Aaron Rodgers might be one of my favorite players in the entire league and I have no real vested interest in the Packers or any hatred towards Brett Favre. It's just beautiful to watch him march his teams up and down the field and toss those bombs with seemingly so little effort. Green Bay has one of the most exciting offence in the NFL and it's because of Rodgers. I'm going to enjoy watching his career.
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How's the Packer decision to go with Rodgers looking now? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ozymandias
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Don't kill the messenger.We can go ahead and lock this thread. Rodgers is already better than Favre ever DREAMED of being.
He is in total control of this offense and doesn't make mistakes. Future Hall of Famer for sure.
I'd be giddy were I a Packers fan.
Favre will get into the Hall because he played a bunch of games in a row or something.Rodgers will get into the Hall because he is about to hang the most prolific numbers the league has ever seen.
EDIT for clarification: I'm obviously not a Green Bay fan, and I don't own Rodgers in any leagues.
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
That's really all that matters. It's preseason. When Rodgers wins a playoff game you can fire up the comparisons to quarterbacks who can win when it counts.
nlgb1
Footballguy
how can you possibly hate on this guy? that was one of the greatest playoff performances in the history of the nfl, yet its irrelevant because their defense couldnt get a stop?dont be stupid
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Rodgers is awesome (and I think I was one of the very few people before the 2008 season who suggested that he could be better than Favre right off the bat), but preseason has nothing to do with it. Joey Harrington looked super awesome in the preseason as well. For quarterbacks, preseason football and regular season football are entirely different sports.
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nlgb1
Footballguy
its just preseason, but also a great appetizer
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
"Stupid" really isn't all that excellent, but it is comical to lump him in the "WIN A PLAYOFF GAME!!!" argument.28/42, 423 yards, 4 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 45 points
If that's not enough to win a game, he's the last guy to point the finger at.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-cardinals/09000d5d815a5f0c
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I don't hate the guy and I don't consider myself stupid because the guy you're comparing to Steve Young couldn't beat the then 0-7 Buccaneers last year. I also don't consider you a genius for touting the guy's preseason stats. I don't care about Rodgers either way, except it's nice to see good young QBs emerging. But until he shows he can win games that really mean something (maybe beating Brett Favre in Green Bay or Minnesota, for example) I'm going to refrain from comparing him to Hall of Fame-caliber QBs. But I'm glad you're enjoying the pretend football.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
The NFL is a win-or-else league. I wouldn't think of Rodgers as a "never won a playoff game" guy until he's being compared to Steve Young and the Colts offense. I think a guy with zero post-season wins needs a little more time before those comparisons become even remotely valid-- and they sure don't become valid based on stats from fake football games. That was an awesome playoff game and I enjoyed it even though I didn't care who won. Rodgers played great...but didn't he fumble the ball away and allowed a defensive score? I know it was controversial and you can always point to "but but but the refs" when something goes wrong...but he doesn't have anything else on his resume to balance it out like Favre does, and he's responsible for more playoff game-ending turnovers than anyone else I can recall. But he also has a lot of playoff wins and a Super Bowl ring. Rodgers didn't hang on to the ball. I don't hate the guy for it, but it's not like he didn't have a role in the loss (just as he did for getting them to overtime).
I don't hate Rodgers at all, but the star-struck comparisons based on preseason football? No, at that point the facts have to come out. He didn't beat Favre either time and he lost his playoff game (even though he played well in those games...it wasn't good enough). Those have been the most important games of his career to date. All I'm saying is I'm not ready for Steve Young comparisons just yet. When he wins a big game I'll be happy to congratulate all his fans. Until then I have let the truth seep into the discussion a little bit.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Manning didn't win his first playoff game until after his 6th season.Young didn't win his first playoff game until after his 8th season.The comparisons are fine with me.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I would have brushed off Hall of Famer comparisons when Young was in Tampa or a backup and when Manning couldn't win playoff games. It was once they, you know, actually did something that I think those comparisons became valid.Rodgers looks like a great fantasy football option. We'll see if he takes the Packers anywhere that matters in games that mean something. He seems to have the receiving weapons with Finley emerging and he has plenty of time to grow into the role. I just don't see him there yet based on pretend football.I don't even think he necessarily needs to win a playoff game to get something significant under his belt. Beat Favre at Lambeau and I think it will be a turning point for him.
The Westin
Footballguy
I understand the common theme of waiting until a player has won playoff games and such before putting him in the ranks of a guy like Manning. Obviously Rodgers isn't there yet, and I think we forget how masterful Manning really is at what he does, because he's been doing it for so long.
For now, I'll just sit back and enjoy the show as many others have said. There is something special about the kid. The poster who was trying to make a point that Rodgers can't win big games, citing the 2 vs Favre and the playoff game, failed to mention that Rodgers played good or great in every one of those matchups.
For now, I'll just sit back and enjoy the show as many others have said. There is something special about the kid. The poster who was trying to make a point that Rodgers can't win big games, citing the 2 vs Favre and the playoff game, failed to mention that Rodgers played good or great in every one of those matchups.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think as far as the OP, the Packers decision appears to be the correct decision. Yeah, they lost to the Vikings twice last season but the Vikings didn't win any more Super Bowls than the Packers did last year. I don't think either team had the juice to beat Indy or New Orleans. This is a new year. The youth movement in Green Bay is starting to mature and Rodgers looks like a legitimate QB.
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Well, I for one am pleased with the way the decision worked out. Even at the time, I thought it would be folly to let Rodgers go without giving him a chance to start (of course, I probably wouldn't have drafted him if I had been making decisions at the time).
That does not mean that how they went about it was ideal. There could have been more transparency and candor. There could have been fewer restrictions placed on the options of where Favre would play. There could have been lots of things worked out if egos had not prevailed on both sides.
With all of that said, I think fantasy boards overestimate how good Rodgers is right now being naturally biased by fantasy numbers. I am pretty sure that for just this season, there are 6 to 8 QBs I would be equally happy with. Of course, that is pretty good company but is a bit early to talk the Hall.
Of course, given his age, I am giddy about future years' prospects.
That does not mean that how they went about it was ideal. There could have been more transparency and candor. There could have been fewer restrictions placed on the options of where Favre would play. There could have been lots of things worked out if egos had not prevailed on both sides.
With all of that said, I think fantasy boards overestimate how good Rodgers is right now being naturally biased by fantasy numbers. I am pretty sure that for just this season, there are 6 to 8 QBs I would be equally happy with. Of course, that is pretty good company but is a bit early to talk the Hall.
Of course, given his age, I am giddy about future years' prospects.
GunslingerEnder
Footballguy
I don't think anyone thinks Rodgers can do it by himself. The team maturing around him while he continues to improve is what people are taking notice of. Young had a very nice cast around him when he took over. Sure, Favre left after the Packers lost the NFC championship, but in 2008 Thompson also overhauled the roster. The loss to Tampa last year showed Thompson and McCarthy that they needed Tauscher back (38-40 sacks in the first 8 weeks, 10 or so over the rest of the season).Neil Beaufort Zod said:
It also showed that people need to take notice of Freeman as he is pretty good himself but that's a different thread. The Packer receivers were dropping passes like crazy at the beginning of last season as well.
The O-Line for the 2010 is probably the best in the McCarthy era and Left Guard isn't set yet.
This is going to be a very fun season to watch as a Packers fan and it's all because of Rodgers. We're excited and the playoff wins will come. I wouldn't be surprised if the first one was against SF.
cr8f
Footballguy
Tampa last year played a very good game. The problem as I saw it is they let them hang around and the longer they did the more confident they became. They needed to put them away earlier and should do that this year.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
When I was watching him yesterday (after being inspired enough to bump this thread), fantasy football never once entered my mind. He is a great REAL LIFE quarterback. He's playing with such a swagger and is in total control of everything out there, like an orchestra conductor. Excellent play from the QB position is a beautiful thing to behold, especially in that particular offense.If Green Bay's defense shows up again the way I expect them to, I'd make the Pack NFC favorites.ookook said:
GunslingerEnder
Footballguy
Without a pass rush the defense is in trouble. Matthews can't do it by himself, and the loss of Jolly will also have a large impact on that. Raji looks good though. Hopefully Neal can develop sooner rather than later.Brad Jones needs to step it up.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I think Rodgers is gonna be a great one, but let me just remind us all that he lit it up last year in the preseason, too, and everyone was all over the Packers bandwagon, only to see them struggle a bit out of the gates in the regular season last year. Now, I understand that we are talking in real terms here, not necessarily fantasy ones, but all I am saying is that we should never get too excited about what we see in preseason.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
If you were talking about my posts (just above yours) I wasn't making the point that he can't win playoff games (just that he hasn't, and therefore doesn't deserve Hall of Famer comparisons) and I absolutely mentioned that he played well in those games.But perhaps you meant someone else.The Westin said:
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
That is a funny strawman, since both players you mentioned won several playoff games without winning a Super Bowl. I think Marino went to the SB in his second year and Elway went to multiple SBs and lost earlier in his career. Even mentioning Rodgers with Elway and Marino at this stage is kind of funny as well, so thank you.So by your standards then Marino was nothing and neither was Elway until he won a SB?Neil Beaufort Zod said:
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
As you should be. You seem more optimistic, actually, and with good reason. But I think others in this thread have become giddy.ookook said:
LawFitz
Footballguy
I find it amusing that so many get their panties in a bunch over comparing Rodgers to past great QBs just b/c he hasn't yet won a playoff game.
Bold prediction: Rodgers will win more than a few playoff games in the next few years.
Bolder prediction: doing so will not make him any better than he is right now.
Dude is a legit stud. His play most certainly warrants comps to any of the past greats. Hanging the argument on lack of playoff wins after just two years as a starter is dubious IMO.
Bold prediction: Rodgers will win more than a few playoff games in the next few years.
Bolder prediction: doing so will not make him any better than he is right now.
Dude is a legit stud. His play most certainly warrants comps to any of the past greats. Hanging the argument on lack of playoff wins after just two years as a starter is dubious IMO.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I have to say, your bolder prediction is quite bold. If you really believe that winning playoff games over the next few years won't make him any better than he is right now...we're watching totally different sports. I think it will make him quite a bit better.And I think you countered your own position. If he only has two years as a starter, comparisons to past greats is silly unless he has some big wins to back it up. He doesn't.And if/when he does get them, it will be because he's developed into a better quarterback than he is right now...which also counters your position.I hope he wins many fantasy championships for everyone (perhaps even for myself, depending on how drafts shake out). But until he wins games that really matter, I'm going to hold off on the Hall of Famer comparisons at this stage of his career. But that's just me. I understand that the preseason creates irrational exuberance for some. His team will be 0-0 in a couple of weeks no matter how well he plays now.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He put up 45 points at Arizona. 45 points.45.
How many points will he put up when he "develops into a better quarterback?" 70?
cr8f
Footballguy
No? Experience winning more intense games(playing under increased pressure) won't make him better?
It will improve his quick decision making at the very least. He's a work in progress and last year he saw what playoff football was I expect better play this year.
cr8f
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Yep... let's also go ahead and blame him for the fact there was no competent referee working the game.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I get your point. He's a good quarterback right now. He played great against Arizona (although neither team put up much fight on defense). He still fumbled the ball in overtime. Favre has proven you can play at a high level and screw up the end of a playoff game, but maybe when he's a better quarterback his team will win the close games instead of losing them, or he'll at least have some of those wins on his resume. He won't leave rivalry games with a nice stat line and another loss. Losing pretty is great for our hobby. Winning (pretty or ugly) is what matters in the NFL. Not saying he won't get there. He just hasn't earned those comparisons right now, no matter how good he looked in dress-rehearsal football. And really, you don't think a few playoff wins will mean he's developed into a better quarterback than he is right now?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
NO!Does he have to play middle linebacker also in order to get a playoff win?Stop fishing already.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Glad a Packer fan understands what I'm trying to say. Maybe I'm not expressing it clear enough for everyone.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Rogers is good, but you're not saying he's almost as good as Farve in his prime, you're not saying Rogers is the better QB right now, you're say Rogers is "better than Farve ever DREAMED of being"... Which is a pretty ridiculous statement. You have to look at a players entire body of work.. I've seen other QB's start out great and end bad... Jim Kelly was a fantastic QB but never won the Big one... Farve has been a fantastic QB, he's been pretty reliable, and certainly has the stats and wins to back up his billing... Rogers looks great, but you seem to be forgetting he hasn't done it yet... You going to give him the stats and wins that he has yet to earn?Raider Nation said:Don't kill the messenger.Carolina Hustler said:We can go ahead and lock this thread. Rodgers is already better than Favre ever DREAMED of being.
He is in total control of this offense and doesn't make mistakes. Future Hall of Famer for sure.
I'd be giddy were I a Packers fan.
Rodgers will get into the Hall because he is about to hang the most prolific numbers the league has ever seen.
EDIT for clarification: I'm obviously not a Green Bay fan, and I don't own Rodgers in any leagues.
Gopher State
Footballguy
very
The D's that Rogers is seeing in the preseason are very plain, let's see if the sacks reappear once were playing for real, I know some say the line got better as the season went on last year, but AZ seemed to have his number for hits in the playoffs. I still think Rogers holds the ball to long, but we will see.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Obviously it was hyperbole to make a point. I could DREAM of being a better basketball player than LeBron James, but it won't happen. Aaron's last two seasons: 8,500 yards, 58 TDs, 20 INTs, 64% completions, almost a 100 QB rating.Rogers is good, but you're not saying he's almost as good as Farve in his prime, you're not saying Rogers is the better QB right now, you're say Rogers is "better than Farve ever DREAMED of being"... Which is a pretty ridiculous statement.Raider Nation said:Don't kill the messenger.Carolina Hustler said:We can go ahead and lock this thread. Rodgers is already better than Favre ever DREAMED of being.
He is in total control of this offense and doesn't make mistakes. Future Hall of Famer for sure.
I'd be giddy were I a Packers fan.
Favre will get into the Hall because he played a bunch of games in a row or something.
Rodgers will get into the Hall because he is about to hang the most prolific numbers the league has ever seen.
EDIT for clarification: I'm obviously not a Green Bay fan, and I don't own Rodgers in any leagues.
Now keep in mind... those were his first two years starting! That's nuts. How much better can he get?
I didn't think Favre had a two-year stretch which could compare, but in fairness I went and looked at his numbers and his stretch from '94-'97 was silly good. But I think when all is said and done and we look back at both of these guys 20 years from now, Rodgers will be thought to be the better QB.
Favre makes WAY too many mistakes. It seems as though he is almost personally responsible for losing as many games as he wins. The end of the NFCCG last year... I know his ankle was killing him, but all he had to do was suck it up and fall forward for a couple of yards on that ONE LAST PLAY to set up a GW FG by Longwell. Instead he throws across the field and it gets picked. I have a hard time believing that Rodgers would even think about making that throw in that spot.
You win with Favre's gunslinger mentality, and you lose with it also. Rodgers values the ball more.
nlgb1
Footballguy
he lit it up in preseason, then lit it up in the regular season too. dont see what youre saying here.i dont think anyone here is making comparisons based on preseason, so enough with those comments. how about the fact that in his first 2 years as a starter hes thrown 58 touchdowns and 20 ints and 8400 yards? or that in his first postseason apperance, he played like hes been there a million times before?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Yeah, but they lost so it doesn't count.
nlgb1
Footballguy
i hope youre not serious
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
No, nlgb1. I'm not serious.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I don't think he is being overestimated because of fantasy at all.The kid has such great control of the offense, a rocket arm, and is smart with the football.I don't agree that he is better than Favre ever was...yet...but he could get to that point if he can last and keep this up (and can prove he can do it when it matters late in games, late in the season, and in the postseason).ookook said:
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Am I allowed to agree with you Sho?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
So you didn't think Favre had a 2-year stretch which compared, even though he won 3 consecutive MVP awards?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Thanks, wasn't aware of that.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
What's so funny?And thanks for the heads up. I had no idea Favre won MVP awards.
Yes, I thought Aaron's two-year numbers would have been better than any Favre stretch. One, because Rodgers had numbers which would have been MVP-worthy in many years. Two, because Favre won his MVPs 15 years ago. The game has changed dramatically in that time. Much more of a passing game now with the rules governing defensive contact changing.
Go look at some of the MVP seasons from only 20 years or so ago.
Montana for instance, who won it in '89 & '90.
1989: 3,521 yards, 26 TDs, 8 INTs
1990: 3,944 yards, 26 TDs, 16 INTs
Or Steve Young.
1992: 3,465, 25 TDs, 7 INTs
Rodgers stats last season (4,434 / 30 / 7 ) would compare favorably to any of Favre's 3 MVP seasons.
If you have any other questions you'd like answered, I'll be around.
Jobber
Footballguy
Why did you leave out Favre's last season (4,202 / 33 / 7) - where Rodgers comes up short on as well.What's so funny?And thanks for the heads up. I had no idea Favre won MVP awards.
Yes, I thought Aaron's two-year numbers would have been better than any Favre stretch. One, because Rodgers had numbers which would have been MVP-worthy in many years. Two, because Favre won his MVPs 15 years ago. The game has changed dramatically in that time. Much more of a passing game now with the rules governing defensive contact changing.
Go look at some of the MVP seasons from only 20 years or so ago.
Montana for instance, who won it in '89 & '90.
1989: 3,521 yards, 26 TDs, 8 INTs
1990: 3,944 yards, 26 TDs, 16 INTs
Or Steve Young.
1992: 3,465, 25 TDs, 7 INTs
Rodgers stats last season (4,434 / 30 / 7 ) would compare favorably to any of Favre's 3 MVP seasons.
If you have any other questions you'd like answered, I'll be around.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Because the post to which I was replying had nothing to do with Favre's 2009 season?He had a great season last year, no doubt. He even limited his turnovers. Hell, it only took 19 years.Why did you leave out Favre's last season (4,202 / 33 / 7) - where Rodgers comes up short on as well.What's so funny?And thanks for the heads up. I had no idea Favre won MVP awards.
Yes, I thought Aaron's two-year numbers would have been better than any Favre stretch. One, because Rodgers had numbers which would have been MVP-worthy in many years. Two, because Favre won his MVPs 15 years ago. The game has changed dramatically in that time. Much more of a passing game now with the rules governing defensive contact changing.
Go look at some of the MVP seasons from only 20 years or so ago.
Montana for instance, who won it in '89 & '90.
1989: 3,521 yards, 26 TDs, 8 INTs
1990: 3,944 yards, 26 TDs, 16 INTs
Or Steve Young.
1992: 3,465, 25 TDs, 7 INTs
Rodgers stats last season (4,434 / 30 / 7 ) would compare favorably to any of Favre's 3 MVP seasons.
If you have any other questions you'd like answered, I'll be around.
