How to Tell Someone is a Good Person by the Small Things (1 Viewer)

[Chadstroma]

I have been spending some time thinking through some things as my daughter is graduating Jr High from her small Catholic private school where the entire school has a few hundred kids from K-8th to a public HS that has about 3K students. I am planning on taking her to lunch sometime this summer and talking to her. I want to help her get ready for the huge learning curve she is about to experience. My wife went to the same school when she was a kid and then an all girls Catholic HS so I don't think she really understands but I went to public school and know that this will be a dramatic difference for my daughter. There are a lot of subjects I want to discuss with her but one of them is about the whole boys/girls thing and being prepared for dating. As much as I joke that she isn't allowed, I know it is coming.

One of the things I have been wanting to help her figure out is how to really determine if someone is a good person. We all know that there is a range of people out there and guys will range from being scum who want to use girls to good kids. As I really thought about this I was thinking of how are ways you can really tell because guys will act and say things to be a person that they are not in order to get what they want. I touched on something I remember thinking before that on way you could tell someone was a considerate, good person was if they took their shopping carts back in the collection points or just leave them. I thought about this more and started coming up with other things that are 'small' but are a good way to watch people that expose themselves for who they really are and now what they are presenting to you.

So, my questions- first, do you agree that you can find small things like that and really see whether a person is a decent person or self centered scum bag? If not, why and how do you otherwise determine someone to be good or not. If you do agree, what are other small things that you believe you can see someone character?

 

[ChiefD]

That's a really hard topic - especially with a 13-14 year old girl.

We talk to our daughter all the time about this - she is 14. She has a pretty good BS meter. But that's how we always raised her.

We just told her to always use her gut and intuition. If we armed her correctly she will be able to weed out the good and the bad. The bad will show themselves soon enough.

We also just told her that kids of that age go back and forth all the time on if they are nice. Or considerate. Or little ****-weeds. Eventually you figure out who the wads are and you just choose to ignore them. Your people will surface soon enough.

With her going to a completely new town and school this year, our advice was to sit back and listen for awhile. Get a feel for how people are. Friends are gonna come and go and you will learn with experience.

 

[Jayrod]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

 

[General Malaise]

I think this is a good topic and a great question. I've often thought about this myself and have a few things I'd consider for this list of being a good person....the shopping cart thing is definitely one of them!

- On your license, are you an organ donor? If 'yes' I think that is a point in favor of being a good person.
- If you are a dog owner, did you rescue or adopt the dog? If 'yes' I think that's another point in favor of being a good person. And yes, I know some people have to BUY designer dogs for allergies and there are other reasons to spend money to buy a puppy, but the world is full of animals that will be euthanized if we don't step up to give them a home. Those people are the good people, IMO.
- How does a person treat the restaurant server, bartender, staff, etc? Are you treating them all with respect, kindness and possibly with some grace if they are slammed? If I don't know you well and we're out together at a restaurant or bar, I'm judging you on how you interact with the staff there.
- Do you wave when people let you in to merge or change lanes? If you wave, I think you're a nice person who knows how to thank a person for their kindness. I find the non-wavers to be selfish and inconsiderate.


That's a few I'd add. Not sure how this helps your daughter dating, though.

 

[General Malaise]

I have been spending some time thinking through some things as my daughter is graduating Jr High from her small Catholic private school where the entire school has a few hundred kids from K-8th to a public HS that has about 3K students. I am planning on taking her to lunch sometime this summer and talking to her. I want to help her get ready for the huge learning curve she is about to experience. My wife went to the same school when she was a kid and then an all girls Catholic HS so I don't think she really understands but I went to public school and know that this will be a dramatic difference for my daughter. There are a lot of subjects I want to discuss with her but one of them is about the whole boys/girls thing and being prepared for dating. As much as I joke that she isn't allowed, I know it is coming.

One of the things I have been wanting to help her figure out is how to really determine if someone is a good person. We all know that there is a range of people out there and guys will range from being scum who want to use girls to good kids. As I really thought about this I was thinking of how are ways you can really tell because guys will act and say things to be a person that they are not in order to get what they want. I touched on something I remember thinking before that on way you could tell someone was a considerate, good person was if they took their shopping carts back in the collection points or just leave them. I thought about this more and started coming up with other things that are 'small' but are a good way to watch people that expose themselves for who they really are and now what they are presenting to you.

So, my questions- first, do you agree that you can find small things like that and really see whether a person is a decent person or self centered scum bag? If not, why and how do you otherwise determine someone to be good or not. If you do agree, what are other small things that you believe you can see someone character?

And to add on this - when you're at the super market loading groceries onto the conveyor belt, do you reach for the dividing stick so the person behind you can do the same or do you just sit there blindly unaware of your selfishness?

 

[dickey moe]

I'd encourage her to pay attention as to how the person treats people who most other people treat poorly.

 

[jamny]

Do you say "thank-you" if someone holds a door for you.

 

[Chadstroma]

That's a really hard topic - especially with a 13-14 year old girl.

We talk to our daughter all the time about this - she is 14. She has a pretty good BS meter. But that's how we always raised her.

We just told her to always use her gut and intuition. If we armed her correctly she will be able to weed out the good and the bad. The bad will show themselves soon enough.

We also just told her that kids of that age go back and forth all the time on if they are nice. Or considerate. Or little ****-weeds. Eventually you figure out who the wads are and you just choose to ignore them. Your people will surface soon enough.

With her going to a completely new town and school this year, our advice was to sit back and listen for awhile. Get a feel for how people are. Friends are gonna come and go and you will learn with experience.

I have had conversations with my daughter over the years touching on things like this but she is so sheltered that I don't know if she has had a chance to develop a BS meter in real life.

 

[Chadstroma]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Very good point.

Even more so in a relationship. When dating and everything is fresh, nice and fun- it is dang easy to be on your good behavior but when things go all to poo, how do they react to that?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

I call this the George Costanza rule. If someone shouts fire and you knock over the old lady with the walker trying to get to the door you are not a nice person.

 

[Chadstroma]

I think this is a good topic and a great question. I've often thought about this myself and have a few things I'd consider for this list of being a good person....the shopping cart thing is definitely one of them!

- On your license, are you an organ donor? If 'yes' I think that is a point in favor of being a good person.
- If you are a dog owner, did you rescue or adopt the dog? If 'yes' I think that's another point in favor of being a good person. And yes, I know some people have to BUY designer dogs for allergies and there are other reasons to spend money to buy a puppy, but the world is full of animals that will be euthanized if we don't step up to give them a home. Those people are the good people, IMO.
- How does a person treat the restaurant server, bartender, staff, etc? Are you treating them all with respect, kindness and possibly with some grace if they are slammed? If I don't know you well and we're out together at a restaurant or bar, I'm judging you on how you interact with the staff there.
- Do you wave when people let you in to merge or change lanes? If you wave, I think you're a nice person who knows how to thank a person for their kindness. I find the non-wavers to be selfish and inconsiderate.


That's a few I'd add. Not sure how this helps your daughter dating, though.

Just using your turn signal is another that I thought about before and similar to yours about waving. If you can't be bothered to simply hit a turn signal when you change lanes or turn because it is.... too much effort? Then it seems like your default position is being self centered. I would also say how you drive and generally allowing people in or to go ahead of you says alot too.

How someone treats people that they can not get any benefit from being nice and courteous is another... going along the way of servers, bartenders, staff etc but even further because a 'shred' person who is still a jerk can know that they can 'get' something out of being nice to these people. When there is absolutely nothing to gain from someone or even be inconvenienced, how do they act?

The dog is a good thing too. Being a dog owner in general is a half a point and how they treat the dog is another. I worked at a pet store for a while. I would break down the percentage of jerks being about 75% cat owners, 20% other animals and 5% dog owners. For whatever reason, dog owners seemed to be nice, good people. Easily the jerks were overwhelmingly cat owners (now, before people have a temper tantrum on this, there were PLENTY of wonderful people that were cat owners and I am not saying cat owners are jerks).

Well, it is a bigger question in general than just my daughter dating but I want to get her thinking about these type of things and not how cute some little turd is.

 

[Chadstroma]

I have been spending some time thinking through some things as my daughter is graduating Jr High from her small Catholic private school where the entire school has a few hundred kids from K-8th to a public HS that has about 3K students. I am planning on taking her to lunch sometime this summer and talking to her. I want to help her get ready for the huge learning curve she is about to experience. My wife went to the same school when she was a kid and then an all girls Catholic HS so I don't think she really understands but I went to public school and know that this will be a dramatic difference for my daughter. There are a lot of subjects I want to discuss with her but one of them is about the whole boys/girls thing and being prepared for dating. As much as I joke that she isn't allowed, I know it is coming.

One of the things I have been wanting to help her figure out is how to really determine if someone is a good person. We all know that there is a range of people out there and guys will range from being scum who want to use girls to good kids. As I really thought about this I was thinking of how are ways you can really tell because guys will act and say things to be a person that they are not in order to get what they want. I touched on something I remember thinking before that on way you could tell someone was a considerate, good person was if they took their shopping carts back in the collection points or just leave them. I thought about this more and started coming up with other things that are 'small' but are a good way to watch people that expose themselves for who they really are and now what they are presenting to you.

So, my questions- first, do you agree that you can find small things like that and really see whether a person is a decent person or self centered scum bag? If not, why and how do you otherwise determine someone to be good or not. If you do agree, what are other small things that you believe you can see someone character?

And to add on this - when you're at the super market loading groceries onto the conveyor belt, do you reach for the dividing stick so the person behind you can do the same or do you just sit there blindly unaware of your selfishness?

Another good one for sure. Small things that show you are not just about your own universe.... that other people exist and that you care and want to make their lives just a little tiny bit better for the day.

 

[Chadstroma]

Do you say "thank-you" if someone holds a door for you.

Does he open the door for others and damn well better for her.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Like running across the gym to try and intimidate a kid by getting in his face?

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is super interesting.

Lots of room for self righteousness as always.

People will naturally ascribe the things they do as good. That's human nature. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I'm super hesitant to judge people as "good" or "bad" on the surface. Or at all, really.

I do think there are some "tells" that can be a little instructive at least. Although certainly not definitive.

The whole area of "how do you treat people perceived to be in a serving position to you?" is an easy one. I don't know any people I think highly of that are rude to people serving them.

I don't know many people I think highly of that seem to love playing the "gotcha" card.

LIke @Jayrod said, I think adversity reveals a good bit.

I think as i get older, I tend to put a lot of value on traits like empathy and kindness.

I'd also say most all these are not black and white clear. People are complicated.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Another big one I see is complaining or not owning a mistake.

I think it's good to not complain. Full stop.

And when you make a mistake, own it. Full stop. Apologize if needed and move forward.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Also - excellent topic @Chadstroma

 

[Snoopy]

I think this is a good topic and a great question. I've often thought about this myself and have a few things I'd consider for this list of being a good person....the shopping cart thing is definitely one of them!

- On your license, are you an organ donor? If 'yes' I think that is a point in favor of being a good person.
- If you are a dog owner, did you rescue or adopt the dog? If 'yes' I think that's another point in favor of being a good person. And yes, I know some people have to BUY designer dogs for allergies and there are other reasons to spend money to buy a puppy, but the world is full of animals that will be euthanized if we don't step up to give them a home. Those people are the good people, IMO.
- How does a person treat the restaurant server, bartender, staff, etc? Are you treating them all with respect, kindness and possibly with some grace if they are slammed? If I don't know you well and we're out together at a restaurant or bar, I'm judging you on how you interact with the staff there.
- Do you wave when people let you in to merge or change lanes? If you wave, I think you're a nice person who knows how to thank a person for their kindness. I find the non-wavers to be selfish and inconsiderate.


That's a few I'd add. Not sure how this helps your daughter dating, though.

The dog is a good thing too. Being a dog owner in general is a half a point and how they treat the dog is another. I worked at a pet store for a while. I would break down the percentage of jerks being about 75% cat owners, 20% other animals and 5% dog owners. For whatever reason, dog owners seemed to be nice, good people. Easily the jerks were overwhelmingly cat owners (now, before people have a temper tantrum on this, there were PLENTY of wonderful people that were cat owners and I am not saying cat owners are jerks).

Does adopting a rescue cat count as good or bad?

 

[FarFromHome]

Interesting. All great examples, but what if I told you Jeffrey Dahmer was nice to food service workers? Or Charles Manson rescued a bunch of dogs? I have a very pretty, athletic 19 year daughter that just charms the hell out of boys. The best thing we can do as fathers is be an example of how men should treat women. That way they are searching for a man that is respectful and they quickly abort on those who show bad early signs. Helps I let my wife walk all over me. My daughter has had two relationships and she wears the pants because she mirrors her mother. I prefer that.

 

[rockaction]

Do you say "thank-you" if someone holds a door for you.

Does he open the door for others and damn well better for her.

I'd be hesitant on this one. There's still a raging debate about holding the door open for women and regardless of our own political feelings, young kids are being taught to be ambivalent about this. I remember a stupid girlfriend cuffing my face once about it just to prove a point. We didn't last.

It has since passed Go without even bothering to collect the two hundred bucks. In all earnestness, I keep reading about the younger generation and how they treat women and you might want to buckle up and buckle in, Chad. It's not that they're treating them poorly; it's that they have no clue how to interact because of modern manners and considerations of appropriateness.

 

[rockaction]

The best thing we can do as fathers is be an example of how men should treat women

This is the absolute best solution to this issue. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think this is a good topic and a great question. I've often thought about this myself and have a few things I'd consider for this list of being a good person....the shopping cart thing is definitely one of them!

- On your license, are you an organ donor? If 'yes' I think that is a point in favor of being a good person.
- If you are a dog owner, did you rescue or adopt the dog? If 'yes' I think that's another point in favor of being a good person. And yes, I know some people have to BUY designer dogs for allergies and there are other reasons to spend money to buy a puppy, but the world is full of animals that will be euthanized if we don't step up to give them a home. Those people are the good people, IMO.
- How does a person treat the restaurant server, bartender, staff, etc? Are you treating them all with respect, kindness and possibly with some grace if they are slammed? If I don't know you well and we're out together at a restaurant or bar, I'm judging you on how you interact with the staff there.
- Do you wave when people let you in to merge or change lanes? If you wave, I think you're a nice person who knows how to thank a person for their kindness. I find the non-wavers to be selfish and inconsiderate.


That's a few I'd add. Not sure how this helps your daughter dating, though.

The dog is a good thing too. Being a dog owner in general is a half a point and how they treat the dog is another. I worked at a pet store for a while. I would break down the percentage of jerks being about 75% cat owners, 20% other animals and 5% dog owners. For whatever reason, dog owners seemed to be nice, good people. Easily the jerks were overwhelmingly cat owners (now, before people have a temper tantrum on this, there were PLENTY of wonderful people that were cat owners and I am not saying cat owners are jerks).

Does adopting a rescue cat count as good or bad?

Good

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The best thing we can do as fathers is be an example of how men should treat women

This is the absolute best solution to this issue. Thank you for posting this.

This. I’ll add that I’ve done my best to raise her to be smart. It’s all we can do. And the more you tell her not to do something/date someone, the more they’ll head in that direction. And I’ve always been honest with her. Especially about my mistakes/faults. And the wife and I are in lockstep with all of this.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Another big one I see is complaining or not owning a mistake.

I think it's good to not complain. Full stop.

And when you make a mistake, own it. Full stop. Apologize if needed and move forward.

Completely agree. One of the most endearing and mature traits is someone willing to fall on their own sword. I have tried to instill that in my daughters.

 

[BlackCrowes]

I like people that can take good -natured ribbing and laugh at themselves. self-deprecation has always been a big plus for me

 

[drummer]

I get a fair amount of door to door sellers that most don't respect my front gate before the front door. When they are knocking at the front door, then I tell them very firmly it's not only a no, but a hard no. When they ask me to present my energy bill so they can scan it, I tell them I am gonna bring my Mossberg instead.

Last week a young man respected the gate, my dog always alerts me when a stranger comes upon the property. He was like 22 years old, doing door to door. The first thing I always say to anyone who comes my door selling is "what is your pitch?". Like give me your best cold pitch, and I will tell you that if you're trying to sell me when I already know you are, then I say I don't want to waste your time. Yet they still don't get it.

This young man respected the gate, and my dog knew it. He didn't have a pitch. He worked the neighborhood, He was telling me how he helped people have access to services that were available to them, how people he met did not trust anyone coming to their front door, but he was able to help them, and gain their trust.

The keyword he said was the word "help". I get a lot of door to door sellers try to tell me that they are going the help me.

I spent around 40 minutes talking to this hardworking young man. He told me how a family got scammed on the next block by a robocall that cost them 5K. That only came up when I asking about his product. Yet he understood my concerns. I am Gen X, he is Gen Z. I am lucky that I am Gen X,. We have lived through a lot of crisis.

There are so many opportunities for he and many young people, and it's all in their hands. I told him he needs to learn Linux, which I use and have since I joined this site.

I lived a hard life because I didn't have someone like me at my age telling me not to do what I did because I could get away with in in the 80's. I could move out of the house at 168years old,, live in a house with a pool and a treehouse, and your social capital is based on your actual social circle of friends, and who I brought into and connected to others back when people actually had to mee each other.

We ultimately produce the product. But we have failed at our most precious: out youth. i believe and know and the data shows this is that Gen Z is the most lost generation America has ever produced. We should be ashamed of it. But we're not

All I want and pray is for that young man to have a chance in life. He is trying to earn his place in this chaos of America..

This forum can't even touch the hot stove anymore. And it's because of the bottom line. If this message board can't address their lack of courage when it comes to anything open, free speech, competition, or the reality of FF is not ever virtuous. It was a side hustle to get around the usual shy-locks.

 

[drummer]

This is super interesting.

Lots of room for self righteousness as always.

People will naturally ascribe the things they do as good. That's human nature. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I'm super hesitant to judge people as "good" or "bad" on the surface. Or at all, really.

I do think there are some "tells" that can be a little instructive at least. Although certainly not definitive.

The whole area of "how do you treat people perceived to be in a serving position to you?" is an easy one. I don't know any people I think highly of that are rude to people serving them.

I don't know many people I think highly of that seem to love playing the "gotcha" card.

LIke @Jayrod said, I think adversity reveals a good bit.

I think as i get older, I tend to put a lot of value on traits like empathy and kindness.

I'd also say most all these are not black and white clear. People are complicated.

Oh come on. This site has more 3rd rails only to protect your business. And here you are trying to comment on something like "small things" when you personally ban people on your site.

I mean come on Joe B. Small things? The most smallest thing on this site that would get a several week timeout from you is from you yourself.

Nobody can question Joe B. He will never have it. He is like Rupert Murdoch, old legacy media,. You can't be of virtue when you personally ban someone who is willing to challenge you.

Back in the say, this forum used to be more free and open. Why?

Because we didn't have Joe B creating threads.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Like running across the gym to try and intimidate a kid by getting in his face?

Not using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later would be a good sign of character.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I’ve tried to teach my kids the importance of doing the right thing - not when it’s convenient, but every single time. That doesn’t mean fair, it’s means what’s right. I’ve personably done it both ways and the reward for being a good person far outweighs the short term success of being awful. That is the most import lesson I had to learn on my own. I live by this and they see it and we talk about it when it comes up in everyday life.

I think girls tend to be inherently good to begin with.

At your daughter’s age, in my opinion, the biggest thing you can do for her is building her confidence and figuring out a way she can maintain it. Girls are absolutely brutal to each other. The better your daughter is at something, whether it be being pretty or sports or checkers, the other girls will absolutely hate her for it and do everything they can to tear her apart.

Maybe girls are not all inherently good after all.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

People who litter are not so great.

 

[zoobird]

Feels like this thread is about to go off the rails, even though it seemed like a pretty harmless topic. Hopefully not, because I thought it was a great question.

Some thoughts:

• See how people treat others, not just how they treat you. My daughter is friends with a couple of guys who are always nice to her, but definitely tend to cross the line and act like jerks to others. They'll even apologize if my daughter gets mad at them for how they act...but she recognizes that it's because she's their friend...not because they've learned to be nice people. As a result, she keeps them at a distance
• My older daughter has had this experience a few times - close friends who basically want to control what she does and who she gets together with. If she got together with other friends w/out them, they'd get mad. What makes it even worse is that the girls who do this are almost always hypocrites and get together with others whenever they feel like it. I know this is isn't just something that happened only to her, because my younger daughter has mentioned people she knows who have had the same experience. Advice would be "don't listen to them - if they're actually a good friend they'll end up being ok with you getting together with whoever you want...if not, you're much better off without them"
• Another one that I think takes most girls by surprise...male friends of theirs, who they believe are 'just friends and have no interest' will often become interested in being more than friends. Girls typically are in denial about this and then are often critical of the guys when they realize what's going on. I don't actually think the guys are doing anything bad - I actually think it's kind of wholesome if they girls they're interested in are those they are already friends with. It's just a difference that takes the girls by surprise. Useful to know about both because they shouldn't always trust the motivations of the guys they're friends with, but also because if they're in denial about it, they'll tend to play with the feelings of guy friends who are interested
• People will drag you down with them. If you're ambitious about anything (sports, academics, hobbies, etc.) and those around you aren't ambitious about anything, they'll tend to drag you down and actively get in the way of accomplishing anything or developing your interest...sometimes deliberately and other times just because we're influenced by those around us. Flip side - ambitious, passionate people can help lift you up and may expose you to opportunities and activities that you wouldn't otherwise have tried

 

[ChiefD]

This is super interesting.

Lots of room for self righteousness as always.

People will naturally ascribe the things they do as good. That's human nature. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I'm super hesitant to judge people as "good" or "bad" on the surface. Or at all, really.

I do think there are some "tells" that can be a little instructive at least. Although certainly not definitive.

The whole area of "how do you treat people perceived to be in a serving position to you?" is an easy one. I don't know any people I think highly of that are rude to people serving them.

I don't know many people I think highly of that seem to love playing the "gotcha" card.

LIke @Jayrod said, I think adversity reveals a good bit.

I think as i get older, I tend to put a lot of value on traits like empathy and kindness.

I'd also say most all these are not black and white clear. People are complicated.

Oh come on. This site has more 3rd rails only to protect your business. And here you are trying to comment on something like "small things" when you personally ban people on your site.

I mean come on Joe B. Small things? The most smallest thing on this site that would get a several week timeout from you is from you yourself.

Nobody can question Joe B. He will never have it. He is like Rupert Murdoch, old legacy media,. You can't be of virtue when you personally ban someone who is willing to challenge you.

Back in the say, this forum used to be more free and open. Why?

Because we didn't have Joe B creating threads.

Man, I don’t know.

I have personally disagreed a lot with Joe and said my peace from time to time. But he has always answered it and explained his side of things. That at least tells me the intentions are in the right place and the man has character.

But the world and internet is a horrible and toxic place these days. And I come here because I don’t have to see that dreck on here.

If you seek that out and want it the world is your oyster.

 

[ChiefD]

Feels like this thread is about to go off the rails, even though it seemed like a pretty harmless topic. Hopefully not, because I thought it was a great question.

Some thoughts:

• See how people treat others, not just how they treat you. My daughter is friends with a couple of guys who are always nice to her, but definitely tend to cross the line and act like jerks to others. They'll even apologize if my daughter gets mad at them for how they act...but she recognizes that it's because she's their friend...not because they've learned to be nice people. As a result, she keeps them at a distance
• My older daughter has had this experience a few times - close friends who basically want to control what she does and who she gets together with. If she got together with other friends w/out them, they'd get mad. What makes it even worse is that the girls who do this are almost always hypocrites and get together with others whenever they feel like it. I know this is isn't just something that happened only to her, because my younger daughter has mentioned people she knows who have had the same experience. Advice would be "don't listen to them - if they're actually a good friend they'll end up being ok with you getting together with whoever you want...if not, you're much better off without them"
• Another one that I think takes most girls by surprise...male friends of theirs, who they believe are 'just friends and have no interest' will often become interested in being more than friends. Girls typically are in denial about this and then are often critical of the guys when they realize what's going on. I don't actually think the guys are doing anything bad - I actually think it's kind of wholesome if they girls they're interested in are those they are already friends with. It's just a difference that takes the girls by surprise. Useful to know about both because they shouldn't always trust the motivations of the guys they're friends with, but also because if they're in denial about it, they'll tend to play with the feelings of guy friends who are interested
• People will drag you down with them. If you're ambitious about anything (sports, academics, hobbies, etc.) and those around you aren't ambitious about anything, they'll tend to drag you down and actively get in the way of accomplishing anything or developing your interest...sometimes deliberately and other times just because we're influenced by those around us. Flip side - ambitious, passionate people can help lift you up and may expose you to opportunities and activities that you wouldn't otherwise have tried

Great post.

We have tried to raise our daughter to be the fist in the air type of person. Stand up there and be strong,

But hormones play a huge role in how they see themselves sometimes, and it’s really hard to fight that. For @Chadstroma, I think the key is communication always.

If a dad is always having active conversations with their kids, it helps a lot. We have to remember as parents that home is their safe space where they can vent and let all the angst of their day out without too much judgment and vitriol from their parents. I know I have learned to listen more than speak it comes to my teenagers.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is super interesting.

Lots of room for self righteousness as always.

People will naturally ascribe the things they do as good. That's human nature. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I'm super hesitant to judge people as "good" or "bad" on the surface. Or at all, really.

I do think there are some "tells" that can be a little instructive at least. Although certainly not definitive.

The whole area of "how do you treat people perceived to be in a serving position to you?" is an easy one. I don't know any people I think highly of that are rude to people serving them.

I don't know many people I think highly of that seem to love playing the "gotcha" card.

LIke @Jayrod said, I think adversity reveals a good bit.

I think as i get older, I tend to put a lot of value on traits like empathy and kindness.

I'd also say most all these are not black and white clear. People are complicated.

Oh come on. This site has more 3rd rails only to protect your business. And here you are trying to comment on something like "small things" when you personally ban people on your site.

I mean come on Joe B. Small things? The most smallest thing on this site that would get a several week timeout from you is from you yourself.

Nobody can question Joe B. He will never have it. He is like Rupert Murdoch, old legacy media,. You can't be of virtue when you personally ban someone who is willing to challenge you.

Back in the say, this forum used to be more free and open. Why?

Because we didn't have Joe B creating threads.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't agree and it’s disappointing you feel that way. Not sure what you mean with "Nobody can question Joe B. He will never have it." or nobody can "challenge" me. We have a good bit of that and I think it's good.

Our moderators try their best to be fair and careful with suspensions. But we do sometimes have suspensions and I realize that's not popular.

When folks say "Just suspend the people causing trouble", the negative side of that is above. It's life.

And please let's not derail a good thread here with criticism of me. Please start a new thread for that if you like or shoot me a PM. Thanks.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Like running across the gym to try and intimidate a kid by getting in his face?

Not using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later would be a good sign of character.

So about half the posts in this thread

 

[Terminalxylem]

Another big one I see is complaining or not owning a mistake.

I think it's good to not complain. Full stop.

And when you make a mistake, own it. Full stop. Apologize if needed and move forward.

Hearing someone apologize can be very telling - are they truly contrite, accept full responsibility for their wrongdoing, and willing to “make things right”?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Like running across the gym to try and intimidate a kid by getting in his face?

Not using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later would be a good sign of character.

So about half the posts in this thread

Half the posts in this thread are using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later? I’m not seeing that.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Another big one I see is complaining or not owning a mistake.

I think it's good to not complain. Full stop.

And when you make a mistake, own it. Full stop. Apologize if needed and move forward.

Hearing someone apologize can be very telling - are they truly contrite, accept full responsibility for their wrongdoing, and willing to “make things right”?

Absolutely.

That’s a big one. And one I’ve missed plenty of times.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Another big one I see is complaining or not owning a mistake.

I think it's good to not complain. Full stop.

And when you make a mistake, own it. Full stop. Apologize if needed and move forward.

Hearing someone apologize can be very telling - are they truly contrite, accept full responsibility for their wrongdoing, and willing to “make things right”?

Absolutely.

That’s a big one. And one I’ve missed plenty of times.

I’ve learned, I think, with a lot of practice.

 

[Joe Bryant]

On the apology thing, Andres is good here. https://forums.footballguys.com/thr...conflict-and-vastness-of-the-universe.816208/

 

[Jayrod]

I think the biggest harbinger of a person's character is how they handle adversity or stress.

Even a psychopath can seem like a good person when all is well, but when things go wrong, there is a perceived slight or they don't get what they want, how do they handle it? People with bad character either get angry and belligerent or will lie/cheat/manipulate to get what they want.

Like running across the gym to try and intimidate a kid by getting in his face?

Not using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later would be a good sign of character.

So about half the posts in this thread

Half the posts in this thread are using someone’s embarrassing moment/mistake/lapse of good judgment against them later? I’m not seeing that.

Oh, he's just coming after me, trying to bait me. Again.

I have him on ignore for a reason.

 

[-OZ-]

do you agree that you can find small things like that and really see whether a person is a decent person or self centered scum bag?

Yes

I'd encourage her to pay attention as to how the person treats people who most other people treat poorly.

This is the best way for adults, and a good sign for teens. How does the person treat the janitor, the cashier, etc? I think it’s been summarized as how does the person treat people they don’t expect to gain from?
We call it “don’t be a ****”

Put another way, I’m usually treated well - people want stuff from me. My wife has mixed results from her students parents. I get more pissed than she does about it.

 

[Ilov80s]

It’s pretty tough with the internet and access to porn that’s out there. Even boys who seem mostly good have likely been raised now with their ideas of sexual relationships being built around inappropriate relationships and abusing women. The girls become dolls for them to act out all the things they see on the internet and it’s a pretty rough situation for those young girls to be in. What is the prevalence of this? I don’t know and I get it’s an awkward conversation to have with your son or daughter but I do think it’s one you should have. The **** you see on there isn’t normal and isn’t for teens in their eerily relationships.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I raised two sons with my wife and think we did a pretty good job overall and they have become decent young men now that they are both in their thirties. What I find interesting is that it all just sort of happened without consciously thinking about it too much. Now that I have a granddaughter, it is interesting that I am already having these same thoughts about what wisdom is most important to impart on her. The interesting thing being that I am not sure whether I am thinking about it more because she is a she, or because I’m not in the thick of raising her like her parents are and I have more time to think about it.

Either way, it is a great question and the first thing that pops into my mind is that some people are takers and some people are givers. Once you start seeing this in people, it really becomes easy to assess people’s intentions. I guess our old buddy wikkid said it best … “the give is the get” … people who live with this way of thinking most of the time (we all mess up from time to time), are the people you want to surround yourself with and of course, live your life the same way.

 

[Hoh]

You can tell a lot about a person by their expression when no one is looking at them. I see so, so many people whose default expression seems to be anger or annoyance.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Open handed living.

There's a John Wooden quote that says

You can't live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you.

A few have mentioned how we treat folks serving us in some capacity; that's a good one. I'd go one step further - how do we treat the most vulnerable residents in our city?

I find I can easily turn a cold shoulder, feign awareness of their mere existence, and lock into a 1,000 yard stare when confronted with a street person panhandling. It's embarrassing how quickly and automatically I can flip that switch. We give into irrational fears ("They'll just use the money for alcohol or drugs. They'll try to rob me when I pull my wallet out. There are a lot of crazies out there, you never know when someone is going to go off on you."), which honestly is a bit of a weak opt out. I know we all do it, it's an easy to justify act of self-preservation.

I spent the better part of a decade helping the unhoused and IME all that is absurd and doesn't have any basis in the reality of 99.9% of the folks you see on the street (YMMV, there are always exceptions.) They are living desperate lives you and in a typical day are ignored by hundreds of people. Just taking 3-5 minutes to chat with someone can transform their day - and yours.

Most of us don't carry cash. That's a good conversation starter, though.

• I don't have anything with me at the moment, but how can I help?
• Have you had breakfast/lunch/dinner?
• Would you like a coffee (when it's cold) / a drink (when it is sweltering)?
• Staying warm? Man, it's been cold lately, how you doing? / Staying dry? This rain is crazy! / Wow has it been hot, IDK you can stand it being out here, ya know?
• By the way, my name is BobbyLayne. How has you day been so far? What's going on?

Just talk them like you would talk to any friend you're catching up with. Don't demand their name, they don't owe you anything, and they'll let you know if they want - it's their choice. If someone is in your living room, it's understood that it is your space and your rules apply; on the street, when you engage with a street person, that's their domain, so let them give you nonverbal signals it's OK to chat with them - and accept they want to be left alone, if they are reluctant or seem cross.

When you give someone the dignity of acknowledging they exist and are worthy of your curiosity, you are gifting them something absolutely beatutiful. You are reminding them they bear the imago dei, the same as anyone else. You are also reminding yourself you are part of something bigger than your self; we have far more in common than differences. It could take a few seconds or 5-10 minutes, but it will breath life into someone else; you will often find it cost you nothing (exepct a tiny fraction of your time) and was a priceless blessing for them.

And don't surprised when you walk away feeling like you were the one being blessed, not them.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Here’s an example that I just experienced….

I have just boarded a flight. I’m sitting in first class, aisle seat. The young lady in the window seat had boarded just before me. She’s fully entrenched in her phone already so my “good morning” as a courtesy was returned as something muttered under her breath.

No problem. I was just trying to be cordial and wasn’t expecting much more than an acknowledgment. Most of the time, I’m not one to continually engage with my row mates on a flight. You do your thing, I will do mine for the next 5.5 hours (San Diego to Philadelphia). Perfect!

After a few minutes, she starts maneuvering around to adjust the jacket she was wearing. I wasn’t really paying attention but I think she was attempting to put on her hood so she could disassociate from me with 100% clarity. lol.

As mentioned, I wasn’t really paying attention until her left arm swung down and knocked over her large, extremely full Starbucks coffee that was sitting on the armrest between us. I watched in slow motion as it dropped to the ground, hitting the floor, popping off the top, and subsequently splashing all over my shoe, pantleg and backpack that was stowed under my seat.

What happened next made me think immediately of this thread, which I had been reading just minutes earlier.

There was an audible groan from under the hood as she lamented the fact that her coffee was now all over the floor and she wouldn’t be able to caffeinate on the long flight to Philly.

That was it. There wasn’t an “oh I’m sorry” or anything of the like. She just kind of stared down at the floor, unsure of what to do next. To her credit, she did ring the flight attendant call button, but that was it. No other words or actions indicating anything other than assuming that she expected the flight attendant to come and clean things up.

I hopped out of my seat and went to the front galley to get something to sop up the mess. The FA gave me a big stack of paper towels to try and help the matter.

I returned to my seat, took a few of the paper towels to clean up my shoes, pants, backpack and floor, and handed the rest of the stack to the coffee spiller, without an acknowledgment or a thank you. While I certainly understand that she may have been completely embarrassed to the point of turning mute, that’s not the normal reaction of someone that just accidentally spilled their coffee all over a complete stranger that was sitting next to them. A simple “I’m sorry” was the minimum expectation but I got nothing.

After wiping off her shoe that may have gotten a slight splash, and making a half-hearted attempt to blot the carpet between us, she stuffed the remaining paper towels in the seat back, turned toward the window and went back to doom-scrolling Instagram, which she has continued to do in the 10 minutes or so it was taken me to type this out.

I will give most people the benefit of the doubt considering this is the first flight out in the morning, it’s very early and they haven’t had their coffee, but come on. A simple acknowledgment of remorse or even a veiled attempt at an apology would have gone a long way.

So there it is. My judgement of her right now? Bad person.

And now I have to sit here with a soggy floor and the smell of stale coffee lingering for the next 5.5 hours. AMA. lol.

UPDATE
It’s been roughly two hours since we took off. Still no apology to me however she did find it in her cold, dead heart to say thank you multiple times to the flight attendant who brought her a stream of mimosas during breakfast before she conked out, with her head leaning awkwardly against the window.

I have half a mind to “accidentally” knock over my water into her lap as I get up to use the restroom.

I won’t, but I want to.

 

[bostonfred]

Some very good ideas in this thread and a lot of them are what people call "being raised right" or "manners". The hard part is distinguishing between people who are trying to be good and people who try to act good.

A lot of manners are "tricks". I don't mean deceptions, I mean like teaching your dog to sit. Some people weren't taught the same tricks, or haven't been exposed to them, especially at your daughter's age. That doesn't make them good people or bad people.

If you hear someone say bless you or gesundheit, they could be a good person. It's certainly polite. But it's also just a trick. Plenty of people say bless you when you sneeze but will stab you in the back at the first opportunity.

There's an expression about Bostonians that we are kind but not nice, and people from other areas are nice but not kind. I fall into that. I value kindness more than niceness.

But those are my values. Figuring out what you value is important too. And it's hard to see it without examples. That's why we all have to experience heartbreak at one time or another and hopefully learn from it.

Some of those things are obvious and cliche. If you value financial success above kindness then you probably shouldn't be looking for a milquetoast school teacher. And they probably aren't looking for you.

But it's also the little stuff. I thought the door holding was a great example above. If you value manners and believe that a gentleman should hold the door for a lady, you're not a good or bad person. If you think holding the door for women is belittling and reinforcing the patriarchy, I can respect that too. I think holding the door for anyone behind you is kind, regardless of gender, and if i see you struggling with mobility or carrying things or wrangling kids, I'll hold it even if you're not right behind me.

What i don't like is people who yell at you for holding the door. I'm trying to be kind. You're trying to teach me. That's cool. Yelling at me is not a kind way to teach me. That's not cool.

Which brings me to the other thing I'd say is a good gauge of kindness. Being willing to change your behavior to be more kind.

If a kid doesn't go grocery shopping often and they leave their cart in the parking lot instead of the carriage return, i don't blame them. That's something I had to learn at some point, and it's something they might not have learned yet. It's a "trick" that you've learned by watching it, or being taught, or seeing the signs.

But once you've been taught I'd expect you to try to change the behavior. Even if you forget and do it again. If you show a little embarrassment or remorse if you forgot, that's more indicative of a "good person" to me than actually using the cart return.

And that's one of those things that young people tend to struggle with in relationships. Finding someone attractive and exciting and expecting to change them. Don't look for tricks Look for the willingness to learn, and to apply it again later. That's where you'll find out who the person really is.

I'd expect most people of the cool people here who read this thread saw some of the early suggestions and thought, I agree with that, i do that. I'd also bet some people thought of things that they don't always do and felt a little guilty. If you feel that guilt, and then you find yourself remembering it soon and doing the "right" thing, then you're cool in my book.

We are all works in progress, we all forget or make mistakes or haven't learned things or take the easy way out sometimes. Your daughter is too.

i loved the advice that the best way for a dad to teach his daughter is to treat her the way she should expect to be treated. I'd add that the best way to find good people is by being a good person. If you continue to try to improve you'll be much more likely to notice who isn't.

So maybe the best answer to teach her how to find good people is to teach her to be introspective. That the important thing isn't that you always let the other person win, or to change yourself to be the kind of person that they want you to be, but to be the kind of person you want to be. That's how we figure out what we really value, by continuously learning and improving ourselves.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Here’s an example that I just experienced….

I have just boarded a flight. I’m sitting in first class, aisle seat. The young lady in the window seat had boarded just before me. She’s fully entrenched in her phone already so my “good morning” as a courtesy was returned as something muttered under her breath.

No problem. I was just trying to be cordial and wasn’t expecting much more than an acknowledgment. Most of the time, I’m not one to continually engage with my row mates on a flight. You do your thing, I will do mine for the next 5.5 hours (San Diego to Philadelphia). Perfect!

After a few minutes, she starts maneuvering around to adjust the jacket she was wearing. I wasn’t really paying attention but I think she was attempting to put on her hood so she could disassociate from me with 100% clarity. lol.

As mentioned, I wasn’t really paying attention until her left arm swung down and knocked over her large, extremely full Starbucks coffee that was sitting on the armrest between us. I watched in slow motion as it dropped to the ground, hitting the floor, popping off the top, and subsequently splashing all over my shoe, pantleg and backpack that was stowed under my seat.

What happened next made me think immediately of this thread, which I had been reading just minutes earlier.

There was an audible groan from under the hood as she lamented the fact that her coffee was now all over the floor and she wouldn’t be able to caffeinate on the long flight to Philly.

That was it. There wasn’t an “oh I’m sorry” or anything of the like. She just kind of stared down at the floor, unsure of what to do next. To her credit, she did ring the flight attendant call button, but that was it. No other words or actions indicating anything other than assuming that she expected the flight attendant to come and clean things up.

I hopped out of my seat and went to the front galley to get something to sop up the mess. The FA gave me a big stack of paper towels to try and help the matter.

I returned to my seat, took a few of the paper towels to clean up my shoes, pants, backpack and floor, and handed the rest of the stack to the coffee spiller, without an acknowledgment or a thank you. While I certainly understand that she may have been completely embarrassed to the point of turning mute, that’s not the normal reaction of someone that just accidentally spilled their coffee all over a complete stranger that was sitting next to them. A simple “I’m sorry” was the minimum expectation but I got nothing.

After wiping off her shoe that may have gotten a slight splash, and making a half-hearted attempt to blot the carpet between us, she stuffed the remaining paper towels in the seat back, turned toward the window and went back to doom-scrolling Instagram, which she has continued to do in the 10 minutes or so it was taken me to type this out.

I will give most people the benefit of the doubt considering this is the first flight out in the morning, it’s very early and they haven’t had their coffee, but come on. A simple acknowledgment of remorse or even a veiled attempt at an apology would have gone a long way.

So there it is. My judgement of her right now? Bad person.

And now I have to sit here with a soggy floor and the smell of stale coffee lingering for the next 5.5 hours. AMA. lol.

That’s more than just inconsiderate, that sounds near sociopathic

 

[BlackCrowes]

You can tell a lot about a person by their expression when no one is looking at them. I see so, so many people whose default expression seems to be anger or annoyance.

Sometimes people are just having a bad day