DJackson10
Footballguy
How is he a tenant? He doesn't own any property. The last owner just let him park his Van there and he paid for Bathroom/electricity. There's also no written contract allowing him to be there. Just was a handshake agreement
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Helping my Dad figure out if he can kick someone off the property who not a Tennant suggestions welcomed (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DJackson10
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Thats why my dad didn't want to call the cops, however it was the previous owner who agreed to it. My dad didn't get full ownership to legally do anything like house new tenants till DEC and already told the guy he couldn't park his van there anymore.Ditkaless Wonders said:
Zegras11
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
Already in motion of this happening. Dude doesn't want ownership. it's such a small % too and seems to not care either way
DJackson10
Footballguy
Dude was already offered good Terms. He basically told my dad the other day to F off and told him to go ahead and call the police or sheriff to deal with it. The dude seems to want to get confrontational about it. My dad may have been able to kick him off the property without full ownership but was dealing with other issues with the property. He offered him an apartment or he had to leave. Literally gave him the last 2 months to figure it out.
DaVinci
FairTaxguy
He paid money in exchange for a place to live. He may not have had a written agreement with the previous owner, but your dad acknowledged that there was a continuing tenant/landlord arrangement by accepting his rent payment and giving him terms for an attempted eviction. Your dad needs to lawyer up and do a proper eviction or he may have legal troubles of his own.
DJackson10
Footballguy
It's the property behind the Narberth Ambulance station. Not sure the exact location but the property my dad owns is behind that
DJackson10
Footballguy
Again my dad was only honoring an agreement by the previous owner until he had full ownership. He still has yet to pay for December as well.
Thorn
Footballguy
Believe me I understand the frustration. I used to represent landlords in evictions. But you've got:
1. A person in possession of the real estate (he's physically there and has been for a while).
2. An exchange of money
3. No witness to offer opposing evidence to whatever he says the agreement was.
4. An agreement that pre-dates dad's ownership, so by accepting the real estate, he accepts all prior agreements in place.
Legally he's a tenant and I would proceed only under the advice of a real estate lawyer, or try to cut a deal with the guy as mentioned above.
1. A person in possession of the real estate (he's physically there and has been for a while).
2. An exchange of money
3. No witness to offer opposing evidence to whatever he says the agreement was.
4. An agreement that pre-dates dad's ownership, so by accepting the real estate, he accepts all prior agreements in place.
Legally he's a tenant and I would proceed only under the advice of a real estate lawyer, or try to cut a deal with the guy as mentioned above.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
What about getting together a lump sum of money and paying the guy to just leave? If it's anywhere close to what you'd spend on the attorney and given the value of the property, it might be the cheapest and fastest way to resolve the situation?
I have no idea if that's even possible, not a lawyerguy, but just a thought.
I have no idea if that's even possible, not a lawyerguy, but just a thought.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Lease agreements, even verbal transfer with the property. Non payment doesn't matter because you can't evict until the end of January and that will likely be extended until the end of September. I don't know about PA, but in my state the police won't do anything. I've seen cases where people break into and take up residence in vacate properties. The police will tell you to go to court and get a writ of possession and the sheriff will remove them.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Yup. A lot of of foreclosure operations often use cash for keys to get people to leave. (I realize there are no "keys" in this situation).
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
Offered good terms? Your Dad told him to leave, offered no money, and you thought that John would then leave on good terms? You and your father clearly know zilch about tenant law or tenant rights. You are in for a long and expensive journey unless you can appease John.
Out of curiosity, is John a veteran of the military?
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DJackson10
Footballguy
My dad offered the guy to take up one of the rentals or he had to leave. The guy was already on bad terms with my dad already. The guy is a jack### and I would never offer a guy like that money myself. This guy has gotten into verbal disputes with tenants, almost ran another over with his van and my dad still told him hey either take up a room as I can now offer you one or you need to leave. My Dad helped another tenant move out and go else where found him a spot. But despite the other tenant being annoying the dude wasn't a jerk about it either like this guy. Like I said my dad has been more than patient with this guy where someone else would've already kicked him off. No there really isn't much to go by on John info wise. The previous owner I don't know if he knew the guy from around or what. What does military veteran have to do with anything because it doesn't absolve him of being a jerk if he was. I just think he's me ignorant clown who feels he can do whatever he wants.Don Hutson said:
THE GUY OWNS NO PROPERTY THERE JUST HIS VAN. THE PREVIOUS OWNER ALLOWED HIM TO PARK THERE AND PLUG HIS VAN IN FOR ELECTRICITY USE THE FACILITY. MY DAD'S UNDERSTANDING WAS THE DUDE NEEDED SOMEWHERE TO BE FOR A MONTH OR SO BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON STAYED I GUESS BECAUSE OF WHAT A PUSHOVER THE PREVIOUS OWNER WAS. YES HE PAID THE PREVIOUS OWNER TO USE THE ELECTRIC AND FACILITIES BUT DIDN"T OWN A PLACE. HE'S NO WAY A TENNAT THERE.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think my dad given how the dude has handled things would rather not give this guy any money at all if it can be done. Again by law I'm not even sure in my area what was done is even legal so if it's not my dad I believe could just kick him off the property. Again some of us are making assumptions here he is a tenant and what was done previously was legal. I'm still trying to figure out even what was done by the previous owner was legal or not. I believe two other tenants however were there when the agreement with the prior owner happened. From my understanding both said it was a month to month thing. Which is why my dad had thought he was only staying there a month or two.Thorn said:
The previous owner before death wasn't in the right state of mind the last few months of his life when this deal happened as well so I'm not sure if that could be argued better judgement the previous owner wouldn't have allowed. Yes my dad accepted the real estate and all prior agreements however there was no written one about this guy even being there. Just some handshake that luckily two tenants were there not sure why but were there. So its my dad and those tenants vs this guys word. Plus I think the other tenants are more then happy to have this guy leave with all the issues he's caused.
DaVinci
FairTaxguy
Freak Show
Footballguy
Sell the property. This sounds like a problem that your father, and you, are taking personally. Operate it as business, or get out. This is just my opinion.
belljr
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm pointing out certain aspects people missed because they skimmed the initial post. Again I'm not even sure if the guy is legally a tenant. He doesn't own property and had a handshake agreement with a prior owner. He's also caused numerous issues. Again I agree with the lawyer part or just calling the police. The whole deal was such an under the table deal and personally just poor decision making from the previous owner.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Can you please stop putting these two together. One has nothing to do with the other.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Ok just curious how so even if it was a handshake agreement. He lives in an RV/VAN doesn't rent a property or anything. Just pays to hook up the van for electricity and use Bathroom/Shower. I am not arguing with you btw just interested in a how judge sees this. Also different locations have different rules on living in an RV and where. I'm not sure on those rules in PA or the township its in.
Zegras11
Footballguy
I'm not a RE lawyer, but the payments made for the use, even if partial, establishes some form of tenancy. Even if it's not in writing,
For sure, every state has different laws on all of this stuff.
Heck, it's a form of tenancy if someone uses a property and no payments are made (and no agreement, written or verbal). If the owner does nothing to stop it legally, then some rights are given to that tenant. Super complex stuff. Really need to consult a RE attorney.
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
Rent an ice cream truck and park it behind him. Advertise often.
Thorn
Footballguy
Not sure why you keep fighting this. He paid money and lives on the property. That gives him legal status as a tenant. Not to mention he's the only one who can offer testimony about what the agreement was. And regardless, the risk you run by not treating him as a tenant is immense.
But hey it's your (or your dad's) funeral, go ahead and cut off water and electricity to someone who paid for it and see what happens I guess.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
northern exposure
Footballguy
I can't understand why anybody would do this because the initial post was such a brief, concise recap of the situation.
top dog
Footballguy
My wife is a regional property manager for a number of apartment properties in OH, PA, and WV. Mostly HUD, but some market. I asked her about this and she was like "He is not a tenant". I asked her if she was sure because everyone else was saying he was a tenant. So I read her the OP. I got to the very end where Dad took his check for two months. She immediately raised her eyebrows and said, "Yeah. He's screwed. You have to evict him now. Write up an agreement and offer him $1000 to leave and if he accepts it, have him trespassed against the property. To keep him from coming back."
FWIW.
FWIW.
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DJackson10
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
A few quick updates:
We've had a lot of snow in the last few weeks so my dad as owner has had to shovel the property. My dad while shoveling the van owner and a friend decided for some reason it'd be cool to drive over most of the snow making it more compact and harder for my dad to shovel (Who had just started removing snow from the drive way this guy was in. No apology from either one and went about their way with no care for person walking their dog and almost hitting it.
My dad went up to confront them both. The dude in the truck (this guys friend) was lit. Dad could smell alcohol and told the owner of the truck he had to leave or he was calling the cops. After a brief confrontation the Van owner got out of the truck and the dude's buddy left. The next day the Van owner came to my dad acting like he was a victim and coming up with a bunch of bull#### excuses. My dad told him he didn't want to hear it and went about his business with another tenant.
A few hours later one of the other tenants came and complained about the guy to my dad and saying he had reason to believe the dude has been selling drugs or doing illegal activity because this owners Bedroom is directly overlooking this guys van and that driveway. He said there's been a few issues over the last 2 and a half months of loud noises and some arguing from this guy with people he's never seen before. Could tell they didn't know each other from before. Other loud noises were the other people's vehicles.
The next time my dad saw this guy with the van was about a week ago and was about to confront him on the issue. Before he could say anything the Van owner said he was moving off the property at the end of this current month (feb). We'll see what happens this week and the tenant who complained to my dad asked what was going on and told my dad he hadn't seen or heard much activity. So hopefully this guy is gone by the end of this week. My dad already went to the police station locally and talked to someone about what he could do about the guy. The person he spoke to said if he can get enough written complaints about the guy from his tenants when my dad calls the cops if he needs to on the guy they can gladly remove him off the premises immediately especially if anyone is fearful of their safety with this guy around. Non of the other tenants like the guy and my dad already have everyone but 2 tenants statements. So we'll see what happens.
We've had a lot of snow in the last few weeks so my dad as owner has had to shovel the property. My dad while shoveling the van owner and a friend decided for some reason it'd be cool to drive over most of the snow making it more compact and harder for my dad to shovel (Who had just started removing snow from the drive way this guy was in. No apology from either one and went about their way with no care for person walking their dog and almost hitting it.
My dad went up to confront them both. The dude in the truck (this guys friend) was lit. Dad could smell alcohol and told the owner of the truck he had to leave or he was calling the cops. After a brief confrontation the Van owner got out of the truck and the dude's buddy left. The next day the Van owner came to my dad acting like he was a victim and coming up with a bunch of bull#### excuses. My dad told him he didn't want to hear it and went about his business with another tenant.
A few hours later one of the other tenants came and complained about the guy to my dad and saying he had reason to believe the dude has been selling drugs or doing illegal activity because this owners Bedroom is directly overlooking this guys van and that driveway. He said there's been a few issues over the last 2 and a half months of loud noises and some arguing from this guy with people he's never seen before. Could tell they didn't know each other from before. Other loud noises were the other people's vehicles.
The next time my dad saw this guy with the van was about a week ago and was about to confront him on the issue. Before he could say anything the Van owner said he was moving off the property at the end of this current month (feb). We'll see what happens this week and the tenant who complained to my dad asked what was going on and told my dad he hadn't seen or heard much activity. So hopefully this guy is gone by the end of this week. My dad already went to the police station locally and talked to someone about what he could do about the guy. The person he spoke to said if he can get enough written complaints about the guy from his tenants when my dad calls the cops if he needs to on the guy they can gladly remove him off the premises immediately especially if anyone is fearful of their safety with this guy around. Non of the other tenants like the guy and my dad already have everyone but 2 tenants statements. So we'll see what happens.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Look down below your post. He said he should be out of there by this week as he said start of the month. We'll see what happens.
D'OHtis
Footballguy
This guy isn't going peacefully. So here's some alternatives GB.
Get one of your CZW buddies and challenge the guy to a Barbed Wire Loser Leaves Property match.
Or pay Ben Simmons some money. If van guy can beat him in a 3 point shooting contest.....he gets to stay forever.
Keep us updated
Get one of your CZW buddies and challenge the guy to a Barbed Wire Loser Leaves Property match.
Or pay Ben Simmons some money. If van guy can beat him in a 3 point shooting contest.....he gets to stay forever.
Keep us updated
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
He's in real trouble if I get Nick Gage on him. Dude did some time. And a friend of mine is neighbors with Sandman who's always looking for a fight.This guy isn't going peacefully. So here's some alternatives GB.
Get one of your CZW buddies and challenge the guy to a Barbed Wire Loser Leaves Property match.
Or pay Ben Simmons some money. If van guy can beat him in a 3 point shooting contest.....he gets to stay forever.
Keep us updated
AAABatteries
Footballguy
1. Do not consult an attorney- those guys are vultures and 90% of the time you can figure these things out without one.
2. Can you please provide a little more details about the situation? I’m not sure I’m clear on what is happening with the van guy. Is he a tenant?
2. Can you please provide a little more details about the situation? I’m not sure I’m clear on what is happening with the van guy. Is he a tenant?
D'OHtis
Footballguy
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Schrodinger's tenant: depending on where you are in this thread van guy either is or isn't a tenant.
-QG
DJackson10
Footballguy
My dad hates confrontations in general. I hate saying it but his mouth on somethings is bigger than his actual actions. Maybe it's the Italian in him who down plays any success he gets as he's always thinking there's some negative on the horizon. My dad doesn't have any of the cash flow yet. There's another guy who has a small percentage of ownership who lives in Germany but is willing to sell his half to my dad for full ownership. My Dad is discussing with potential buyers for the property but so far no one wants to buy all four. Either 1 or 2. However there is a guy who lives on the corner who was interested a few yrs ago who is still interested in buying and went to my dad about it a few days ago. Another guy who lives behind on the other side of the one property had interest years ago and some interest. My Uncle (His Brother) had to lend him the money for the property tax fees you need to pay off so some of that money my dad makes off selling them 50K of that at the very least could go to my uncle (possible more as my dad might give him some more as a thank you for his help plus his one sister who has been active in helping).
All my dad is doing right now is collecting tenants checks and paying the bills and or fixing essential issues as thats all legally he can do. As well as snow removal. The previous owner AKA My Dad's client for yrs kept horrible financial records. he was also a hoarder and had numerous subscriptions to crap my dad has been canceling over the last year. There was hardly any money in this guys account when he died either. So my dad has been more so figure out those finances. I probably should've cleared up the financial stuff a little more clear in the initial post here
DJackson10
Footballguy
Update 1: First as I said a co owner of the property my dad is having issues with. The dude lives in Germany and has only had contact through email with this guys wife. He finds it strange when he wants to set up a zoom or phone chat with the guy it's never a good time or some excuse. My dad was talking to the attorney and mentioned he thinks the dude might be dead and the wife isn't saying anything because by laws of the contract signed (If her husband died his shares of the property go back to the original owner at no cost). In other words if the dude is dead the guys shares go to my dad. So they are trying to figure that part out. Wife of this dude hasn't been confrontational but my dad is suspecting funny business on their side
UPDate 2: My Dad sold 2 of the 4 property buildings. Settlement is late May and got a $20k advance down payment from the guy. Buyer owns the 2 propertes next to it on the same street. About $1M sold but with taxes and such at the end my dad is probably only making less then $500K off of it after all the fees and stuff plus paying my uncle back on the property inheritance fee.
The other great news is this is the property the Jerk who was living in his van is on. The new owner is a no BSer. Anyway my dad killed two birds with one stones and this guy in the van officially has until settlement to haul out. Buyer already told him he wants him out because he taking a bulldozer to the property and if the dudes van is still there the van is going with the property when he runs the Dozer. My Dad already warned him about selling it and the residence (about 2) still living in the properties being sold are moving across the street now to the ones my dad has left. My Dad's plan is to sell the 3rd in a few yrs as it should get more value by then. he wants to keep the other property as it has a shed/Garage that he can turn into a workshop that he always has wanted and he can use the house for office space and such.
UPDate 2: My Dad sold 2 of the 4 property buildings. Settlement is late May and got a $20k advance down payment from the guy. Buyer owns the 2 propertes next to it on the same street. About $1M sold but with taxes and such at the end my dad is probably only making less then $500K off of it after all the fees and stuff plus paying my uncle back on the property inheritance fee.
The other great news is this is the property the Jerk who was living in his van is on. The new owner is a no BSer. Anyway my dad killed two birds with one stones and this guy in the van officially has until settlement to haul out. Buyer already told him he wants him out because he taking a bulldozer to the property and if the dudes van is still there the van is going with the property when he runs the Dozer. My Dad already warned him about selling it and the residence (about 2) still living in the properties being sold are moving across the street now to the ones my dad has left. My Dad's plan is to sell the 3rd in a few yrs as it should get more value by then. he wants to keep the other property as it has a shed/Garage that he can turn into a workshop that he always has wanted and he can use the house for office space and such.
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