severe moral decrepitude right off the bat isn't exactly leaving the viewer a whole lot of room for interpretation of whether those characters are bad guys. I'm hoping the obviousness of this is just a misdirection and these characters end up having some more depth to them with a few twists down the road - but so far that really doesn't seem to be the style. I.e. so far they've been non-dimensional, cookie cutter (or mustache twisting to use Scoobygang's term) bad guys from the start.
ALL the characters gain depth throughout the series of books. Nothing "cookie cutter" about any of them.
 
People seem to hate Sansa more than Jamie right now, and he essentially tossed an eight year old boy out a window. Maybe that's a tribute to how well they've managed to humanize Jamie.
I don't think so. The Lannisters (save the Imp) are all cookie cutter bad guys, despicable from the outset, you don't have to spend much time working up hate for them, it's given. With Sansa it's much more of a betrayal thing playing out as you go along, she seemingly starts out a good guy, or at least playing for the good team, but gets progressively bad guy over the course of the story (so far anyway).Was the symbolism with the pigeons in this last episode from the book or is that a cinematic license thing?
:no:
I guess some people think having an ongoing affair with and fathering your sister's children while being responsible for protecting her husband is cookie cutter.
:lmao: Apart from having a neon sign pointing at them flashing "bad guys" for the 1st half an hour of the show, I don't think you can telegraph bad guyness any more blatantly than divulging they're responsible for assassinating the king and having the siblings screwing each other on screen in the first act. Maybe blatantly obvious would have been a more apt description than cookie cutter, but the idea's the same. Painfully obvious exposition of severe moral decrepitude right off the bat isn't exactly leaving the viewer a whole lot of room for interpretation of whether those characters are bad guys. I'm hoping the obviousness of this is just a misdirection and these characters end up having some more depth to them with a few twists down the road - but so far that really doesn't seem to be the style. I.e. so far they've been non-dimensional, cookie cutter (or mustache twisting to use Scoobygang's term) bad guys from the start.
ALL the characters gain depth throughout the series of books. Nothing "cookie cutter" about any of them.
this
 
At this point, Jaime might seem to be a straight-forward "bad guy" - but I think just about every character has shades of grey... If I recall, even he has 'good' moments.

 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
She definitely learns to become more practical, but at this point she is COMPLETELY naive. Her little girl dream of being a princess clouds her judgement, and her selfishness has brought more harm to her family than any other character in the show. Her actions have killed two people already. Micah, because she lied about Joffrey and her father because she didn't think he was being fair by taking away her dream of being queen. She just learned her second lesson on her own naivety, but this one hits home a lot more than the killing of Lady.
 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
She definitely learns to become more practical, but at this point she is COMPLETELY naive. Her little girl dream of being a princess clouds her judgement, and her selfishness has brought more harm to her family than any other character in the show. Her actions have killed two people already. Micah, because she lied about Joffrey and her father because she didn't think he was being fair by taking away her dream of being queen. She just learned her second lesson on her own naivety, but this one hits home a lot more than the killing of Lady.
But its not a "little girl dream" - she is very much engaged to the heir to the throne and she seems to be the only member of the Stark family who plays the game correctly. Is it selfish or smart to support Joffrey rather than a butcher's boy (as Ned probably would have done)? Cat Stark falsely imprisons and nearly executes Tyrion based on essentially zero credible evidence, which starts the ball rolling toward an inevitably bad ending. Meanwhile, Ned commits one incredible blunder after another. He takes the fall for his wife's stupidity, causing the death of several of his own guards and basically sealing his own fate. He confronts and antagonizes his one friend, who happens to be the king, one of several people he rejected who could have saved him had he an ounce of common sense. He walks around Kings Landing openly following in the exact footsteps of the murdered Jon Arryn. He ignores multiple, bright, flashing red flags, resulting in Robert's death as well as his own. The scene where he confronts Cersei, spilling his secrets and advising her to flee the city while taking no steps to protect himself is ridiculously unbelievable, to the point of detracting from the story because it is so unbelievable that someone like Ned Stark could be so stupid. The he seals the deal by rejecting Renly and trusting Baelish. Ned and Cat are responsible (together with Rob, who didn't fall far from the tree) for the destruction of an entire household.
 
WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW OH MY LORD WOW WOW FFFFFFFF WTF HOLY MOTHA FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!

Just got up to date, oh my god was my heart beating quickly. I even yelled "no way no way" as the slaughter was about to happen. I Hadn't read the book and avoided all spoilers so I had little clue of what was in store.

Might be the grittiest 3 minutes of television I have ever seen. Sort of like the Braveheart scene without the freedom yell

For those who havent watched The Shield and might some day want to I will put this in spoiler

ned's final act was so much resembling Vic Mackey to me it was scary. First off they both went completely out of their character and chose family over honor and "brotherhood". The Ned a week before his capture would have never had cowered to the wrong heir and confessed no matter what was at stake. Once they threatened him with his daughters life he caved in and did his best to save them no matter how much dishonor he was causing himself, yet just like Mackey his whole saving the family plan failed and failed hard. I think Ned got off easier then Vic as Vic had to live with knowing he turned on his BFF's and his children were taken from him.
 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.

Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.

Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.

Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
What about Sansa's decision to rely on a drunken jester to help her escape King's Landing? How fortunate is she to survive that? And the decision to tell Cersei of Ned's intent to take his girls and leave King's Landing? How smart was that? Sansa is completely naive as to who the Lannisters really are, right up until Ned's head hits the floor. And even after that she is able to survive more because she is of use to them, and coveted by Littlefinger, rather than because she is particularly smart or resourceful.
 
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I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
She definitely learns to become more practical, but at this point she is COMPLETELY naive. Her little girl dream of being a princess clouds her judgement, and her selfishness has brought more harm to her family than any other character in the show. Her actions have killed two people already. Micah, because she lied about Joffrey and her father because she didn't think he was being fair by taking away her dream of being queen. She just learned her second lesson on her own naivety, but this one hits home a lot more than the killing of Lady.
But its not a "little girl dream" - she is very much engaged to the heir to the throne and she seems to be the only member of the Stark family who plays the game correctly. Is it selfish or smart to support Joffrey rather than a butcher's boy (as Ned probably would have done)? Cat Stark falsely imprisons and nearly executes Tyrion based on essentially zero credible evidence, which starts the ball rolling toward an inevitably bad ending. Meanwhile, Ned commits one incredible blunder after another. He takes the fall for his wife's stupidity, causing the death of several of his own guards and basically sealing his own fate. He confronts and antagonizes his one friend, who happens to be the king, one of several people he rejected who could have saved him had he an ounce of common sense. He walks around Kings Landing openly following in the exact footsteps of the murdered Jon Arryn. He ignores multiple, bright, flashing red flags, resulting in Robert's death as well as his own. The scene where he confronts Cersei, spilling his secrets and advising her to flee the city while taking no steps to protect himself is ridiculously unbelievable, to the point of detracting from the story because it is so unbelievable that someone like Ned Stark could be so stupid. The he seals the deal by rejecting Renly and trusting Baelish. Ned and Cat are responsible (together with Rob, who didn't fall far from the tree) for the destruction of an entire household.
Interesting take. Really, I think that Ned was very much a device used by Martin to separate his brand of fantasy from the stereotypical fantasy hero, filled with honor who perseveres by sticking to his morals and always doing the right thing. Right from the start he lays out that's not how things work in his world.
 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.

Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.

Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.

Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
She definitely learns to become more practical, but at this point she is COMPLETELY naive. Her little girl dream of being a princess clouds her judgement, and her selfishness has brought more harm to her family than any other character in the show. Her actions have killed two people already. Micah, because she lied about Joffrey and her father because she didn't think he was being fair by taking away her dream of being queen. She just learned her second lesson on her own naivety, but this one hits home a lot more than the killing of Lady.
But its not a "little girl dream" - she is very much engaged to the heir to the throne and she seems to be the only member of the Stark family who plays the game correctly. Is it selfish or smart to support Joffrey rather than a butcher's boy (as Ned probably would have done)? Cat Stark falsely imprisons and nearly executes Tyrion based on essentially zero credible evidence, which starts the ball rolling toward an inevitably bad ending. Meanwhile, Ned commits one incredible blunder after another. He takes the fall for his wife's stupidity, causing the death of several of his own guards and basically sealing his own fate. He confronts and antagonizes his one friend, who happens to be the king, one of several people he rejected who could have saved him had he an ounce of common sense. He walks around Kings Landing openly following in the exact footsteps of the murdered Jon Arryn. He ignores multiple, bright, flashing red flags, resulting in Robert's death as well as his own. The scene where he confronts Cersei, spilling his secrets and advising her to flee the city while taking no steps to protect himself is ridiculously unbelievable, to the point of detracting from the story because it is so unbelievable that someone like Ned Stark could be so stupid. The he seals the deal by rejecting Renly and trusting Baelish. Ned and Cat are responsible (together with Rob, who didn't fall far from the tree) for the destruction of an entire household.
:shrug: We're looking at the same events, but under different lights.
What you call practicality, others would call selfishness or naiveté. Looking at her reasoning, rather than just the results, she wasn't playing the game. She was trying to live out her idealized fantasy, as Encaitar suggested, and it is made plainly evident in her chapters. She scarcely even knew there was a game. The other Starks are a different argument entirely, and I can tell that you don't think much of their street smarts, but that doesn't mean Sansa is especially bright. She certainly didn't realize that it was a bad move to favor Cersei and imagine that she'd be a queen like her. I'd say "naive" is absolutely the right word.
ETA: That whole conversation could've been carried out without spoiler tags, you fiends.

 
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I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
She definitely learns to become more practical, but at this point she is COMPLETELY naive. Her little girl dream of being a princess clouds her judgement, and her selfishness has brought more harm to her family than any other character in the show. Her actions have killed two people already. Micah, because she lied about Joffrey and her father because she didn't think he was being fair by taking away her dream of being queen. She just learned her second lesson on her own naivety, but this one hits home a lot more than the killing of Lady.
But its not a "little girl dream" - she is very much engaged to the heir to the throne and she seems to be the only member of the Stark family who plays the game correctly. Is it selfish or smart to support Joffrey rather than a butcher's boy (as Ned probably would have done)? Cat Stark falsely imprisons and nearly executes Tyrion based on essentially zero credible evidence, which starts the ball rolling toward an inevitably bad ending. Meanwhile, Ned commits one incredible blunder after another. He takes the fall for his wife's stupidity, causing the death of several of his own guards and basically sealing his own fate. He confronts and antagonizes his one friend, who happens to be the king, one of several people he rejected who could have saved him had he an ounce of common sense. He walks around Kings Landing openly following in the exact footsteps of the murdered Jon Arryn. He ignores multiple, bright, flashing red flags, resulting in Robert's death as well as his own. The scene where he confronts Cersei, spilling his secrets and advising her to flee the city while taking no steps to protect himself is ridiculously unbelievable, to the point of detracting from the story because it is so unbelievable that someone like Ned Stark could be so stupid. The he seals the deal by rejecting Renly and trusting Baelish. Ned and Cat are responsible (together with Rob, who didn't fall far from the tree) for the destruction of an entire household.
Interesting take. Really, I think that Ned was very much a device used by Martin to separate his brand of fantasy from the stereotypical fantasy hero, filled with honor who perseveres by sticking to his morals and always doing the right thing. Right from the start he lays out that's not how things work in his world.Absolutely.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?

also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about.

spoiler tag if you feel its needed.

 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?

also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about.

spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
I think no way the Imp did it. I figure, the way they are developing his character, that he is going to flip on his family.There's been scenes where he's connected with Snow, then with crippled Bran. Those have gotta be there for a reason.

 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it.
Pretty sure it wasn't the Imp, someone clumsily set him up to take the fall - probably one of his siblings, maybe littlefinger. The Imp isn't stupid, he wouldn't send an assassin off with such an easily identifiable weapon that people know he owns (as he stated when captured). Also he seemed to have some actual empathy for the kid since he's now disabled too.The father seems pretty ruthless. I'm sure the prospect of a 100% Lannister on the throne far outweighs any imagined dishonor resulting from the kid being the product of an incestuous relationship. Remember his whole schpeil to Jamie about not caring what others think?
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
It would seem Cersei and Jaime sent the assasin but why they used Tyrion's dagger casts some doubt on that presumption.Yes, the queen poisoned the Hand for the same reason as the meaning of Robert's *******. They both discovered that by studying the lineage book that all the Baratheon's are born with dark hair. Even Robert's ******* who was born to the near-albino whore had dark hair. "The blood is strong" means that there is no way that Joffrey was Robert's son.Tyrion isn't stupid. I'm sure he knows. Tywin maybe or maybe not. The family is not about honor - the family is about protecting family no matter what and always paying their debts, whether that is monetary or vengeful.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?

also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about.

spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
The significance was that when viewed over history, the entire line of Baratheon children have black hair. Joffrey has blonde. It was used to conclude that Joffrey is not the king's true son.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?

also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about.

spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
I think no way the Imp did it. I figure, the way they are developing his character, that he is going to flip on his family.There's been scenes where he's connected with Snow, then with crippled Bran. Those have gotta be there for a reason.
He likes bastards (all dwarves are bastards in their fathers' eyes) and broken things. It really is as simple as that and is used to show that Tyrion is maybe not as ruthless and heartless as the other Lannisters.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
The only thing we know for sure at this point in the TV series is why Ned went to see the blacksmith and what that told him (that Baratheon kids all have black hair & Joffrey doesn't, which is why Ned knew Joff wasn't Robert's kid). The rest of your questions haven't been answered yet (though there is some evidence already for some of them; just not enough yet to know anything conclusively).
 
I've only read the first book up to this past episode, but I will put this in a spoiler anyway regarding Tyrion and Bran.

When Tyrion is thinking of the whole situation he basically calls the use of such a dagger an uncharacteristically careless move if done by Jaime or Cersei. It definitely was not the Imp, and Tyrion implies IMO that is somebody whom is not a Lannister that would like to make these two houses fight that set it up. My guess was Littelfinger then, and I think that makes the most sense now as well, but it's just a guess.
 
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so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
It would seem Cersei and Jaime sent the assasin but why they used Tyrion's dagger casts some doubt on that presumption.Yes, the queen poisoned the Hand for the same reason as the meaning of Robert's *******. They both discovered that by studying the lineage book that all the Baratheon's are born with dark hair. Even Robert's ******* who was born to the near-albino whore had dark hair. "The blood is strong" means that there is no way that Joffrey was Robert's son.Tyrion isn't stupid. I'm sure he knows. Tywin maybe or maybe not. The family is not about honor - the family is about protecting family no matter what and always paying their debts, whether that is monetary or vengeful.
Your second point isn't correct dealing with Hand's poisoning. I won't say why though, it's either factually incorrect, information we don't know yet at this point in the series, or both.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it.
Pretty sure it wasn't the Imp, someone clumsily set him up to take the fall - probably one of his siblings, maybe littlefinger. The Imp isn't stupid, he wouldn't send an assassin off with such an easily identifiable weapon that people know he owns (as he stated when captured). Also he seemed to have some actual empathy for the kid since he's now disabled too.The father seems pretty ruthless. I'm sure the prospect of a 100% Lannister on the throne far outweighs any imagined dishonor resulting from the kid being the product of an incestuous relationship. Remember his whole schpeil to Jamie about not caring what others think?
your right, I thought he was all about legacy and Lannister name, but he probably banged the queen too for all i know!
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
It would seem Cersei and Jaime sent the assasin but why they used Tyrion's dagger casts some doubt on that presumption.Yes, the queen poisoned the Hand for the same reason as the meaning of Robert's *******. They both discovered that by studying the lineage book that all the Baratheon's are born with dark hair. Even Robert's ******* who was born to the near-albino whore had dark hair. "The blood is strong" means that there is no way that Joffrey was Robert's son.Tyrion isn't stupid. I'm sure he knows. Tywin maybe or maybe not. The family is not about honor - the family is about protecting family no matter what and always paying their debts, whether that is monetary or vengeful.
Yeah I should have realized the imp was 100% innocent. No way he would be that stupid, but you would think with a fire being started and the kid being unconscious that they thought the assassin would murder the boy 100% so they might not have cared enough to use a different knife.If the queen is so hell bent on removing any possible objectors to Joffreys crown, why didnt she have the black haired Helmet boy whacked?he was just a poor boy now easy to get out of the way and clear up any future problems for her
 
If the queen is so hell bent on removing any possible objectors to Joffreys crown, why didnt she have the black haired Helmet boy whacked?he was just a poor boy now easy to get out of the way and clear up any future problems for her
Assuming she even knows about him, it seems like bastards are held in pretty low esteem in this world. I doubt anyone would let him be king. But I'm hoping he does play a larger part in the story somehow - Ned did tell him to come see him when he's ready to wield a sword instead of making them. Then again, Ned's dead baby, Ned's dead.
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
It would seem Cersei and Jaime sent the assasin but why they used Tyrion's dagger casts some doubt on that presumption.Yes, the queen poisoned the Hand for the same reason as the meaning of Robert's *******. They both discovered that by studying the lineage book that all the Baratheon's are born with dark hair. Even Robert's ******* who was born to the near-albino whore had dark hair. "The blood is strong" means that there is no way that Joffrey was Robert's son.Tyrion isn't stupid. I'm sure he knows. Tywin maybe or maybe not. The family is not about honor - the family is about protecting family no matter what and always paying their debts, whether that is monetary or vengeful.
Yeah I should have realized the imp was 100% innocent. No way he would be that stupid, but you would think with a fire being started and the kid being unconscious that they thought the assassin would murder the boy 100% so they might not have cared enough to use a different knife.If the queen is so hell bent on removing any possible objectors to Joffreys crown, why didnt she have the black haired Helmet boy whacked?he was just a poor boy now easy to get out of the way and clear up any future problems for her
The ******* blacksmithi s only one of many of Robert's bastards. Bastards are not considered contenders to the throne normally
 
I put my impression of the characters in spoiler tags, although it's not really giving anything away if you're up to date on the HBO series.

Sansa - The book does a better job of giving some background as to why she is how she is, but basically she has the grace and good looks of her mother, she's good at "girly" things like needlework, and she has these typical girl fantasies about marrying a prince, being a princess, having lots of kids, and being a queen, living in a castle, etc. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just like so many young girls are, full of ridiculous dreams that they want so bad they can taste it, except she's being given an opportunity to fulfill those dreams, and she's starting to find out, as others are finding out, that idealism, and naivete are terrible flaws. Where we are in the series with Sansa is the crumbling of her fairy-tale dreamlike expectations of how the world is supposed to be, and in its place, we see a ruthless, backstabbing, power-centric world where "When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die." All that to say, it's hard for me to think her too bad of a person at this point in the story because so many girls are like her at that age, and it's as if the author just plucked on up and put them in this situation, and now their idealism is confronted by reality.

Arya - The opposite of Sansa, somewhat of a cynical girl where we are. She rejects the idealism of sansa's world, but that's partly due to the fact that she looks more like her dad, doesn't enjoy the girly things, and naturally she would move more towards tomboyish activities since she doesn't fit in in lady-land. Along with that, she doesn't dream of all the things typical ideological girls dream of, like sansa, but rather she wants to be a fighter, a knight...but she can't because she's a woman. But she doesn't let that get her down, showing determinism, and strong-will (stubborn), she wins her dad over to let her practice swordfighting. She's the practical one, the one more grounded in reality because she's met opposition early in her life (not being good at the stuff girls are supposed to be good at, and not being as pretty as her older sister). So she's easier to like, but she too is a product of her environment and her physical makeup.

Jamie - At this point in the series, he seems cold-hearted but charming, which is fair enough but the book at this point made him a bit more heartless I think, or maybe that's just how I was reading him.

Tyrian - Just starting to get some new depth for his character with this latest episode. Really starting to see how he's treated by his father, some of the history with his family, etc. Really well done character in both the book and now the show.
I think its odd to see words like "naive" and "idealistic" used to describe Sansa when, at this point in the TV series as well as this point in the book series, she appears to be perhaps the smartest and most practical of all the Starks. I would certainly use those words to describe Ned, Cat and Rob - complete morons all three whose arrogance and stupidity is responsible for the fall of Winterfell and the scattering of the Stark children. Jon and Arya are likeable, but are both pretty fortunate to have survived their poor decision-making. I still don't think we know much about Bran.
What about Sansa's decision to rely on a drunken jester to help her escape King's Landing? How fortunate is she to survive that? And the decision to tell Cersei of Ned's intent to take his girls and leave King's Landing? How smart was that? Sansa is completely naive as to who the Lannisters really are, right up until Ned's head hits the floor. And even after that she is able to survive more because she is of use to them, and coveted by Littlefinger, rather than because she is particularly smart or resourceful.
This.

There are many examples of how Sansa's fantasy world that she wanted more than anything to live in caused problems for other characters. She's being used simply as a pawn in this game, I'd say, even up to the end of the fourth book. We have yet to see her really make any moves that better her situation or the situation of those around her (aside from the attempt to save her dad, which again, was inteded to be used for the queens purposes.) She's a pawn, a dreamer, and in this game of thrones, she's moved around and manipulated to suit the purposes of other characters, mainly the lannisters.

I expect her at some point, maybe the 5th book, maybe later, to come into her own as a character and flip from being the ideological, naive and pawn player, to a person who still appears to have that role, but instead is making her own moves. I expect something terrible to happen to her though to force this change.

But here's more spoiler stuff, so don't read on unless you've finished the books or don't care. It's interesting to look at the characters based purely on how manipulative they are, and see what that gets them in the book. The more noble you are (rob, ned,Brienne-maybe) the worse your outcome, and in some cases, when you go from bad to good, or do something noble, like tyrian heading up the charge when the castle was under siege, or Jamie going back for Brienne, you're punished and have lasting scars, or you may die (again, Brienne looks like that's her outcome, but maybe not). While those who manipulate are generally still in power and doing fairly well.

It's an interesting book where just about anything can happen to anyone, which is nice to read, and it's also a very cynical book that, imo at least, accurately reflects the way the world works - which is that in order to succeed, you must be cunning and willing to do whatever it takes to hold onto power. Sure, there are exceptions, but that's the trend...and we see that reflected in the book, again, with some exceptions.

Reading books like this remind me of other books with similar styles. Ken Follet's "Pillars of the Earth" and "World Without End" are two that come to mind where the world is hard, and it seems like bad qualities trump good ones. Those are good books too, in case anyone is done with these for now and are looking for a filler until July 12th :) .
 
I think this thread has been great for newcomers to the series, whether they have started to read the book(s) or not. Sometimes clarification from those who have delved into this thing deep or several times really helps understanding the show and books better. Spoilers have been handled pretty well for the most part.

What should we do thread-wise going forward? I plan on reading the other books once Season 1 is over, and it seems like there are a few people who intend to do the same. I'd like to be able to discuss the other books, but do not want to enter that Dragons thread as it seems to be rife with spoilers. Should we continue to discuss things chronologically here and start a new thread when season 2 starts? Or should another thread be created for new readers to the series?

 
If the queen is so hell bent on removing any possible objectors to Joffreys crown, why didnt she have the black haired Helmet boy whacked?he was just a poor boy now easy to get out of the way and clear up any future problems for her
Assuming she even knows about him, it seems like bastards are held in pretty low esteem in this world. I doubt anyone would let him be king. But I'm hoping he does play a larger part in the story somehow - Ned did tell him to come see him when he's ready to wield a sword instead of making them. Then again, Ned's dead baby, Ned's dead.
yeah I was waiting for him to somehow come into the show again as I liked his character's potential. He didnt give respect to a King Hand and he was a nobody, not knowing he was the kings son. Him and Rob teaming up to get vengeance for both their fathers seems like a cool idea
 
I think this thread has been great for newcomers to the series, whether they have started to read the book(s) or not. Sometimes clarification from those who have delved into this thing deep or several times really helps understanding the show and books better. Spoilers have been handled pretty well for the most part.What should we do thread-wise going forward? I plan on reading the other books once Season 1 is over, and it seems like there are a few people who intend to do the same. I'd like to be able to discuss the other books, but do not want to enter that Dragons thread as it seems to be rife with spoilers. Should we continue to discuss things chronologically here and start a new thread when season 2 starts? Or should another thread be created for new readers to the series?
Yeah i havent had anything ruined for me and i love the interaction with the book readers who are knowledgeable about this world that Martin created. Will probably get the 4 books eventually but for now I am just enjoying the show.I think we keep this thread going no need to alienate all the newbies together as we need some background stuff to help sort out some stuff we dont know much about.I keep having these questions pop up out of the blue, now i want to get some info on that weird lady who attacked Bran and now is all of a sudden a preachers daughter. She said Rob was making a huge error going the direction he was going, did Robert end up going that way? He just sent a decoy that direction I assumed.Also how are Bran and the little Starks not in the possession of the Lannisters yet?
 
so do we know 100% now who sent the assassin to kill Bran? Still not sure if the imp did it. Would also like to get clarification if the queen poisoned the first Hand who was killed. and what was the significance of Ned finding the helmet making boy who was Roberts son?also does the Imp know his siblings are banging? does the father? I would think the father would want them punished since honor to family is all he is about. spoiler tag if you feel its needed.
Why ask these questions? If you don't plan to read the books then wait to find out as the story develops on tv. If you do plan on reading the books then do that and don't spoil your viewing pleasure.I truly think you are robbing yourself of a great story if you are seeking these kind of spoilers.
 
I keep having these questions pop up out of the blue, now i want to get some info on that weird lady who attacked Bran and now is all of a sudden a preachers daughter. She said Rob was making a huge error going the direction he was going, did Robert end up going that way? He just sent a decoy that direction I assumed.
She is a Wildling that came from North of The Wall, and things are happening North of the Wall. We had a brief glimpse with the first scene of the series. That's what she's referring to when she says they're marching the wrong way.
 
I think this thread has been great for newcomers to the series, whether they have started to read the book(s) or not. Sometimes clarification from those who have delved into this thing deep or several times really helps understanding the show and books better. Spoilers have been handled pretty well for the most part.What should we do thread-wise going forward? I plan on reading the other books once Season 1 is over, and it seems like there are a few people who intend to do the same. I'd like to be able to discuss the other books, but do not want to enter that Dragons thread as it seems to be rife with spoilers. Should we continue to discuss things chronologically here and start a new thread when season 2 starts? Or should another thread be created for new readers to the series?
Yeah i havent had anything ruined for me and i love the interaction with the book readers who are knowledgeable about this world that Martin created. Will probably get the 4 books eventually but for now I am just enjoying the show.I think we keep this thread going no need to alienate all the newbies together as we need some background stuff to help sort out some stuff we dont know much about.I keep having these questions pop up out of the blue, now i want to get some info on that weird lady who attacked Bran and now is all of a sudden a preachers daughter. She said Rob was making a huge error going the direction he was going, did Robert end up going that way? He just sent a decoy that direction I assumed.Also how are Bran and the little Starks not in the possession of the Lannisters yet?
She meant going the wrong way directionally. She's implying the real threat lies beyond the wall.I don't understand your last question.
 
I keep having these questions pop up out of the blue, now i want to get some info on that weird lady who attacked Bran and now is all of a sudden a preachers daughter. She said Rob was making a huge error going the direction he was going, did Robert end up going that way? He just sent a decoy that direction I assumed.Also how are Bran and the little Starks not in the possession of the Lannisters yet?
Regarding me answering this and my just prior post: I see these questions as 'for clarification' not spoilers.The wildling woman was saying that Robb needed to be heading towards the Wall to fight what's coming from that direction, not away from the wall.The Lannisters are thousands of leagues through hostile territory away from Bran and Rickon.
 

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