How's the Packer decision to go with Rodgers looking now? (2 Viewers)

[zDragon]

I think the Packers would be 5-10 or worse if Favre was still there. It's ridiculous blaming Rodgers for all this and thinking Favre would have made a difference, especially since Rodgers has played MUCH better than Favre this year.

You do understand they are in two different systems and have different experience levels in each.Favre is new to the system he is playing in and has to learn the system and get more of it on the fly. Rodgers has practiced and played in the Packers system for what 3 years now? Big difference so comparing the two's output just on that level alone isn't very productive.

This is pure spin...you whine about me spinning.But Favre is a 15 year vet...its week 17 coming up...when will the new system excuse be played out? He has been in the system for quite some time now...its time to give it up.No system out there is it ok for a QB to throw off his backfoot, across his body like Favre tried the other day. That was great when he was younger...not so much now. That...and for all the flack Rodgers has taken about holding the ball too long...did you see Favre in Seattle?Comparing a 1st year starter to a 15 year vet...the new system thing is pretty much a wash IMO.And Brett is a 3 time MVP... I think at this point he should be able to pick up a new system pretty quick and should not need the rest of you to make excuses for his poor play.

You just showed you lack of football knowledge and how the offensive systems are put in and work.

You claim me saying I don't think you know the meaning of the word spin is an insult...but come back with this one?No, I think some of you make Favre to be so much...his leadership and experience means so much.But after 16 weeks are still making excuses for the guy playing poorly.Its completely ridiculous.

No I was stating a fact. You showed a lack of football knowledge in the statement especially at the NFL level.What on earth does learning a new system have to do with the leadership stuff again? Once again trying to move the conversation away from the original point.Once again your just showing a lack of football knowledge and what it takes to put in a full offensive or defensive system if you think a QB goes in and learns a completely new system right out of the box. Sure he knows more of it but nothing like he did the GB system or Rodgers being in the GB system for 3 years. The difference between being a vet and semi-rookie is how you execute the parts of the system you know.

Im blad you think you have so much football knowledge...though, you have yet to show it.I was never trying to move any conversation away...you are full of spin (as usual).So...when will he learn a new system?When did I say right out of the box...its freakin week 17 coming up. When will he learn?And in what system is throwing the ball the way he did the other day a good thing? Please enlighten me oh king of football knowledge.Being a Vet...he should have a better grasp of basic concepts, the speed of the game, reading defenses...making his experience even in a new system pretty close to a first year starter who already knows the system.Using it as an excuse when the guy has played flat out bad for the past few weeks is weak...very weak. The guy is a 3 time MVP...does he need any more excuses made for playing like crap?

Thanks. Really maybe your ignoring it. You seem to write off things that go against your way of thinking.Wrong.When we he learn 100% of the base plays, formations, protections, and motions against all the defensive looks he might be shown? Not sure but I'm fairly certain he's not there yet. A lot of it is getting reps and looks. Throwing the ball off your back foot or whatever you described is bad technique and not part of any system so I don't understand the question. So the insult looks silly when you show you don't know the difference.So Rodgers is in the system for three years and doesn't know the system he's worked on? You expect Favre to know more about a new system because he's a vet and rodgers is a first year starter? Ahh, there's the key STARTER. You ignore the fact Rodgers has been in the Packer system for three years nice thing to ignore to make your point.Learning it as far as Favre is concerned depends on how different it is from the Packer system.

 

[zDragon]

That is the correct reaction to that post.

Not even close. Do you really think the reporters are going to use names of exectuives when they make those reports or make up things like that? I provide links and yet the Favre haters still try to diminish it. Give me break. You are fooling yourself if you think those reports are not true.

I meant your eyeroll was correct. I found it humorous that people were asking for links but what they REALLY want are the names...which for the very reason you listed would be impossible to get. We've ALL read those reports of NFL insiders bashing the handling in the offseason, but I guess some people have conveniently forgotten how ridiculous the whole saga was, what with the bribing and everything. I was simply posting before all the other hangers-on could deny those reports the same as they attempted to deny Favre's return as a rumor as well. It's the predictable response from posters who would dare to question your assertation in the first place. These requests for links to common knowledge gets pretty annoying, especially when the people who are requesting the links are telegraphing their denial way ahead of time.

Other than Scotty being completely incorrect.I did not want names...I wanted any bit of substance to support Stinger's point. He failed in that big time.We read a few reports of insiders saying they mishandled it (but that is not what was stated by Stinger).The Bribing is the dumbest one out there given when it was first brought up was before the guy even retired."they" attempted to deny Favre's return. No, Scotty is referring to me. Because Favre himself claimed it was a rumor when it first came out. At the time...its all it was. Reports that he might want to return...which he himself denied.I claimed it was a rumor (factually I might add) and wanted confirmation. When the confirmation came, people went nuts on the rumor comment. This is the predictable type reply from Scotty though.And no, it is not common knowledge that the Packers organization lost alot of respect around the league.If it was so common...someone would be able to post a single link saying so.Instead...we get one quote from an NFL exec talking about how they mishandled it...2 writer's opinion...and a guy talking about a veteran backup QB.Yet the usual suspects do their usual. simply because it was a response to one of my posts.

I guess you will dismiss the rant that Terry Bradshaw had on the FOX pregame show about Thompson and the mistake they made by running Favre out of Green Bay.

What team does Bradshaw work for or represent?He is no longer "around the league". He is an employee of Fox Sports.And again...him saying they made a mistake does not equal the organization losing alot of respect around the league.You are spinning around and around and not even coming close to the statement you made.

Interesting how NFL insiders know nothing and mean nothing.

 

[zDragon]

Umm...if you take away the 2 missed FGs...they would have had 2 wins in crunch time with drives the offense did lead.They would count as much as Favre and the Jets win against Buffalo and Indy's win a few weeks ago where the defense pulled the victory.And if you come up with Rodgers had nothing to do with it...we surely know you are full of it.

In the Minnesota game, Rodgers was given the ball at their own 41 with 2:15 left. He moved them 23 yards in 1:44. Getting them in position for a 50 plus yard FG is hardly impressive at all. The play-calling was a bit too conservative, but that probably had a lot to do with how ineffective Rodgers and the passing game had been for most of the day. In the Chicago game, thanks to a great special teams return and a bad penalty by the Bears, they started with the ball at the Chicago 35 with 3:05 left. Rodgers moved them a whole 15 yards in 2:40. Real impressive! Face it: He has sucked in crunch time this year, and the numbers quite clearly demonstrate that. You won't admit it, but they are there for everyone to see. Later.

That's the defenses fault. If they had gotten the ball to him on the 10 no way they don't score. A few picks would have helped also. Don't forget coaching. Oh yeah, don't forget the Special Teams was supposed to return the ball to inside the 10. Like I said earlier no way they don't score from there.

So you think defense was great all game?Special teams too?Do you put any blame anywhere but on Rodgers?

You left out the coaching excuse also that is used a lot to. Please don't forget it.Meh. They missed a few tackles but played pretty well for the conditions.

You are showing it is pointless trying to talk to you.You just won't answer simple and direct questions...youd rather just keep taking shots at Rodgers and me...while making excuses for everyone else.

Where did I take a shot at rodgers in that comment? I've yet to take a shot at you outside of stating you showed a lack of football knowledge in one post. you have continuilly bashed me.Do I need to start adding my tag for you to understand again. I do not excuse the defense but they are not much worse than they were last year. Please quit misstating my point of few.

 

[zDragon]

Why wouldn't they exist as at least anonymous sources? I see it going the other way. Interesting you can't find any.What that you trying to make it look like your view is from the league and everyone else just the fans? So now the insult is I need to grow up. Nice, keep'em coming.

First of all, I did not make the statement as a fact like Stinger did claiming they lost alot of respect.I gave my opinion and nothing more.There will not always be sources and you are asking for links to prove a negative.As usual...jumping into something that had nothing to do with you...and the point going right over your head.And stop with the insult crap...you will know it if I decide to insult you.I tell you to grow up, because your posts are quite childish.

I asked for you to add evidence of such. THe other poster did.THe other posted found supporting evidence the other way.Why should I not point out when you insult me?And another insult.

 

[zDragon]

I think the Packers would be 5-10 or worse if Favre was still there. It's ridiculous blaming Rodgers for all this and thinking Favre would have made a difference, especially since Rodgers has played MUCH better than Favre this year.

You do understand they are in two different systems and have different experience levels in each.Favre is new to the system he is playing in and has to learn the system and get more of it on the fly. Rodgers has practiced and played in the Packers system for what 3 years now? Big difference so comparing the two's output just on that level alone isn't very productive.

This is pure spin...you whine about me spinning.But Favre is a 15 year vet...its week 17 coming up...when will the new system excuse be played out? He has been in the system for quite some time now...its time to give it up.No system out there is it ok for a QB to throw off his backfoot, across his body like Favre tried the other day. That was great when he was younger...not so much now. That...and for all the flack Rodgers has taken about holding the ball too long...did you see Favre in Seattle?Comparing a 1st year starter to a 15 year vet...the new system thing is pretty much a wash IMO.And Brett is a 3 time MVP... I think at this point he should be able to pick up a new system pretty quick and should not need the rest of you to make excuses for his poor play.

You just showed you lack of football knowledge and how the offensive systems are put in and work.

No, I think some of you make Favre to be so much...his leadership and experience means so much.

His leadership and experience did mean a lot to the Packers and that is one reasons that young team went 13-3 last year.Now you can't get back to doing everything you can to diminish Favre.

Sure...it was a reason, never have I denied this.The point remains...that continuing to make excuses for a 15 year vet not grasping the offense yet.When exactly will he get that throwing a duck off your back foot across your body and across the field is not a good thing?

You do not appear to understand what goes into putting an offensive system in takes. That's fine nothing wrong with that. Since when is learning an offensive system related to throwing a duck off your back foot? You realize the difference correct?

Umm...you do not appear to understand that its week 17 now...I think the guy should have grasped the system by now.His play has been bad...quit making excuses for him.

Yep i do. I also realize depending on the system he may not have a full grasp of it which you do not. Not an excuse a point to consider.

 

[zDragon]

http://www.scoresreport.com/2008/07/31/did...o-stay-retired/

"the Packers have grossly mishandled the situation."

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/06/...arthy-thompson/

"But given the manner in which McCarthy and Thompson have mishandled Favre’s attempt to return, some league insiders think that both men could be in danger, if the team tanks in 2008.

Said one team executive, “I can’t believe how the front office has ^&*$% up this thing. He is one of the two or three best all time players in franchise history. You can’t treat him like a piece of dirt. I would bet that this is going to end up costing a few people their jobs next January.”

http://m.si.com/news/sp/archive/detail/104...C8A.cnnsilive9i

"Green Bay general manager Ted Thompson may have mishandled this entire affair by being out of touch with Cook and virtually unreachable to Favre during the last three months."

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/0...-tavern-talk-8/

"I was talking to a GM in the league today and even he was surprised that the Packers still refuse to bring in a veteran QB to back up and help Rodgers. I think it is a dangerous move and Green Bay needs to hope Rodgers can hold up. Risky business here."

Lets take these one by one.First one...how is that a source from around the league...its one guy's opinion who starts out with his bias of the "tried to bribe" him line. Funny how that "bribe" was offered to Favre before he even retired and Andrew Brandt knew about it even before he left the Packers.

First link...utter fail.

2nd one.

Hey, you found a team exec. One.

So...a pass for now.

3rd one.

"may have mishandled".

And Peter King is not "around the league".

Another utter fail.

4th link.

Not sure what you were linking to there...nothing like that in the actual article linked.

And...it was about not getting a backup...not even about the situation.

And even I said not having a backup was a mistake.

Worst fail of all.

Being generous that you actually found one...I will give you a 1-3.

Though, the one was just one exec...a far cry from your claim of how badly people around the league looked at the Packers Org.

Wrong....you missed this part.."But given the manner in which McCarthy and Thompson have mishandled Favre’s attempt to return, some league insiders think that both men could be in danger, if the team tanks in 2008.

That is more than one, sho.... but you just keep being in denial about this.

Like I said...I give you one out of 3.Thinking they mishandled it is also far and away from your original claim that they lost alot of respect around the league.

Even saying they mishandled it is not saying they lost alot of respect around the league.

So, Im no longer generous...you get an 0-4 and a complete and total fail in linking anything showing they have lost alot of respect around the league.

Please try again...no, better yet...please save us all the ridiculous spin you are about to bring.

So I see you still have not posted any useful information supporting your side.

I see you still don't get the point.My side is that I asked Stinger to back up his claim that they have lost alot of respect around the league and he has been unable to do so.

What kind of support do you expect me to post other than my asking him to back it up?

Wouldn't that make your stance that they have not lost respect around the league?

 

[zDragon]

This next part is unverified at this point...pulled it off another board...Id think it would keep a few of you quiet if true...but I doubt it...

In the 4th quarter of Jets games within 7 points (Jets winning by 7 or less, or losing by 7 or less), Favre's QB rating is 50 something

Instead just cue up the diminishing comments that are sure to come.

And you knock other people sources.I think everyone knows Favre has struggled lately and is an old man. Isn't that still a higher ranking than what they posted for Rodgers this week on MNF?

I stated specifically it was unverified.

How does that effect the fact it's still not as good a source as others have posted?

 

[zDragon]

I'll point to the Pro-bowl vote again as proof that Favre did not lose the respect most claim. Otherwise he would not be in on name alone. If he did lose respect then the voters put him in on his achievements on the field.

Good job...care to point out where most claim Favre lost respect?I believe it was one poster.

Where did i even come close to stating that more than one person said that? I simply pointed something out to said poster.Why does it matter to you one way or the other if it's one person or many that I"m replying to?

 

[zDragon]

Favre haters thinks that. Rational people do not.

The word rational should not enter this thread. There isn't much rational thought coming from either side at this point with the Roger's haters being ahead down the backstretch by half a link on the mind numbing drivel being spewed about.

Where are those of us who really don't care one way or the other?

You don't care yet you are trying to catch my post count?Now, don't take that as hypocritical as I think counting posts is a bit out there.But obviously, as a Packer fan, I care about the topic. If you don't care...why are you till in here?

Don't care about your post count.ummm...no comment on this one.I thought you've figured that out by now. I don't care about the Packers, Favre or Rodgers.

 

[Aaronstory]

Favre haters thinks that. Rational people do not.

The word rational should not enter this thread. There isn't much rational thought coming from either side at this point with the Roger's haters being ahead down the backstretch by half a link on the mind numbing drivel being spewed about.

Where are those of us who really don't care one way or the other?

You don't care yet you are trying to catch my post count?Now, don't take that as hypocritical as I think counting posts is a bit out there.But obviously, as a Packer fan, I care about the topic. If you don't care...why are you till in here?

I don't care about the Packers, Favre or Rodgers.

... he said 50 pages into a thread about all three...

 

[Traders2001]

Favre is totally finished and the Pack did the right thing , they would nt have won more games with Favre and the Jets would have been as good or even better keeping Pennington.

 

[bcr8f]

Favre is totally finished and the Pack did the right thing , they would nt have won more games with Favre and the Jets would have been as good or even better keeping Pennington.

This thread is like an old friend. I visit it several times a day. As for Favre I'm not so sure. He did elicit confidence in his young teammates and they never thought a game couldn't be won. He may have won several more games, but who knows for sure? I doubt it matters because I doubt they would have been a playoff team.They did do the right thing because Rodgers needed playing time. Now with a year as starter he needs to work on improving.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

 

[Phurfur]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

GB didn't take a step back, it fell off the face of the Earth. 5-10, 4th worst team in the NFC from 13-3, 2nd best record in the NFC in one season. Rodgers is less than 300 yards away from a 4k yard season. Clearly the issue wasn't the QB this year, but how much worse did the GB front office make things by dragging everything out this offseason and choosing to leave the most inexperienced team in the NFL without trusted veteran leadership? That is why they never could recover from any of the close losses.Even if Rodgers > Favre this year, the poorly way it the switch was handled must have trickled down to all the players and coaches and that is why this season is such a massive failure. If the team lost nothing when they traded Favre, they earned a black mark that stuck with them all season long.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

GB didn't take a step back, it fell off the face of the Earth. 5-10, 4th worst team in the NFC from 13-3, 2nd best record in the NFC in one season. Rodgers is less than 300 yards away from a 4k yard season. Clearly the issue wasn't the QB this year, but how much worse did the GB front office make things by dragging everything out this offseason and choosing to leave the most inexperienced team in the NFL without trusted veteran leadership? That is why they never could recover from any of the close losses.Even if Rodgers > Favre this year, the poorly way it the switch was handled must have trickled down to all the players and coaches and that is why this season is such a massive failure. If the team lost nothing when they traded Favre, they earned a black mark that stuck with them all season long.

 

[Phurfur]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so.

Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

GB didn't take a step back, it fell off the face of the Earth. 5-10, 4th worst team in the NFC from 13-3, 2nd best record in the NFC in one season. Rodgers is less than 300 yards away from a 4k yard season. Clearly the issue wasn't the QB this year, but how much worse did the GB front office make things by dragging everything out this offseason and choosing to leave the most inexperienced team in the NFL without trusted veteran leadership? That is why they never could recover from any of the close losses.Even if Rodgers > Favre this year, the poorly way it the switch was handled must have trickled down to all the players and coaches and that is why this season is such a massive failure. If the team lost nothing when they traded Favre, they earned a black mark that stuck with them all season long.

You blame TT and I blame Favre, that is also the only difference between most of the opinions in this thread.

 

[hauser42]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

GB didn't take a step back, it fell off the face of the Earth. 5-10, 4th worst team in the NFC from 13-3, 2nd best record in the NFC in one season. Rodgers is less than 300 yards away from a 4k yard season. Clearly the issue wasn't the QB this year, but how much worse did the GB front office make things by dragging everything out this offseason and choosing to leave the most inexperienced team in the NFL without trusted veteran leadership? That is why they never could recover from any of the close losses.Even if Rodgers > Favre this year, the poorly way it the switch was handled must have trickled down to all the players and coaches and that is why this season is such a massive failure. If the team lost nothing when they traded Favre, they earned a black mark that stuck with them all season long.

Most of the players did not really know Favre, he only had Driver and Rob Davis who he had been around form any certain amount of time. Favre was not around the locker room with the team over the last couple of years, so he was not missed in the locker room. To think a player puts forth less effort because there is no Favre on the field is crazy.

 

[Ozymandias]

I missed Favre's 4th quarter comeback. How did he pull it off?

 

[phthalatemagic]

zDragon with the ever elusive 9 consecutive post streak in this thread

solid work

 

[Mr.Pack]

zDragon with the ever elusive 9 consecutive post streak in this threadsolid work

I don't care about the Packers, Favre or Rodgers.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

I missed Favre's 4th quarter comeback. How did he pull it off?

Dammit, I had ShoNuff in the Sunday thread bump pool!!!!!!!!!

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

 

[scott72]

Assuming Rodgers would struggle a bit in his first year, I'd say it's good they got it out of the way this season. If they hadn't, they would have gotten a mediocre Favre AND had to deal with Rodgers' growing pains next year. Seems to me that they saved a year by doing so. Plus, if Favre gets the Jets to the playoffs, even if they're one-and-done...he's a hero to them. Kind of a win-win.

why do you assume Rodgers would struggle?Would you say Rodgers play has progressed as the year has gone on?

I think everyone one knew GB would take a step back when Favre left, it was a matter of when to do it. I think the timing was perfect.

GB didn't take a step back, it fell off the face of the Earth. 5-10, 4th worst team in the NFC from 13-3, 2nd best record in the NFC in one season. Rodgers is less than 300 yards away from a 4k yard season. Clearly the issue wasn't the QB this year, but how much worse did the GB front office make things by dragging everything out this offseason and choosing to leave the most inexperienced team in the NFL without trusted veteran leadership? That is why they never could recover from any of the close losses.Even if Rodgers > Favre this year, the poorly way it the switch was handled must have trickled down to all the players and coaches and that is why this season is such a massive failure. If the team lost nothing when they traded Favre, they earned a black mark that stuck with them all season long.

Most of the players did not really know Favre, he only had Driver and Rob Davis who he had been around form any certain amount of time. Favre was not around the locker room with the team over the last couple of years, so he was not missed in the locker room. To think a player puts forth less effort because there is no Favre on the field is crazy.

This season's failure had nothing to do with Favre not being here. Favre didn't play defense. Both lines were terrible this year. The Corey Williams trade hurt, and injuries really finished off the D line. The lack of pass rush had a huge effect on the linebackers/secondary play. That said the secondary still managed to generate a lot of turnovers. The offense struggled at times, mainly from the lack of being able to convert close 3rd downs and lack of a consistent running game. If you put Favre on this team I don't think it would have mattered, in fact it may have been worse. Brett clearly lost his effectiveness down the stretch again, just like last year. I don't think you can argue with Arod's numbers and how effective he was this year. Next year TT needs a monster draft. Priority #1 is D line for sure. He also needs to make a couple free agent splashed as well. There were guys out there that could of helped us, but TT refused any of them.

 

[scott72]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

The draft has let them down, the coaching has let them down, the depth has let them down. It will take a dramatic turnaround in philosophy regarding free agents to turn this team around inside of one season, and it's clear that TT is too stubborn to change horses midstream.

 

[scott72]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

The draft has let them down, the coaching has let them down, the depth has let them down. It will take a dramatic turnaround in philosophy regarding free agents to turn this team around inside of one season, and it's clear that TT is too stubborn to change horses midstream.

Well like I said TT's gotta change. His job depends on it. The coaching has been bad. I look for Stock and Sanders to be out. I really think there's talent on the team and it's a few pieces away from the playoffs. I know it sounds like I'm drinking the kool-aid, but other than both lines, I really think the talent is there, and with the right coaching they'll be back in the playoffs.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

The draft has let them down, the coaching has let them down, the depth has let them down. It will take a dramatic turnaround in philosophy regarding free agents to turn this team around inside of one season, and it's clear that TT is too stubborn to change horses midstream.

Well like I said TT's gotta change. His job depends on it. The coaching has been bad. I look for Stock and Sanders to be out. I really think there's talent on the team and it's a few pieces away from the playoffs. I know it sounds like I'm drinking the kool-aid, but other than both lines, I really think the talent is there, and with the right coaching they'll be back in the playoffs.

It is delusion to think they underachieved to the tune of a 4 game difference in skill. The Packers lost to some bad teams this year. Ergo, they are a bad team, and that's all that needs to be said.

 

[Sabertooth]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

 

[scott72]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

And you're also not on touch with our team like we are. You're on the outside looking in and probably hoping they suck again next year. Say what you want, but don't be surprised if they bounce back with a solid year and make the playoffs. They're not that far away at all no matter how you spin it.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

And you're also not on touch with our team like we are. You're on the outside looking in and probably hoping they suck again next year. Say what you want, but don't be surprised if they bounce back with a solid year and make the playoffs. They're not that far away at all no matter how you spin it.

How am I spinning the Packers record? They certainly earned it, I'm not making things up, no matter how much you might wish I were.

 

[Eviloutsider]

6-10 with more points scored than given up. If the line next year for the Packers is 8 wins or less, I would put money on the over in a heartbeat.

 

[ScottyFargo]

6-10 with more points scored than given up. If the line next year for the Packers is 8 wins or less, I would put money on the over in a heartbeat.

One might wonder how many people were burned betting that this year?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never change how bad the Packers have been the last four seasons.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never change how bad the Packers have been the last four seasons.

How many Packer games have you watched this year? Two? You have no clue as usual

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never change how bad the Packers have been the last four seasons.

How many Packer games have you watched this year? Two?

You have no clue as usual

I watched them narrowly defeat the Vikings, and lose to the Vikings, Jags, Texans, and Bears. Is that not enough of a sample of their six wins and 10 losses?Edit: I forgot, I watched them lose to the Bucs this year too. Too many losses to remember!

 

[scott72]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

And you're also not on touch with our team like we are. You're on the outside looking in and probably hoping they suck again next year. Say what you want, but don't be surprised if they bounce back with a solid year and make the playoffs. They're not that far away at all no matter how you spin it.

How am I spinning the Packers record? They certainly earned it, I'm not making things up, no matter how much you might wish I were.

Why do you invest so much time analyzing our team? You don't have one of your own to root for?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

This has been an interesting 50 page discussion this season. The original question of course was conclusively answered for most people many weeks ago. Obviously Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy recognized what most Packer fans have now accepted - that Favre was not ready to lead an NFL team this season and the best interests of the team are with Aaron Rodgers. Packer fans have to be happy to have made this transition to a QB who appears to have a great future ahead of him (imagine being a Bears, Vikings, or Lions fan right now, realizing that the Packers still have the best QB in the division and likely will have for many years to come). I'm excited to see how good this guy can be with a full offseason to prepare without a circus side-show going on every day and "fans" booing him at training camp.

The larger issue of course is the overall state of the team. We are all disappointed with the record this year, but I have no doubt that the Packers are the best team in the division right now and have several young exciting players who could make the leap next season (as well as a few that have to go). The Packers were outplayed in only two games this year (Dallas and NO), played even with Tampa, and outplayed every other opponent they faced. Their failure to finish close games is disturbing, but I think a by-product of the youth of this team. If they can minimize the injuries and learn to focus for 60 minutes, I think this team can easily win 11 or 12 games next year.

2009 Packers opponents	HOME	  AWAYMinnesota 	MinnesotaChicago 	ChicagoDetroit 	DetroitSan Francisco 	ArizonaSeattle 	St. LouisBaltimore 	ClevelandCincinnati 	PittsburghDallas 	Tampa Bay

As for what it means to be a "true fan", I think that is a pointless discussion. You pay your money to see the show and that's what its all about - entertainment. I don't care to do the wave, paint my face, or boo the home team, but have no problem with those that do such things. Everyone has a right to criticize players, management and coaches, but it helps to be able to back it up. I can't imagine the logic of any fan who could suffer through Mike Sherman, 4-12 and Brett Favre's league-leading 29 int's in 2005, but be willing to abandon this team right now.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Why do you invest so much time analyzing our team? You don't have one of your own to root for?

I am sorry if I offended you. I had only figured that Packer fans would have already realized what I was saying: 6-10 is bad. If I in any way pulled you from a safe area in which you had protected yourself from this reality, then I apologize.

 

[Sabertooth]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

How close is this team to the team that went 4-12? Entirely different coaching staff. Different Offensive backfield, 3 different linemen, different wideouts, different tight end, you catch my drift?

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

How close is this team to the team that went 4-12? Entirely different coaching staff. Different Offensive backfield, 3 different linemen, different wideouts, different tight end, you catch my drift?

And so particularly odd that last year's 13-3 team lost only the QB before the start of the season and suddenly this season looks a lot more like that totally different team that went 4-12 than the team that played to the NFC Championship last year!

 

[Aaronstory]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

How close is this team to the team that went 4-12? Entirely different coaching staff. Different Offensive backfield, 3 different linemen, different wideouts, different tight end, you catch my drift?

And so particularly odd that last year's 13-3 team lost only the QB before the start of the season and suddenly this season looks a lot more like that totally different team that went 4-12 than the team that played to the NFC Championship last year!

The bolded proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I'd say this year was the aberration. Too many key players lost on defense. It didn't matter what the offense did, the defense couldn't hold down the fort. Next season, if they can get Rouse and Bigby to play better and stay healthy, Cullen Jenkins back, and Nick Barnett back, they'll rebound just fine.

Considering that this season was preceded by a 13-3, 8-8 and 4-12 season, I am not sure I am seeing why 6-10 is the aberration. One of these seasons is not like the other, if you catch my drift...and if you don't it's last season, because it's the last winning season the Green Bay Packers have had in four seasons. I understand that cheeseheads wear their hats low though, so it can be difficult to see the truth with gouda in your eyes.

How close is this team to the team that went 4-12? Entirely different coaching staff. Different Offensive backfield, 3 different linemen, different wideouts, different tight end, you catch my drift?

And so particularly odd that last year's 13-3 team lost only the QB before the start of the season and suddenly this season looks a lot more like that totally different team that went 4-12 than the team that played to the NFC Championship last year!

The bolded proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

"Injuries!" If only any other team had to deal with them, too. How unfair!

 

[Irish]

Favre is a glorified has-been who only made the Pro Bowl on career accomplishments and not based on his play this year. Same way Faneca got voted to the Pro Bowl. This year Rodgers>>>>>>>>>>>>>Favre. Last years GB defense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This years GB defense. The defense is to blame for the Packers poor record not Rodgers.

awesome empirical evidence here.

Favre's last 10 games he has thrown for 9 Tds and 13 Ints. He has not thrown for over 300 yds in a game this season. In 6 games he has failed to even throw for 200 yards. These are not Pro Bowl numbers especially when Rivers and Pennington play in the same conference. Favre is spent and has set the Jets back a few years.

UpdateFavre's last 11 games he has thrown for 9 Tds and 15 Ints. He has not thrown for over 300 yds in a game this season. In 7 games he has failed to even throw for 200 yards.Pro Bowl QB

Update Favre's last 12 games he has thrown for 10 Tds and 18 Ints. He has not thrown for over 300 yds in a game this season. In 7 games he has failed to even throw for 200 yards.Rodgers season stats - 4038 pass yds 63.6% 28Td 13 Int 93.8 qb rating 207 rush yds 4 Tds rushing.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Your statements that are leading to the conclusion that Favre is/was currently (2008) better then Rodgers are absolutely wrong. Proven beyond a shadow of the doubt. Regardless of the Packers or Jets.

I have not been arguing that Favre would have been better for the Pack this year, I abandoned that argument weeks ago when Favre started peeing the bed and Rodgers proved he was a consistent performer. (Save for the fact that Favre had been good for some 3 out of 10 come from behind victories, where Rodgers is 0 fer 100% this season, but Favre this season wasn't playing up to snuff.)As I posted this:

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

I thought I had made that clear. Now the facts are that the Packers clearly had more work to do this offseason than try to spin the whole Favre/retirement fiasco and they lost their bearings.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never change how bad the Packers have been the last four seasons.

How many Packer games have you watched this year? Two?

You have no clue as usual

I watched them narrowly defeat the Vikings, and lose to the Vikings, Jags, Texans, and Bears. Is that not enough of a sample of their six wins and 10 losses?Edit: I forgot, I watched them lose to the Bucs this year too. Too many losses to remember!

Watching the stats roll by on a computer doesn't count. I remember you coming in all those threads admitting you weren't watching on TV, but watching the stats.Give it a rest, you probably watched 3 games, both Viking games and the Bear Monday nighter.

Damn't I got sucked back into this ridiculous thread.

I'm done

 

[ScottyFargo]

Rodgers > Favre. But the most important thing to note is that the Packers are a bad, bad team and last year's record was an aberration. The Packers will be bad for years to come.

No they won't. They seriously underachieved this year, while over achieving last year. I think they're somewhere in the middle, maybe 10-6. Add a few pieces to the D line, and O line and I think we're ok. Next year will be a better year I'm sure of it. TT's future with the Packers depends on it.

Just ignore this wishful fisherman, this thread has gone on way too long already. He's only here to antagonize and fish.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never change how bad the Packers have been the last four seasons.

How many Packer games have you watched this year? Two?

You have no clue as usual

I watched them narrowly defeat the Vikings, and lose to the Vikings, Jags, Texans, and Bears. Is that not enough of a sample of their six wins and 10 losses?Edit: I forgot, I watched them lose to the Bucs this year too. Too many losses to remember!

Watching the stats roll by on a computer doesn't count. I remember you coming in all those threads admitting you weren't watching on TV, but watching the stats.Give it a rest, you probably watched 3 games, both Viking games and the Bear Monday nighter.

Damn't I got sucked back into this ridiculous thread.

I'm done

It's good that you're quitting while you're so far down. The best thing for you is to take your own advice and give it a rest because you don't know what you're talking about. At any rate, anyone who watched all of the Packers games this year saw quite a few more losses than wins, so I don't know what one would be looking for that stats couldn't tell you anyway. Rodgers is a good quarterback, but he wasn't what the front office should have hung their hopes of repeating last years success on.

 

[ScottyFargo]

he wasn't what the front office should have hung their hopes of repeating last years success on.

Repeating wasnt the agenda. Long term overall success of the team was.It was just like my Steelers letting Faneca go without any offer what-so-ever.

Well if getting a top ten draft pick was on their agenda, then you can not look at this season as anything but a resounding success.