Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Sigh....three more hours of Matt Schaub, then freedom
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Houston Texans 2013 In-season thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter coolnerd
- Start date
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Penn State Reportedly Preparing to Lose O'Brien:
http://onwardstate.com/2013/12/29/penn-state-reportedly-preparing-to-lose-bill-obrien/
http://onwardstate.com/2013/12/29/penn-state-reportedly-preparing-to-lose-bill-obrien/
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
O'Brien and Bridgewater?
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
All too predictable....a good drive to start the game then progressively worse. Looking forward to a new era
I think I'm down for this. If we could convince McCown to take a Texas hometown discount and be our backup I think that would be incredible! Hell let him start the season then bring Teddy in after he's sat and learned for a few weeks. I know we are used to seeing rookies come in right away these days, but i think there's nothing wrong with the classic "grooming" method. Fair-weather fans won't get behind that tho.Houston turmOiler said:
GregR
Footballguy
I'd be fine with it too. I can definitely think of worse options.
Interested to see what happens as the scouting services start breaking down Bridgewater and Bortles further. Here's what McShay has:
Interested to see what happens as the scouting services start breaking down Bridgewater and Bortles further. Here's what McShay has:
1. Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Louisville Cardinals
I had Houston selecting Bridgewater in my first mock draft earlier this month. My reasoning then is the same as it is now: Given the importance of quarterback play in the NFL and the Texans’ need at the position, it’s hard to see the Texans not talking themselves into taking the top quarterback prospect on their board.
The top QB prospect on our board right now is Bridgewater. Granted, he isn’t on the elite level of Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III; in fact, he’s only the ninth-ranked prospect overall in our rankings. (It’s also worth noting that he hasn’t yet said whether he’ll leave school early for the draft.) There are concerns about his long-term durability in the NFL because of his lean frame, and his ceiling isn’t as high as Luck’s, RG III’s or even the second-ranked QB on our board, UCF’s Blake Bortles (more on Bortles later).
But there is a lot to like about Bridgewater’s game. He has proved he can beat opponents from inside the pocket with his accuracy, quick release and ability to read defenses. He is also very mentally and physically tough, and he has good mobility. (Check out his TD run in the Cardinals’ bowl win over Miami on Saturday night.) So although he isn’t a perfect prospect, I’ve got him as the No. 1 QB in this draft class right now, and if the Texans feel the same on May 8, I think that they’ll make him the top overall pick.
2. Blake Bortles, QB, UCF Knights
Bortles is one of the fastest-rising prospects in the entire draft. He didn’t debut in our Top 32 rankings until Dec. 4, and we had him going No. 3 in our mock draft just two weeks later. But even though many fans are unfamiliar with him, it would not surprise me if he eventually unseated Bridgewater as the top QB prospect in this class -- if he opts to leave school early, that is.
Bortles has a higher ceiling than Bridgewater, with a strong, accurate arm, good size and the ability to move around in the pocket and deliver throws even when defenders are hanging all over him. (He resembles Ben Roethlisberger and Joe Flacco in that respect.) He has a chance to improve his stock in Wednesday night’s Fiesta Bowl, when the Knights play Baylor.
Placing Bortles as the No. 2 option here is all about the value of the QB position and Houston’s need for one. Sure, getting an elite offensive tackle or elite pass-rusher (two of the Texans’ other options with the top pick) would be nice, but you don’t need either of those to win a Super Bowl -- and when’s the last time a team won it all with a quarterback who wouldn’t be classified in the league’s top 10 at the position? Exactly. It’s not surprising to hear ESPN colleague Adam Schefter's report Sunday morning that Texans GM Rick Smith is spending the week scouting several college quarterbacks in their bowl games, Bridgewater and Bortles included.
ragnarok628
Footballguy
ok so this Blake Bortles name is sudden. What's his deal? Any compelling reason to want this guy?
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
All's quiet in State College today. I'm wondering if anyone in Houston has heard any chatter.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Quiet as a mouse here....
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Sounds good to me...now lets get our QB
GregR
Footballguy
Heard the news while watching the A&M game. Glad they got him hired and can start moving forward as quickly as possible.
I'm... really I'm just no more than cautiously optimistic. I tend to think more negatively of coaches coming out of the Patriots than I do positively. I think a good coach like a Saban or Kelly who would have developed into a good coach under anyone may pick up more watching Belichick than they might another coach.
But beyond them, I think there have been too many coaches who worked with Belichick who then think they can go out and be Belichick, and they aren't him. Seeing him knowing how to push people's buttons, and knowing how to push them yourself, are not necessarily the same thing.
That O'brien had some college success as a head coach is good, and under some poor circumstances. Of course, Charlie Weis was looking great in his two years at ND too.
Not trying to throw a wet blanket on things. I don't think it's a bad hire at all, short of Cowher or Shaw I couldn't really name someone I think was a realistic option who is clearly better. I'm just kind of tempering my excitement since I just don't know a lot about him yet as a coach.
I'm... really I'm just no more than cautiously optimistic. I tend to think more negatively of coaches coming out of the Patriots than I do positively. I think a good coach like a Saban or Kelly who would have developed into a good coach under anyone may pick up more watching Belichick than they might another coach.
But beyond them, I think there have been too many coaches who worked with Belichick who then think they can go out and be Belichick, and they aren't him. Seeing him knowing how to push people's buttons, and knowing how to push them yourself, are not necessarily the same thing.
That O'brien had some college success as a head coach is good, and under some poor circumstances. Of course, Charlie Weis was looking great in his two years at ND too.
Not trying to throw a wet blanket on things. I don't think it's a bad hire at all, short of Cowher or Shaw I couldn't really name someone I think was a realistic option who is clearly better. I'm just kind of tempering my excitement since I just don't know a lot about him yet as a coach.
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Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
I dont want Cutler....dont think he is ever gonna win big. Have concerns about Clowney's desire but he would be interesting to pair at RE with Watt at LE in a 4-3. That could be a strategy for dealing with a guy like Luck in your division, but I want a QB and think that is what O'Brien was brought in to develop. Doesnt seem like a good fit with a surly Cutler either. I kinda like Bridgewater and would like to pair him with O'Brien and see if we can develop a top coach/QB pair....that to me is the best way to consistently have a shot every year. Trading back and taking an OT like Matthews doesnt excite me. We need a freaking QB above everything...if we trade back I guess I could live with the extra pick or two and getting Johnny F###ing Football. I have concerns about his ability to take a pro beating and whether he can harness some of the wild careless plays into a more efficient style like Russell Wilson to keep himself alive and limit turnovers, but his fire and competitiveness and playmaking ability might be worth taking a shot on if Cleveland offers its two first rounders to move up....
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24394544/teddy-bridgewater-to-enter-nfl-draft
Congrats, barring a disaster in the front office you guys have a franchise QB
Congrats, barring a disaster in the front office you guys have a franchise QB
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Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
You think he'd throw for 4k in his rookie year?
I'm not very optimistic about taking Bridgewater. Would prefer to trade back.
Ninja, I agree that a trade back is the best scenario for the Texans. I guess my feeling is that I'm not in LOVE with Teddy, Clowney, Manziel or Bortles. But would anybody be willing to play ball with the texans and make a trade? What's a good/fair price for the top pick in a class like this one? Both of Cleveland's first rounders? Does O'Brien HAVE to find his guy this year? Could he skate by in 2014 with a Vick or McCown and maybe try to land a prospect in 2015 draft? Or roll the dice on one of THIS years injured QB prospects? Your thoughts? Thanks man.FF Ninja said:
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Personally I dont want to screw around with this pick....if we end up with someone other than Bridgewater or even Manziel I wont be very happy. We brought in O'Brien to mentor a QB so give him the best prospect possible and get moving with it. I think Bridgewater with O'Brien is a perfect fit....I like Teddy's game and I like that he is a film junkie...I think that will mesh well with his coach and produce the kind of QB we have longed for.
Lots to happen still. Everyone seems to think that O'Brien was the guy to get this year so at least they've taken care of business. I'm more interested to see what happens next with the rest of the coaching staff (are they keeping Wade to run the defense? Will anyone be interested in Wade to be a head coach again?) and if they clean house with any vets. Daniels & Manning could be cut for significant cap savings. Schaub will obviously be cut. Tate is definitely gone, be interesting to see what we do in the draft for the other picks and if RB is in the plans. Antonio Smith is a FA, can they resign him or do they go for a replacement DE in the draft? It's not urgent now but you have to also start thinking about the DB's with Jackson only a club option for 2014, McCain being a waste of space and Joseph in the last year of his deal in 2015.
Draft is later than usual this year, lots of time to speculate how they will spend those early picks. Bridgewater or go 1st pick of the 2nd round route? I'd be highly surprised if we sign anyone to play QB with our cap situation and Watt's contract looming in the near future. I'm curious to see if they really do think we are just a QB & coach away from competing again or if they take 2014 as an opportunity to shed some cap.
Draft is later than usual this year, lots of time to speculate how they will spend those early picks. Bridgewater or go 1st pick of the 2nd round route? I'd be highly surprised if we sign anyone to play QB with our cap situation and Watt's contract looming in the near future. I'm curious to see if they really do think we are just a QB & coach away from competing again or if they take 2014 as an opportunity to shed some cap.
dhockster
Footballguy
2014 Cap Savings if cut:
Manning $4,500,000
Daniels $4,500,000
Schaub $4,000,000
Joseph $3,750,000
Texans are currently about $9,000,000 under the projected cap for 2014 of $127,000,000.
That's always the question... will anyone trade back? Previously (when we took Mario), the #1 pick got paid so much that nobody really wanted to trade for it. Now, it's actually got some value. If a team w/o a QB (Cle or StL) falls in love with one of the less than spectacular prospects then we obviously jump on it. If not then I guess we make a guess as to if a guy will fall to the 2nd or if we should take a QB with the #1.
The other option is if O'Brien likes what he's seen from Cousins then we go after him with the #33. His salary is still very cheap to offset Schaub's cap hit, then we could pay him when his rookie contract is up.
coolnerd
Footballguy
There has not been a trade involving the number 1 pick since Eli whined his way to new York. I am not sure that fans' perception of the possibility of trading the pick is aligned well what the NFL thinks of trading to get the 1st overall pick. if the league views this draft as having less than spectacular prospects also history and logic says they are not trading valuable assets this year either. The discussion of trading down will take up at least 50% of draft talk between now and then, when there probably is only a 10% chance of it actually happen.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Please do not trade for Cousins.....baby Matt Schaub turnover machine. Time to aim higher....
The Bandit
Footballguy
I don't see any way they cut Joseph. The last game of the season should have shown definitively that Brice McCain cannot be a full time starter, he shouldn't even be a nickel guy, he sucks. If we keep Wade as DC I don't think they will cut Manning as his system relies heavily on having 3 safeties in rotation most of the time. My guess is Daniels and Schaub are gone and 5-7M is used to resign Antonio Smith and possibly Earl Mitchell. Another 4-5M for the #1 pick and other rookies too. That would still leave some nice room for 2015 as Schaub's 10M in dead money comes off the books. You could also work extensions with 1 or both of Manning & Joseph to lower their cap numbers and keep them around and shore up the secondary. I think Kareem walks next year, teams love to blow $$$ in FA on semi-decent corners.
Probably considerably less likely than media makes it out to be, but don't forget the salary cap structure of draft picks changed a few years ago, which makes it a more valuable asset. Before noone even really wanted the #1 pick most years.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say earlier with the bolded. I do acknowledge that there aren't many trades for the #1 in recent history, but this rookie salary structure is very new and I think it makes the #1 pick much more appealing and therefore easier to move. But there does have to be motivation from both sides. The obvious safe move here is for the new coach to take a new QB on a team without a QB. It'll be popular with the media. It'll be popular with the fans. Unless Clowney blows up or Matthews becomes the best tackle in the league then it'll be hard for people to second guess the decision even if Bridgewater is average. I mean, even slightly above average QBs (such as Stafford) aren't second guessed as #1 picks. So I'm pretty sure they'll take the easy way out and stick with the pick, but I'd sure like to see what we could get for it.
GregR
Footballguy
Oof. Saw an ESPN graphic with Belichick's coaching tree and how they've done in the NFL.
Crennel 28-55
Al Groh 9-7
Eric Mangini 33-47
Josh McDaniels 11-17
Nick Saban 15-17
Jim Schwartz 29-51
Combined 125-194 for a .392 winning percentage. Ugh. Only Al Groh above .500
Bright side, Saban proved he's a good college coach even if not proven a good NFL coach.
Still will call myself cautiously optimistic, but caution is definitely equal to optimism.
coolnerd
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10238006/houston-texans-owner-bob-mcnair-open-trading-no-1-pick
"Maybe we'll trade down and still get a quarterback that can do the job and get an outstanding defensive player," McNair said Friday. "It's an exciting time. Everything's a moving target. Lot of different pieces."
"I don't think you take a particular position just because you need a particular position at any point in the draft, especially the first pick," Texans general manager Rick Smith said. "So we'll rank it, we'll value it, and we'll make good choices if the opportunity presents itself to move back because it is a very valuable pick, and we'll entertain those as well."
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Even the percentage chance of getting a trading partner is 10% as I guesstimated earlier, I have no problem with the Texans giving themselves the chance at that 10%.
"Maybe we'll trade down and still get a quarterback that can do the job and get an outstanding defensive player," McNair said Friday. "It's an exciting time. Everything's a moving target. Lot of different pieces."
"I don't think you take a particular position just because you need a particular position at any point in the draft, especially the first pick," Texans general manager Rick Smith said. "So we'll rank it, we'll value it, and we'll make good choices if the opportunity presents itself to move back because it is a very valuable pick, and we'll entertain those as well."
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Even the percentage chance of getting a trading partner is 10% as I guesstimated earlier, I have no problem with the Texans giving themselves the chance at that 10%.
coolnerd
Footballguy
New Texans coach Bill O’Brien is interested in hiring Romeo Crennel as his defensive coordinator.
Crennel, 66, didn’t coach this season. He was fired as Kansas City’s head coach after the 2012 season with two years left on his contract.
O’Brien said at his introductory news conference on Friday that he wasn’t ready to determine if he’ll play a 3-4 or a 4-3. He used a 4-3 at Penn State. Crennel is a 3-4 proponent.
The Texans switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in 2011 when Wade Phillips became the defensive coordinator. Phillips and the rest of the Texans’ assistants will be interviewed by O’Brien.
If O’Brien is able to lure Crennel back into the coaching fraternity, one of this former New England players thinks it would be a “great” move for the Texans...........
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/01/bill-obrien-to-consider-romeo-crennel-for-defensive-coordinator-position/?cmpid=sportshcat
Crennel, 66, didn’t coach this season. He was fired as Kansas City’s head coach after the 2012 season with two years left on his contract.
O’Brien said at his introductory news conference on Friday that he wasn’t ready to determine if he’ll play a 3-4 or a 4-3. He used a 4-3 at Penn State. Crennel is a 3-4 proponent.
The Texans switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in 2011 when Wade Phillips became the defensive coordinator. Phillips and the rest of the Texans’ assistants will be interviewed by O’Brien.
If O’Brien is able to lure Crennel back into the coaching fraternity, one of this former New England players thinks it would be a “great” move for the Texans...........
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/01/bill-obrien-to-consider-romeo-crennel-for-defensive-coordinator-position/?cmpid=sportshcat
coolnerd
Footballguy
Previous staff fired, Romeo Crennel DC.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/04/bill-obrien-clears-out-texans-staff-to-hire-romeo-crennel/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/04/bill-obrien-clears-out-texans-staff-to-hire-romeo-crennel/
ragnarok628
Footballguy
so, all i know about Crennel is he lost his HC job in KC for winning only 2 games in the 2012 season, and this with a team that looked pretty good on paper at the time, and which under Andy Reid put together a pretty impressive season. So, based on that i get warm fuzzies over this hire. Anyone care to chime in?
coolnerd
Footballguy
Romeo was the DC during the Pats superbowl runs. He is about the same age and like Wade the perception of him is that he is a way better DC than HC.
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Here is my take on it: not doing cartwheels over it, but not dejected either. It should be a soilid, reliable hire. I don't know if Romeo can recapture the level of his patriot days, but I highly doubt he'll put us in the lower half of the league in defense ranking. He's got pelts on the wall. 5 rings if I'm not mistaken. 3 with the pats and 2 with parcells. Look at it this way. It took Kubiak THREE TRIES to get a competent DC:Richard Smith: terrible.
Frank Bush: TERRIBLE
Wade Phillips: good, solid, but couldn't adapt as the years went on. Last in takeaways this year, terrible in penalties and no depth was developed behind our few good starters.
I'm glad O'Brien isn't messing around with newbie hires. Wade was forced upon Kubiak by Bob McNair. Seems Bill won't make that same mistake and I'm fine with that. Romeo should be solid at the worst I believe.
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coolnerd
Footballguy
forgot, that Crennel has not officially been hired by the Texans. rumor he is going to coach the East/West shrine game before taking the job in an above board manner.
GregR
Footballguy
It's possible he might not take the job.
The issue is that he his contract with Kansas City still has him getting paid by them through 2014 but there is an offset clause. Any money he makes coaching another team would offset some of what KC owes him.
So he can sit at home and enjoy life and make, if I remember right, $3m for going fishing and being with his family. Or he can come to work for the Texans and he would still only make the same $3m.
You would hope anyone with the drive to be an NFL coach would want to coach. But I can't blame him at all if he decides to take one more year off before looking for work. All he's doing is adding stress for no extra compensation.
Edit to add: He interviewed this morning for the position.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Because there is no clear cut #1 pick and additionally no clear cut #1 QB, this draft is pivotal for Rick Smith's future. Whatever the Texans do in the first round, it won't be universally liked. So depending on how that pick or trade down goes, he could earn a ton of credit or a ton of grief for this draft. Bill O'Brien may have a major say in the 1st pick, especially if it is a QB, but he is somewhat insulated from criticism because this is his 1st year. Additionally, Johnny Manziel appears to be a boom or bust type guy. I think he will do really well or do really bad, but I do not see him as being a middle of the road, average QB. Depending on whether the Texans take him or not, how he performs will reflect on Rick's Smith's ability to evaluate people in the draft.
coolnerd
Footballguy
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/texans-defensive-coordinator-romeo-crennel-plans-multiple-front-231200317--nfl.html
MOBILE, Ala. — New Houston Texans coordinator Romeo Crennel has yet to break down his new team's defensive personnel, so he's not prepared to say what his grand plans are with this unit. But Crennel did say, when asked whether the Texans would run a 3-4 defense (as they have the past several seasons) or a 4-3 front (as they are rumored to be switching to), Crennel, in essence, answered yes to both.
“We're going to run a multiple defense,” Crennel told a small group of media Tuesday after the North team practice at the Senior Bowl. "You’re going to see a little of everything."
The reason to offer multiple fronts?
“Part [of it is] personnel,” Crennel said. “Knowing who you got and what their strengths and weaknesses are will go a long way to determining how much we run of whatever we run.”
New Texans head coach Bill O'Brien already has watched every snap of every game this past season, and Crennel said he plans to do the same with his new squad following the Senior Bowl this week. But the chance to work with J.J. Watt, Brian Cushing and others does have him eager to get to work.
"That is exciting," Crennel said. "J.J. makes plays."
MOBILE, Ala. — New Houston Texans coordinator Romeo Crennel has yet to break down his new team's defensive personnel, so he's not prepared to say what his grand plans are with this unit. But Crennel did say, when asked whether the Texans would run a 3-4 defense (as they have the past several seasons) or a 4-3 front (as they are rumored to be switching to), Crennel, in essence, answered yes to both.
“We're going to run a multiple defense,” Crennel told a small group of media Tuesday after the North team practice at the Senior Bowl. "You’re going to see a little of everything."
The reason to offer multiple fronts?
“Part [of it is] personnel,” Crennel said. “Knowing who you got and what their strengths and weaknesses are will go a long way to determining how much we run of whatever we run.”
New Texans head coach Bill O'Brien already has watched every snap of every game this past season, and Crennel said he plans to do the same with his new squad following the Senior Bowl this week. But the chance to work with J.J. Watt, Brian Cushing and others does have him eager to get to work.
"That is exciting," Crennel said. "J.J. makes plays."
JFS171
Footballguy
Seems to me that Clowney is going to be this pick, barring a consensus top QB emerging I don't think Manziel fits what DOB wants in a QB (mainly control - I've heard previously DOB wants a guy executing the system, not freelancing).
Bridgewater is not without questions, and neither is Bortles. Plus with a QB/Offensive guru at HC, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans follow the path Harbaugh took in SF by drafting their guy in the 2nd or 3rd and coaching him up. Or there's the trade route for Cousins or Mallet.
Plus Clowney and Watt would be one helluva defensive line...
Bridgewater is not without questions, and neither is Bortles. Plus with a QB/Offensive guru at HC, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans follow the path Harbaugh took in SF by drafting their guy in the 2nd or 3rd and coaching him up. Or there's the trade route for Cousins or Mallet.
Plus Clowney and Watt would be one helluva defensive line...
This is what I'd like to see - or a trade down - but I'm pretty sure we're going to stand pat and take a QB. It is the safe play from a PR standpoint and easy to defend to your boss and/or future interviews.
JFS171
Footballguy
Idk - I've said it elsewhere before, but it's the same franchise that took Mario Williams over Bush and Young. Obviously that was the right pick, but my point is they're not afraid to swim against the popular opinion. This QB class has some developmental guys that will be available in the 2nd round and later, and DOB could always look to trade or "coach up" his guy.FF Ninja said:
When the dust settles, my guess is it's Clowney. That d can be elite again with guys returning from injuries and Clowney added (plus some secondary help via the draft or FA). Add in a healthy Foster and the OL in place, and you can protect and develop a QB without asking him to win games for you.
The Bandit
Footballguy
I think it's still far too early to say much either way on who the pick will be. For now I think they are just making sure to keep all options open when talking to the media. There was a blurb that suggests they havent really started looking at the prospects yet since O'Brien knew only a little about some of the top QB prospects. They are still lining up personnel and reviewing game tape on the veterans it seems. Romeo wasn't even officially hired until a few days ago. Once we get to FA and see who they cut and who they keep we'll have a better idea of where they are going and then of course comes the combine.
With Phillips gone I'm wondering if they part ways with Manning to save cap space. And a big hint to me will be if they make any attempt to resign Antonio Smith. If not, then Clowney becomes a much realer possibility in my mind, even if some people don't think he would work as well in a 3-4.
With Phillips gone I'm wondering if they part ways with Manning to save cap space. And a big hint to me will be if they make any attempt to resign Antonio Smith. If not, then Clowney becomes a much realer possibility in my mind, even if some people don't think he would work as well in a 3-4.
The Mario pick wasn't really bucking the trend very much. Sure, Bush was the media darling, but he was seen as merely a playmaker, not an every down back. And think about it, does he fit the Denver/Kubiak mold for RB? Not at all. I don't think Bush was ever a very real possibility for a team in such transition. Then we've got Vince Young. Nobody really thought we should take him other than blind, rabid UT fans. Personally, I was going to stop rooting for them if they made that bad of a pick. It would've been popular since he was a hometown kid and everyone in Houston was a UT t-shirt fan at that point, but everybody with any smarts knew it wasn't the pick. Jeff Fisher didn't even want him. Bud Adams forced Vince on him. Personally, I was rooting for Ferguson since we needed OL help, but I was ok with the Mario pick.
Anyway, all of that is moot. That was a different regime. What those guys did is not an indicator of what these guys will do. The only carry over is Bob McNair who isn't a Jerry Jones owner by any means. The only impact Bob seems to have is keeping out the guys with character concerns, which does hurt us a bit, but it's not like he's going to step in and dictate who to take with the #1 pick.
I hope you are right and I hope Crennel is adaptable enough to get the most out of a Watt/Clowney combo.
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