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How do you feel about baseball this year? (2 Viewers)

Thoughts on MLB 2020

  • Can't wait for the season

    Votes: 28 11.9%

  • Still pretty excited for the season

    Votes: 46 19.5%

  • Apathetic about having a season or not

    Votes: 162 68.6%
  • Total voters
    236
fred_1_15301 said:
But that was inning 6 and as I said, he used to routinely pitch through 6 innings 
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The numbers say his decline was correlated with the 3rd time through the lineup, not a particular inning. Probably related to declining in-game velocity and only a few go to pitches. 
 

I have seen a ton of people suggesting you need to get beat with your best, but I think they did that since several of these relievers had superior stats to Snell even ignoring the late game decline. I do think it’s fair to question whether Anderson’s “slump” should exclude him in this spot. 

 
The problem is Cash relied on the wrong set of analytics.

This year Mookie Betts hit .200 against lefties and .323 against righties. And he already had struck out twice against Snell in this matchup. Certainly a small sample size for this year, but Snell should have most definitely pitched to Betts.

 
ChiefD said:
The problem is Cash relied on the wrong set of analytics.

This year Mookie Betts hit .200 against lefties and .323 against righties. And he already had struck out twice against Snell in this matchup. Certainly a small sample size for this year, but Snell should have most definitely pitched to Betts.
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Plus Snells PC was still quite low.   Cash still thinks he made the right move but I doubt he slept very well last night.

 
ChiefD said:
The problem is Cash relied on the wrong set of analytics.

This year Mookie Betts hit .200 against lefties and .323 against righties. And he already had struck out twice against Snell in this matchup. Certainly a small sample size for this year, but Snell should have most definitely pitched to Betts.
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Yes. And seager was on deck and Muncy due soon. Very bad decision making. 

 
Capella said:
Yea I agree, it sucks. Shame nobody could hit except Randy. Christ the guy had one of the greatest playoff runs ever and they still couldn’t score more than 3 a game. Imagine if he was just above-average. 
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Do you think the analytics played any part in their offensive struggles as well? Three true outcomes, and all that garbage.

They drove in more than half their runs on home runs, and struck out nearly 12 times a game on average.

Admittedly this has been a bone of contention for me forever, long before analytics (or computers, really) were a thing beyond Bill James’ books. It goes so against how I played the game, and I always hated how the the free-swinging guys on my teams always got the love. I just hate to think how some of the all-time greats we grew up watching would have been altered by the way the game is taught and played now.

Analytics are a good tool, but when you base your whole game and philosophy around them, you’ve gone too far.

 
I can’t hate on Cash though. He stretched this talent past the Yanks, Astros and took the Dodgers to 6. All the local fans this morning are of course up in flames but most fans are total idiots. It was a bad decision by a very good manager and hopefully they get another crack at it. Sucks this will define his career though, I think he’s truly excellent. I don’t think this is one your reputation comes back from though. 
 

And even if he left Snell in they were very unlikely to win the series. 

 
Dickie Dunn said:
Do you think the analytics played any part in their offensive struggles as well? Three true outcomes, and all that garbage.

They drove in more than half their runs on home runs, and struck out nearly 12 times a game on average.

Admittedly this has been a bone of contention for me forever, long before analytics (or computers, really) were a thing beyond Bill James’ books. It goes so against how I played the game, and I always hated how the the free-swinging guys on my teams always got the love. I just hate to think how some of the all-time greats we grew up watching would have been altered by the way the game is taught and played now.

Analytics are a good tool, but when you base your whole game and philosophy around them, you’ve gone too far.
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Yea I’m sure. I can’t speak to what they teach offensively really but they’ve been a reach for the seats team for a while now. But they’ve always been superbly disciplined while doing that — that slipped away this post-season and they were up there basically swinging with broomsticks.
 

I think the poor hitting with RISP was probably just bad luck. Lowe, Meadows and Adames slumping at the same time — what can you do? Physically this was basically June for them, players struggle during the season. 

 
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Capella said:
I can’t hate on Cash though. He stretched this talent past the Yanks, Astros and took the Dodgers to 6. All the local fans this morning are of course up in flames but most fans are total idiots. It was a bad decision by a very good manager and hopefully they get another crack at it. Sucks this will define his career though, I think he’s truly excellent. I don’t think this is one your reputation comes back from though. 
 

And even if he left Snell in they were very unlikely to win the series. 
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This is kind of how Roberts is also treated however I think you can be a good regular season manager (Roberts and possibly Cash) and be a terrible playoff manager (Roberts and probably Cash).   Roberts specifically doesn't realize that playoffs are different and it takes a change in managerial moves over what you do in the regular season.  Primarily that in a series your RP's lose effectiveness as the series progresses due to being used every day and allowing a team to see them multiple times over a short time frame.  So pulling SP early really stresses the pen and gives the other team multiple opportunities to see a pitcher (which as analytics shows the more you see a guy the better the offense typically gets).  So it may work in game 1 but by the time you get to game 6 and 7 after doing this every game you lose your RP advantage. 

You have to manage differently in the playoffs and I think a big portion of that difference is reading your team and the other team's emotions in game so it becomes a "gut" feel based on some analytics, some player reading, and some baseball feel from experience.   Going strict analytics that are based on the long haul can bite you in a short series.

This strict analytical approach not fitting great in a short series because it's based on the long haul probabilities might be why Billy Beane never got over the hump in the playoffs. 

 
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Capella said:
Yea I’m sure. I can’t speak to what they teach offensively really but they’ve been a reach for the seats team for a while now. But they’ve always been superbly disciplined while doing that — that slipped away this post-season and they were up there basically swinging with broomsticks.
 

I think the poor hitting with RISP was probably just bad luck. Lowe, Meadows and Adames slumping at the same time — what can you do? Physically this was basically June for them, players struggle during the season. 
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It's not really bad luck as much as the law of averages.  Baseball is a long season and the stats are geared towards averaging out hot streaks and low points.  If you get stuck in a low point in the World Series you are screwed because you don't have time for it to even out.   Dodgers may never score another two out run because they used them all up in this series and it has to even out over time. 

 
Gally said:
It's not really bad luck as much as the law of averages.  Baseball is a long season and the stats are geared towards averaging out hot streaks and low points.  If you get stuck in a low point in the World Series you are screwed because you don't have time for it to even out.   Dodgers may never score another two out run because they used them all up in this series and it has to even out over time. 
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Yes, I said this time and time to my friends — the dodgers two outs two strikes thing can’t possibly continue but those wins are already banked so it likely doesn’t matter. 

 
Capella said:
Yes, I said this time and time to my friends — the dodgers two outs two strikes thing can’t possibly continue but those wins are already banked so it likely doesn’t matter. 
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Which is why going solely on analytics in a series will backfire more often than in the regular season.  Small sample size so the backfires stand out so much more and you cannot recover from them much of the time.  By the time the analytics catches up the series is over and you are sitting on the coach watching the next teams play.  

 
Gally said:
This is kind of how Roberts is also treated however I think you can be a good regular season manager (Roberts and possibly Cash) and be a terrible playoff manager (Roberts and probably Cash).   Roberts specifically doesn't realize that playoffs are different and it takes a change in managerial moves over what you do in the regular season.  Primarily that in a series your RP's lose effectiveness as the series progresses due to being used every day and allowing a team to see them multiple times over a short time frame.  So pulling SP early really stresses the pen and gives the other team multiple opportunities to see a pitcher (which as analytics shows the more you see a guy the better the offense typically gets).  So it may work in game 1 but by the time you get to game 6 and 7 after doing this every game you lose your RP advantage. 

You have to manage differently in the playoffs and I think a big portion of that difference is reading your team and the other team's emotions in game so it becomes a "gut" feel based on some analytics, some player reading, and some baseball feel from experience.   Going strict analytics that are based on the long haul can bite you in a short series.

This strict analytical approach not fitting great in a short series because it's based on the long haul probabilities might be why Billy Beane never got over the hump in the playoffs. 
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Well the Dodger relievers didn’t have a drop off in game 6, even though the Rays saw all of them 4-5 times. Pitchers will not have it every day. When they do you ride it. Can’t believe they pulled Snell when he was still unhittable and had the 1-4 hitters 0-8 with 7 strikeouts. I would not be afraid of them seeing Snell a 3rd time. He made them look silly all night. It was just a bad decision.  
I think bullpen coaches and game catchers have to be very quick in motioning if someone is on or not. They know quickly. 
Some really good takes here.  Playoffs are different. Not all managers translate regular season success to playoffs. But it’s the easiest coaching job to 2nd guess. Every decision is magnified. And it’s ultimately still on the player to execute. Can’t pitch or hit for them. 

 
ChiefD said:
The problem is Cash relied on the wrong set of analytics.

This year Mookie Betts hit .200 against lefties and .323 against righties. And he already had struck out twice against Snell in this matchup. Certainly a small sample size for this year, but Snell should have most definitely pitched to Betts.
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Why would you be more interested in how he did over 2-3 months than how he has hit his whole career on splits? Even if I agreed, bring in a different lefty if you think Snell is spent and about to get hit. 

 
Gally said:
Don't forget the worst team to win the WS ever and those 1988 Dodgers.....they had no business winning that WS and I still think Gibson deserved to win the MVP for that one AB alone!
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Orel Hershiser pitched a shutout. Went 3-3 had a run and an rbi. 

Then pitched another complete game.

That guy wasnt getting denied a WS in 1988. Zero doubt in my mind he would have hurled game 7 if he had to. 

 
Gally said:
This strict analytical approach not fitting great in a short series because it's based on the long haul probabilities might be why Billy Beane never got over the hump in the playoffs. 
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It's funny, because I was fascinated with Moneyball (the book) when it came out. It's still one of the rare books that I still grab on a regular basis and read a chapter or two just to refresh my memory of something.

I particularly loved the fact they were taking the "anti-scouting" type of approach to find players who don't fit "molds," because selfishly that pretty much described me when I was playing and I had other teammates that went on to play in college and the minors.

But now looking back all these years later, I can see how their approach gave them blinders to a lot of things. I've had the argument with people, because I completely get that it was financially driven. But what really sticks out to me was Beane's insistence in avoiding HS players. And at one point he drew up a list of the top 20 players he would draft "in an ideal world" in which money or competition didn't matter. Except that his "ideal" list didn't include the likes of Zack Greinke, Prince Fielder, Joe Saunders, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain or Scott Kazmir (all who became all-stars), or even James Loney, Denard Span or Jeff Francoeur.

And they made a list of eight college hitters -- all of whom they drafted, based on their on-base abilities in college. Only one -- John Baker -- got more than 10 MLB at-bats.

Granted, drafting is an inexact science, but I think that 2002 draft was a real eye-opener ... and not in the way it initially was portrayed in Moneyball.

 
Turner had been instructed by MLB security not to leave the clubhouse, but he refused, went onto the field, took pictures holding the trophy, hugged teammates, and even was in the front row of the team picture, with no mask, sitting alongside manager Dave Roberts, a cancer survivor.
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lot going on in this paragraph 

 
So, how many games will Turner be suspended for at the beginning of next season?   He's a free agent and there's  been a lot of talk about the Dodgers not re-signing him.   If he's out for 20 or so games,  a 35-year old third baseman may have a tougher time finding a landing spot.

 
-fish- said:
So, how many games will Turner be suspended for at the beginning of next season?   He's a free agent and there's  been a lot of talk about the Dodgers not re-signing him.   If he's out for 20 or so games,  a 35-year old third baseman may have a tougher time finding a landing spot.
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I think (HOPE)  he’s back 

There will be a DH next year but he can still play defense 

and just a fine imo

 
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Gally said:
Hershiser was outstanding but they don't win that series without that Homerun.  That set the tone and punched the much more talented A's right in the face and knocked them out.  I completely agree they aren't even in the WS without Hershiser and in reality the MVP was going to go to him because they couldn't give it to a guy with only one AB but they don't win that series without it. 
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Gibson’s HR would have meant nothing if Hershiser hadn’t followed it up with a 3-hit shutout of the best hitting team in baseball that season, equaling the three hits he allowed by getting three hits of his own. The A’s would have seen it as a fluke win and had all the momentum back when they go up 2 games to 1. Gibson shocked the A’s and then Hershiser took their confidence. And then he came back with another complete game in the deciding G5. And let’s not forget his complete game shutout in G7 of the NLCS. I believe Hershiser has a 0.42 ERA in his last 11 games started in 1988. It’s something close to that.

 
Shrugs said:
Gibson’s HR would have meant nothing if Hershiser hadn’t followed it up with a 3-hit shutout of the best hitting team in baseball that season, equaling the three hits he allowed by getting three hits of his own. The A’s would have seen it as a fluke win and had all the momentum back when they go up 2 games to 1. Gibson shocked the A’s and then Hershiser took their confidence. And then he came back with another complete game in the deciding G5. And let’s not forget his complete game shutout in G7 of the NLCS. I believe Hershiser has a 0.42 ERA in his last 11 games started in 1988. It’s something close to that.
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Dude was a monster in '88.

 
Shrugs said:
Gibson’s HR would have meant nothing if Hershiser hadn’t followed it up with a 3-hit shutout of the best hitting team in baseball that season, equaling the three hits he allowed by getting three hits of his own. The A’s would have seen it as a fluke win and had all the momentum back when they go up 2 games to 1. Gibson shocked the A’s and then Hershiser took their confidence. And then he came back with another complete game in the deciding G5. And let’s not forget his complete game shutout in G7 of the NLCS. I believe Hershiser has a 0.42 ERA in his last 11 games started in 1988. It’s something close to that.
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My favorite thing about that NLCS is that Hershiser got the save in game 4. You know because he only went 7 innings in game 3. And only went 8.1 in game 1. Then CG in game 7. Then CG of game 2 in world series. Then another CG. Thats insane. 

I was at game 2. Was awesome. 

 
Dan Lambskin said:
Can’t believe the Rays pulled Snell
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@JeffPassan: The prospective deal that would send Blake Snell to San Diego would be centered around top pitching prospect Luis Patiño, sources tell ESPN. Also in the deal, as @dennistlin reported, would be catcher Francisco Mejia, pitcher Cole Wilcox and Blake Hunt, a young catcher.

@RichardStaff: If they didn't even let Blake Snell stay past the fifth inning, why would anyone assume the Rays would let him stay past his fifth year?

 
@BNightengale: The #Cubs and #Padres progressing in the final stages of the Yu Darvish trade. All expectations are that it will be finalized tonight.

 
Lindor to the Mets along with Carlos Carrasco. Gimenez and Rosario going to Cleveland along with a couple good but not top prospects. 

Love this for the Mets of course. Rosario just hasn't shown the tools that were expected of a #1 overall prospect type. Gimenez was great last year and surpassed expectations, especially with his bat, but I think this was a good time to cash in. He'll be a very solid SS for a long time I believe. 

Now time for Uncle Stevie to sign Lindor to an extension. 

 
The Z Machine said:
It's dumb.  Always has been. Always will be. It's a perversion of the game. 
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It now represents 30 careers that happen instead of just 15 in the AL. 

It was a matter of time. Watching pitchers try to hit or bunt in this day and age is painful. Just painful. I have no problem with the move now. 

Growing up though......NL pitchers actually cared about how well they could bunt. today players don’t even know what a bunt is anymore. Let alone trying to hit hard groundballs the other way or be a line drive hitter.

The game has changed a lot. And a lot of it not for the better. Too many strikeouts. Way too many hitters who really don’t hit. They simply try to hit bombs.....every single time. Sucks.

I mean supposed MLB hitters completely incapable of hitting against the shift.....can't use the other 2/3 of the field. It’s pathetic. 

#oldschool70’s/80’s/90’s baseball

#thankgodforDJLeMahieu 

 
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Todem said:
It now represents 30 careers that happen instead of just 15 in the AL. 

It was a matter of time. Watching pitchers try to hit or bunt in this day and age is painful. Just painful. I have no problem with the move now. 

Growing up though......NL pitchers actually cared about how well they could bunt. today players don’t even know what a bunt is anymore. Let alone trying to hit hard groundballs the other way or be a line drive hitter.

The game has changed a lot. And a lot of it not for the better. Too many strikeouts. Way too many hitters who really don’t hit. They simply try to hit bombs.....every single time. Sucks.

I mean supposed MLB hitters completely incapable of hitting against the shift.....can't use the other 2/3 of the field. It’s pathetic. 

#oldschool70’s/80’s/90’s baseball

#thankgodforDJLeMahieu 
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I rarely watch anymore

 
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