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How Much Does Mask Hypocrisy Contribute To Vaccine Hesitancy? (9/20/21 21:34PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
VIDEO: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris call for nationwide mask mandate Aug 13, 2020

Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden on Thursday called on all governors to mandate mask wearing to slow the spread of the coronavirus that has killed more than 165,000 people in the United States. In his second day on the campaign trail with former rival and now running mate Kamala Harris by his side, Biden made the call for a nationwide mandate on masks after a virtual meeting with public health advisers in his hometown of Wilmington, Delaware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXq5thXpZI

VIDEO: Kamala Harris Says Mask Mandate Would Save Lives Aug 13, 2020

Aug.13 -- Senator Kamla Harris, Joe Biden's Democratic running mate, says a face mask mandate will save lives. She spoke with Biden today in Wilmington, Delaware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HDWD_YMpU4

DIRECT HEADLINE: 14 prominent Democrats stand accused of hypocrisy for ignoring COVID-19 restrictions they're urging their constituents to obey

Grace Panetta 9/20/21

Over a dozen prominent Democratic elected officials have been accused of hypocrisy after flouting official guidance for containing COVID-19.

https://www.businessinsider.com/democratic-politicians-who-violated-covid-19-rules-guidance-list-2020-12

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Main Topic Question: How Much Does Mask Hypocrisy By Elected Officials From The Current Party in Power Contribute To Vaccine Hesitancy?

Let's unpack this.

- Joe Biden and Kamala Harris call for a nation wide mask mandate that they say will save lives.

- Biden signs a mask mandate then immediately goes off with his family maskless in open contradiction to what he just signed.

- Barack Obama, former POTUS, is seen at his birthday party that is a large gathering of hundreds where he is seen maskless and not socially distanced. The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked.

- Anthony Fauci, the face of science, is caught maskless at a baseball game. He is on record flip flopping about masking on multiple levels ( no mask, mask aren't effective, they are effective, double mask, everyone masks, it's too hard to keep track of his lies and back tracking)

- Nancy Pelosi's "nephew" Gavin Newsom locks down the state of California, including Pelosi's district. No one can earn a living doing hair except for Pelosi's hair who is caught maskless. She is also caught in a mass fundraising event with maskless donors ( some paying up to 29K for their breakfast, the rank and file American citizens working the event were masked. ) and forced to backtrack on a mass HOR event after threatening to fine anyone in the HOR who shows up maskless.

- SF Mayor London Breed is caught maskless without being socially distanced and defends herself saying no one should "fun police" her and then points out it's more important that musical artists Tony! Toni! Tone! haven't played live in a couple of decades.  The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked.

- Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot, running a city into the ground where bloodshed is rampant, is caught on photo getting her hair done while maskless thus defying her own orders. She is also seen maskless celebrating the Biden/Harris election result in public in a large crowd where there is no social distancing at all.

- DC Mayor Muriel Bowser is seen maskless and not socially distanced at a social event, in contradiction to her city mandates, but she desperately wanted a photo op with Dave Chappelle. Maybe she thought Wayne Brady would show up and choke her if she didn't make that happen immediately?  The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked.

- CA Governor Gavin Newsom is caught at an expensive exclusive indoor restaurant where he is not masked and not socially distanced, defying is own state orders, and the business in question got 17 times the average PPP funding of any restaurant in his state.  The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked. He also kept his winery open but locked down others and put his kids in active expensive private schools while regular Californians watched their own children hang in limbo. He also found time to bang another Staffer ( again in his political career) and took PG&E blood money to ignore the wildfires that killed Californians. When confronted about the blood money on camera and video, Newsom smiled and laughed.

- MI Governor Gretchen Whitmer locked down her state, to the point where some of her own citizens wanted her bumped off, and stood in the deep pockets of Big Medicine/Big Pharma and was caught maskless against her own state orders. The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked.

- RI Governor Gina Raimondo told her constituents to stay home unless it was "essential"  She felt it was essential to defy her own orders to get caught maskless at a wine and art bar. The rank and file American citizens working the event were masked.

- SJ Mayor Sam Liccardo, the DNC's Chosen One to watch over Big Social Media, defies his own orders because his own Thanksgiving is more important than the serfs that pay his salary and voted for him. And even the ones who didn't vote for him.

- Texas Democrats avoid their duty to vote, their actual job, and are caught with photos showing them maskless, smiling and loaded with alcohol.

Point to note, through the pandemic, because of the lockdowns, many people could not see their sick and ailing family members in hospitals and nursing homes. These suffering people had to "follow the rules" but not our elected officials?

Why should anyone, on either side of the aisle, wear a mask and/or take the vaccine, if you keep hearing that masks save lives and vaccines save lives and social distancing save lives, but the elected officials in power don't behave with integrity in consideration of their own rules.

You can't lie to people and show hypocrisy and have them trust you. Why should those who are unvaccinated now trust elected officials who say getting the vaccine and wearing a mask and social distancing is the right decision?

This isn't complicated - Change the rules to line up with your own behavior so EVERYONE can engage in that same behavior or simply FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES.

( This is the point where the personal attacks and "Whataboutism" will start. If someone wants to start a new thread about hypocrisy and the pandemic regarding the "other Party", then go ahead. But that's not the basis of what I'm talking about right now in this thread. Pointing your bloody fingers about someone else's complicity and guilt doesn't wash away the blood from your own hands.  )

One of the stated reasons for those who are hesitant to take the vaccine is they "don't trust the government"  What exactly has the Party in power done to help show good faith and integrity to the American people and the people in their own states, cities and districts?

Should these hypocritical Democrats be blamed for ALL vaccine hesitancy currently? No.

Should these hypocritical Democrats be blamed for ZERO vaccine hesitancy currently? No.

With great power comes great responsibility. Uncle Ben knew better, but these Democratic power brokers do not. The question then becomes just how much does this hypocrisy, particularly with masks, contributes to national vaccine hesitancy, which contributes to the death count and the misery and suffering of the American people at large during this pandemic?

Anyone who wants to come get a piece of me is free to step right up. Come and get some. Come get all of it.

Discuss.

 
CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL -  Mask Hypocrisy Of Democratic Power Hitters

VIDEO: Biden mask hypocrite from DAY ONE? Jan 22, 2021

President Joe Biden signed an executive order after his inauguration compelling everyone on federal land to wear a mask. Hours later he takes a photo at the Lincoln memorial with his family. And in a true sign of "Politics as usual" none of them are wearing a mask. A reporter asks White House press secretary Jen Psaki why he's contravening his own laws... she says "we have bigger issues to worry about".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrenXZ7QPbc

VIDEO: Watch the INSANE Hypocrisy of Obama’s Maskless Birthday Bash Aug 9, 2021

Former President Barack Obama celebrated his 60th birthday with a gigantic party a few days ago. This is an important reminder that the elite do not have to follow the same rules you do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWpqLo9EBLA

VIDEO: Tucker: Dr. Fauci seems to forget masks are important Jul 24, 2020

Masks for thee, but not for me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdOSFbmyF_w

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CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL -  Mask Hypocrisy Of Nancy Pelosi, 2nd In Line Of Succession To POTUS

VIDEO: Nancy Pelosi Gets Heat for Unmasked Hair Salon Visit Sep 2, 2020

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is coming under fire today after a video showed her inside a San Francisco hair salon without wearing a face mask. Pelosi was captured on surveillance footage with wet hair walking inside the salon, despite local ordinances prohibiting hairdressers from seeing clients indoors right now. The owner said she rents out chairs to several independent stylists, and did not like what she saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndafeJrHYGA

VIDEO: Nancy Pelosi torched for swanky maskless Napa Valley fundraiser Aug 23, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTKaYh2Vu1Y

VIDEO: Nancy Pelosi threatening to fine House members following CDC guidelines May 14, 2021

Rep. Brian Mast, R-Fla., challenged the Speaker's rule saying it is 'pure manipulation' on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5DNPZOtGpY

DIRECT HEADLINE: Pelosi reversal on Capitol dinner shows perils for Democrats in coronavirus era

The Capitol is set up for a dinner Friday to welcome the newly elected Democratic members of the House. The event was canceled after a backlash. (J. Scott Applewhite/AP)

By Rachael Bade November 16, 2020 at 9:21 p.m. EST

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosi-dinner-reversal-coronavirus/2020/11/16/34f2305a-2825-11eb-9b14-ad872157ebc9_story.html

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CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL -  Mask Hypocrisy Of Democratic Mayors Breed, Lightfoot & Bowser

DIRECT HEADLINE: San Francisco mayor scolds 'fun police' after being criticized for flouting city's indoor mask mandate

By Devan Cole, CNN Updated 4:50 PM ET, Mon September 20, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/20/politics/london-breed-violating-san-francisco-mask-order/index.html

"Don't feel as though (any of) you have to be micromanaged about mask wearing. Like, we (elected officials) don't need the 'fun police' to come in and try ( to do it) and micromanage (our adherence to COVID19 public restrictions) and tell us (elected officials) what we should or shouldn't be doing. We (elected officials) know what we need to do to protect ourselves,"

"(Absolutely) No one has been more conservative (and diligent) about protecting themselves (from COVID19) than I have, not just because I want to set a (proper) example, but because I don't (actually) want to get (COVID19),"

VIDEO: San Francisco mayor spotted defying her own mask guidelines Sep 20, 2021

CNN's Brianna Keilar rolls the tape on San Francisco Mayor London Breed after she was spotted violating her own mask guidelines at a concert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7vOVpjbbT8

VIDEO: Mayor Lightfoot gets haircut amid social distancing orders Apr 6, 2020

Photos surfaced over the weekend showing the mayor after she got a haircut amid the state`s stay-at-home orders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_MyenCLkgM

DIRECT HEADLINE: Chicago mayor defends joining pro-Biden crowd amid COVID-19 surge

By Celine Castronuovo - 11/13/20 02:17 PM EST

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/525888-chicago-mayor-defends-joining-pro-biden-crowd-amid-covid-surge

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1327005768231526401

Such reckless behavior by the ( sitting Chicago) Mayor (Lori Lightfoot). Standing so close to people without a mask ( and without social distancing). (There is) absolutely no reason for (any of) it.

VIDEO: 'Smoking gun': DC mayor (Muriel Bowser) caught in photos maskless at a wedding Aug 2, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVvoLQd7UqI

https://youtu.be/VVvoLQd7UqI?t=94

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CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL -  Mask Hypocrisy Of Democratic Governors Newsom, Whitmer and Raimondo

VIDEO: Photos emerge of controversial unmasked dinner attended by Gov. Gavin Newsom Nov 18, 2020

“The governor is supposed to set an example and this doesn’t help.” Experts say Gov. Newsom knows better and wouldn't advise the public to do what he did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5KKzQ7p5Ow

VIDEO: French Laundry received more than $2.4M in PPP funding intended for small businesses Dec 16, 2020

The luxury restaurant where Governor Gavin Newsom and San Francisco Mayor London Breed were notoriously spotted dining during a COVID-19 surge, reportedly received more than $2.4 million in PPP funding. That's 17x more than what the average Bay Area restaurant received.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV5_8LCfxtk

VIDEO: Whitmer called out after photo surfaces of her not following mask mandate May 24, 2021

Fox News contributor Charlie Hurt says it 'reveals her own contempt' for lockdowns she imposed on her citizens on 'The Evening Edit.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXnbl0yqdG4

DIRECT HEADLINE: Rhode Island Governor Tells Everyone To Stay Home, Goes To Wine Bar For Maskless ‘Paint’ Night

By Tristan Justice December 17, 2020

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/17/rhode-island-governor-tells-everyone-to-stay-home-goes-to-wine-bar-for-maskless-paint-night/

Rhode Island Democratic Govenor Gina Raimondo was caught (via photo being) maskless at a wine bar last week ( at the Barnaby’s Public House restaurant in Providence)  for a (social/leisure) wine and paint night (which sparked and provoked backlash)  after (she) encouraged (RI) residents to stay home.

“Please, stay home except for essential activities & (always) wear a mask anytime & (always) wear a mask anytime you’re with people you don’t live with,” ( Raimondo on her official Twitter account )

https://twitter.com/RestingTwitFace/status/1339565238509850624

Gina Raimondo....told her citizens to stay home (and) said they couldn't even go to a friends house for a visit ( of any kind). And this is (your RI Governor) all gussied up ( and dressed up to be social) at a wine bar, (completely) mask-free for a Xmas wine/art event. Why are (any of) you still listening to these (elected) people?

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CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL -  Mask Hypocrisy Of Democratic Influence On Big Social Media & Refusing To Vote On Bills

DIRECT HEADLINE: San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo apologizes for disregarding COVID-19 regulations on Thanksgiving

Tuesday, December 1, 2020

San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo issued an apology after news reports that he gathered with extended family for Thanksgiving, contrary to California COVID-19 rules limiting gatherings to no more than three separate households.

https://abc7news.com/san-jose-mayor-sam-liccardo-thanksgiving-santa-clara-county-coronavirus-apology/8418419/

VIDEO: 'Maskless With At Least One Case Of Lite Beer': Cornyn Castigates Texas Dems For Fleeing State Jul 13, 2021

On the Senate floor, Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) criticized Texas House Democrats for fleeing their home state to stop the passage of a controversial voting reform bill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmGMPSrNfh8

https://youtu.be/lmGMPSrNfh8?t=146

VIDEO: These Democrat officials went against their own Covid-19 guidance Dec 2, 2020

CNN's Brianna Keilar discusses the Democratic lawmakers under fire for not following the coronavirus guidelines they established.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knQPN03hLEQ

 
VIDEO: Democrat House leader Pelosi violates her own mask mandate, over and over again. Sep 23, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXJrNLDRwXs

VIDEO: Pelosi Announces House Mask Mandate | NBC News NOW Jul 30, 2020

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced a new mandatory mask policy requiring all members and staff to wear masks on the House floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh-2FfLRPis

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I don't actually have a problem with Pelosi having a mask mandate for the HOR. However she needs to set the example. Again and again and even just recently as of today, she keeps deciding when and where she should be in compliance or not.

What message does this send to the unvaccinated in America?

What it looks like is Pelosi is trying to instigate a partisan conflict to drive a political narrative and is tone deaf to how it looks to the actual American people out there struggling to survive.

If you don't lead by example, no one has any reason to trust you. If they don't trust you, when you say COVID19 is deadly and you need to get the jab, why should they listen to you?

 
Didn’t read hardly any of that, but I’m gonna guess 5% or less. Most of the people refusing to wear masks or be vaccinated would make those choices regardless, and are just looking to scapegoat someone.

 
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My bigger question is why are Trump supporters NOT getting the vax? 

If you think about it, Trump got the vax basically to the 1 yard line. Biden just got the hand off to the end zone. IMO, this is Trump's vax (not that any one person should take credit for it), but the research and speed to market is a product of the Trump administration.   You would think that Trump supporters would be lining up to take as proof that "their guy got the job done" and left aligned person should be shunning it, as every Democratic leader did leading up to the election b/c it was a product of the DT administration. 

I would guess it comes down to the "freedoms" (mostly R) vs "for the group" (mostly D) mindsets. But I would love to see an alternative reality where DT won and then we could see where the acceptance/refusal line would have fallen then.

(sorry to hijack) 

 
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Maybe, just maybe, it's Fox News opinion hosts pushing misinformation, GOP governors doing the same, GOP legislatures downplaying vaccinations, etc.?
wasn't every other MSM outlet, Biden, harris, Cuomo and every other D leader doing the same back in Nov? What changed? 🧐

 
My bigger question is why are Trump supporters NOT getting the vax? 

If you think about it, Trump got the vax basically to the 1 yard line. Biden just got the hand off to the end zone. IMO, this is Trump's vax (not that any one person should take credit for it), but the research and speed to market is a product of the Trump administration.   You would think that Trump supporters would be lining up to take as proof that "their guy got the job done" and left aligned person should be shunning it, as every Democratic leader did leading up to the election b/c it was a product of the DT administration. 

I would guess it comes down to the "freedoms" (mostly R) vs "for the group" (mostly D) mindsets. But I would love to see an alternative reality where DT won and then we could see where the acceptance/refusal line would have fallen then.

(sorry to hijack) 
Went a little too far with the bolded.   Yes, there were some that stupidly said that.  

IMO one important piece of the puzzle that you left out is that before we got to that point Trump lead the charge  for what, a year +, to help make this a political and "sides" issue - downplaying the virus, downplaying other mitigation strategies, pitting Red states vs. Blue states for $ and relief, etc..     I think this in combination of a clear distrust of the government and other factors point to answering your question.    

We will never know how it would have turned out if he had won.   My best guess is that there would've been a higher % overall getting the vaccinations, but like you said there were dummies on the left vocalizing they wouldn't take the vax b/c of Trump so who knows.   I think a lot would depend on his messaging about it.  

 
I live in NY....I got it daily from "America's Governor" alone. 
Um, that's a Dropbox link.  Your CTRL-V needs an update.  ;)

In any case, as an example, what's frequently attributed to Kamala Harris is not what she actually said.  Her exact words were:

If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely.  But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it. I’m not taking it.

 
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Went a little too far with the bolded.   Yes, there were some that stupidly said that.  

IMO one important piece of the puzzle that you left out is that before we got to that point Trump lead the charge  for what, a year +, to help make this a political and "sides" issue - downplaying the virus, downplaying other mitigation strategies, pitting Red states vs. Blue states for $ and relief, etc..     I think this in combination of a clear distrust of the government and other factors point to answering your question.    

We will never know how it would have turned out if he had won.   My best guess is that there would've been a higher % overall getting the vaccinations, but like you said there were dummies on the left vocalizing they wouldn't take the vax b/c of Trump so who knows.   I think a lot would depend on his messaging about it.  
As mentioned above, I live in NY, so I got to watch Cuomo do his press conferences every day and trust me there was just as much "big d!ck swinging" from his side as well. I can only speak for NY, but it was laughable when he would stand there and say "this is not about politics" but then would put out a NYS sponsored poster depicting how great NYS was in flattening the curve, and had him and his daughters (I mean really?) doing the work and had trump floating off in a hot air balloon in the corner. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. 

But I agree with your sentence after that...there is a very strong mistrust in Gov't overall. 

 
I would say zero.   Anti-vaxxers have been around long before mask mandates and is off the charts because of the amazing amount of misinformation on social media regarding covid and the vaccines.  

An observation I made last week:  I was in Disney World and the mask compliance indoors was in the 99.9% range.  Now either Disney does not attract the folks that rage against masks or these people are willing to wear a mask for Mickey Mouse but not for Uncle Sam.  Strange people

 
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I would say zero.   Anti-vaxxers have been around long before mask mandates and is off the charts because of the amazing amount of misinformation on social media regarding covid and the vaccines.  

An observation I made last week:  I was in Disney World and the mask compliance indoors was in the 99.9% range.  Now either Disney does not attract the folks that rage against masks or these people are willing to wear a mask for Mickey Mouse but not for Uncle Sam.  Strange people
In this case I would love to see the number of flat out Anti-vaxxers  vs Anti-THIS-Vaxxers. IMO I think the 2nd group would be much larger.

And I think thats contributing to some of the negative narrative and pushback. Most people I talk to who have not received the Covid vax, do have their children vaccinated with all the original vax's. But they are being lumped into the category of the those who deny vaccines all together. Again, we can debate it forever, but their stance is being skeptical of the timing of this vax vs the long history of effectiveness of those legacy vaxxes. 



And its funny, my in-laws were in WDW a few weeks ago and they cut their trip short to come home mainly b/cx they hated the mask wearing. They are vaxed but are also old and cranky people, so I could def see it. But TBH I get their point b/c everyone was told get the vax and you can ditch the mask...but thats not true anymore. 

 
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I would say zero.   Anti-vaxxers have been around long before mask mandates and is off the charts because of the amazing amount of misinformation on social media regaing covid and the vaccines.  
Do you think think the anti-vax levels we saw over the past year are representative of normal anti-vax levels?

 
But TBH I get their point b/c everyone was told get the vax and you can ditch the mask...but thats not true anymore.
This is just more of the same blaming of the wrong people.  What we were told was "vaxxed people can ditch the mask, unvaxxed people should (must) continue to wear masks".  Many of us, here and elsewhere, pointed out that the unvaxxed would largely lie about their vax status in order to stop wearing masks.  Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.  Some businesses, counties, states, etc. attempted to implement mandates where you show proof of vaccination in order to get out of wearing the mask, but got shouted down by the same anti-vax group.  Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths all went up, so, lacking another solution, we went back to masks for everyone.  If the clowns would just get vaxxed, it wouldn't have happened.

 
Do you think think the anti-vax levels we saw over the past year are representative of normal anti-vax levels?
No I think the distrust in this vaccine is at an all time level.  Hell there are still a fair amount of people that still think the pandemic is a hoax

 
This is just more of the same blaming of the wrong people.  What we were told was "vaxxed people can ditch the mask, unvaxxed people should (must) continue to wear masks".  Many of us, here and elsewhere, pointed out that the unvaxxed would largely lie about their vax status in order to stop wearing masks.  Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.  Some businesses, counties, states, etc. attempted to implement mandates where you show proof of vaccination in order to get out of wearing the mask, but got shouted down by the same anti-vax group.  Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths all went up, so, lacking another solution, we went back to masks for everyone.  If the clowns would just get vaxxed, it wouldn't have happened.
Youre right.  Something really needs to bring the minorities to the table

 
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No I think the distrust in this vaccine is at an all time level.  Hell there are still a fair amount of people that still think the pandemic is a hoax
Gotcha.   I think the same, but I was wondering how much this brought out the normal levels to the forefront and people that we normally don't hear about.   I feel like it's a totally different demographic on this anti-covid vax side this year than we usually see in the anti-vax side.  

 
My bigger question is why are Trump supporters NOT getting the vax? 


freedom is the answer

pro-vaxxers don't mind being told what to do, they shake their heads yessir and comply 

I still don't understand why vaccinated people care - they're vaccinated, they're not going to get covid or be really sick anyway. great compilation Gekko

 
freedom is the answer

pro-vaxxers don't mind being told what to do, they shake their heads yessir and comply 

I still don't understand why vaccinated people care - they're vaccinated, they're not going to get covid or be really sick anyway. great compilation Gekko


I care because it puts my grandkids at risk.  

 
This is just more of the same blaming of the wrong people.  What we were told was "vaxxed people can ditch the mask, unvaxxed people should (must) continue to wear masks".  Many of us, here and elsewhere, pointed out that the unvaxxed would largely lie about their vax status in order to stop wearing masks.  Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.  Some businesses, counties, states, etc. attempted to implement mandates where you show proof of vaccination in order to get out of wearing the mask, but got shouted down by the same anti-vax group.  Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths all went up, so, lacking another solution, we went back to masks for everyone.  If the clowns would just get vaxxed, it wouldn't have happened.
I know this isn't how you meant it, but this is why people like me see this as a "pox on both your houses" situation.  Anti-vaxxers are being stupid by not getting vaccinated.  Also, busy-bodies are being stupid by forcing vaccinated people to wear masks.  The fact that my neighbor doesn't keep his yard well-maintained is not a good reason for me to punch myself in the nuts.  That fact that our students are mostly not vaccinated is not a good reason for me to wear a mask.  I can't speak for everyone, but the decision to recommend mask-wearing for everybody, including people who are already super-well protected from covid-19, is the exact moment where I personally feel like we collectively lost the plot.

I mean this as more of an abstract observation.  Mask-wearing in my corner of the world is well under 20% and there's no sort of mandate anywhere except my doctor's office.  My state completely mangled its response to the pre-vaccine stage of the pandemic, but it's pretty much nailing it in the post-vaccine stage.

 
freedom is the answer

pro-vaxxers don't mind being told what to do, they shake their heads yessir and comply 

I still don't understand why vaccinated people care - they're vaccinated, they're not going to get covid or be really sick anyway. great compilation Gekko
Breakthrough infections happen. So your casual "whadda YOU care if I don't get vaxxed" is a ridiculous statement,  given that you have just raised the chances that you get infected, and then pass the infection on to others. Both of my parents are vaccinated and both have multiple comorbidities. Chances are that even if they end up with breakthrough infections,  they won't get very sick. 

But, if one of them ends up with pneumonia and wants to go to the hospital and gets turned away because the hospital is full of covid patients that refused to get vaccinated,  then one of my parents dies as a result, those that refused vaccination are the direct cause of my parent dying. The selfishness and ignorance are deadly. That's why I care.

 
that's interesting right there

question - do vaccinated people get covid virus, yes or no ?
Yes, of course they do.  Vaccinated people are quite a bit less likely to become infected with covid-19, but they're not completely immune.  Also, vaccinated people who become infected are extremely unlikely to end up in the hospital.  That second point hasn't been reported very well, but my understanding is that among breakthrough infections that result in hospitalization, the folks we're talking about are almost 100% either very old or quite sick from some underlying condition.  If you're not elderly and in reasonably okay health, you can rest assured that covid-19 is not going to land you in the ER.  If you're vaccinated.

That's the reason why I don't bother to wear a mask.  The probability of anything bad happening to me is already incredibly low.  The marginal benefit of masking is therefore vanishingly small.  

If I weren't vaccinated, I would be wearing a mask everywhere I go.  Just like I did for over a year.  

 
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Breakthrough infections happen. So your casual "whadda YOU care if I don't get vaxxed" is a ridiculous statement,  given that you have just raised the chances that you get infected, and then pass the infection on to others. Both of my parents are vaccinated and both have multiple comorbidities. Chances are that even if they end up with breakthrough infections,  they won't get very sick. 

But, if one of them ends up with pneumonia and wants to go to the hospital and gets turned away because the hospital is full of covid patients that refused to get vaccinated,  then one of my parents dies as a result, those that refused vaccination are the direct cause of my parent dying. The selfishness and ignorance are deadly. That's why I care.


There are no breakthrough infections - there are infections and vaccinated people are infected, a lot, you can see it everyday in the news. If we tested vaccinated people, you'd be stunned at how many have covid I bet

As for your hospital comment -  blame everyone for doing whatever they were doing (or didn't do) for being in hospitals ... that's an amazing outlook on things man

 
The risk a child has of getting sick and dying from covid is higher than the risk of you taking the vaccine and having anything more than a day's worth of mild side effects. 


me taking a shot has no impact on a kid's chances of being really sick from covid virus - kids just really don't get covid unless that already have underlying issues - true story, look up the numbers

and besides, we now know having the shots don't mean you won't get covid - you literally see it everyday like today where vaccinated people have covid. If they have covid, they can spread covid

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/24/politics/kamala-harris-the-view/index.html

again, 99.99% of kids won't get covid and be hospitalized, maybe higher % than than. Pretty remarkable for a fast spreading, deadly viral pandemic of our lifetimes, isn't it ? 

 
Maybe, just maybe, it's Fox News opinion hosts pushing misinformation, GOP governors doing the same, GOP legislatures downplaying vaccinations, etc.?




DIRECT HEADLINE: Jayapal tests positive for COVID-19, criticizes some Republicans for ‘cruelly’ not wearing masks

By Edmund DeMarche January 12th, 2021

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jayapal-tests-positive-for-covid-19-criticizes-some-republicans-for-cruelly-not-wearing-masks

DIRECT HEADLINE: Enjoy Rep. Jayapal’s Maskless Birthday Party on Camera While Wearing Your Mask

by Bobby Burack 9/21/21

https://www.outkick.com/enjoy-rep-jayapals-maskless-birthday-party-on-camera-while-wearing-your-mask/

TWEET (VIDEO): Spencer Brown XX@XXitsSpencerBrown

Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), celebrated her (56th) birthday (and was caught on video) maskless last night and blew out candles on her (birhtday) cake, according to video from (Progressive) Rep. (Rashida) Tlaib. Jayapal has (previously and publicly) said those who don’t wear masks are (absolutely) behaving “cruelly” and called for (severe) fines to be issued to (all caught) unmasked members of Congress.

8:55 AM · Sep 21, 2021

https://twitter.com/itsSpencerBrown/status/1440344038914224135

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVAW_Y4fCXk

******

I bought into Medina years ago, so I PAY Jayapal her salary. My taxes and the taxes of many others PAY her salary.

She's another Democrat caught saying one thing about mask and the pandemic and then is caught doing another.

IT KEEPS HAPPENING.

Jayapal is a minority woman and the FIRST Indian American women elected to Congress. Minorities across the board have major vaccine hesitancy and are not getting vaccinated. Do you think seeing this kind of hypocrisy is going to encourage them to get vaccinated?  She also has COVID19. That's a nice Party favor to give to people on her birthday, to risk giving them COVID19.

You can't keep blaming the GOP for the parts of when your side of the aisle can't keep their own house in order. If you want to say major sections of the GOP needs to do better regarding the pandemic, I won't disagree with you. But you can't use that as soft cover to excuse away what is clearly a long standing issue from the Party in current power.

 
"You can't keep blaming the GOP for the parts of when your side of the aisle can't keep their own house in order. If you want to say major sections of the GOP needs to do better regarding the pandemic, I won't disagree with you. But you can't use that as soft cover to excuse away what is clearly a long standing issue from the Party in current power."

The long standing issue with mask hesitancy is from the GOP's ignoring the issue when it started.  Unfortunately too many folks believed what they've been saying resulting in a very screwed up America.  The fact that American pandemic deaths have surpassed the 1918 pandemic is on the previous administration.  No way around it.  

 
The long standing issue with mask hesitancy is from the GOP's ignoring the issue when it started.  Unfortunately too many folks believed what they've been saying resulting in a very screwed up America.  The fact that American pandemic deaths have surpassed the 1918 pandemic is on the previous administration.  No way around it.  
The long standing hesitancy actually just comes from people knowing that the vast majority of them dont do anything. 

Why is this so hard to grasp?

 
Isn't that like asking if sober people die in car accidents?


if you're covid infected, you can spread the virus period and because of that, vaccinated and unvaccinated need to be treated the same. Vaccinated people want to be treated differently, like somehow they're immune to getting the virus. Its weird, very weird.

 
The long standing issue with mask hesitancy is from the GOP's ignoring the issue when it started.


Link?

because all the people I know who don't want vaccinated simply want to control their own medical choices, not be forced into something they don't want to put in their bodies and don't want the Fed Govt controlling them 

my sister in law said last night her 14 year old daughter was bullied for not having shot - not invited to parties, picked on, alienated .... and so they got the shot for peer pressure reasons. crazy

 
Link?

because all the people I know who don't want vaccinated simply want to control their own medical choices, not be forced into something they don't want to put in their bodies and don't want the Fed Govt controlling them 

my sister in law said last night her 14 year old daughter was bullied for not having shot - not invited to parties, picked on, alienated .... and so they got the shot for peer pressure reasons. crazy
Exhibit A on the potentially positive influence peer pressure can exert. I wouldn't want an unvaccinated person at my party, either.

 
Link?

because all the people I know who don't want vaccinated simply want to control their own medical choices, not be forced into something they don't want to put in their bodies and don't want the Fed Govt controlling them 

my sister in law said last night her 14 year old daughter was bullied for not having shot - not invited to parties, picked on, alienated .... and so they got the shot for peer pressure reasons. crazy
If the bolded is true, that's sad. Don't doubt it though.  

Other than that, we went through similar.  over the past year we had to say no to situations and friends because we didn't agree on this situation.  There were friends who took it more seriously than us that also didn't want my kid around, and I got it.  

Not sure why it would be a surprise to your SIL that her or her kids might not be invited to stuff because of their life choices.  

 
if you're covid infected, you can spread the virus period and because of that, vaccinated and unvaccinated need to be treated the same. Vaccinated people want to be treated differently, like somehow they're immune to getting the virus. Its weird, very weird.
You mean by both wearing masks indoors to help curtail the spread?

 
Link?

because all the people I know who don't want vaccinated simply want to control their own medical choices, not be forced into something they don't want to put in their bodies and don't want the Fed Govt controlling them 

my sister in law said last night her 14 year old daughter was bullied for not having shot - not invited to parties, picked on, alienated .... and so they got the shot for peer pressure reasons. crazy
You think it's "crazy" that a 14 year old got bullied at school for a choice she isn't entirely in control of that her mother exerted upon her? Were you somehow able to skip middle school and high school? 

#### man my mom was a substitute teacher and opted to get me a bowl cut...

 
Zow said:
You think it's "crazy" that a 14 year old got bullied at school for a choice she isn't entirely in control of that her mother exerted upon her? Were you somehow able to skip middle school and high school? 

#### man my mom was a substitute teacher and opted to get me a bowl cut...


yes, its crazy

every supports the Emo's and the LGBT's and gothics and anyone who wants to step outside the norm and say hey, I want my choices and my freedoms and please respect that and accept it 

until its something that the "everyone" doesn't like, then you get shames, bullied, pressured, coerced, bribed and if all that fails, mandate it right ?

yes, its crazy  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Other than that, we went through similar.  over the past year we had to say no to situations and friends because we didn't agree on this situation.  There were friends who took it more seriously than us that also didn't want my kid around, and I got it.  

Not sure why it would be a surprise to your SIL that her or her kids might not be invited to stuff because of their life choices.  


because we live in a society that's supposed to accept and love and condone everyone 

one party saying you can't come if you're choosing to not get a shot = acceptable

one party saying you can't come if you're choosing supporting or being LGBT = not acceptable

one party saying you can't come if you supported Trump = acceptable

again, funny how its NOT bullying when the left doesn't agree ... its just "life choices" 

 
Herb said:
Exhibit A on the potentially positive influence peer pressure can exert. I wouldn't want an unvaccinated person at my party, either.
Why?  If you are vaccinated an unvaccinated person shouldn’t be a threat to you, right?  I always feel like I’m missing something on this central point.  My problem with the unvaxed is that they are a threat to other unvaxed, and that this strains healthcare resources and further delays a return to normalcy.  Also the threat of a new strain developing over that time.

 

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