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watching those runs from Football Hall of Famer Barry Sanders!!!!! Thanks for the memories Sir!!!!!!!!!
Sorry..I don't see it that way. Overall I think that NFL stats are a zero sum game, therefore if somebody goes up...somebody else must get knocked down. This game provides a too perfect example where Portis has been assessed based on his stats in one system that is now working to someone elses benefit. If that system is so good then projections for him need to be tempered by the fact that he has never performed outside it.As has been said, this is way too premature. However, this thought process is the one that I will go through while watching all the preseason games and I think it is sound until a better argument comes along.
I'll say this, I remember when TD was a rookie and I wasn't nearly as involved in FF at that time. No internet access, no footballguys. I remember seeing him in the preseason and not knowing anything about him at all (college or NFL camps). I also remember telling people about this guy at work the next day after the preseason games. "Hey, did you see this Davis guy"Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I just looked it up. TD had 1 carry for ZERO yards his first preseason game. Then the second was't much better. But the 3rd game he was 10 carries for 73 yards.And taht was against the 1995 Cowboys so I'm sure that was the game I saw. Being that all the Dallas games are televised in Houston.
Hey Houston,And for every TD there are countless preseason studs who do nothing. Damien Anderson led the NFL (or was darn close to it) in rushing last preseason, and he got ZERO carries for the Cardinals.I'll say this, I remember when TD was a rookie and I wasn't nearly as involved in FF at that time. No internet access, no footballguys. I remember seeing him in the preseason and not knowing anything about him at all (college or NFL camps). I also remember telling people about this guy at work the next day after the preseason games. "Hey, did you see this Davis guy"Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I'll have to go back and check what he did as a rookie in preseason to make sure this is accurate information but I seem to remember him having some good runs in the preseason.
Not to say Q-dog is TD but it shows at preseason isn't mealingless either. But I understand that preseason sucess doesn't mean he'll run for 1,400 yards either. I do, however, believe Griffin has the ability to help Denver make the play-offs this season. I believe he'll make Shanny look good in making the trade Portis/Bailey.
Against a weak defensive line, one of the worst in the NFL right now, I would assume. Although I think Griffin won't have too many problems sniffing out the endzone, I'm not going to make a big deal out of one play.
One thing to remember, Anderson was the 3rd string RB in Arizona. He had no chance to start over Smith and Shipp. He may get some carries this season and I'm not going to say that he can't be a succeed either.You should know, it's all about opportunity. If Griffin gets the chance, and he will barring injury. He's be successful in the NFL.Hey Houston,And for every TD there are countless preseason studs who do nothing. Damien Anderson led the NFL (or was darn close to it) in rushing last preseason, and he got ZERO carries for the Cardinals.I'll say this, I remember when TD was a rookie and I wasn't nearly as involved in FF at that time. No internet access, no footballguys. I remember seeing him in the preseason and not knowing anything about him at all (college or NFL camps). I also remember telling people about this guy at work the next day after the preseason games. "Hey, did you see this Davis guy"Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I'll have to go back and check what he did as a rookie in preseason to make sure this is accurate information but I seem to remember him having some good runs in the preseason.
Not to say Q-dog is TD but it shows at preseason isn't mealingless either. But I understand that preseason sucess doesn't mean he'll run for 1,400 yards either. I do, however, believe Griffin has the ability to help Denver make the play-offs this season. I believe he'll make Shanny look good in making the trade Portis/Bailey.
I'm not saying Q-Dog didn't look good tonight, nor am I saying he can't be the Broncos go-to back...in fact, I boosted his ranking considerably in the latest rankings just published to the site.
That said, what happens if Q-Dog gets stuffed next week? Is everyone going to bounce him back down? What happens if Tatum Bell gets carries with the first team offense in the 3rd game and lights it up? Then what?
We need to see training camp and the preseason games progress a bit more. I know everyone is absolutely fiending for some good news after the deluge of depressing injuries and retirements in the early part of camp, but we shouldn't overreact positively or negatively to one portion of one preseason quarter in early August.
That I can buy. Once the preseason games start it seems that all the prospects get a bump while the everyone else stands pat. That just cant happen. I prefer to go into the season with a maximum number of total points to allocate. The total can be adjusted slightly 5% or so. This approach forces you to think critcally.
We agree...as you know I often harp on Ability and Opportunity. When those two things are present, fantasy success will follow. What I'm saying is, sure Q-Dog appears to have opportunity and isn't lacking in ability, but don't make that conclusion based on a few carries in the Hall of Fame Classic. Base that on his competition, commentary by the coaching staff, who's taking reps with the first team offense in camp, and the player's pedigree.If you thought Q-Dog would be the guy before tonight, nothing has changed. If you were unsure, I wouldn't change the uncertainty because we have a lot of football left to play; that's all I'm asking people to remember.One thing to remember, Anderson was the 3rd string RB in Arizona. He had no chance to strat over Smith and Shipp. He may get some carries this season and I'm not going to say that he can't suceed either.You should know, it's all about opportunity. If Griffin gets the chance, and he will barring injury. He's be successful in the NFL.Hey Houston,And for every TD there are countless preseason studs who do nothing. Damien Anderson led the NFL (or was darn close to it) in rushing last preseason, and he got ZERO carries for the Cardinals.I'll say this, I remember when TD was a rookie and I wasn't nearly as involved in FF at that time. No internet access, no footballguys. I remember seeing him in the preseason and not knowing anything about him at all (college or NFL camps). I also remember telling people about this guy at work the next day after the preseason games. "Hey, did you see this Davis guy"Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I'll have to go back and check what he did as a rookie in preseason to make sure this is accurate information but I seem to remember him having some good runs in the preseason.
Not to say Q-dog is TD but it shows at preseason isn't mealingless either. But I understand that preseason sucess doesn't mean he'll run for 1,400 yards either. I do, however, believe Griffin has the ability to help Denver make the play-offs this season. I believe he'll make Shanny look good in making the trade Portis/Bailey.
I'm not saying Q-Dog didn't look good tonight, nor am I saying he can't be the Broncos go-to back...in fact, I boosted his ranking considerably in the latest rankings just published to the site.
That said, what happens if Q-Dog gets stuffed next week? Is everyone going to bounce him back down? What happens if Tatum Bell gets carries with the first team offense in the 3rd game and lights it up? Then what?
We need to see training camp and the preseason games progress a bit more. I know everyone is absolutely fiending for some good news after the deluge of depressing injuries and retirements in the early part of camp, but we shouldn't overreact positively or negatively to one portion of one preseason quarter in early August.
No doubt there. As soon as Griffin stumbles or gets the slightest ding, the "I told you so" will be rampat. Another example of this will be when Lee Suggs wins the job in Cleveland and they open against Baltimore. Baltimore kills him and Butch sits back and says "I told you so" Green is the man, lol. I can almost see Butch giving Suggs the rope and Ray Lewis the chair for Suggs to stand on.Griffin won't always have positive yards on a per carry basis but neither did Barry Sanders. He's no Barry but I think he's the closest thig to him we have in the NFL right now. I'm not saying this just cause Madden commented on it but it's been something we've discussed a little here and something about his size and style he ran in college.We agree...as you know I often harp on Ability and Opportunity. When those two things are present, fantasy success will follow. What I'm saying is, sure Q-Dog appears to have opportunity and isn't lacking in ability, but don't make that conclusion based on a few carries in the Hall of Fame Classic. Base that on his competition, commentary by the coaching staff, who's taking reps with the first team offense in camp, and the player's pedigree.If you thought Q-Dog would be the guy before tonight, nothing has changed. If you were unsure, I wouldn't change the uncertainty because we have a lot of football left to play; that's all I'm asking people to remember.One thing to remember, Anderson was the 3rd string RB in Arizona. He had no chance to strat over Smith and Shipp. He may get some carries this season and I'm not going to say that he can't suceed either.You should know, it's all about opportunity. If Griffin gets the chance, and he will barring injury. He's be successful in the NFL.Hey Houston,And for every TD there are countless preseason studs who do nothing. Damien Anderson led the NFL (or was darn close to it) in rushing last preseason, and he got ZERO carries for the Cardinals.I'll say this, I remember when TD was a rookie and I wasn't nearly as involved in FF at that time. No internet access, no footballguys. I remember seeing him in the preseason and not knowing anything about him at all (college or NFL camps). I also remember telling people about this guy at work the next day after the preseason games. "Hey, did you see this Davis guy"Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I'll have to go back and check what he did as a rookie in preseason to make sure this is accurate information but I seem to remember him having some good runs in the preseason.
Not to say Q-dog is TD but it shows at preseason isn't mealingless either. But I understand that preseason sucess doesn't mean he'll run for 1,400 yards either. I do, however, believe Griffin has the ability to help Denver make the play-offs this season. I believe he'll make Shanny look good in making the trade Portis/Bailey.
I'm not saying Q-Dog didn't look good tonight, nor am I saying he can't be the Broncos go-to back...in fact, I boosted his ranking considerably in the latest rankings just published to the site.
That said, what happens if Q-Dog gets stuffed next week? Is everyone going to bounce him back down? What happens if Tatum Bell gets carries with the first team offense in the 3rd game and lights it up? Then what?
We need to see training camp and the preseason games progress a bit more. I know everyone is absolutely fiending for some good news after the deluge of depressing injuries and retirements in the early part of camp, but we shouldn't overreact positively or negatively to one portion of one preseason quarter in early August.
How silly will it be if next game, Q-Dog goes 6 for 11 while Bell or Anderson break a long run for a touchdown...we're going to have a ton of "I told you sos" on both sides and that's pointless.
IF Q-Dog continues to play the way he did tonight, I agree with the notion that he'll get the nod from Shanny to be the go-to guy. If that becomes clear and is declared as such later in the preseason, I think you can start legitimately discussing the merits of Griffin as a 2nd/3rd rounder. Not before.
Ah, preseason, just like baseball in March - Hope springs eternal. Big Daddy, be careful. Guess you can only roll your eyes at everyone BUT staff.Hey Big Daddy,No reason for the rolleyes, and yes, I am openly discussing a difference in philosophy with anyone who thinks Griffin should be upgraded on this news, Joe and David included. You do realize that we staff are allowed to, and frequently do, disagree on certain players and situations right?Oh, the mighty Wood has spoken.Guys, all due respect, I'd expect better collectively of everyone. Upgrading someone who gets first team reps in the first preseason game? Not buying it. I'm not saying Q doesn't have the goods, but I'm not willing to determine that one a few carries early in a game against the Redskins...who knows how that defensive line is going to play this year, particularly in their first game together.
Never EVER overreact to preseason stats...let's see Q do this for oh, I don't know, at least another series or two in the 2nd game before we boost him up to a 2nd rounder.
All the best,
Woodrow
I was watching for him on blitz pickups and it looked like he dumped a LB who came free on the right side when Denver was 3rd and 7 in the redzone. That's the only one I noticed.
, but it doesn't get much more lopsided than that!Now we just have to figure out which one of the Denver RBs will get the majority of the carries, because the starting Denver RB is fantasy gold!! 
I haven't updated my projections lately. I still think Griffin isn't good enough to handle the full load. I think Anderson, Hearst, and Bell have enough talent to warrent some touches. It does look like Griffin could win the job early. I'm pretty down on the whole Denver offense. Rod Smith is still good, but not great. Lelie has been a bust so far, and I don't see a huge breakout. Chamberlain is a downgrade from Sharpe, but not too bad. Overall, I think Denver won't score as many points or run as many offensive plays as past years.
I agree with this overall, however, there have been many drafts before tonight's game. In those drafts, Griffin was drafted later than the 4th round, offering plenty of value. In fact, it wasn't long ago that Griffin was drafted 3rd Rb on his team. The guy has gotten very little love and many of the posters who supported Griffin were ripped or considered crazy for liking this guy.
I saw that - and I blame the OL, which played like crap.
Esp. when you consider Anderson looked even WORSE behind that line.
Well there are two versions...one version for the average Joe and another version for those who like Mathematics like me
I started working on it two years ago when I began asking myself why I very rarely lose at this game. I've been watching the same mistakes made over and over for the last 15 years and I can't believe nobody has caught onto the very simple idea...DON'T TAKE UNECESSARY RISKS in the early rounds. Anyhow, this thread isn't about my study. I just wanted to say I agree 100% with Unlucky's and Wimer's philosophy.
Lhucks,Before tonight Griffin wasn't considered a low pick. I can recall your comments in the staff survivor league and someone picked griffin, I think chase pretty late and you called it a wasted pick. So you were down and out on Griffin from day one, to me you're just changing your angle on saying Griffin is no good.I'd like to hear it now, again, if someone picked Griffin in the 8th round or so a month ago, would you consider that a wasted pick?Also, keep in mind everyone that Shanny all along has said Q is the starter. Everyone thought it was a smoke screen, mind games, whatever. Maybe, just maybe he sees in practice everyday just what this guy can do. What Q brings to the offense that the other RB's can't.I haven't heard Shanny say that Bell, Anderson, or Hearst are the starters. I've heard him say Q. Griffin is the starter and he played like he was the best tonight.Well there are two versions...one version for the average Joe and another version for those who like Mathematics like me
Don't worry, we have plenty of threads around here on this topic as this was a hot topic the past few months.What Jason Wood says is correct. If Q goes 6 carries for 11 yards next time out and someone else busts one or looks strong running the ball, this thread gets brought up and the "I told you so" posts start flying. Then in preseason week 4 Griffin rips a 40 yard run and the Q side starts up.I know it's the first game of the year, so we should be excited. The sharks have tasted blood for the first time of the season. Just remember that things do change quickly in this game.All of a sudden everyone jumps on the Q bandwagon
You missed the point - Pony Boy stated (essentially) that the line looked like crap b/c their best back wasn't out there (I assume he calls that Bell). Unfortunately, Pony had pointed to 4 of Griffin's 9 runs running into a wall for no gain as an examnple of his point.My belief is the poor OL play, not the back behind the line, was the reason for the 4 of 9 hits into a wall. As further proof, I show you Mike Anderson's performance.I say that Griffin is going to be the man behind that line - for good or ill - unless Bell comes out the next three weeks and is INsane.Since this exercise is to predict the Broncos main back/opening day starter, only a blind fool would continue to disagree that Griffin is currently the Broncos best back, with only the unknown x-factor of Bell potentially unseating him or that Shannie will hesitate to use Griffin 20-25 times a game. Plus, Griffin showed excellent ability to chew up yardage on swing out passes.It is eminently clear to me from TC reports and this game that Shannie has every confidence to run with Griffin this year as the feature. I continue to question whether Griffin will hold up. I continue to have doubts about his ability to hold off a healthy Bell. I continue to question whether Griffin as opening day starter will be 4th game - or 8th game - starter.But, if I were drafting tomorrow, I would be taking Griffin as the Broncos starter and handcuffing only Bell to him - barring injury to Griffin, no back on the roster other than Bell will unseat Griffin as the Broncos starter.
Not everyone is excited about his stats. Some of us are excited about his quickness, vision, burst through the hole, cutting ability, and balance.
I gotta back Jason Wood up on that point -- this staff is not monolithic in structure, and there aren't reprisals for taking a non-party line -- Jason and I have been analyzing the Denver situation all throughout pre-season: Tatum Bell Face-off
, was not the impetus for my ranking of Griffin). I've been on the Griffin "bandwagon" (a pretty lonely bandwagon up until 8/9/04, may I add) from day one this season, and if he does well, I'll have some (limited) creds to crow about the next time I see Jason. Of course, Jason's analysis all preceded the badly broken finger that Bell suffered, so he's at a disadvantage regarding the texts cited above. His opinion would (is) be different given current reality, you can be sure.
One guy is so absurdly biased against Griffin that I will always take his opinion, now, with a very large grain of salt...the size of Gibralter.One guy backtracked.Another guy has it all figured out.Instead of avatars, I would love to know the college affiliation/love and/or the region from which each poster is from. It would help me make more sense of posts.The nickname Q is gay...but, the nickname Qdog is certifiably gay. Are you listening JLew/JLo wannabes? Oh, and two guys think they are God.Carry on...
