Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If 44 y/o Phillip Rivers is the best option for a team in the Colts situation, what does that say about the greater QB picture in the NFL?
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
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How Sad is the State of NFL QBs? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hot Sauce Guy
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Chaka
Footballguy
It says that it's week 15, all the most capable QBs are already on NFL rosters and the trade deadline has passed.
Dwayne Hoover
Footballguy
It weird for sure, couldn't they have gotten Andrew Luck out of retirement instead?
Let's say the trade deadline was still open. What realistic options do you think they'd have? Not just a trade that works for the Colts, but for both teams. Get the Bengals to give up rent-a-Flacco? Russ Wilson? Are those even better options then someone who apparently knows the system?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Or Derick Carr?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed - it just seems so odd that orgs churn through QBs, with so little development.
Maybe they tried but have you seen Andrew Luck in the last few years? I'm thinking they have and did not try because he does not look like someone physically able to play an NFL game.
Foles was one I thought off. Last played in 2022 and knows the system but I think Rivers has been keeping himself in better shape and more up to date on the system due in part to constant talks with Stiechen and coaching his son.
It's out of the blue but more I think about it's not so crazy. I'm more surprised they just chucked Leonard to the side so easily because I don't think he played that poorly last week, but you know they gave up this year and next's first round pick and the ship is shinking and if they think he gives them the best chance to right it I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I believe he's the property of the Saints still.
Dizzy
Footballguy
I guess Cam Newton can finally retire.
Chaka
Footballguy
They're better options than Reily Leonard. Rivers was elite back in the day, I have no idea if he's better ATM.
Sam Howell, Kenny Pickett, Aidan O'Connell, Minshew, Mason Rudolph, Davis Mills, Garoppolo etc. etc.
Plenty of guys to trade for in the league that I imagine they would have preferred to Rivers. But the deadline is passed.
I think it says there's no substitute for experience. Sure, you can play someone like Riley Leonard, but I think Rivers gives them a better chance. Time will tell. I'm actually very curious to see how Rivers looks, and looking forward to it. I'm not a Colts fan.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Woulda been a great time for ARich to show up or come running off the bench and be ready to help push them into the Playoffs
Former Top 5 pick at QB in 2023...
Someone has to be the Point Guard for the Washington Wizards even though they are 2-20...
At some point you just activate anyone you have either on the roster or practice squad, emergency WR lines up at QB
I hope we don't see Rivers get injured in a way that's painful to watch
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This happens every year, mediocre, 3rd string or practice squad level QBs get starts. This is the time to stack defenses.
IMO the story here is Sam Ehlinger preferring to stay as practice squad QB for Denver rather than maybe get 3 starts for his former team the Colts with a playoffs appearance on the line.
IMO the story here is Sam Ehlinger preferring to stay as practice squad QB for Denver rather than maybe get 3 starts for his former team the Colts with a playoffs appearance on the line.
So many people are saying this, but I don't understand why. It's not like Rivers is an MMA fighter getting back into the ring after a 5 year absence at 44 years old. He's playing a position that, as Jack Lambert said over 45 years ago, needs to be wearing dresses. Can you recall the last time an older immobile QB got hurt? For me, it's the young mobile ones that take the beatings.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hasn’t been medically cleared, still recovering from a broken face.
I don't think any of those teams would be making those QB's available and just put themselves at being at risk of being in the same position the Colts are in. That's why I said give me a trade that works for both teams. Those ain't it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And even that is a sad statement. Flacco is also old as dirt, NFL-wise. And sure, he had a spike game, but that was short-lived.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. There are play style differences for sure between them but the main advantage Flacco has over Rivers is he just has not sat out a few years. Other then that both super olds. Do I think he'd have been a better choice then Rivers? I do, just not sure it's that much better or sure Stiechen think it's any better. Afterall, he did bench Flacco after a few games last season.
To your original point the QB landscape is rough. There has never been a time in the history of the NFL finding elite or even really good starting QB play was easy. Supply has never been on their side. So in that sense this is nothing new, but if I had to pinpoint one thing that is exacerbating the situation is the NFL is a rough place to develop a raw QB and they are raw and need development because they don't stay in school or get as many starts as they used to. If guys like Lance and Richardson to name just a few of many has remained in college another year or two I think their outcomes might have been vastly different. But understandably, I'm pretty sure if I could imagine myself in their shoes I'd do exactly what they did and come out.
Spike game? In Flacco's first 4 games as a Bengal, he was the league's QB3, leading the league in both passing yards and passing TD's. Old journeymen rule!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
There aren't 32 starting caliber QBs in the NFL, much less 64. And anyone with an even halfway decent backup is rarely interested in trading him to another team.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
It's says and reaffirms to me that the NFL QB position is the hardest position to play in sports.
It says the NFL is Horrible this year
Chemical X
Footballguy
i think the colts are a bit desperate, given the jet trade and where they sit now, out of the playoffs. the 2026 pick was gonna be in the 20s, now they may miss the playoffs and then 2026 maybe without jones and a big ? at qb means the window it be closing.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
It’s only going to get worse. The majority of these college quarterbacks don’t even know how to call plays anymore. They just look at the sideline and if the sign is Bugs Bunny they run and if it’s Yosemite Sam, they pass.
Chaka
Footballguy
Everything is for sale, it's just a matter of price.
And, I don't think Pickett or O'Connell would have been prohibitively expensive. Ditto Jameis, Wilson or Flacco.
I'm sure there are others. I didn't want to go through the exercise of listing every QB potentially available.
Chaka
Footballguy
It's unique that he can walk in and know the offense and that's somewhat overlooked. Adding anyone would take some time to get acclimated AND their GM went from hotshot to possibly fired to glowing reviews but the latter hinged on this begin a successful season.
He needs success despite Richardson- to pick one issue.
******
As for the thread title and concept and it's just stupid and been going on 15+ years.
If you only have one guy practice then the others are literally only practicing a backup amount of reps, in a red jersey, 4 months a year.
I've been adamant about Malik Willis' QB coach tour he does each off-season being so wonderful. What are all the other backups doing? There isn't a typical path to success anymore if their reps are sorely limited.
The NFL is still (40 years) littered with great athletes that aren't good WRs. The Pats added 16 slot WRs because they can play. Sean Payton always adds some backups that simply can play. They'll give these guys reps and move the chains.
Other teams sign similar and treat me like shmoos and oh btw maybe they'll play someday.
So what are the routes for a freak versus a tactician?
Titans rookies have been overwhelmed with how much they've had to learn to be an NFL WR and it's probably very common. The rookies didn't understand spacing and timing and picks and "selling" being a decoy and using their bod and sharp cuts and purposeful diving and.....
So the Titans have an offense that stinks and they're forcing them to learn on the spot.
Restrepo comes in and gets five catches in a quarter and open eight times in that quarter. He just looked like a typical slot, that's all. The defense was lackadaisical with a lead but here's a 5-10 guy putting on a clinic.
So OCs adjust their offenses during the off-season to suit abilities (like Harmon's stuff) and how vanilla is it for the athletic guys? How difficult does that make it for the QB?
We've got real far away from teams adding "football guys" and "they know ball" guys and the offenses are so suspect.
If you watch DK and Rodgers closely; you wind up seeing a thousand finer points of the game. Stafford and Davante are similar.
Old WRs that have lost it can still be valued as knowing ball but they can't get open and those lowly UDFAs that play the game right don't get reps.
It's a stupid system.
Vrabel's ascent shows how quick n simple it was to exploit it and his big secret is just adding football guys
He needs success despite Richardson- to pick one issue.
******
As for the thread title and concept
and it's just stupid and been going on 15+ years.If you only have one guy practice then the others are literally only practicing a backup amount of reps, in a red jersey, 4 months a year.
I've been adamant about Malik Willis' QB coach tour he does each off-season being so wonderful. What are all the other backups doing? There isn't a typical path to success anymore if their reps are sorely limited.
The NFL is still (40 years) littered with great athletes that aren't good WRs. The Pats added 16 slot WRs because they can play. Sean Payton always adds some backups that simply can play. They'll give these guys reps and move the chains.
Other teams sign similar and treat me like shmoos and oh btw maybe they'll play someday.
So what are the routes for a freak versus a tactician?
Titans rookies have been overwhelmed with how much they've had to learn to be an NFL WR and it's probably very common. The rookies didn't understand spacing and timing and picks and "selling" being a decoy and using their bod and sharp cuts and purposeful diving and.....
So the Titans have an offense that stinks and they're forcing them to learn on the spot.
Restrepo comes in and gets five catches in a quarter and open eight times in that quarter. He just looked like a typical slot, that's all. The defense was lackadaisical with a lead but here's a 5-10 guy putting on a clinic.
So OCs adjust their offenses during the off-season to suit abilities (like Harmon's stuff) and how vanilla is it for the athletic guys? How difficult does that make it for the QB?
We've got real far away from teams adding "football guys" and "they know ball" guys and the offenses are so suspect.
If you watch DK and Rodgers closely; you wind up seeing a thousand finer points of the game. Stafford and Davante are similar.
Old WRs that have lost it can still be valued as knowing ball but they can't get open and those lowly UDFAs that play the game right don't get reps.
It's a stupid system.
Vrabel's ascent shows how quick n simple it was to exploit it and his big secret is just adding football guys
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
It says way more than that. Surely, there is at least 10 to 15 other options over the past 5 years of guys that have come and gone since Rivers retired.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
100% this.
There are really two types of elite QBs. There are ones that are elite because they have an elite understanding of the game and could run the offense just as well if the offensive coordinator took a few months off, and there are ones that are elite because they are just insanely elite athletes in just the right ways for the QB skillset.
The NFL has really shifted to the latter, and the guys in the former category just don't even get a chance to show it anymore because as meager athletes they don't get the PT to prove they can win with their brain.
It's been good to be vindicated on this somewhat recently with Tom Brady going on a few rants about it on podcasts, lamenting about how "back in my day" it used to be commonplace for QBs to call plays in the huddle or read the defense and know the perfect hot route/audible, but it is extremely rare now.
I remember Steve Spurrier talking about it once in the past too in regards to college. He always valued that understanding of the game and he once said that Danny Wuerffel would never have gotten an opportunity to play for many other coaches because in practice he looked like the worst QB ever. Weak arm, average size, modest accuracy. But he could read defense and understood the concepts of football, so even with a big armed highly rated recruit (Terry Dean) to compete with that looked 100x better in practice, Spurrier chose Wuerffel and the rest is history.
Compare the great QBs of the last generation with this one and how they separated from the rest of the QBs in the world. Brady, Peyton, Brees, Big Ben, Romo, Rodgers. Only Arod and Big Ben had major athletic advantages, but they still ran the offense half the time and could run the team if the coach/OC got abducted by alients. All of these guys had elite understanding of the game and how to run an offense.
Compared to now Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Jayden Daniels, Lamar Jackson. It's really only Burrow that is not athletically elite. If you put Mahomes, Allen, LJax, etc in Drew Brees' body they would most likely be nobodies.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Amusingly, I’d recently read a quote from Chip Kelly - he was asked if he would ever reveal what the signs meant.
His response was that they never meant anything - their sole purpose was to confuse the opposing team.
Which is a pretty good schtick, actually.
hankmurphy
Footballguy
It seems counter-intuitive to bench the backup QB who’s been working hard all offseason and practicing with the team for months so they can bring in a retiree who chose to sit at home all summer and autumn.
Zow
Footballguy
Right. It's a hard ****ing job that requires a ton of practice and experience in additional to immense natural talent. And it's a massive indication as to just how good defensive players have gotten.
Zow
Footballguy
Strongly disagree. With, like all of this except the occasional "the."
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
I look at that Kendall Hinton Broncos* game from a few years ago as Exhibit A and any refutation to some idiot on his couch saying he could so better than the Kenny Picketts of the world.
*I think that was his name?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Or, and maybe this is crazy talk, NFL teams like to churn and burn QB prospects, to the point that there is a massive shortage, despite only 32 starting jobs in the NFL. Collegiate programs don’t seem to be developing quality prospects and NFL Teams are constantly chasing the shiny new toy while discarding former top prospects to the scrap heap.
I’m curious what the rules are for poaching CFL players? Surely there must be a talent or 2 in that league, or the Arena league worth giving a shot to in situations like this.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I just wonder what does Rivers have left? In his final season or 2 his arm was looking pretty noodle-ish. It is hard to image a few years later he's got his fast ball back. We know his mobility is zero. Sure he is likely accurate and can read a defense but still I just wonder if a more athletic option is better. Especially with the Colts team as it is constructed with a great running game, good defense, I would prefer a Tebow type back there who can scramble, run the zone read and has enough arm to take some shots on PA.
Chaka
Footballguy
You act like a dearth of quality NFL QBs is something new.
There have always been a lot of serviceable starters available and, every now and again, one of them catches lightning in a bottle and wins a Super Bowl (Hostetler, Dilfer, Foles, Favre etc)
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
Chaka
Footballguy
If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not bringing in Brissett this season.If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
I, for one, am kicking myself for giving him up as a toss-in, in a trade for Mixon 2 years ago.
Chaka
Footballguy
Two years ago that looked like a very good deal, even in super-flex.I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not bringing in Brissett this season.If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
I, for one, am kicking myself for giving him up in a trade for Mixon 2 years ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I also gave up a 2nd and a 3rd IIRC.Two years ago that looked like a very good deal, even in super-flex.I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not bringing in Brissett this season.If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
I, for one, am kicking myself for giving him up in a trade for Mixon 2 years ago.
Chaka
Footballguy
No one cares about your fantasy team.I also gave up a 2nd and a 3rd IIRC.Two years ago that looked like a very good deal, even in super-flex.I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not bringing in Brissett this season.If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
I, for one, am kicking myself for giving him up in a trade for Mixon 2 years ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
My mother does, and she wants you to know this was a very hurtful thing to say. She said I should report you but I’m no snitch.No one cares about your fantasy team.I also gave up a 2nd and a 3rd IIRC.Two years ago that looked like a very good deal, even in super-flex.I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not bringing in Brissett this season.If it's always been that way it's not a problem it's a simple reality.No, I’m reiterating that it’s a continuing problem.
Excellent 2nd half of your strawman.
And, that's not a strawman it's a fact. Teams do manage to put it all together with a less than average starter.
And sometimes a less than average starter comes in and puts together a magical season even if they don't win much. Jacoby Brissett is a great example of that. I bet the Colts would love to have him under center right about now.
I, for one, am kicking myself for giving him up in a trade for Mixon 2 years ago.
