How's the Packer decision to go with Rodgers looking now? (2 Viewers)

[sho nuff]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

 

[zDragon]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

 

[sho nuff]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

I mention a record being a team stat. That is as factual as it gets.1. How its defended does have some to do with it. It was not as if his WR ran a fly and the DB was playing an out and Favre threw the out cut is what I am getting at. Im not saying watching the defender was even near the most important part of it.

2. Sure, no way to know for sure. Im not saying Im 100% sure. But I have yet to see any reason as to why it was not on the QB on that throw.

3. Of course it could be...that is always a possiblity. But nothing I have seen or read in comments after that game suggest that.

I could also mention how the Chiefs also turned another INT into points early in the game too. And he had another one in the first half. And Derrick Johnson likely has 6 off an INT if he holds onto it in the 3rd quarter. It was not a great day for Brett. It was one of the games early in the year that I said if Favre was playing like that, I think GB would be worse off than they had been to that point.

Leon Washington pretty much carried that team that day (not all on him...but a huge long run, and a screen pass he took to the house (one a poorly thrown ball).

THough, their defense did not help them out at the end of the 1st half either.

 

[zDragon]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think the "0-4 in close games" comments are fairly meaningless. I am totally confident in Rodgers' ability to win a close game. He started the season by winning a close game in the biggest pressure cooker one could imagine - a Monday night game against the Vikings with the media circus swirling. He completed over 80% of his passes that night and lead a huge drive late in the 4th qtr (in which he scored on a sneak) to put the Packers up for good. Last week, he lead another huge drive to put the Packers up with under 2 minutes left in the game. Obviously Favre had some heroics over the years, but I would say the past 4-5 seasons or so I was far from confident when we needed a big drive in crunch time. He had become rather unreliable in those situations and I don't think any Packer fan could deny that. Playoff losses to the Giants, and before that the Eagles, are two obvious examples, but certainly there are many more. How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

 

[Stinger Ray]

From the Carolina Game2-10-GB 17 (1:19) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right intended for 80-D.Driver INTERCEPTED by 52-J.Beason at CAR 39. 52-J.Beason to CAR 39 for no gain (80-D.Driver). Did that cost them the game Sho? Or how about in the Tampa game(2:19) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right intended for 80-D.Driver INTERCEPTED by 90-G.Adams [91-G.White] at TB 47. 90-G.Adams to GB 48 for 5 yards (87-J.Nelson).

Did that one pass cost them the game? No.In both situations they were already losing the game prior to the INT during an attempted comeback.Did it help them win? Nope. Did it hurt the team? Yes. Never have denied that.But like I did with Brett's INT against Philly...it should have never happened if another phase of the game had done its job.

Then why are you so big on Brett Favre throwing the interception in the playoffs last year? If another phase of the game (running) had been doing its job, he wouldn't have been in that situation either. He has played well overall, but he has yet to pull out a victory in those close games.

Exactly! sho just can't accept that Rodgers has yet to pull one out.

No...Sho hates when people say Rodgers has yet to pull one out when its not just about Aaron Rodgers.That much you still don't understand.

But the excuses you have provided are usually events during the game that HAPPEN prior to to the time that Rodgers and the Packers have to come back in crunch time. The only excuse you give has any merit is Crosby missing the field goal against the Vikings. As you don't know...QBs are the ones that shoulder the team during the crunch time especially when the ball is in his hands. Again..it is ok, sho. Hopefully this has been a learning experience for Rodgers and it will only make him better. The fact remains he is 0-4 when the game is on the line. It really is going to be ok, sho. People will bring up negative points about Rodgers and Packers this year and into the future. And when Rodgers is gone people will say negative things about the next QB. It really is ok!

 

[Stinger Ray]

I think the "0-4 in close games" comments are fairly meaningless. I am totally confident in Rodgers' ability to win a close game. He started the season by winning a close game in the biggest pressure cooker one could imagine - a Monday night game against the Vikings with the media circus swirling. He completed over 80% of his passes that night and lead a huge drive late in the 4th qtr (in which he scored on a sneak) to put the Packers up for good. Last week, he lead another huge drive to put the Packers up with under 2 minutes left in the game. Obviously Favre had some heroics over the years, but I would say the past 4-5 seasons or so I was far from confident when we needed a big drive in crunch time. He had become rather unreliable in those situations and I don't think any Packer fan could deny that. Playoff losses to the Giants, and before that the Eagles, are two obvious examples, but certainly there are many more. How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

My best guess is that you are a nephew of TT.

 

[sho nuff]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

 

[Stinger Ray]

I think the "0-4 in close games" comments are fairly meaningless. I am totally confident in Rodgers' ability to win a close game.

I'm confident he can win a close game too. However, at this early point in his career he hasn't. It really isn't a big deal because I hope it is a learning tool for Rodgers.

 

[sho nuff]

How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

I brought up something similar earlier that he said he was tired of being Brett Favre at some point too. That he was tired of everyone coming up to him saying, its ok, #4 will do it, lets go get it. That pressure of everyone always thinking he was going to do it or had to do it weighed on him (this by his own accounts...not just me thinking it).I agree that comment struck me big time and something I never want to hear out of my QB.

 

[sho nuff]

From the Carolina Game2-10-GB 17 (1:19) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right intended for 80-D.Driver INTERCEPTED by 52-J.Beason at CAR 39. 52-J.Beason to CAR 39 for no gain (80-D.Driver). Did that cost them the game Sho? Or how about in the Tampa game(2:19) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right intended for 80-D.Driver INTERCEPTED by 90-G.Adams [91-G.White] at TB 47. 90-G.Adams to GB 48 for 5 yards (87-J.Nelson).

Did that one pass cost them the game? No.In both situations they were already losing the game prior to the INT during an attempted comeback.Did it help them win? Nope. Did it hurt the team? Yes. Never have denied that.But like I did with Brett's INT against Philly...it should have never happened if another phase of the game had done its job.

Then why are you so big on Brett Favre throwing the interception in the playoffs last year? If another phase of the game (running) had been doing its job, he wouldn't have been in that situation either. He has played well overall, but he has yet to pull out a victory in those close games.

Exactly! sho just can't accept that Rodgers has yet to pull one out.

No...Sho hates when people say Rodgers has yet to pull one out when its not just about Aaron Rodgers.That much you still don't understand.

But the excuses you have provided are usually events during the game that HAPPEN prior to to the time that Rodgers and the Packers have to come back in crunch time. The only excuse you give has any merit is Crosby missing the field goal against the Vikings. As you don't know...QBs are the ones that shoulder the team during the crunch time especially when the ball is in his hands. Again..it is ok, sho. Hopefully this has been a learning experience for Rodgers and it will only make him better. The fact remains he is 0-4 when the game is on the line. It really is going to be ok, sho. People will bring up negative points about Rodgers and Packers this year and into the future. And when Rodgers is gone people will say negative things about the next QB. It really is ok!

A 9 minute drive to take the lead with under 2 minutes left is not crunch time?Crosby did miss that FG...though, that game is not on him...its on the whole team.Coaching (the ridiculous runs to settle for the long FG), the defenses inability to stop the run or tackle Taylor on the swing pass, the Oline, Rodgers holding the ball too long, the miss, all of it.I know QBs shoulder the team and get the credit for the wins and people kill them on the losses, Im saying I disagree with it. I think he is learning from it...and as he said, he is tired of learning something from losing.The fact remains...he is nothing with the game on the line...this Packer team is 0-4. Again...nowhere does the standing list the QBs record. It lists the team record.People will bring up negative points. I have no problem when they are legit points. I don't argue against those and have agreed with many of them. You notice I have been quite negative about aspects of this team.Please stop trying to talk down to me like Im a child. You are the one who needs to start acting more like a grown up right now.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think the "0-4 in close games" comments are fairly meaningless. I am totally confident in Rodgers' ability to win a close game.

I'm confident he can win a close game too. However, at this early point in his career he hasn't. It really isn't a big deal because I hope it is a learning tool for Rodgers.

When did Larivee call the dagger in the season opener? I was at the game so I missed it, but would guess it was not before the 2 minute warning.

 

[parasaurolophus]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

Nobody ever said you made excuses about the manner in which his INTs occurred. You made excuses about his INTs in the whole scheme of the game. You brush them off as if they dont matter. saying things like they were down by ten already, they had the lead twice, it is a team record, etcthose are excuses for Rodgers'. even bringing up Favre throwing a pick 6 is making an excuse for Rodgers. Its what you do all day. Make excuses for TT, Rodgers, and Grant.

 

[zDragon]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

I mention a record being a team stat. That is as factual as it gets.1. How its defended does have some to do with it. It was not as if his WR ran a fly and the DB was playing an out and Favre threw the out cut is what I am getting at. Im not saying watching the defender was even near the most important part of it.

2. Sure, no way to know for sure. Im not saying Im 100% sure. But I have yet to see any reason as to why it was not on the QB on that throw.

3. Of course it could be...that is always a possiblity. But nothing I have seen or read in comments after that game suggest that.

I could also mention how the Chiefs also turned another INT into points early in the game too. And he had another one in the first half. And Derrick Johnson likely has 6 off an INT if he holds onto it in the 3rd quarter. It was not a great day for Brett. It was one of the games early in the year that I said if Favre was playing like that, I think GB would be worse off than they had been to that point.

Leon Washington pretty much carried that team that day (not all on him...but a huge long run, and a screen pass he took to the house (one a poorly thrown ball).

THough, their defense did not help them out at the end of the 1st half either.

I was going to drop this but oh well.1. No and No. You can tell nothing of what should be going on from watching the defenders. They are running a certain front and coverage. That does not effect my pre-snap play call and you can in no way tell what I intended to run.

So say my WR has a the following read pre-snap --- press 1 release --soft 6. So the defender comes in press and my WR runs an 8.

Tell me how you can even come close to watching the defender react to my WR and know my WR was supposed to run a 1?

It's impossible unless you heard the play call.

2. Exactly how would you know? I did not see the throw your referencing but really no way tell tell other than the ball landed in the wrong place and the wrong time in your perception. The QB is who gets blamed so I'm fine with that. Just don't act like you can tell what was supposed to happen by watching the play.

3. Once again unless they referenced that exact play and went over it in detail you would not know. There's a good chance in post game interview they didn't see what happened. That's why we review film.

Edit for 3: Not to mention each might tell you something different since they read the play differntly.

 

[sho nuff]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

Nobody ever said you made excuses about the manner in which his INTs occurred. You made excuses about his INTs in the whole scheme of the game. You brush them off as if they dont matter. saying things like they were down by ten already, they had the lead twice, it is a team record, etcthose are excuses for Rodgers'. even bringing up Favre throwing a pick 6 is making an excuse for Rodgers. Its what you do all day. Make excuses for TT, Rodgers, and Grant.

I never said the INTs in the Saints game did not matter.I said, when referring to the defense being put in a bad spot because of two of them, that they were down 10 already...in reference to the defense already showing it was bad prior to giving up a TD in one of those drives. It was not in reference to saying they did not matter.Saying they had the lead twice is saying he had already led them from behind and took the lead in the 4th quarter...that it was the defense who gave that lead up...not the offense and Rodgers as some want to blame alot of the defensive struggles on them.The last two games, GB dominated TOP in the first half of the Saints game and the D still gave up 24. Against Carolina, they dominated the total TOP and the D still was let down. At some point, some of you will admit that the defense has just played downright bad at times and its not all on the offense being at fault. It is a team record. Its not an excuse for Rodgers...its a fact.His passes against the Saints were bad...they are his fault. His pass against the Panthers was bad...its his fault.I brought up Favre because YOU brought up his comebacks.But keep whining about it all being excuses. Just laughable.

 

[sho nuff]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

I mention a record being a team stat. That is as factual as it gets.1. How its defended does have some to do with it. It was not as if his WR ran a fly and the DB was playing an out and Favre threw the out cut is what I am getting at. Im not saying watching the defender was even near the most important part of it.

2. Sure, no way to know for sure. Im not saying Im 100% sure. But I have yet to see any reason as to why it was not on the QB on that throw.

3. Of course it could be...that is always a possiblity. But nothing I have seen or read in comments after that game suggest that.

I could also mention how the Chiefs also turned another INT into points early in the game too. And he had another one in the first half. And Derrick Johnson likely has 6 off an INT if he holds onto it in the 3rd quarter. It was not a great day for Brett. It was one of the games early in the year that I said if Favre was playing like that, I think GB would be worse off than they had been to that point.

Leon Washington pretty much carried that team that day (not all on him...but a huge long run, and a screen pass he took to the house (one a poorly thrown ball).

THough, their defense did not help them out at the end of the 1st half either.

I was going to drop this but oh well.1. No and No. You can tell nothing of what should be going on from watching the defenders. They are running a certain front and coverage. That does not effect my pre-snap play call and you can in no way tell what I intended to run.

So say my WR has a the following read pre-snap --- press 1 release --soft 6. So the defender comes in press and my WR runs an 8.

Tell me how you can even come close to watching the defender react to my WR and know my WR was supposed to run a 1?

It's impossible unless you heard the play call.

2. Exactly how would you know? I did not see the throw your referencing but really no way tell tell other than the ball landed in the wrong place and the wrong time in your perception. The QB is who gets blamed so I'm fine with that. Just don't act like you can tell what was supposed to happen by watching the play.

3. Once again unless they referenced that exact play and went over it in detail you would not know. There's a good chance in post game interview they didn't see what happened. That's why we review film.

Edit for 3: Not to mention each might tell you something different since they read the play differntly.

1. No, I can't tell the play call. But watching the DB...I can tell if the QB made a bad play and threw it right to him...or in this case, into double coverage when the Chiefs blew up a screen pass. It was a bad pass...period.2. Because I have watched it several times. There were two defenders...one trailing Jones and one sitting just back a few yards. It was a blown up screen pass and a bad one at that. He should get blamed based on everything I saw. Its not as if it was a good pass that was tipped. It was a poor pass into double coverage on a blown up screen.

3. Again, Im not saying I know for sure 100%. But I have reviewed the film. Id urge you to watch it. I have yet to see or hear any analyst say that was on Jones in that play.

SOme of you want to talk about making excuses...you are making excuses for a play you admit you have not even seen.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

I mention a record being a team stat. That is as factual as it gets.1. How its defended does have some to do with it. It was not as if his WR ran a fly and the DB was playing an out and Favre threw the out cut is what I am getting at. Im not saying watching the defender was even near the most important part of it.

2. Sure, no way to know for sure. Im not saying Im 100% sure. But I have yet to see any reason as to why it was not on the QB on that throw.

3. Of course it could be...that is always a possiblity. But nothing I have seen or read in comments after that game suggest that.

I could also mention how the Chiefs also turned another INT into points early in the game too. And he had another one in the first half. And Derrick Johnson likely has 6 off an INT if he holds onto it in the 3rd quarter. It was not a great day for Brett. It was one of the games early in the year that I said if Favre was playing like that, I think GB would be worse off than they had been to that point.

Leon Washington pretty much carried that team that day (not all on him...but a huge long run, and a screen pass he took to the house (one a poorly thrown ball).

THough, their defense did not help them out at the end of the 1st half either.

I was going to drop this but oh well.1. No and No. You can tell nothing of what should be going on from watching the defenders. They are running a certain front and coverage. That does not effect my pre-snap play call and you can in no way tell what I intended to run.

So say my WR has a the following read pre-snap --- press 1 release --soft 6. So the defender comes in press and my WR runs an 8.

Tell me how you can even come close to watching the defender react to my WR and know my WR was supposed to run a 1?

It's impossible unless you heard the play call.

2. Exactly how would you know? I did not see the throw your referencing but really no way tell tell other than the ball landed in the wrong place and the wrong time in your perception. The QB is who gets blamed so I'm fine with that. Just don't act like you can tell what was supposed to happen by watching the play.

3. Once again unless they referenced that exact play and went over it in detail you would not know. There's a good chance in post game interview they didn't see what happened. That's why we review film.

Edit for 3: Not to mention each might tell you something different since they read the play differntly.

1. No, I can't tell the play call. But watching the DB...I can tell if the QB made a bad play and threw it right to him...or in this case, into double coverage when the Chiefs blew up a screen pass. It was a bad pass...period.2. Because I have watched it several times. There were two defenders...one trailing Jones and one sitting just back a few yards. It was a blown up screen pass and a bad one at that. He should get blamed based on everything I saw. Its not as if it was a good pass that was tipped. It was a poor pass into double coverage on a blown up screen.

3. Again, Im not saying I know for sure 100%. But I have reviewed the film. Id urge you to watch it. I have yet to see or hear any analyst say that was on Jones in that play.

SOme of you want to talk about making excuses...you are making excuses for a play you admit you have not even seen.

just so I understand your point of view going forward...A qb can not win a game by himself, but he can lose it by himself.

Do I have that correct?

 

[zDragon]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

1. Define blown up screen play? What was the actual call and why did two defenders have a better chance at the ball than Jones? Was Jones in position for the play called? Was the actual throw timing based?2. Sure the Saints came out and scored that does not negate the fact that in the 3rd quarter the packers had a pick to the three, followed by a few plays and a pick to the 29, followed by a three and out. The fact is when the offense does not put together consistent drives that move the chains in the field position battle that is a big concern. I3. I made no excuses for the Pick 6. My #2 you right I'm bashing my offense. They did not move the chains and committed two turn overs in a very short amount of time. That is a huge concern and indicates larger problems overall for my offense. Seems like #1 and #3 are almost identical since I feel the same way about them. Heck I even copied and pasted them. So please read a little closer next time.#1 The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.#3 The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.I also acknowledged that the defense needs a look at to. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense.

 

[sho nuff]

just so I understand your point of view going forward...A qb can not win a game by himself, but he can lose it by himself.Do I have that correct?

Nope...that has never been my point of view.I have never said that one pass would have lost the game all by itself.This is the very definition of spin that you are trying.

 

[Challenge Everything]

How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

I brought up something similar earlier that he said he was tired of being Brett Favre at some point too. That he was tired of everyone coming up to him saying, its ok, #4 will do it, lets go get it. That pressure of everyone always thinking he was going to do it or had to do it weighed on him (this by his own accounts...not just me thinking it).I agree that comment struck me big time and something I never want to hear out of my QB.

But I just don't think I can give anything else, aside from the three hours on Sundays, and in football you can't do that. It's a total commitment, and up to this point I have been totally committed.

Is this the quote you two are referring too? If so, it appears to me that he was more than willing to play the game of football for 3 hours a week but at that time his body would not go through the rigors of training, practice, meetings and so on. I certainly do not get the impression he did not want the ball in his hands.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1981580/posts

And... 386 so far. I wonder what your boss thinks?

 

[sho nuff]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

1. Define blown up screen play? What was the actual call and why did two defenders have a better chance at the ball than Jones? Was Jones in position for the play called? Was the actual throw timing based?2. Sure the Saints came out and scored that does not negate the fact that in the 3rd quarter the packers had a pick to the three, followed by a few plays and a pick to the 29, followed by a three and out. The fact is when the offense does not put together consistent drives that move the chains in the field position battle that is a big concern. I3. I made no excuses for the Pick 6. My #2 you right I'm bashing my offense. They did not move the chains and committed two turn overs in a very short amount of time. That is a huge concern and indicates larger problems overall for my offense. Seems like #1 and #3 are almost identical since I feel the same way about them. Heck I even copied and pasted them. So please read a little closer next time.#1 The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.#3 The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.I also acknowledged that the defense needs a look at to. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense.

1. Middle screen to the RB. He was in position...but 2 defenders were there as well. Poor pass that the defender was much closer too. Poor pass as the defense had blown the screen up. There was not chance and a poor pass made it worse.2. Sure its a concern. My point was...with 6 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter....it was not the offenses fault that the D had given up 31 already. It was clear that day that the defense was not stopping anything. Its like some of these coaches going for 2 this year rather than going into OT...thinking their D is not stopping anything so they better try and win now.3. I think you are making excuses for it by continuing to keep questioning a play that was simply not good. It was a bad pass and you keep saying..well, if this or this or this then it may not be the QBs fault. You are making excuses for it and you have not even seen it. I think there are some problems for the offense for sure. But not nearly as many as there have been for the defense and especially not in that game.

 

[zDragon]

Ahhh. My mistake. Still sounds the same to me though.

Umm...who else is to blame for that INT returned for a TD?From what I saw...it was not the WRs fault at all.

Why are we focusing on one play by one player all the sudden when it's a Team that has wins and loses? What had the Team done in the time leading up to said pick six? You need to go A or B.

From what you saw? There's no way you could know if it's the WR's fault or not. You do not have the playbook and have no idea what was called.

We were discussing his comebacks...I simply mentioned why a comeback was needed in that game where he had the lead and gave it up on his own...unlike Rodgers who had the lead, that he did not give up to have to make the comeback.Do you get it?

Yes...the Jets could have done more the rest of that game too.

THe point is...when bringing up comebacks...bringing up one where the player is the reason at the end that a comeback was needed...is a bit out there.

Sure...he could have run a completely different route...though, watching the play, where the pass was, and how it was defended...it does not appear to be the case is what I am saying.

Regardless you made the point about 0-4 being a team stat. That should be regardless of what occurs if that is truly the case. 1. How it was defended has nothing to do with what the offense is doing other than reacting.

2. No way to even know if he was supposed to be in the route much less if he made the right reads.

3. Just because the play looks like it was run right it could easily be a completely botched play which us a viewers would not know.

I'll drop the it looked like it wasn't the WR line to not clog the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine when people say that.

I mention a record being a team stat. That is as factual as it gets.1. How its defended does have some to do with it. It was not as if his WR ran a fly and the DB was playing an out and Favre threw the out cut is what I am getting at. Im not saying watching the defender was even near the most important part of it.

2. Sure, no way to know for sure. Im not saying Im 100% sure. But I have yet to see any reason as to why it was not on the QB on that throw.

3. Of course it could be...that is always a possiblity. But nothing I have seen or read in comments after that game suggest that.

I could also mention how the Chiefs also turned another INT into points early in the game too. And he had another one in the first half. And Derrick Johnson likely has 6 off an INT if he holds onto it in the 3rd quarter. It was not a great day for Brett. It was one of the games early in the year that I said if Favre was playing like that, I think GB would be worse off than they had been to that point.

Leon Washington pretty much carried that team that day (not all on him...but a huge long run, and a screen pass he took to the house (one a poorly thrown ball).

THough, their defense did not help them out at the end of the 1st half either.

I was going to drop this but oh well.1. No and No. You can tell nothing of what should be going on from watching the defenders. They are running a certain front and coverage. That does not effect my pre-snap play call and you can in no way tell what I intended to run.

So say my WR has a the following read pre-snap --- press 1 release --soft 6. So the defender comes in press and my WR runs an 8.

Tell me how you can even come close to watching the defender react to my WR and know my WR was supposed to run a 1?

It's impossible unless you heard the play call.

2. Exactly how would you know? I did not see the throw your referencing but really no way tell tell other than the ball landed in the wrong place and the wrong time in your perception. The QB is who gets blamed so I'm fine with that. Just don't act like you can tell what was supposed to happen by watching the play.

3. Once again unless they referenced that exact play and went over it in detail you would not know. There's a good chance in post game interview they didn't see what happened. That's why we review film.

Edit for 3: Not to mention each might tell you something different since they read the play differntly.

1. No, I can't tell the play call. But watching the DB...I can tell if the QB made a bad play and threw it right to him...or in this case, into double coverage when the Chiefs blew up a screen pass. It was a bad pass...period.2. Because I have watched it several times. There were two defenders...one trailing Jones and one sitting just back a few yards. It was a blown up screen pass and a bad one at that. He should get blamed based on everything I saw. Its not as if it was a good pass that was tipped. It was a poor pass into double coverage on a blown up screen.

3. Again, Im not saying I know for sure 100%. But I have reviewed the film. Id urge you to watch it. I have yet to see or hear any analyst say that was on Jones in that play.

SOme of you want to talk about making excuses...you are making excuses for a play you admit you have not even seen.

1. Once again no. I've seen so may bad timing passes picked it is pitiful. A lot of those the QB does not even consider who's there. The ball is thrown. Could be the WR didn't get there, ran wrong route, QB overthrown, etc. No way for you to tell if it was supposed to be a timing route or if the QB just panicked and threw the ball.Overall I'll take your assumpiton at face value and let you blame it on Farve. Even though it seems to me a lot more could be wrong with the play the way your describing it.

Why would an analyst be any more accurate than you or I in determining that unless they have talked to the coaching staff or are privy to the play called?

 

[sho nuff]

How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

I brought up something similar earlier that he said he was tired of being Brett Favre at some point too. That he was tired of everyone coming up to him saying, its ok, #4 will do it, lets go get it. That pressure of everyone always thinking he was going to do it or had to do it weighed on him (this by his own accounts...not just me thinking it).I agree that comment struck me big time and something I never want to hear out of my QB.

But I just don't think I can give anything else, aside from the three hours on Sundays, and in football you can't do that. It's a total commitment, and up to this point I have been totally committed.

Is this the quote you two are referring too? If so, it appears to me that he was more than willing to play the game of football for 3 hours a week but at that time his body would not go through the rigors of training, practice, meetings and so on. I certainly do not get the impression he did not want the ball in his hands.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1981580/posts

And... 386 so far. I wonder what your boss thinks?

Nope...thats not the quote.As for my boss...I think its fine that I posted 386 times.

I wonder why you are obsessed with that count so much though. Id be concerned if I was employing you.

Here is a tip, quit worrying about my boss, or telling me to go spend time with my family. I don't need your phony concern.

 

[Challenge Everything]

How can anyone forget his press conference in March when he pointedly said that he no longer wanted to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line? That was a shocking comment to me and one that I can't possibly forget.

I brought up something similar earlier that he said he was tired of being Brett Favre at some point too. That he was tired of everyone coming up to him saying, its ok, #4 will do it, lets go get it. That pressure of everyone always thinking he was going to do it or had to do it weighed on him (this by his own accounts...not just me thinking it).I agree that comment struck me big time and something I never want to hear out of my QB.

But I just don't think I can give anything else, aside from the three hours on Sundays, and in football you can't do that. It's a total commitment, and up to this point I have been totally committed.

Is this the quote you two are referring too? If so, it appears to me that he was more than willing to play the game of football for 3 hours a week but at that time his body would not go through the rigors of training, practice, meetings and so on. I certainly do not get the impression he did not want the ball in his hands.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1981580/posts

Nope...thats not the quote.

Than please provide the quote you are referencing so I can better understand your position.

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

"I know I can still play, but it's like I told my wife, I'm just tired mentally. I'm just tired," one of the NFL's greatest players told ESPN's Chris Mortensen in a voice mail message.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/04/b...re_n_89763.htmlThis is hardly new information though.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

 

[zDragon]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

1. Define blown up screen play? What was the actual call and why did two defenders have a better chance at the ball than Jones? Was Jones in position for the play called? Was the actual throw timing based?2. Sure the Saints came out and scored that does not negate the fact that in the 3rd quarter the packers had a pick to the three, followed by a few plays and a pick to the 29, followed by a three and out. The fact is when the offense does not put together consistent drives that move the chains in the field position battle that is a big concern. I3. I made no excuses for the Pick 6. My #2 you right I'm bashing my offense. They did not move the chains and committed two turn overs in a very short amount of time. That is a huge concern and indicates larger problems overall for my offense. Seems like #1 and #3 are almost identical since I feel the same way about them. Heck I even copied and pasted them. So please read a little closer next time.#1 The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.#3 The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.I also acknowledged that the defense needs a look at to. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense.

1. Middle screen to the RB. He was in position...but 2 defenders were there as well. Poor pass that the defender was much closer too. Poor pass as the defense had blown the screen up. There was not chance and a poor pass made it worse.2. Sure its a concern. My point was...with 6 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter....it was not the offenses fault that the D had given up 31 already. It was clear that day that the defense was not stopping anything. Its like some of these coaches going for 2 this year rather than going into OT...thinking their D is not stopping anything so they better try and win now.3. I think you are making excuses for it by continuing to keep questioning a play that was simply not good. It was a bad pass and you keep saying..well, if this or this or this then it may not be the QBs fault. You are making excuses for it and you have not even seen it. I think there are some problems for the offense for sure. But not nearly as many as there have been for the defense and especially not in that game.

I'm not making excuses just pointing out that you have no clue what was supposed to happen on the play and had not clue as to who was at fault. 1. Once again how do you know he was in position. Please describe the route he was supposed to take including depth and his reads. You also have no idea if it was a timing pass. No way you can so it's an assumption.Just so your clear I"m not defending Favre or the pick but pointing out what you tried to state as fact is a huge assumption. 2. The offense not moving the ball for a quarter regardless what the defense doing is a huge concern. So your saying your fine with the offense not moving the ball and creating turn-overs because the defense gave up points? Also your orginal question was what coach would say <insert Favre bash here> was worse than <compliment Rodgers here>. I simply pointed out that of the there scenerios you pointed out this was the worst and that #1 and #3 were identical.3. I never questioned the play. I was pointing out the fact that you have no clue what was supposed to happen so don't act like you did. In fact your originally called it a pass to the WR which is completely different than a screen to the RB. At this point your simply throwing out and trying to keep what sticks. Once again my point was you can not tell who did what right and wrong based on watching the play and can only make assumptions.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

 

[sho nuff]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

1. Define blown up screen play? What was the actual call and why did two defenders have a better chance at the ball than Jones? Was Jones in position for the play called? Was the actual throw timing based?2. Sure the Saints came out and scored that does not negate the fact that in the 3rd quarter the packers had a pick to the three, followed by a few plays and a pick to the 29, followed by a three and out. The fact is when the offense does not put together consistent drives that move the chains in the field position battle that is a big concern. I3. I made no excuses for the Pick 6. My #2 you right I'm bashing my offense. They did not move the chains and committed two turn overs in a very short amount of time. That is a huge concern and indicates larger problems overall for my offense. Seems like #1 and #3 are almost identical since I feel the same way about them. Heck I even copied and pasted them. So please read a little closer next time.#1 The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.#3 The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.I also acknowledged that the defense needs a look at to. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense.

1. Middle screen to the RB. He was in position...but 2 defenders were there as well. Poor pass that the defender was much closer too. Poor pass as the defense had blown the screen up. There was not chance and a poor pass made it worse.2. Sure its a concern. My point was...with 6 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter....it was not the offenses fault that the D had given up 31 already. It was clear that day that the defense was not stopping anything. Its like some of these coaches going for 2 this year rather than going into OT...thinking their D is not stopping anything so they better try and win now.3. I think you are making excuses for it by continuing to keep questioning a play that was simply not good. It was a bad pass and you keep saying..well, if this or this or this then it may not be the QBs fault. You are making excuses for it and you have not even seen it. I think there are some problems for the offense for sure. But not nearly as many as there have been for the defense and especially not in that game.

I'm not making excuses just pointing out that you have no clue what was supposed to happen on the play and had not clue as to who was at fault. 1. Once again how do you know he was in position. Please describe the route he was supposed to take including depth and his reads. You also have no idea if it was a timing pass. No way you can so it's an assumption.Just so your clear I"m not defending Favre or the pick but pointing out what you tried to state as fact is a huge assumption. 2. The offense not moving the ball for a quarter regardless what the defense doing is a huge concern. So your saying your fine with the offense not moving the ball and creating turn-overs because the defense gave up points? Also your orginal question was what coach would say <insert Favre bash here> was worse than <compliment Rodgers here>. I simply pointed out that of the there scenerios you pointed out this was the worst and that #1 and #3 were identical.3. I never questioned the play. I was pointing out the fact that you have no clue what was supposed to happen so don't act like you did. In fact your originally called it a pass to the WR which is completely different than a screen to the RB. At this point your simply throwing out and trying to keep what sticks. Once again my point was you can not tell who did what right and wrong based on watching the play and can only make assumptions.

I would not say I have no clue. I have no absolute certainty...but I have a pretty good clue as to who was at fault.If you want...watch the play. Its on NFL.com...look up highlights by team and look at week 8 for either team.Im done trying to describe the play to you.My original question was not by me...it was another poster who claimed the coach would be ok with the Pick 6 more so than Rodgers INT.It was not an "insert Favre Bash" or "compliment Rodgers". Talk about spin...that is ridiculous.

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

 

[zDragon]

pick 6 or pick against carolina means nothing and you know it. You have made excuses for Rodgers INT against Carolina.You have made excuses for Rodgers picks against the Saints, Say what you want, but that was actually worse than a pick 6. They still scored and it took more time off the clock. I wonder where people get it from?

Pick 6 when you have a lead and are in FG range to put the game away means nothing? Worse than a pick 6?Come on...if you all want to talk about going off the deep end...that right there seals it for you.I did not make an excuse for his INT against Carolina. It was a terrible pass and something he did not need to do at that moment.Saying he had the lead with under 2 minutes is not making an excuse for that pass.Saying the D did not hold up is not making an excuse for that pass.No more than saying Jarrett Bush should have fallen on the fumble late in the NFC title game is making an excuse for Favre's INT.Nor did I ever put that entire loss on that Favre INT and I never will.

you know that if a coach has to choose between two scenarios when losing...QB throws a pick 6 orQB throws a pick and the other team will still score a TD after it.anybody who is not from planet sho nuff would pick pick the first scenario. So yes, Rodgers throwing a pick that was taken back 42 yards to the freakin 3 yard line and they scored a td turned out to be worse for them than a pick 6. Following it with a 3 and out and another INT was pretty crappy too. In fact the three possessions in a row there for the Packers in that saints game was one of the poorest stretches of QB play all season from any QB in the league.

What coach would say throwing a pick 6 when winning the game at the time and in FG range to go ahead by 7 points if they just get a FG is not worse than a QB throwing a game when the team is already losing and just trying to make a comeback.The other team did not score a TD after it.Only in the "lets pile on Sho Nuff" planet does any coach think throwing a pick 6 when up by 4 points and in FG range is better than one when Rodgers did it against Carolina.That is what I was referring to. Not the Saints game.And even the Saints game...the Saints were up by 10 points. In the 3rd quarter. While that INT sucked too...a pick 6 late in a game where you are up 4 and have a chance to go up 7 is probably about equal.And I did not make any excuses for the INTs in the Saints game at all.They were bad passes. I specifically said that eventhough Jennings fell the DB had already made the break on the ball.Please post where I made excuses for INTs in either of those games...otherwise you are just a liar now.

I'd need better examples than what you are giving to put on my coaches hat.1. The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.2. Using Saints. If coming out of half-time my team is down by three and my offense disappears for a quarter I am very concerned. Correcting an offense that just is not getting the job done is a lot more work than re-enforcing an established play and it's associated reads against different fronts and coverages. This example would be a huge concern for me as a coach.3. Using Panthers. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense. On the final drive at 1:30 and pick.The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.As a coach the offense missing for quarters at a time is a far larger concern than my offense giving up a pick in the last 1:30 of a game.

1. It was a blown up screen pass thrown where 2 defenders had a better chance at the ball than Thomas Jones did.2. Coming out of halftime they were down by 3. Coming out of the 1st drive of the 2nd half they were down by 10 and 6:26 was already off the clock before the offense got the ball. I agree those INTs were bad. But to just say the offense is just not getting the job done is not totally true. It was rough right there for sure...but the defense got nothing done that game. That would be a bigger concern for me (and pretty much was to the coaching staff from everything I read).3. Im mad that for the 3rd time they gave up a 40 yard return followed closely by a long pass to the 1. But as much as some of you say Im making excuses...look at your excuses for the pick 6...then look at your #2 and #3 and tell me how you are not just bashing the offense and Rodgers there but excusing Favre on what was a terrible pass by him (one of several that day).The last minute pick was a bad pass in a bad situation when the team was in range to go up by 7 points late in a game.

1. Define blown up screen play? What was the actual call and why did two defenders have a better chance at the ball than Jones? Was Jones in position for the play called? Was the actual throw timing based?2. Sure the Saints came out and scored that does not negate the fact that in the 3rd quarter the packers had a pick to the three, followed by a few plays and a pick to the 29, followed by a three and out. The fact is when the offense does not put together consistent drives that move the chains in the field position battle that is a big concern. I3. I made no excuses for the Pick 6. My #2 you right I'm bashing my offense. They did not move the chains and committed two turn overs in a very short amount of time. That is a huge concern and indicates larger problems overall for my offense. Seems like #1 and #3 are almost identical since I feel the same way about them. Heck I even copied and pasted them. So please read a little closer next time.#1 The last minute pick 6 could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.#3 The last minute pick could easily be a bad read by any one of several offensive players and easily correctable. It could be a very good defensive play only a tape review would tell. Very hard to except the fact it happened and I would be more upset at this situation.I also acknowledged that the defense needs a look at to. Last minute my defense gives up points on a big play to the other teams play maker I'm mad but once again must go to the tape to see what actually happened and if keys were missed or just a great play by offense.

1. Middle screen to the RB. He was in position...but 2 defenders were there as well. Poor pass that the defender was much closer too. Poor pass as the defense had blown the screen up. There was not chance and a poor pass made it worse.2. Sure its a concern. My point was...with 6 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter....it was not the offenses fault that the D had given up 31 already. It was clear that day that the defense was not stopping anything. Its like some of these coaches going for 2 this year rather than going into OT...thinking their D is not stopping anything so they better try and win now.3. I think you are making excuses for it by continuing to keep questioning a play that was simply not good. It was a bad pass and you keep saying..well, if this or this or this then it may not be the QBs fault. You are making excuses for it and you have not even seen it. I think there are some problems for the offense for sure. But not nearly as many as there have been for the defense and especially not in that game.

I'm not making excuses just pointing out that you have no clue what was supposed to happen on the play and had not clue as to who was at fault. 1. Once again how do you know he was in position. Please describe the route he was supposed to take including depth and his reads. You also have no idea if it was a timing pass. No way you can so it's an assumption.Just so your clear I"m not defending Favre or the pick but pointing out what you tried to state as fact is a huge assumption. 2. The offense not moving the ball for a quarter regardless what the defense doing is a huge concern. So your saying your fine with the offense not moving the ball and creating turn-overs because the defense gave up points? Also your orginal question was what coach would say <insert Favre bash here> was worse than <compliment Rodgers here>. I simply pointed out that of the there scenerios you pointed out this was the worst and that #1 and #3 were identical.3. I never questioned the play. I was pointing out the fact that you have no clue what was supposed to happen so don't act like you did. In fact your originally called it a pass to the WR which is completely different than a screen to the RB. At this point your simply throwing out and trying to keep what sticks. Once again my point was you can not tell who did what right and wrong based on watching the play and can only make assumptions.

I would not say I have no clue. I have no absolute certainty...but I have a pretty good clue as to who was at fault.If you want...watch the play. Its on NFL.com...look up highlights by team and look at week 8 for either team.Im done trying to describe the play to you.My original question was not by me...it was another poster who claimed the coach would be ok with the Pick 6 more so than Rodgers INT.It was not an "insert Favre Bash" or "compliment Rodgers". Talk about spin...that is ridiculous.

Your the one that posed the question between the two.I'll look up the play.And it was a bash Favre and compliment rodgers. The fact the two instances you are talking about have the same outcome when review the previous weeks issues and as a coach would be treated the same.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

Each post confirms more of the same. Talking just to talk.

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

Each post confirms more of the same. Talking just to talk.

Have you even read what you just wrote?Im talking to refute some bogus accusations you are making about me personally.Then you post this line and think you did something?Don't go accusing me of basically lying about what Favre said and not expect a reply.

 

[J R]

New Football Outsiders DVOA report is up. Rodgers is the #10 QB by DVOA, Favre #20. Now back to sho nuff versus John Madden's grandchildren.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

Each post confirms more of the same. Talking just to talk.

Have you even read what you just wrote?Im talking to refute some bogus accusations you are making about me personally.Then you post this line and think you did something?Don't go accusing me of basically lying about what Favre said and not expect a reply.

sho nuff doing some serious ownage in this thread

 

[phthalatemagic]

New Football Outsiders DVOA report is up. Rodgers is the #10 QB by DVOA, Favre #20. Now back to sho nuff versus John Madden's grandchildren.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Have you even read what you just wrote?Im talking to refute some bogus accusations you are making about me personally.Then you post this line and think you did something?Don't go accusing me of basically lying about what Favre said and not expect a reply.

But, you did lie. You and another made an accusation. You and another are or have refused to find the statement giving credence to your accusation. You have no "proof" of backing it up and have continued your stance of said quote. If you are not willing to back up your statement, give credence to it, support it, provide evidence of it other than "I heard it or read it"... that is a lie. Is it not? You heard it... where? You read it... where? You believe it, sure, but that does not make it fact. What you affirmed is a pretty big accusation about a guy who's character and career tell the majority it is a statement contradicting how he played the game and how he presented himself. I am no Favre-lover, but I will back him up and his career up when people make asinine comments such as the one you affirmed and the other poster made.

 

[Challenge Everything]

sho nuff doing some serious ownage in this thread

This is true, he has the majority of posts and if this were a business he would be the CEO.

 

[zDragon]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

I thought the consensus was the Team is much better with Favre for this year but Rodgers is the long term solution. So the Team made the right call.

 

[phthalatemagic]

sho nuff doing some serious ownage in this thread

This is true, he has the majority of posts and if this were a business he would be the CEO.

I would appreciate it if you stopped the insults

 

[Challenge Everything]

sho nuff doing some serious ownage in this thread

This is true, he has the majority of posts and if this were a business he would be the CEO.

I would appreciate it if you stopped the insults

Sorry.

 

[sho nuff]

Have you even read what you just wrote?Im talking to refute some bogus accusations you are making about me personally.Then you post this line and think you did something?Don't go accusing me of basically lying about what Favre said and not expect a reply.

But, you did lie. You and another made an accusation. You and another are or have refused to find the statement giving credence to your accusation. You have no "proof" of backing it up and have continued your stance of said quote. If you are not willing to back up your statement, give credence to it, support it, provide evidence of it other than "I heard it or read it"... that is a lie. Is it not? You heard it... where? You read it... where? You believe it, sure, but that does not make it fact. What you affirmed is a pretty big accusation about a guy who's character and career tell the majority it is a statement contradicting how he played the game and how he presented himself. I am no Favre-lover, but I will back him up and his career up when people make asinine comments such as the one you affirmed and the other poster made.

No...I did not lie.You are assuming that because of your feelings about me and Favre. But you really don't know that.He made a statement about recalling something Favre said, I agreed that I heard something like what he claimed.I am now unwilling to keep searching for it because of how you are acting mostly. I don't feel the need to prove anything to someone who acts as you are.I have continued my stance because I recall reading it just like I said.No...its not. Like the word fact you posted above in calling what I recalled as BS...you need to look up what lie means.I don't recall exactly where...that is the point. If I remembered just where I heard or read it, I could easily find it.I only read hundreds of articles and watcher 24/7 news of Favre when he retired. Its not like there was just one article for the whole retirement.I believe it because I remember seeing it.Does it make it fact? Not provable to you no. Does it make it a lie? Not even freakin close.How he "played" the game. That is past tense.When he retired, our claim is that he lost that desire. Meaning, its part of why he retired. There are plenty of quotes provided about losing the desire to play (not yet the exact one i have referred to though). Those comments are contradictory as well to how he played the game...yet you have no problem believing them either.You are showing to be emotionally attached to the guy in most of this.You can call them asinine because you just don't want to believe them.That does not mean he did not ever say it though.It does not make it a lie.

 

[sho nuff]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

I thought the consensus was the Team is much better with Favre for this year but Rodgers is the long term solution. So the Team made the right call.

No, the consensus has never said the team would be "much" better with Favre this year.

 

[zDragon]

New Football Outsiders DVOA report is up. Rodgers is the #10 QB by DVOA, Favre #20. Now back to sho nuff versus John Madden's grandchildren.

Nice site. Looked at the running backs and they have A. Peterson listed at 11 with L. McClain above him. Also has C. Johnson below McClian. Thoughts?Edit: D. Ward #4?

 

[Stinger Ray]

sho nuff doing some serious ownage in this thread

This is true, he has the majority of posts and if this were a business he would be the CEO.

I would appreciate it if you stopped the insults

I am beginning to appreciate the genius that is phthalatemagic.

 

[zDragon]

Quotes like this...

I've given everything I possibly can give to this organization, to the game of football, and I don't think I've got anything left to give, and that's it. I know I can play, but I don't think I want to.

There were others after that day, not in the official speech as well.

A quote like this leads you to the conclusion of, "no longer wanting the ball in his [Favre's] hands with the game on the line." Yes, I am aware those words were originally stated by CletiusMaximus but you affirmed them. If you are taking what Favre said and coming to the conclusion in which you did... that is quite remarkable.

No...when he actually said something to that effect made me think that.I don't recall exactly when he said it...whether it was in print that I read it or heard him in an interview.Im not taking what he said in the quote your provided...or the one I did and turning it into something else.Im saying I have not yet found the exact quote being talked about.There are so many interviews from the past year...its not easy to find quotes when you don't remember the exact wording.

I will wait patiently but I doubt you find something that resembles the hard stance you are claiming he made. Unless you are going to take it out of context and use it how you would like it to come across. But hey, it would not be the first time.

You can wait all you want. I doubt I will look anymore for the quote.You can keep your bogus accusations of what I did with the comment to yourself though.If you want to wonder why I have posted so much in this thread...its because Im dumb enough to feel the need to respond to posts like you just made.My post count would go down tremendously if some of you quit with the ridiculous posts like this.Another poster mentioned what he thought Favre said...I remembered hearing similar comments.I took nothing of Favre out of context to use it how I would like it to come across. IIRC I commented on what he said not long after he said it and had the same reaction...that I don't want the leader of my team feeling that way, and if he felt that way, it was best he was retired. This before all the fiasco in June.

So, you are not going to find the exact quote you "heard" to validate your accusation concerning Favre on this issue. So, another poster posted what he thought Favre said, came to an inaccurate conclusion about the quote, since he nor you will provide said quote, and come to a message board spouting, what is now your thoughts, as "fact" to convince others of what you heard. So, without an exact quote, a conclusion would have to be made that the words Favre spoke were either misheard or have been misrepresented by you concerning this matter. So, another conclusion is you have made yourself think of what you heard is what was actually said which may have caused you to come to false conclusions and are now telling others of your false conclusions and trying to pawn them off as fact. So, the accusation and affirmation by you is complete and utter BS. That is a fact... that what you have said is complete BS. Nice try trying to convince others of complete BS but I believe most in this thread are not buying it and for good reason. But, keep living in your own world.And, 392... = 27.3%

No, Im not going to search for an exact quote more than I already have to appease you.I know what I remember him saying. Im not changing it to bash the guy. I found it odd...obviously, another poster did too.I don't feel the need to convince you. I don't care if you believe what I said or what the other poster said.Without an exact quote you can come to whatever conclusion you want.You can decide to think I misrepresented it or misheard it if you want. You seem to be basing that more on a personal dislike for me and emotional attachment to Brett Favre.That conclusion would not "have to be made". My conclusion is...a poster who does not particularly like me and does not want to believe Favre would say such a thing has his head in the sand because he does not want to think the great Brett Favre would say such a thing. Calling it complete and utter BS is not a fact. You really need to look up what the word fact means. Its your opinion. Nothing more.Most in this thread?You mean the most who at this point seem to agree that going with Rodgers was the right move and that Brett Favre would not be doing much for this Packer team this year?But thanks again for calling BS and saying Im living in my own world and just making it personal once again. And once again I say...grow up. This is getting ridiculous.

I thought the consensus was the Team is much better with Favre for this year but Rodgers is the long term solution. So the Team made the right call.

No, the consensus has never said the team would be "much" better with Favre this year.

I've heard and read that the Packers made the right long term decision but they would be a much better team with Favre at the helm. so pretty sure the conseses i stated is correct.

 

[sho nuff]

That you heard and read it...does not make it a consensus. That is what I am disagreeing with.

I think they might be somewhat better...not "much" better at this point.