What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How To Get To Heaven When You Die. Read The First Post. Then Q&A Discussion. Ask Questions Here! (3 Viewers)

DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, BELIEVING THAT HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN AS A SACRIFICE FOR SIN?

  • YES

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • No

    Votes: 37 72.5%
  • I ALREADY PLACED MY FAITH IN JESUS & HIS SACRIFICE FOR MY SINS

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • OTHER

    Votes: 3 5.9%

  • Total voters
    51
Status
Not open for further replies.
Not sure how prevalent it is, but I hear it quite a bit in protestant/evangelical communities. Not that I necessarily hear people say, "Catholics aren't Christians", but I do hear "Christians and Catholics" as if they are different. I cringe whenever I hear it.
Sounds like the little brother trying to one up big brother when they both got older. :lmao:

I also thought that "Christian" simply meant a person who professes a belief in Jesus Christ and that, specifically, Jesus is the son of God and his death opened the gates of heaven, So, to me, it seems at least definitionally fair to include Catholics, LDS, etc. into the bucket because my understanding is that they also follow this core belief. There are obviously then a number of significant differences within the respective faiths (e.g. adoration of Mary, whether Jesus came to the U.S. and told us to wear magic underpants, whether communion is actually God's body and we should cannibalize him, etc.).
Don't Jehovah's Witness's belive that only 144,000 people can enter heaven? Granted, they are an outlier.
Yes, because I think that's the literal number in the Bible. From Revelations maybe? I should know this as I wrote a short satire about them being right when I was in college. Obvious the more sensible interpretation is that 144,000 symbolized a large but finite number because a literal interpretation would suggest that less than a fraction of 1% of us get to go to Heaven - which just seems selfish and cruel. But, alas, our friendly bear OP may interpret this literally as well. :shrug:

Again, though, I would consider a Watchtower Society Member a Christian because, again, they also belief that Jesus is the son of God, died for our sins, and they profess to follow his teachings (and then, of course, they veer off into how they interpret his teachings...).
My sister and her family are Jehova's and they believe 144,000 get to be with god in heaven but the rest of the saved folks will be living in paradise here on earth for all eternity so it's a win-win to be a believer. For those of us non-believers we simply cease to exist. I told her that was ok with me as if I don't exist then I wont have the ability to care about not being on heaven on earth. She thought that was sad.
The thought of no longer existing really scares the #### out of some people
 
I also thought that "Christian" simply meant a person who professes a belief in Jesus Christ and that, specifically, Jesus is the son of God and his death opened the gates of heaven, So, to me, it seems at least definitionally fair to include Catholics, LDS, etc. into the bucket because my understanding is that they also follow this core belief.
I went to a Baptist church for a while as a kid and they were very adamant that Catholics, Mormons, etc. were not Christians and were hellbound. I wasn't going to fight with them on theology, but just from a semantics standpoint it seemed silly to exclude people who worship Christ from the Christian umbrella, even if you think they're doing it wrong.
There's a classic joke that's told about different denominations.

A new group of people arrive in Heaven and Peter is giving them a tour. They go by different rooms and Peter says, "This room is the Catholics. This one is the Methodists. Here are the Lutherans." And then as they are about to pass by another room, Peter tells everyone to be very quiet. "Why do we need to be quiet," asks one of the new-comers. Peter replies, "Because that's the room for the [insert whichever sect you want to make fun of] and they think they are the only ones here."
 
The thought of no longer existing really scares the #### out of some people
Interestingly, when looking through the lense of faith vs works - only one of those gives you a shot at everlasting life (as in your name might live on).

In my unremarkable opinion.
 
Woody Boyd : I love you, Kelly - that's why I'm now a member of the Lutheran Evangelical Church of America. Just like you.
Kelly Boyd : Oh, Woody! You saved our marriage... What a wonderful sacrifice! Now when we die and go to heaven, we won't be separated by barbed wire and barking dogs... What was it exactly that saved you, Woody?
Woody Boyd : Something Dr. Crane said.
Kelly Boyd : ...That thing about how true love can overcome all differences?
Woody Boyd : Not exactly. He took me aside and said that I'd better get used to giving into you on every point for the rest of our lives if I ever want to see you naked again.
Kelly Boyd : Well, he is a PhD.
Woody Boyd : Yes, dear.
Kelly Boyd : Let's go home.
Woody Boyd : Yes, dear.
Dr. Frasier Crane : Woody, today... you are a man.
Woody Boyd : Yes, dear.
 
Not sure how prevalent it is, but I hear it quite a bit in protestant/evangelical communities. Not that I necessarily hear people say, "Catholics aren't Christians", but I do hear "Christians and Catholics" as if they are different. I cringe whenever I hear it.
Sounds like the little brother trying to one up big brother when they both got older. :lmao:

I also thought that "Christian" simply meant a person who professes a belief in Jesus Christ and that, specifically, Jesus is the son of God and his death opened the gates of heaven, So, to me, it seems at least definitionally fair to include Catholics, LDS, etc. into the bucket because my understanding is that they also follow this core belief. There are obviously then a number of significant differences within the respective faiths (e.g. adoration of Mary, whether Jesus came to the U.S. and told us to wear magic underpants, whether communion is actually God's body and we should cannibalize him, etc.).
Don't Jehovah's Witness's belive that only 144,000 people can enter heaven? Granted, they are an outlier.
Yes, because I think that's the literal number in the Bible. From Revelations maybe? I should know this as I wrote a short satire about them being right when I was in college. Obvious the more sensible interpretation is that 144,000 symbolized a large but finite number because a literal interpretation would suggest that less than a fraction of 1% of us get to go to Heaven - which just seems selfish and cruel. But, alas, our friendly bear OP may interpret this literally as well. :shrug:

Again, though, I would consider a Watchtower Society Member a Christian because, again, they also belief that Jesus is the son of God, died for our sins, and they profess to follow his teachings (and then, of course, they veer off into how they interpret his teachings...).
My sister and her family are Jehova's and they believe 144,000 get to be with god in heaven but the rest of the saved folks will be living in paradise here on earth for all eternity so it's a win-win to be a believer. For those of us non-believers we simply cease to exist. I told her that was ok with me as if I don't exist then I wont have the ability to care about not being on heaven on earth. She thought that was sad.
I wonder, is your sister a Jew? Because the 144,000 are from the 12 Tribes of Israel. Also, there is no where in the Bible that says that they are the only ones going to heaven. It actually says that God sends them to be witnesses in the earth during the Tribulation period. Hell is real and it lasts forever. Revelation chapter 20 is pretty clear about the Lake of Fire lasting forever & ever.
 
Last edited:
Revelation chapter 20 is pretty clear about the Lame of Fire lasting forever & ever.
Revelation 20

I don't understand how you're able to separate stuff like this from any other book of fiction. It's Lord of the Rings level mythology.
Because it's fact. Jesus Christ really came and He really did fulfill hundreds of prophecies written hundreds of years before His birth. He really did perform miracles. Archaeology really does support the Bible. Jesus does change lives, including mine. Darwinian Evolution is false and not supported by the evidence.
 
Not sure how prevalent it is, but I hear it quite a bit in protestant/evangelical communities. Not that I necessarily hear people say, "Catholics aren't Christians", but I do hear "Christians and Catholics" as if they are different. I cringe whenever I hear it.
Sounds like the little brother trying to one up big brother when they both got older. :lmao:

I also thought that "Christian" simply meant a person who professes a belief in Jesus Christ and that, specifically, Jesus is the son of God and his death opened the gates of heaven, So, to me, it seems at least definitionally fair to include Catholics, LDS, etc. into the bucket because my understanding is that they also follow this core belief. There are obviously then a number of significant differences within the respective faiths (e.g. adoration of Mary, whether Jesus came to the U.S. and told us to wear magic underpants, whether communion is actually God's body and we should cannibalize him, etc.).
Don't Jehovah's Witness's belive that only 144,000 people can enter heaven? Granted, they are an outlier.
Yes, because I think that's the literal number in the Bible. From Revelations maybe? I should know this as I wrote a short satire about them being right when I was in college. Obvious the more sensible interpretation is that 144,000 symbolized a large but finite number because a literal interpretation would suggest that less than a fraction of 1% of us get to go to Heaven - which just seems selfish and cruel. But, alas, our friendly bear OP may interpret this literally as well. :shrug:

Again, though, I would consider a Watchtower Society Member a Christian because, again, they also belief that Jesus is the son of God, died for our sins, and they profess to follow his teachings (and then, of course, they veer off into how they interpret his teachings...).
My sister and her family are Jehova's and they believe 144,000 get to be with god in heaven but the rest of the saved folks will be living in paradise here on earth for all eternity so it's a win-win to be a believer. For those of us non-believers we simply cease to exist. I told her that was ok with me as if I don't exist then I wont have the ability to care about not being on heaven on earth. She thought that was sad.
I wonder, is your sister a Jew? Because the 144,000 are from the 12 Tribes of Israel. Also, there is no where in the Bible that says that they are the only ones going to heaven. It actually says that God sends them to be witnesses in the earth during the Tribulation period. Hell is real and it lasts forever. Revelation chapter 20 is pretty clear about the Lake of Fire lasting forever & ever.
what a bummer
 
Because it's fact. Jesus Christ really came and He really did fulfill hundreds of prophecies written hundreds of years before His birth. He really did perform miracles. Archaeology really does support the Bible. Jesus does change lives, including mine. Darwinian Evolution is false and not supported by the evidence.
None of what you said holds up to scrutiny other than the "Jesus does change lives". I have no doubt that can be true if one were to put in the effort.
 
Revelation chapter 20 is pretty clear about the Lame of Fire lasting forever & ever.
Revelation 20

I don't understand how you're able to separate stuff like this from any other book of fiction. It's Lord of the Rings level mythology.
Because it's fact. Jesus Christ really came and He really did fulfill hundreds of prophecies written hundreds of years before His birth. He really did perform miracles. Archaeology really does support the Bible. Jesus does change lives, including mine. Darwinian Evolution is false and not supported by the evidence.
Hey, Paddington. Along with making claims about what you believe, can you also provide some evidence supporting your claims? I think it would be good to know how you reach your conclusions. Maybe take one of the above claims and lay out your argument how you came to that conclusion?
 
For some reason I though Paddington was a literalist in terms of the Bible. That's not the case? I ask because the EU has 27 nations, not 10.
 
Oh, I know.
I passed by a billboard the other day that said "Repent. Jesus is coming soon". They've been saying that for over 2,000 years now.
In Noah's day, they were warned for a long time and mocked Noah, but the world was destroyed. Jesus is coming soon, but we need to get ready. Are you ready? Read this first post.

I believe its well known that Noah HATED dinosaurs and that's why he didn't invite them onto the ark so they could survive.
 
Hey, Paddington. Along with making claims about what you believe, can you also provide some evidence supporting your claims? I think it would be good to know how you reach your conclusions. Maybe take one of the above claims and lay out your argument how you came to that conclusion?
Would it be fair to say that you don't believe everything in the Bible is true, either through inaccuracy or because it's myth? If so, what percentage of the stories that occur in the Bible do you believe to be true? What needs to be true for the Bible to maintain the spiritual impact it's had on your life?
 
Hey, Paddington. Along with making claims about what you believe, can you also provide some evidence supporting your claims? I think it would be good to know how you reach your conclusions. Maybe take one of the above claims and lay out your argument how you came to that conclusion?
Would it be fair to say that you don't believe everything in the Bible is true, either through inaccuracy or because it's myth?
Assuming by "true" you mean "that's what it would have looked like if we had a time machine and could go witness the event", then it's fair to say that I don't believe everything is true.

If so, what percentage of the stories that occur in the Bible do you believe to be true?

What percentage? Well, I'd probably lean towards all the "historical" stories having some level of "truth" to them. So, if the numerator and denominator are based on stories as the unit of measurement, then I'd say close to 100% are true in the sense that there was some kind of flood they were talking about, some kind of exodus, some kind of wilderness journey, some kind of battles for the land, some kind of kingdom, and some kind of exile. It's more the details within each story that I'd say aren't true as the author was free to tell the story in a way that communicate their theology about who God is and what he was doing in the world. To quote The Art of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter:

Nevertheless, these stories are not, strictly speaking, historiography, but rather the imaginative reenactment of history by a gifted writer who organizes his materials along certain thematic biases and according to his own remarkable intuition of the psychology of the characters. He feels entirely free, one should remember, to invent interior monologue for his characters; to ascribe feeling, intention, or motive to them when he chooses; to supply verbatim dialogue (and he is one of the literature's masters of dialogue) for occasions when no one but the actors themselves could have had knowledge of exactly what was said. The author of the David stories stands in basically the same relation to Israelite history as Shakespeare stands to English history in his history plays.

So, if we used individual details of the story as the unit of measurement, I think a high percentage isn't "true". Just from dialogue alone, that's going to be high. There's a lot of narration through dialogue; putting words in people's mouths as a way to deliver the narrator's message. Numbers are often symbolic. It sure is strange that so many things in the Bible take 3, 7, or 40 days/years. My guess is if we were there to witness many events, we'd see that they didn't actually take the exact amount of time the author indicates.

What needs to be true for the Bible to maintain the spiritual impact it's had on your life?

This is a great question. I don't know. I definitely went through, and still going through, a bit of a crisis of faith because of how I see things compared to how I saw things for over 40 years. I never had much doubt until recently. Strangely, my faith has never been stronger. That's mostly because I see faith differently now. My faith used to be almost entirely wrapped in what I believe. In other words, it was about me being right. If I hold the right beliefs, then I have faith. As many of beliefs were being altered, it felt like I was losing my faith. Yet, I was, at the same time, finding myself caring more about people are more interested in doing good things. I feel much more faithful despite no longer really knowing what I believe in so many areas. The less I cling to my old view of the Bible, the more impact it has had on me. A helpful book for me has been The Sin of Certainty by Peter Enns. In it, he relays this story:

In 1975 the Jesuit philospher John Kavanaugh went to work for three months at the Homefor the Dying in Calcutta, India, with Mother Teresa. He was searching for an answer to his spiritual struggles. On his very first morning there, he met Mother Teresa.

"And what can I do for you?" she asked.

"Kavanaugh asked her to pray for him.

"What do you want me to pray for?" she asked.

He answered with what I'm sure he felt was a perfectly reasonable and humble request, in fact the ery reason for which he traveled thousands of miles to India in the first place: "Pray that I have clarity."

"No. I will not do that."

Kavanaugh asked her why.

"Clarity is the last thing you are clinging to and must let go of."

"But you always seem to have clarity."

Mother Teresa laughed. "I have never had clarity. What I have always had is trust. So I will pray that you trust God."

I think our culture values certainty; being right. We have defined faith as being entirely in the brain and holding the right beliefs. It's not that I think God wants us to have the wrong beliefs, but I think he cares much more about us participating in his mission to repair the world. Loving one another is our participation. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
 
. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
So in your opinion and with the context of the above can you act as Bob acts (largely as one would describe what a “good person” looks like) but not believe in Jesus or God in the classical sense and still be faithful? Or is faithful merely a descriptor of “believing is Jesus as the son of god”?
 
Oh, I know.
I passed by a billboard the other day that said "Repent. Jesus is coming soon". They've been saying that for over 2,000 years now.
In Noah's day, they were warned for a long time and mocked Noah, but the world was destroyed. Jesus is coming soon, but we need to get ready. Are you ready? Read this first post.

I believe its well known that Noah HATED dinosaurs and that's why he didn't invite them onto the ark so they could survive.
Actually, they probably did get put on the Ark, but as BABIES, that's how you fit them there. They did begin to die out shortly after the flood. Many survived for thousands of years after the flood. Alexander the Great and other famous people wrote of seeing Dinosaurs. They called them Dragons back then. Evolutionists can't admit that because it contradicts their false religion of evolution.
 
. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
So in your opinion and with the context of the above can you act as Bob acts (largely as one would describe what a “good person” looks like) but not believe in Jesus or God in the classical sense and still be faithful? Or is faithful merely a descriptor of “believing is Jesus as the son of god”?
I'd say you can still be faithful, but who/what you are being faithful to probably matters. In the above quote, Mother Teresa used "trust" as a substitute for "faith". Many Biblical scholars use the words "loyalty" or "fidelity" to describe what they think Biblical authors mean by "faith". It's certainly not just a mental assent to something like a belief proposition and it includes actions that show trust or loyalty in someone/something. The Biblical image is loyalty towards a king. In their world, they didn't care much which god you sacrificed to, but you better not show loyalty to another king. The Bible repeatedly puts God in the position of an ancient king. One's active faith is a marker of who their king is.

I lean towards it mattering which king we align with. I think we are all loyal to someone/something. A Jewish/Christian claim is going to be that all other kings are going to fail us. Anchoring our faith in any other king will be worse.

I'm not sure how well that addresses your question. I feel like you might be asking something a little different than how I answered it. Honestly, I'm still trying to understand a different perspective and find the right language to describe it. Words can be hard.
 
. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
So in your opinion and with the context of the above can you act as Bob acts (largely as one would describe what a “good person” looks like) but not believe in Jesus or God in the classical sense and still be faithful? Or is faithful merely a descriptor of “believing is Jesus as the son of god”?
I'd say you can still be faithful, but who/what you are being faithful to probably matters. In the above quote, Mother Teresa used "trust" as a substitute for "faith". Many Biblical scholars use the words "loyalty" or "fidelity" to describe what they think Biblical authors mean by "faith". It's certainly not just a mental assent to something like a belief proposition and it includes actions that show trust or loyalty in someone/something. The Biblical image is loyalty towards a king. In their world, they didn't care much which god you sacrificed to, but you better not show loyalty to another king. The Bible repeatedly puts God in the position of an ancient king. One's active faith is a marker of who their king is.

I lean towards it mattering which king we align with. I think we are all loyal to someone/something. A Jewish/Christian claim is going to be that all other kings are going to fail us. Anchoring our faith in any other king will be worse.

I'm not sure how well that addresses your question. I feel like you might be asking something a little different than how I answered it. Honestly, I'm still trying to understand a different perspective and find the right language to describe it. Words can be hard.
thanks. In regards to the bolded part of your quote. I was asking a bit of a leading question in an attempt to discuss a point. Faith. Most often I’ve heard it solely in reference to faith in Jesus specifically and ones salvation. But using the example I originally quoted from you about Bob as a good person. Faith in that context could just simply be faith in that in living a good life and being a good person I’ve done what I can in my time alive and whatever happens next, happens. To me that’s a form of living faithfully.
 
Oh, I know.
I passed by a billboard the other day that said "Repent. Jesus is coming soon". They've been saying that for over 2,000 years now.
In Noah's day, they were warned for a long time and mocked Noah, but the world was destroyed. Jesus is coming soon, but we need to get ready. Are you ready? Read this first post.

I believe its well known that Noah HATED dinosaurs and that's why he didn't invite them onto the ark so they could survive.
Actually, they probably did get put on the Ark, but as BABIES, that's how you fit them there. They did begin to die out shortly after the flood. Many survived for thousands of years after the flood. Alexander the Great and other famous people wrote of seeing Dinosaurs. They called them Dragons back then. Evolutionists can't admit that because it contradicts their false religion of evolution.
Joe, please note the restraint of not using the emoji you re-implemented today in accordance with your policy.
 
@Paddington, people are here trying to engage you in conversation about the very thing you want to discuss (I'm not one, true). Take a deep breath and meet them halfway. You might like it.
 
. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
So in your opinion and with the context of the above can you act as Bob acts (largely as one would describe what a “good person” looks like) but not believe in Jesus or God in the classical sense and still be faithful? Or is faithful merely a descriptor of “believing is Jesus as the son of god”?
I'd say you can still be faithful, but who/what you are being faithful to probably matters. In the above quote, Mother Teresa used "trust" as a substitute for "faith". Many Biblical scholars use the words "loyalty" or "fidelity" to describe what they think Biblical authors mean by "faith". It's certainly not just a mental assent to something like a belief proposition and it includes actions that show trust or loyalty in someone/something. The Biblical image is loyalty towards a king. In their world, they didn't care much which god you sacrificed to, but you better not show loyalty to another king. The Bible repeatedly puts God in the position of an ancient king. One's active faith is a marker of who their king is.

I lean towards it mattering which king we align with. I think we are all loyal to someone/something. A Jewish/Christian claim is going to be that all other kings are going to fail us. Anchoring our faith in any other king will be worse.

I'm not sure how well that addresses your question. I feel like you might be asking something a little different than how I answered it. Honestly, I'm still trying to understand a different perspective and find the right language to describe it. Words can be hard.
thanks. In regards to the bolded part of your quote. I was asking a bit of a leading question in an attempt to discuss a point. Faith. Most often I’ve heard it solely in reference to faith in Jesus specifically and ones salvation. But using the example I originally quoted from you about Bob as a good person. Faith in that context could just simply be faith in that in living a good life and being a good person I’ve done what I can in my time alive and whatever happens next, happens. To me that’s a form of living faithfully.
Yeah, I kind of assumed your question was related to how this "faith" impacts heaven, hell, and afterlife. I really don't spend much time thinking about those things anymore. I'm uncomfortable saying that where one puts their faith doesn't matter, but I'm not sure how I'd link that importance to whatever happens next. I used to know what I believed about heaven and hell. Now I don't really have a strong position and is a big part of the doubts I mentioned earlier.
 
Last edited:
. I find it interesting how we talk about someone "losing their faith". I have only heard people say that in relation to what someone believes. "I heard Bob doesn't think Noah was a person. He's losing his faith!" Meanwhile, Bob is a loving dad, doesn't verbally abuse waiters when his glass is empty for a few minutes, and feeds the homeless every week. Yet, he's "lost his faith" because of what he believes. I think it's a jacked up metric we've created for being faithful.
So in your opinion and with the context of the above can you act as Bob acts (largely as one would describe what a “good person” looks like) but not believe in Jesus or God in the classical sense and still be faithful? Or is faithful merely a descriptor of “believing is Jesus as the son of god”?
I'd say you can still be faithful, but who/what you are being faithful to probably matters. In the above quote, Mother Teresa used "trust" as a substitute for "faith". Many Biblical scholars use the words "loyalty" or "fidelity" to describe what they think Biblical authors mean by "faith". It's certainly not just a mental assent to something like a belief proposition and it includes actions that show trust or loyalty in someone/something. The Biblical image is loyalty towards a king. In their world, they didn't care much which god you sacrificed to, but you better not show loyalty to another king. The Bible repeatedly puts God in the position of an ancient king. One's active faith is a marker of who their king is.

I lean towards it mattering which king we align with. I think we are all loyal to someone/something. A Jewish/Christian claim is going to be that all other kings are going to fail us. Anchoring our faith in any other king will be worse.

I'm not sure how well that addresses your question. I feel like you might be asking something a little different than how I answered it. Honestly, I'm still trying to understand a different perspective and find the right language to describe it. Words can be hard.
thanks. In regards to the bolded part of your quote. I was asking a bit of a leading question in an attempt to discuss a point. Faith. Most often I’ve heard it solely in reference to faith in Jesus specifically and ones salvation. But using the example I originally quoted from you about Bob as a good person. Faith in that context could just simply be faith in that in living a good life and being a good person I’ve done what I can in my time alive and whatever happens next, happens. To me that’s a form of living faithfully.
Yeah, I kind of assumed your question was related to how this "faith" impacts heaven, hell, and afterlife. I really don't spend much time thinking about those things anymore. I'm uncomfortable saying that where one puts their faith doesn't matter, but I'm not sure how I'd link that importance to whatever happens next. I used to know what I believed about heaven and hell. Now I don't really have a strong position and is a big part of the doubts I mentioned earlier.
Very logical. My general belief is that whatever one has faith in if it leads them to be the best version of themselves and a better person then I’m all for it. I consider that a faithful life. It’s why, while I wholeheartedly disagree with Paddington’s view, I’ve spent no time trying to talk him (or anyone else) out of those beliefs.
 
@Paddington, people are here trying to engage you in conversation about the very thing you want to discuss (I'm not one, true). Take a deep breath and meet them halfway. You might like it.
I thought I was doing that already. I am discussing this topic with them and respectfully. If you are asking me to agree with things I don't agree with, I can't do that. I have put in much research into this topic.
 
For those that have been on the board a long time, I recall some shtick about Larry Boy and his dragons. I think that was back in my days of using this board as my personal diary so I wasn't really focused on whatever it was.

Was Larry Boy's dragons the same dragons that our OP just referenced in that there's some belief that dinosaurs lived around the time of Alexander the Great (so a few hundred B.C.E.) but were mistaken for dragons?
 
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
 
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.
 
Last edited:
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.

Wasn’t there a rule back when the political forum existed that stuff needed to be backed up with cited sources or something like that? How do you even begin to have a discussion and back and forth with something like this? There’s a difference between a belief and just being objectively wrong.
 
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.

And you have links to the bolded? You know, so we can read up and be as certain as you are.
 
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.

Wasn’t there a rule back when the political forum existed that stuff needed to be backed up with cited sources or something like that? How do you even begin to have a discussion and back and forth with something like this? There’s a difference between a belief and just being objectively wrong.

Did you cite a source for this post? How ridiculous of you to expect me to cite a source for giving my opinion on something and then you didn't. How do I even begin to have a discussion with someone so dishonest? Yes there is a difference between belief and being objectively wrong. You are absolutely right.
 
For believers like Paddington, the Bible IS their source of evidence if you ask them to quote one. You’re not going to get them to cite something rooted in science as evidence of some of the more spectacular things written in the Bible because there are none.
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.

Wasn’t there a rule back when the political forum existed that stuff needed to be backed up with cited sources or something like that? How do you even begin to have a discussion and back and forth with something like this? There’s a difference between a belief and just being objectively wrong.

Yes there is a difference between belief and being objectively wrong. You are absolutely right.

Great we do agree! Have an amazing Sunday!
 
Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.
What evidence would you cite for the Earth being formed before the Sun?
 
Coincidentally, I watched an old Sam Harris v Jordan Peterson debate last night. Harris argued that Fundamentalists have an advantage in textual interpretation because they can simply point to what the texts say and don't have to "do something else" to reach a more societally agreeable interpretation.
 
And that's a wr

Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.
What evidence would you cite for the Earth being formed before the Sun?
Well, of course that would have to be the Bible, but the Scientific evidence that IS found DOES support the Bible being true. It doesn't support Evolution. So, what evidence would YOU cite to prove that Matter and Energy can be created out of nothing in violation of the Scientific Laws, 3rd of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy? I'll wait.
 
@Paddington Do you think Genesis 1’s primary message is to communicate the science of creation? Or do you think there’s another message that God is communicating?
I don't believe it's technically meant to be a Science book, I believe that it is a History book that contains Scientific items, but the actual Scientific Evidence does support the Bible. Both Creation Scientists and Evolutionary Scientists both look at the same evidence but they come to different conclusions based on that same evidence. It's as simple as that.
 
The word evolutionist sounds odd.

The word evolutionist sounds odd.
It's referring to those who believe in the "Theory" of Evolution. It especially refers to the academics, Teachers, Professors, Scientists, ect.
But they're all wrong? These people who have dedicate their lives to learning and theorizing on a particular issue... are all just wrong and you're right?
They are all wrong and the Creation Scientists who also devote their entire lives to learning and theorizing on different issues are right and you're wrong. They have the advantage of having the Word of God to guide them. Evolutionists have the false religion of Evolution that contradicts the actual evidence. Evolution is actually the Religion of the Atheist. The problem for most people is that they have been brainwashed with Evolution all through School since they were a child and are ignorant of the Creation Science side of the issue, looking at the same evidence. If they saw both sides, they would see the fraud of Evolution, but all evidence that supports Creationism is Censored from School Textbooks. Truth.
 
The word evolutionist sounds odd.

The word evolutionist sounds odd.
It's referring to those who believe in the "Theory" of Evolution. It especially refers to the academics, Teachers, Professors, Scientists, ect.
But they're all wrong? These people who have dedicate their lives to learning and theorizing on a particular issue... are all just wrong and you're right?
They are all wrong and the Creation Scientists who also devote their entire lives to learning and theorizing on different issues are right and you're wrong. They have the advantage of having the Word of God to guide them. Evolutionists have the false religion of Evolution that contradicts the actual evidence. Evolution is actually the Religion of the Atheist. The problem for most people is that they have been brainwashed with Evolution all through School since they were a child and are ignorant of the Creation Science side of the issue, looking at the same evidence. If they saw both sides, they would see the fraud of Evolution, but all evidence that supports Creationism is Censored from School Textbooks. Truth.
And this is why people have issues with evangelical Christians
 
And that's a wr

Yes the Bible is 100% true and God's Word, however, The Scientific Evidence and History do support the Bible. I can use Non Biblical evidence to back up the truth of the Word of God. Darwinian Evolution is the one that false and not supported by the actual evidence. It really is a religion. The only type of evolution that really does happen is Lateral Adaptation, AKA Micro Evolution, within the Species. The problem with Evolutionists is that they cite actual examples of Micro Evidence and try to use that as evidence for Macro-Darwinian Evolution of one species evolving into another. That's false and has never happened, nor is it supported by the fossil record. So the evolutionary "Scientists" take a few bones and extrapolate a fictional creature from them and have an artist DRAW a fictional creature based on their description. It's false. So, yes I can support my beliefs with the actual evidence.
What evidence would you cite for the Earth being formed before the Sun?
Well, of course that would have to be the Bible, but the Scientific evidence that IS found DOES support the Bible being true. It doesn't support Evolution. So, what evidence would YOU cite to prove that Matter and Energy can be created out of nothing in violation of the Scientific Laws, 3rd of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy? I'll wait.

I just posted 6.1 million search results of peer reviewed scientific studies and articles that supports evolution. Your turn.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top