Walker isn't a physician. His knee is.I'm not convinced, however, that Dr. Malo is actually a professional athlete.
:danglingparticiplepolice:
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How did Denver dominate this draft AGAIN? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockbottom895
- Start date
:danglingparticiplepolice:
BigRed
Footballguy
If I can interrupt the cat fights for just a sec:
DEN did well, unfortunately, although they might not really reap the rewards for another year or 2. They again they might.
I see.....so how good a player is depends on what school he's coming out of? Good logic. Oh btw have you ever actually seen him play? lol @ this "Cutler = Boller" drivel.
DEN did well, unfortunately, although they might not really reap the rewards for another year or 2. They again they might.
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thatguy
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you mean by no RB. Dayne will fill Anderson's role and Bell will do his thing. Their running game won't skip a beat. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dayne outperform Anderson. He played very well in ALL of his limited action last season, most of which came in pressure packed situations.As for everything resting on Plummer, that is going to happen no matter what. Denver can't run against 3-4 teams, and with San Diego, Pitt, and NE perennially in the hunt, they have to be able to win through the air. If Plummer can't get it done this year, perhaps Shanny thinks that next year, maybe Cutler can. This is just another reason they got Walker. Shannahan is smart enough to realize that they can't be as one dimensional if they want to compete against teams like Pitt and NE. Expect Denver to air it out more this year.
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broncofan13000
Footballguy
I don't know how you figure Denver has "no RB".
I have to give the Jets props. They got the two best blockers, and filled needs, that will be starting next year. then they got a QB in the 3rd round, that I feel will be better than Cutler in the end. Both are a crap shoot, but the Jets took their role in the 3rd. In Cutler, I see Heath Schuler/Kyle Boller wrapped into one. It's all a crap shoot, and to try and make definitive determinations today is insane. I also like what the Pats did early, getting 2 top 5 offensive players at 21 and early in the 2nd.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Bell has yet to be effective for a full season and Dayne is Dayne. I may draft the third or 4th string RB on the roster (or FB) as a late round flier because I can see that guy being the "Mid season gift" that helps you to a championship.And teams don't go after Ricky Williams with all his baggage if they have a good RB.
The manuevering at the top of the draft to get Cutler & Walker were great, no doubt (unless, of course, you're Gatorman & you think DEN should have wasted a 1st or high 2nd on a RB), but the parts of the draft I really like are the choices of Marshall & Hixon @ WR in the middle - both are great athletes who admittedly are flyers, but if either works out they may have gotten another #1 WR in the draft - and Outland & Lombardi trophy winner Greg Eslinger in the 6th. Geez, yeah he's "only" 295 lbs - which caused all other teams to pass on him. I can't wait to see what he looks like after 3-5 years. People in the NFL are going to shake their heads & wonder why they picked a piece of blubber that they had to cut & watched Eslinger slip to DEN. Dumervil was worthy of a good flyer also - he looks like he's tailor made to be a special teams stud, and he may contribute on the edge in passing downs.
Those are some high quality risk/reward picks later in the draft.
Those are some high quality risk/reward picks later in the draft.
yep, they owned it. They did exactly what I think teams should do in the mid and late rounds. Chris Kuper could be starting quality, I scouted him at the shrine game, and he's got a mean streak in the run blocking game.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I am not saying they needed to addres this at 11 or with the #2 pick, but Shanny is such a RB picking genius, where was his terrell davis pick? I think Denver is stupid to pick a RB in the first round because of the success they have picking them in the second. I see RB as their GLARING need. I could be wrong, but they did not address it at all this offseason.
I know this hasn't occurred to you, but maybe Shanahan already has his guy on the roster & didn't feel any need to pick a RB in the draft, whether it was the 1st round or the 7th round.Shanahan loves Dayne & thought he was going to be a great RB when NY drafted him - and he still speaks very highly of Dayne. There has also been a smattering of talk about Cobbs lately. To be truthful, given Shanahan's track record, I'll take his judgment over your regarding DEN RBs - no offense intended.
Actually, from what I hear, the Rams were giving Cutler a long hard look. I think part of the reason they agreed to trade down is that they thought there was no way in hell that Denver would take him... which was a "masterful" move on Shanahan's part, not even sending scouts to Leinart or Cutler's workouts. Seriously, NOBODY saw that pick coming, which means nobody felt the need to leap ahead and scoop up Cutler.
Didn't you hear? Bell got moved to safety, Cobbs is now a guard, and Ron Dayne is our new punter. With Kubiak gone, Shanahan saw this as the perfect opportunity to create a new offense that consisted of nothing but offensive linemen and a quarterback. With Cutler on the roster, now, he's even considering innovating a few 2QB sets.
I love the picks of Eslinger and Dumerville. Absolutely love them. They got the best college offensive and defensive lineman from last season. Dumerville had more sacks last year than any division 1 player ever except Terrell Suggs, and Eslinger is supposedly a Tom Nalen clone- huge nasty streak and great technique. Plus he comes from a zone blocking school. The last time Denver drafted a Minnesota center (Ben Hamilton), they wound up with one of the best guards in the entire league.
Genius isn't picking a stud RB in the first round. I mean, if Bush becomes a stud, was New Orlean's GM a "genius" for picking him? No, he did the only sensible thing. "Genius" is picking an RB on the second day, or off of waivers, or undrafted, and turning him into a stud. And lo and behold, Denver's roster is filled with undrafted FAs (Bell) and players waived by their former teams (Cobbs and Dayne).Besides, you may see RB as a GLARING need... but Denver's RBs have run for more yards at a higher ypc than any other team in the league since Shanahan came to town. Linemen have come and gone, coaches have come and gone, RBs have come and gone, QBs have come and gone, and still Denver rushes on. By this point, I trust that Denver's running game will be among the league's elite, regardless of what armchair QBs around the league are predicting. I think the first bad rushing game Denver has next year, people will come out of the woodwork asking "What's wrong with Denver?" and "Have they finally lost it?". I also predict that, at the end of the season, Denver's running game will be top 5 all over again.
So how about we cut Shanny some slack before questioning his RB genius. Tell you what- when you coach a team that churns out 10 1,000 yard rushers in 11 years (almost 11 in 11) including a 2,000 yard rusher and a near 1,000/1,000 duo, making studs out of 5 different RBs (6 if you count Anderson twice, and 7 if you count Bell's near-1,000 last year), then I'd say you're in a position to criticise Shanahan's decisions regarding the running game. As it is, how about we wait until after the season is over so you can see exactly which RB ran for 1200+ and can call Shanahan a genius again.
Alright guys, let's drop Maurice Clarett. Okay, let's just drop it. Name ANY TEAM IN THE NFL that has ever had a 100% success rate identifying ANY POSITION IN THE NFL. EVER. Bill Walsh, for all of his supposed QB genius, said that Jake Plummer was going to be better than Joe Montana. New England's front office, for all of the laurels that are being heaped upon them, spent 7 straight draft picks in 2001 on players who were OoF (out of football) within 3 years. And if Bill Bellichick is so good at finding DBs that he could put ANYONE in his secondary and win, how do you explain Duane Starks?Yes, Denver drafted Clarett. Yes, Clarett was a bust. Denver's had 5 *DIFFERENT* 1,000 yard rushers over the past 8 years, including Anderson twice (with a 3-year stint at FB and 1-year stint on IR in between), and a 900 yard rusher thrown in for good measure. Even if Clarett had made the team last year, he wouldn't have gotten carries behind the rushing machine that was Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell/Ron Dayne last season. So suddenly, because Denver spends a draft pick on an RB who doesn't make the team, (and still becomes the best rushing team in the entire NFL- Atlanta had 7 more yards, but they also had Michael Vick), Shanahan's not the best judge of RB talent around?
And don't say it's all just the scheme. If it were really the scheme that was making the RBs look so good, then why wouldn't every team in the league be running a zone blocking scheme right now?
That's your argument that you know more about RBs than Shanahan?
Good one.
How about this argument:
NFL rushing rank for DEN since Shanahan became HC:
1995 5th
1996 1st
1997 4th
1998 2nd
1999 12th
2000 2nd
2001 10th
2002 5th
2003 2nd
2004 4th
2005 2nd
The RBs that did the work? Terrell Davis, 6th round pick. Olandis Gary, 4th round pick. Mike Anderson, 6th round pick. Clinton Portis, 2nd round pick. Rueben Droughns, DET castoff.
So Shanahan missed on a few RBs: Maurice Clarett. Quentin Griffin. Curtis Alexander.
I'd say his percentages & his body of work speaks for itself, and has a hell of a lot more credibility than you. I imagine you don't think so, though.
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
If you don't like being called out for making outlandish, holier-than-thou comments, don't run your mouth. It's as simple as that.There's a difference between praising your teams draft and being delusional about it. You fall in the delusional category. Save the hype for a Broncos board.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
you're funny.What I have been saying is that I am surprised that Shanny didn't go after a day 2 RB that fits his mold. Either someone beat him to it, or he really believes that bell + dayne = success at running the football this year. All I am commenting (and your shanny love notwithstanding) is that them coming out of the draft without a RB has to be a step down in their grade IMHO. You prove my point with your examples of how he has done well drafting RBs late, so either someone has figured him out on that front (o///ned) or he is content with the Daynebell backfield.That's your argument that you know more about RBs than Shanahan?
Good one.
How about this argument:
NFL rushing rank for DEN since Shanahan became HC:
1995 5th
1996 1st
1997 4th
1998 2nd
1999 12th
2000 2nd
2001 10th
2002 5th
2003 2nd
2004 4th
2005 2nd
The RBs that did the work? Terrell Davis, 6th round pick. Olandis Gary, 4th round pick. Mike Anderson, 6th round pick. Clinton Portis, 2nd round pick. Rueben Droughns, DET castoff.
So Shanahan missed on a few RBs: Maurice Clarett. Quentin Griffin. Curtis Alexander.
I'd say his percentages & his body of work speaks for itself, and has a hell of a lot more credibility than you. I imagine you don't think so, though.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gator
BTW personal attacks against me with the "hell of a lot more credibility than you" will get you nowhere with me. I was on this board posting relavent stuff before you, and will still be doing it long after you are gone. GL with that though.
Please - for your sake - quit with the hurt indignation. If you're going to post here that you know RBs better than the HC who has set the current standard for the running game in the NFL, then you'd better come with more than flippant "Maurice Clarett" nonsense. That wasn't a personal attack on you, it was a posting of facts. It may have hurt your feelings, but I will tell you right now that you'll have to come to grips with Shanahan being a better judge of NFL RBs than you are.And LOFL @ the "I was on this board posting relavent stuff before you, and will still be doing it long after you are gone".
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
YAWN.Again, I think you are having a problem with reading comprehension.
The thread is "denver domintes draft again" I said, "can't see how they dominated if they didn't get a RB" and we went from there. Clarett was a stupid mistake no matter how you slice it, and shanny for all his "genius" was almost out of denver a few years ago (or maybe I imagined all those shanny to the Gators rumors that sprang up when Zook was coach). I do not pretend to be a better evaluator of talent than any GM in the NFL, but I do think that it is possible that some of the people on this board could do a better job drafting than some of the GMs today. Fantasy Baseball has already proven that, why can't Fantasy Football?
No hurt indignation here, just wondering when you are actually going to start reading rather than just reacting.
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WampusCat43
Footballguy
The Sporting News wasn't too impressed:
Green Bay Packers -- A+
With linebackers A.J. Hawk and Abdul Hodge, the Packers have the beginnings of a defense that could dominate the NFC North for years.
Arizona Cardinals -- A
QB Matt Leinart at No. 10 was one of the best value picks because he had the pedigree to be chosen first. The Cardinals got value with each selection.
Philadelphia Eagles -- A
The Eagles got defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley and didn't have to move up. They get high value marks for offensive tackle Winston Justice, guard Max Jean-Gilles and wide receiver Jason Avant.
Baltimore Ravens -- A-
Typical Ravens draft, as they'll get multiple starters. One of the best picks of the weekend was wide receiver Demetrius Williams in the fourth round.
New Orleans Saints -- A-
The Saints were smart to take running back Reggie Bush even though they don't need him. Their other picks were OK, though wide receivers Mike Hass and Marques Colston have potential.
Buffalo Bills -- B+
I'd like to beat up the Bills for reaching on safety Donte Whitner, but they redeemed themselves with picks such as defensive tackle John McCargo, cornerback Ashton Youboty and defensive tackle Kyle Williams.
Cleveland Browns -- B+
This was a need-driven draft, and the Browns filled their holes. They got decent value throughout the draft.
New York Jets -- B+
The Jets reeled in arguably the two best offensive linemen in the draft. They can be second-guessed for passing on QB Matt Leinart and overdrafting LB Anthony Schlegel.
Oakland Raiders -- B+
This was a solid draft throughout, with the best value probably being safety Darnell Bing in the fourth round.
St. Louis Rams -- B+
The roster is considerably more talented than it was a week ago. Defensive tackle Claude Wroten is a wonderful player, but he was a risk in the third because of character.
San Francisco 49ers -- B+
Taking DE Manny Lawson in the first was high in my book, but it was in line with a lot of draft boards. Tight end Vernon Davis should be a star.
Atlanta Falcons -- B
Getting cornerback Jimmy Williams in the second round was a nice move. If you considered defensive end John Abraham as part of the draft, the Falcons would get a higher grade.
Carolina Panthers -- B
The Panthers had a decent first-day haul. Running back DeAngelo Williams and cornerback Richard Marshall should be able to contribute this year.
Dallas Cowboys -- B
Looks like another solid draft for the Cowboys. Taking outside linebacker Bobby Carpenter in the first round should complete the transition to the 3-4 defense.
Detroit Lions -- B
The Lions' recent classes have looked better on draft day than during the season, but there isn't much to dislike about whom they took.
Kansas City Chiefs -- B
The defensive rebuilding continues, but the offense might be starting to crumble soon. That's why the Chiefs took QB Brodie Croyle in the third round.
New England Patriots -- B
The Patriots nicely filled needs with their early picks, but my favorite selections were tight ends Dave Thomas and Garrett Mills in the third and fourth rounds.
Pittsburgh Steelers -- B
The Steelers didn't draft until 25th but still ended up with the highest-rated receiver (Santonio Holmes). All in all, it was another solid draft.
San Diego Chargers -- B
The Chargers are rolling the dice with cornerback Antonio Cromartie. If offensive tackle Marcus McNeill stays healthy, he should be a starter soon. QB Charlie Whitehurst was a nice value pick.
Seattle Seahawks -- B
I liked their second-round pick (defensive end Darryl Tapp) better than their first (cornerback Kelly Jennings), but Seattle should have four starters out of this draft within two years.
Chicago Bears -- B-
Return men Danieal Manning and Devin Hester should provide immediate impact. My favorite pick: Defensive end Mark Anderson in the fifth.
Indianapolis Colts -- B-
In time, running back Joseph Addai should be a fine replacement for Edgerrin James. The Colts might have taken cornerback Tim Jennings and inside linebacker Freddie Keiaho higher than they had to.
Jacksonville Jaguars -- B-
It wasn't a very flashy draft, but it should yield a few starters. The key will be whether second-round running back Maurice Drew can be an every-down back.
New York Giants -- B-
I'm more excited about the second-round pick, wide receiver Sinorice Moss, than the first, defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka. The Giants took some chances.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- B-
The Bucs improved themselves, particularly in Rounds 2 through 5. But they reached a bit to take guard Davin Joseph in the first round.
Cincinnati Bengals -- C
They might have taken the best cornerback in the draft in Johnathan Joseph. The Bengals continue to gamble too much on players who are character risks.
Miami Dolphins -- C
Safety Jason Allen could be a star if he stays healthy. The team didn't get much after him, though enigmatic seventh-round defensive tackle Rodrique Wright has the ability of a much higher pick.
Minnesota Vikings -- C
Outside linebacker Chad Greenway should help, but the Vikings probably could have gotten center Ryan Cook and QB Tarvaris Jackson much later than the second round.
Tennessee Titans -- C
The Titans should have taken Matt Leinart, who would have fit well with their offense. They also took a big risk on running back LenDale White in the second round.
Washington Redskins -- C
There weren't many picks to work with, but the Redskins did OK getting outside linebacker Rocky McIntosh in the second. Safety Reed Doughty in the sixth was a nice sleeper pick.
Denver Broncos -- D
The trade for wide receiver Javon Walker was smart. But they paid too much to get QB Jay Cutler, especially because they need players who can help now.
Houston Texans -- D
The Texans really should have taken RB Reggie Bush or QB Matt Leinart with the first overall selection instead of defensive end Mario Williams.
Green Bay Packers -- A+
With linebackers A.J. Hawk and Abdul Hodge, the Packers have the beginnings of a defense that could dominate the NFC North for years.
Arizona Cardinals -- A
QB Matt Leinart at No. 10 was one of the best value picks because he had the pedigree to be chosen first. The Cardinals got value with each selection.
Philadelphia Eagles -- A
The Eagles got defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley and didn't have to move up. They get high value marks for offensive tackle Winston Justice, guard Max Jean-Gilles and wide receiver Jason Avant.
Baltimore Ravens -- A-
Typical Ravens draft, as they'll get multiple starters. One of the best picks of the weekend was wide receiver Demetrius Williams in the fourth round.
New Orleans Saints -- A-
The Saints were smart to take running back Reggie Bush even though they don't need him. Their other picks were OK, though wide receivers Mike Hass and Marques Colston have potential.
Buffalo Bills -- B+
I'd like to beat up the Bills for reaching on safety Donte Whitner, but they redeemed themselves with picks such as defensive tackle John McCargo, cornerback Ashton Youboty and defensive tackle Kyle Williams.
Cleveland Browns -- B+
This was a need-driven draft, and the Browns filled their holes. They got decent value throughout the draft.
New York Jets -- B+
The Jets reeled in arguably the two best offensive linemen in the draft. They can be second-guessed for passing on QB Matt Leinart and overdrafting LB Anthony Schlegel.
Oakland Raiders -- B+
This was a solid draft throughout, with the best value probably being safety Darnell Bing in the fourth round.
St. Louis Rams -- B+
The roster is considerably more talented than it was a week ago. Defensive tackle Claude Wroten is a wonderful player, but he was a risk in the third because of character.
San Francisco 49ers -- B+
Taking DE Manny Lawson in the first was high in my book, but it was in line with a lot of draft boards. Tight end Vernon Davis should be a star.
Atlanta Falcons -- B
Getting cornerback Jimmy Williams in the second round was a nice move. If you considered defensive end John Abraham as part of the draft, the Falcons would get a higher grade.
Carolina Panthers -- B
The Panthers had a decent first-day haul. Running back DeAngelo Williams and cornerback Richard Marshall should be able to contribute this year.
Dallas Cowboys -- B
Looks like another solid draft for the Cowboys. Taking outside linebacker Bobby Carpenter in the first round should complete the transition to the 3-4 defense.
Detroit Lions -- B
The Lions' recent classes have looked better on draft day than during the season, but there isn't much to dislike about whom they took.
Kansas City Chiefs -- B
The defensive rebuilding continues, but the offense might be starting to crumble soon. That's why the Chiefs took QB Brodie Croyle in the third round.
New England Patriots -- B
The Patriots nicely filled needs with their early picks, but my favorite selections were tight ends Dave Thomas and Garrett Mills in the third and fourth rounds.
Pittsburgh Steelers -- B
The Steelers didn't draft until 25th but still ended up with the highest-rated receiver (Santonio Holmes). All in all, it was another solid draft.
San Diego Chargers -- B
The Chargers are rolling the dice with cornerback Antonio Cromartie. If offensive tackle Marcus McNeill stays healthy, he should be a starter soon. QB Charlie Whitehurst was a nice value pick.
Seattle Seahawks -- B
I liked their second-round pick (defensive end Darryl Tapp) better than their first (cornerback Kelly Jennings), but Seattle should have four starters out of this draft within two years.
Chicago Bears -- B-
Return men Danieal Manning and Devin Hester should provide immediate impact. My favorite pick: Defensive end Mark Anderson in the fifth.
Indianapolis Colts -- B-
In time, running back Joseph Addai should be a fine replacement for Edgerrin James. The Colts might have taken cornerback Tim Jennings and inside linebacker Freddie Keiaho higher than they had to.
Jacksonville Jaguars -- B-
It wasn't a very flashy draft, but it should yield a few starters. The key will be whether second-round running back Maurice Drew can be an every-down back.
New York Giants -- B-
I'm more excited about the second-round pick, wide receiver Sinorice Moss, than the first, defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka. The Giants took some chances.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- B-
The Bucs improved themselves, particularly in Rounds 2 through 5. But they reached a bit to take guard Davin Joseph in the first round.
Cincinnati Bengals -- C
They might have taken the best cornerback in the draft in Johnathan Joseph. The Bengals continue to gamble too much on players who are character risks.
Miami Dolphins -- C
Safety Jason Allen could be a star if he stays healthy. The team didn't get much after him, though enigmatic seventh-round defensive tackle Rodrique Wright has the ability of a much higher pick.
Minnesota Vikings -- C
Outside linebacker Chad Greenway should help, but the Vikings probably could have gotten center Ryan Cook and QB Tarvaris Jackson much later than the second round.
Tennessee Titans -- C
The Titans should have taken Matt Leinart, who would have fit well with their offense. They also took a big risk on running back LenDale White in the second round.
Washington Redskins -- C
There weren't many picks to work with, but the Redskins did OK getting outside linebacker Rocky McIntosh in the second. Safety Reed Doughty in the sixth was a nice sleeper pick.
Denver Broncos -- D
The trade for wide receiver Javon Walker was smart. But they paid too much to get QB Jay Cutler, especially because they need players who can help now.
Houston Texans -- D
The Texans really should have taken RB Reggie Bush or QB Matt Leinart with the first overall selection instead of defensive end Mario Williams.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
All your A+ are belong to us!
