HC Mike Tomlin, PIT (2 Viewers)

[Steelers4Life]

I can't help but somehow think it's the players who are mostly responsible for the outcome of games. How has Belichick looked without Brady?

You blame Tomlin for only being able to win with a great QB and not being able to win with crappy ones (which he didn't draft or trade for since he's not the GM)? That's the same for every coach ever.

And l'll continue to say that Tomlin getting these recent teams to the playoffs is basically a coaching miracle.

Incorrect. Nobody says it's only the QB.

The playoff losing hasn't just been since Ben got old and retired. Since 2011, there have only been TWO years when the Steelers won a playoff game, and all 3 of those wins came in 2015 and 2016 against awful backup QBs. Ben was great from 2011 to 2018 and still good on 2020. The playoff losing has been a 14 year thing, not just 3.

It's an inability to hire good assistants. Lack of innovation. Lack of adjustments. A philosophy stuck in the 90's. A lack of discipline on and off the field. Poor game management. Poor clock management. Those have been consistent during his entire coaching tenure. Early on, he inherited a team that was so good that it didn't matter as much.

They've made the playoffs 8 times in the past 13 years. Two of those only because the NFL expanded to a 7th seed in 2020.

They've been good enough to be a fringe playoff team because the defense has been good, the special teams have been good, and the offense has been barely good enough. No miracles were performed.

 

[brewer]

Steelers usually hire from within - Steelers fans want an offensive coach with HC experience? Arthur Smith coming right up!

That's been a recent Tomlin thing for assistant coaches. As for head coaches:

Tomlin came as the DC of Minnesota in 2007
Cowher came as the DC of the Chiefs in 1992
Chuck Noll came as a defensive backfields coach from the Colts in 1969

 

[sm8680]

Just an FYI Chuck Knoll was the DC and backfield coach for both the Chargers and then Colts. Chuck had 6 years of experience in the roll. Cowher had 3. Mike had 1 year.

 

[Big Nate]

The NFL has passed Bill by. Tomlin is still a good coach.

You realize that Tomlin is a ball control, run the ball, play "tough" D coach. Talk about being passed by.

Detroit, PHI, SF say hi. I know what you are saying but if you think old man Bill and Tomlin are the same then I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

The issue with PIT is they don't have the passing weapons that the other teams do so they want to run and grind. I don't fault them for that as they try to address the QB/WR room.

That is the bigger issue than Tomlin. They have found WRs in the past but this year outside of Pickens (and maybe Austin near the end) they didn't have a big threat.

PIT does need work no doubt but everyone thinking a HC change will fix everything is in for a rude awakening. Also are PIT fans willing to do a 2-3 year rebuild? You will likely hire your first coach who is going to lose for 2-3 years before it gets better.

 

[Big Nate]

Steelers usually hire from within - Steelers fans want an offensive coach with HC experience? Arthur Smith coming right up!

That is a gross thought.

 

[sm8680]

Big Nate you really should re-read Steeler4Life last posting a few times.

 

[pinkstapler]

The NFL has passed Bill by. Tomlin is still a good coach.

You realize that Tomlin is a ball control, run the ball, play "tough" D coach. Talk about being passed by.

Detroit, PHI, SF say hi. I know what you are saying but if you think old man Bill and Tomlin are the same then I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

The issue with PIT is they don't have the passing weapons that the other teams do so they want to run and grind. I don't fault them for that as they try to address the QB/WR room.

That is the bigger issue than Tomlin. They have found WRs in the past but this year outside of Pickens (and maybe Austin near the end) they didn't have a big threat.

PIT does need work no doubt but everyone thinking a HC change will fix everything is in for a rude awakening. Also are PIT fans willing to do a 2-3 year rebuild? You will likely hire your first coach who is going to lose for 2-3 years before it gets better.

1. No (reasonable) fan thinks that.
2. Yes, yes we are.
3. I'm hoping so, another 10-7 season is meaningless to me when we all knew in September we didn't have a team capable of competing against the other top teams in the league for a SB. I'd much prefer a few down seasons where we are getting much better draft capitol and building a team with a longer term vision that will sustain for several years, rather than continually making half measure decisions with duct tape and super glue trying to be "competitive" every year to our long term detriment.

 

[3C's]

The NFL has passed Bill by. Tomlin is still a good coach.

You realize that Tomlin is a ball control, run the ball, play "tough" D coach. Talk about being passed by.

Detroit, PHI, SF say hi. I know what you are saying but if you think old man Bill and Tomlin are the same then I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

The issue with PIT is they don't have the passing weapons that the other teams do so they want to run and grind. I don't fault them for that as they try to address the QB/WR room.

That is the bigger issue than Tomlin. They have found WRs in the past but this year outside of Pickens (and maybe Austin near the end) they didn't have a big threat.

PIT does need work no doubt but everyone thinking a HC change will fix everything is in for a rude awakening. Also are PIT fans willing to do a 2-3 year rebuild? You will likely hire your first coach who is going to lose for 2-3 years before it gets better.

1. No (reasonable) fan thinks that.
2. Yes, yes we are.
3. I'm hoping so, another 10-7 season is meaningless to me when we all knew in September we didn't have a team capable of competing against the other top teams in the league for a SB. I'd much prefer a few down seasons where we are getting much better draft capitol and building a team with a longer term vision that will sustain for several years, rather than continually making half measure decisions with duct tape and super glue trying to be "competitive" every year to our long term detriment.

Spot on.

 

[ShamrockPride]

For those bringing the old "who ya gonna replace him with"...

I don't think any Pitt fan that is okay with dumping Tomlin is (unreasonably) demanding they be able to win the same amount of games. Very likely they know there will be a significant drop off into mediocrity for a few years.

It's a better road than being stuck in football purgatory.

 

[fred_1_15301]

The NFL has passed Bill by. Tomlin is still a good coach.

You realize that Tomlin is a ball control, run the ball, play "tough" D coach. Talk about being passed by.

Detroit, PHI, SF say hi. I know what you are saying but if you think old man Bill and Tomlin are the same then I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

The issue with PIT is they don't have the passing weapons that the other teams do so they want to run and grind. I don't fault them for that as they try to address the QB/WR room.

That is the bigger issue than Tomlin. They have found WRs in the past but this year outside of Pickens (and maybe Austin near the end) they didn't have a big threat.

PIT does need work no doubt but everyone thinking a HC change will fix everything is in for a rude awakening. Also are PIT fans willing to do a 2-3 year rebuild? You will likely hire your first coach who is going to lose for 2-3 years before it gets better.

I’m willing to do a 2-3 year rebuild if it means significantly increasing the likelihood of:

A. Getting a franchise QB
B. Getting a coach that maximizes the return on the investment of that QB

Sign me up for that today please. Over the next 2-3 years, I’ll spend more time with my family on Sundays, cut back on drinking and advance my training in a martial arts.

 

[zamboni]

I know a few fan bases that would kill to have a coach that could get their team over .500 year after year after year.

 

[menobrown]

I know a few fan bases that would kill to have a coach that could get their team over .500 year after year after year.

And let me know how they'd feel after about 10 years of this: Steelers after hitting .500

 

[zamboni]

I know a few fan bases that would kill to have a coach that could get their team over .500 year after year after year.

And let me know how they'd feel after about 10 years of this: Steelers after hitting .500

On behalf of Jets fans, I’ll let you know in about 200 years.

 

[3C's]

It's odd that people will say "I'd love to have a team that's always .500"

I guess if you're used to losing that sounds enticing, until you do it year after year and see no path to getting better.

 

[brewer]

Nobody enjoys the year that you go 3-14, but they enjoy the Jayden Daniels pick that the record affords you. This is a QB driven league. Yes, I know Tom Brady was a late round pick and I know Brock Purdy was the last pick of the draft. I also understand that there were a lot of busts at the top of the draft, but the majority of the very successful NFL QBs were top 10 picks in the draft. When you finish 9-8 or 10-7 every year, you simply don't get a shot at those guys.

 

[Tau837]

Teams would be lining up for him in a heartbeat.

Okay, let them line up.

Suppose people might have thought the same of Belichik until recently.

It's not really the same thing at all. Belichick has a stronger track record than Tomlin, obviously. But, Tomlin has more of a positive track record of winning seasons and making the playoffs without a great QB than Belichick had. Even though that was circumstantial (Brady leaving with the Pats having , it is still true.

Also, the first time anyone might have even thought about the Pats being potentially better off without Belichick was maybe after the 2022 season. Comparing then to Tomlin now, Belichick was 70, while Tomlin is 52. Any team that hired Belichick was probably looking at 5 years max, maybe less. Tomlin could coach for 15+ more years if he wants to.

Finally, it was pretty well known that Belichick wanted to be both head coach and GM, or at least de facto GM. I'm not aware Tomlin would push for that. That was a negative for Belichick that Tomlin wouldn't have.

The situations are not at all comparable.

A better example was brought up earlier in the thread -- Andy Reid. While the Eagles have done well since Reid left, do you think if they had it to do over again they would keep him or let him go? I could see them keeping him if they had it to do over again.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Teams would be lining up for him in a heartbeat.

Okay, let them line up.

Suppose people might have thought the same of Belichik until recently.

It's not really the same thing at all. Belichick has a stronger track record than Tomlin, obviously. But, Tomlin has a track record of winning seasons and making the playoffs without a great QB that Belichick did not have. Even though that was circumstantial, it is still true.

Also, the first time anyone might have even thought about the Pats being potentially better off with Belichick was maybe after the 2022 season. Comparing then to Tomlin now, Belichick was 70, while Tomlin is 52. Any team that hired Belichick was probably looking at 5 years max, maybe less. Tomlin could coach for 15+ more years if he wants to.

Finally, it was pretty well known that Belichick wanted to be both head coach and GM, or at least de facto GM. I'm not aware Tomlin would push for that.

The situations are not at all comparable.

A better example was brought up earlier in the thread -- Andy Reid. While the Eagles have done well since Reid left, do you think if they had it to do over again they would keep him or let him go? I could see them keeping him if they had it to do over again.

The situations may be similar, but it's an insult to Andy Reid to compare him to Mike Tomlin when it comes to coaching. Gameday management, hiring assistants, utilizing talent, being adaptable... they aren't remotely close to being similar.

You think Andy Reid would ever hire a guy like Matt Canada or Arthur Smith to run his offense?

 

[Hankmoody]

And, this just may be relevant, who are you going to replace him with?

Someone offensive minded. Ben Johnson is the current hot name. Throw the bank at him.

He's not going to a team with no QB.

He would to go to a team he knows he'll about 20 years with though. They'll stumble on a QB eventually.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I know a few fan bases that would kill to have a coach that could get their team over .500 year after year after year.

Those fan bases would love to have Tomlin then, because that'd be a step up from what they're used to. And as long as they undertand that being .500 or a little better and being an afterthought in the playoffs is likely the ceiling they can reach with him as the coach, all the more power to them.

He had Ben and a great roster from 2011 to 2020 and they still only won 3 total playoff games, all against crappy backup QBs. Most teams don't have a situation where he'll walk into a future 1st ballot HOF QB, either.

 

[Hankmoody]

Steelers usually hire from within - Steelers fans want an offensive coach with HC experience? Arthur Smith coming right up!

Chuck Noll was the DC at Baltimore, Cowher the DC in Kansas City, and Tomlin the DC in Minnesota when they were hired. So by "hire from within" you mean "except for the past 56 years" right?

 

[Kiddnets]

Steelers usually hire from within - Steelers fans want an offensive coach with HC experience? Arthur Smith coming right up!

Chuck Noll was the DC at Baltimore, Cowher the DC in Kansas City, and Tomlin the DC in Minnesota when they were hired. So by "hire from within" you mean "except for the past 56 years" right?

yeah thought I heard that was the case - guess I dont know my Pitt history. Very easy to fact check 3 vs the 20+ we've had for the Jets in similar time frame!

My point though as a team that has gone through coaches like water is - be careful - its pretty bad out here!

 

[5-ish Finkle]

You think Andy Reid would ever hire a guy like Matt Canada or Arthur Smith to run his offense?

Hmm...in this hypothetical did Matt Canada give Andy Reid's kid a college scholarship or nah?

 

[Tau837]

Teams would be lining up for him in a heartbeat.

Okay, let them line up.

Suppose people might have thought the same of Belichik until recently.

It's not really the same thing at all. Belichick has a stronger track record than Tomlin, obviously. But, Tomlin has a track record of winning seasons and making the playoffs without a great QB that Belichick did not have. Even though that was circumstantial, it is still true.

Also, the first time anyone might have even thought about the Pats being potentially better off with Belichick was maybe after the 2022 season. Comparing then to Tomlin now, Belichick was 70, while Tomlin is 52. Any team that hired Belichick was probably looking at 5 years max, maybe less. Tomlin could coach for 15+ more years if he wants to.

Finally, it was pretty well known that Belichick wanted to be both head coach and GM, or at least de facto GM. I'm not aware Tomlin would push for that.

The situations are not at all comparable.

A better example was brought up earlier in the thread -- Andy Reid. While the Eagles have done well since Reid left, do you think if they had it to do over again they would keep him or let him go? I could see them keeping him if they had it to do over again.

The situations may be similar, but it's an insult to Andy Reid to compare him to Mike Tomlin when it comes to coaching. Gameday management, hiring assistants, utilizing talent, being adaptable... they aren't remotely close to being similar.

You think Andy Reid would ever hire a guy like Matt Canada or Arthur Smith to run his offense?

No, but that wasn't the point of the comparison, as you obviously know. Do you have a more comparable example of a team willingly letting go of or trading a coach like Tomlin?

 

[sm8680]

Tau837 you can obviously use the google machine. I did wasn't too hard to come up with the following. Mike Tomlin will not rescind his no trade clause. Why would he.... He has the best job security in NFL history and is paid like a top 3 HC.

Head football coaches who were traded include Bill Parcells, Mike Holmgren, Bill Belichick, Jon Gruden, Herm Edwards, Bruce Arians, and Sean Payton. The trades involved draft picks and had varying levels of success.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I don't think any Pitt fan that is okay with dumping Tomlin is (unreasonably) demanding they be able to win the same amount of games. Very likely they know there will be a significant drop off into mediocrity for a few years.

Absolutely. Lumps will almost certainly need to be taken.

For those bringing the old "who ya gonna replace him with"...

Anymore, my reply to this is just going to be "I dunno...the next Tomlin? Or Cowher?" Nobody outside of rabid Steeler fans (and probably very, VERY few of them either) had either of those guys on their bingo card when Noll and Cowher retired, respectively. The team historically has went after young coordinators who were perceived to be bright and at least some form of "innovative" on their particular side of the football. They can absolutely stick with that same method again...but this time go after an offensive coach, since the NFL landscape has changed a metric effton since 2007.

It's all really just "old man yells at cloud" anyway, though. The Rooneys ain't firing a guy with two years left on his contract to pay him guaranteed $$ to sit on a couch. Perhaps Tomlin decides he's had enough of the noise about his shortcomings and decides to move on, but I seriously doubt he'd do that. Too proud. Nothing meaningful is likely to change for at least a couple years.

 

[Tau837]

Tau837 you can obviously use the google machine. I did wasn't too hard to come up with the following. Mike Tomlin will not rescind his no trade clause. Why would he.... He has the best job security in NFL history and is paid like a top 3 HC.

Head football coaches who were traded include Bill Parcells, Mike Holmgren, Bill Belichick, Jon Gruden, Herm Edwards, Bruce Arians, and Sean Payton. The trades involved draft picks and had varying levels of success.

Holmgren wasn't traded. Arians and Payton retired and their rights were later traded. Parcells, Gruden, and Belichick forced their way out. I think Edwards kind of did that as well. I don't think any of these situations are comparable to the Steelers deciding to pull the plug on Tomlin now. Are there any examples more comparable?

 

[sm8680]

Mike Holmgren with 1 year on his GB contract was traded to Seattle for a 2nd round pick. Don Shula to Miami. Jon Gruden to Tampa. Sean Payton more or less is your closest comparison. Again Mike Tomlin is going nowhere.

 

[Tau837]

Mike Holmgren with 1 year on his GB contract was traded to Seattle for a 2nd round pick. Don Shula to Miami. Jon Gruden to Tampa. Sean Payton more or less is your closest comparison. Again Mike Tomlin is going nowhere.

I agree with you that Tomlin is going nowhere, so I'm not sure why it seemed like you were arguing against that.

You are right that Holmgren was traded, but it was because he wanted to be both GM and HC, so he drove that. Gruden forced his way out. Payton retired and his rights were traded after the Saints already had a new head coach. Examples keep getting cited that are not comparable to Tomlin, who is not forcing his way out, has not retired, etc.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Maybe some down in the dumps franchise would trade for Tomlin. Then he saves face and the Steelers can move on with a little compensation and the perennial 4-12 team can become a perennial 8-8 team. And the Steelers can try the roller coaster of suck for a real qb and then rise up.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Teams would be lining up for him in a heartbeat.

Okay, let them line up.

Suppose people might have thought the same of Belichik until recently.

It's not really the same thing at all. Belichick has a stronger track record than Tomlin, obviously. But, Tomlin has more of a positive track record of winning seasons and making the playoffs without a great QB than Belichick had. Even though that was circumstantial (Brady leaving with the Pats having , it is still true.

Also, the first time anyone might have even thought about the Pats being potentially better off without Belichick was maybe after the 2022 season. Comparing then to Tomlin now, Belichick was 70, while Tomlin is 52. Any team that hired Belichick was probably looking at 5 years max, maybe less. Tomlin could coach for 15+ more years if he wants to.

Finally, it was pretty well known that Belichick wanted to be both head coach and GM, or at least de facto GM. I'm not aware Tomlin would push for that. That was a negative for Belichick that Tomlin wouldn't have.

The situations are not at all comparable.

A better example was brought up earlier in the thread -- Andy Reid. While the Eagles have done well since Reid left, do you think if they had it to do over again they would keep him or let him go? I could see them keeping him if they had it to do over again.

Eagles fan. If Mahomes comes with Reid, then keep him. Otherwise no.

Reid had won all power struggles in the organization and was spread too thin. It, plus family-related issues, affected his coaching and his ability to recruit other coaches. Parting ways was best for him and the team. In KC he was no longer spread too thin and was far away from where the turmoil occurred that affected his family.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Teams would be lining up for him in a heartbeat.

Okay, let them line up.

Suppose people might have thought the same of Belichik until recently.

It's not really the same thing at all. Belichick has a stronger track record than Tomlin, obviously. But, Tomlin has a track record of winning seasons and making the playoffs without a great QB that Belichick did not have. Even though that was circumstantial, it is still true.

Also, the first time anyone might have even thought about the Pats being potentially better off with Belichick was maybe after the 2022 season. Comparing then to Tomlin now, Belichick was 70, while Tomlin is 52. Any team that hired Belichick was probably looking at 5 years max, maybe less. Tomlin could coach for 15+ more years if he wants to.

Finally, it was pretty well known that Belichick wanted to be both head coach and GM, or at least de facto GM. I'm not aware Tomlin would push for that.

The situations are not at all comparable.

A better example was brought up earlier in the thread -- Andy Reid. While the Eagles have done well since Reid left, do you think if they had it to do over again they would keep him or let him go? I could see them keeping him if they had it to do over again.

The situations may be similar, but it's an insult to Andy Reid to compare him to Mike Tomlin when it comes to coaching. Gameday management, hiring assistants, utilizing talent, being adaptable... they aren't remotely close to being similar.

You think Andy Reid would ever hire a guy like Matt Canada or Arthur Smith to run his offense?

No, but he promoted his offensive line coach to be defensive coordinator because no one else wanted the job.

 

[irish eyes]

I don't think any Pitt fan that is okay with dumping Tomlin is (unreasonably) demanding they be able to win the same amount of games. Very likely they know there will be a significant drop off into mediocrity for a few years.

Absolutely. Lumps will almost certainly need to be taken.

For those bringing the old "who ya gonna replace him with"...

Anymore, my reply to this is just going to be "I dunno...the next Tomlin? Or Cowher?" Nobody outside of rabid Steeler fans (and probably very, VERY few of them either) had either of those guys on their bingo card when Noll and Cowher retired, respectively. The team historically has went after young coordinators who were perceived to be bright and at least some form of "innovative" on their particular side of the football. They can absolutely stick with that same method again...but this time go after an offensive coach, since the NFL landscape has changed a metric effton since 2007.

It's all really just "old man yells at cloud" anyway, though. The Rooneys ain't firing a guy with two years left on his contract to pay him guaranteed $$ to sit on a couch. Perhaps Tomlin decides he's had enough of the noise about his shortcomings and decides to move on, but I seriously doubt he'd do that. Too proud. Nothing meaningful is likely to change for at least a couple years.

Yep, at least 2 more years of absolute misery watching the same BS.

 

[Dizzy]

Just want to make sure I'm getting this right... when the Steelers part ways with Tomlin and hire Mike McCarthy and continue on with mid-level QBs, rosters that make you yawn, and 8-10 win seasons all of this whining stops... or do the whiners just move over to the McCarthy countdown to liquorville thread?

 

[crushedspirit]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

 

[Dizzy]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Who cares?

To replace Tomlin with someone who's coaching philosophy can win in today's NFL would be a step up. Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Or, at minimum, an innovative OC who has a different mindset than he has.Tomlin has proven himself to be awful at hiring assistants though.

 

[crushedspirit]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

His coaching style is not my thing.

I'll take any of the other 3 types in a heartbeat.

 

[menobrown]

Just want to make sure I'm getting this right... when the Steelers part ways with Tomlin and hire Mike McCarthy and continue on with mid-level QBs, rosters that make you yawn, and 8-10 win seasons all of this whining stops... or do the whiners just move over to the McCarthy countdown to liquorville thread?

I don't think it's what people are wanting to have happen with McCarthy but just for a second lets compare these two.

Really the major difference as I see it is Tomlin gets major cool points and keeps his teams constantly in the .500/mix range and McCarthy's team have had peaks and valleys. Some people might prefer always being in the mix, I prefer the peak and valleys approach so you can stink enough to get a better bite of the draft apple, especially as it relates to QB's.

Honestly, and again I'm not all championing for McCarthy because it's not what I want for this team but I was thinking of this the other day how different the media/slant on Tomlin is vs McCarthy. Both have had the same weakness with their teams faltering in the playoffs. Both got a ring with likely future HOF QB's, but I think fan bases for both of those teams don't quite think the Big Ben or Rodgers era teams maximized having those QB's. It's just that Tomlin is fawned over by the media and the thought of firing him is labeled ludicrous to most but as soon as Dallas loses a playoff game most of them start openly talking about McCarthy getting fired.

Tomlin-
183-107-2
8-11 in playoffs

McCarthy-

174-112-2
11-11 in playoffs

Will say for I think the third time. Don't want McCarty, think he makes better sense for some other teams, just trying to point that Parcells said you are what you record is and these two are not that far off but the perception of them seems wildly different.

 

[crushedspirit]

Coaches like Tomlin, McCarthy, Harbaugh, and Payton all have similar regular season W/L%, but Tomlin has the worst % come playoff time at .421

Yet he's usually considered better than the other 3

Go figure

 

[Dizzy]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

 

[irish eyes]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

Steelers don't have an elite defense, not even remotely close to one.

 

[Dizzy]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

Steelers don't have an elite defense, not even remotely close to one.

They don't have an elite anything (including the Ownership group). Yeah, I went there. Most businesses wallowing in mediocrity are built that way from the top down.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

Again, it's never impossible. But it helps if you do in fact have an elite defense and a generational talent at QB. And great assistant coaches to put it all together.

Reid is in a different league than Tomlin.

 

[Dizzy]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

Again, it's never impossible. But it helps if you do in fact have an elite defense and a generational talent at QB. And great assistant coaches to put it all together.

Reid is in a different league than Tomlin.

Yeah, that's why they ran Reid out of Philly.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Kind like the way Andy Reid will threepeat in a few weeks. Yeah, can't win like that anymore.

Again, it's never impossible. But it helps if you do in fact have an elite defense and a generational talent at QB. And great assistant coaches to put it all together.

Reid is in a different league than Tomlin.

Yeah, that's why they ran Reid out of Philly.

One has nothing to do with the other, which you know. Reid was a great coach in Philly too. They decided it was time for a change after a 4 year run when he was 0-2 in the playoffs.

If the Steelers had taken that approach, Tomlin would've been fired after 2014, as the Steelers went 0-2 in the playoffs between 2011 and 2014. He'd never have had the opportunity to go 0-5 in the last 8 years.

But, it worked out well. Philly won a SB a few years later and has been to a other one.

Reid's done well for himself too.

 

[Chaka]

His complete lack of a coaching tree is interesting.

Not necessarily a huge indictment, I could even argue it makes his tenure that much more impressive. But, you'd think after 18 seasons he'd have at least a couple guys get HC jobs.

 

[brewer]

His complete lack of a coaching tree is interesting.

Not necessarily a huge indictment, I could even argue it makes his tenure that much more impressive. But, you'd think after 18 seasons he'd have at least a couple guys get HC jobs.

It's also an issue. He's loyal to a fault. I'm not sure any other organization would have hired Keith Butler and Randy Fichtner as their defensive and offensive coordinators for instance. But it just so happens that they were all on the same coaching staff at Arkansas State in 1998.

Butler famously was quoted as saying he never once made a defensive play call while he was the DC. And speculation is that Tomlin took that ability away from the prior DC, **** LeBeau at some point prior to his departure from the team.

 

[crushedspirit]

He doesn't develop coaches, never has. Aside from catchy Tomlinisms, what's there to learn?

The D is all his, and the O play book is just passed down to the next hire who adds his own wrinkles to the foundation.

There is zero ingenuity in the play calling that assistant coaches can learn from. Just watch a few game tapes and you'll be up to speed.

 

[3C's]

He doesn't develop coaches, never has. Aside from catchy Tomlinisms, what's there to learn?

The D is all his, and the O play book is just passed down to the next hire who adds his own wrinkles to the foundation.

There is zero ingenuity in the play calling that assistant coaches can learn from. Just watch a few game tapes and you'll be up to speed.

Obviously, Tomlinisms are a component of the game that can be utilized to further advance his position within the locker room, even if it's a black garbage bag day.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Living in your fears gets you nowhere.

Nobody wants a McCarthy type here. Shanny, LaFleur, or McVay type yes please and thank you.

McCarthy type? Mike McCarthy is from Pittsburgh.

Who cares?

To replace Tomlin with someone who's coaching philosophy can win in today's NFL would be a step up. Tomlin wants to win with an offense that doesn't make mistakes and an elite defense. The margin for error there is next to nothing and while it may have worked in the 90s or early 2000s, the game has changed and an offensive minded leader is needed.

Or, at minimum, an innovative OC who has a different mindset than he has.Tomlin has proven himself to be awful at hiring assistants though.

That description sounds exactly like the Philadelphia Eagles under Sirianni.