HS girls stage a walkout as trans teen uses girls bathroom (1 Viewer)

[Instinctive]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

Not sure where you're going with this... I think high school girls are at a stage in life where they understand nudity, and a group of them not wanting to share a locker room with someone born a boy is perfectly normal. This has nothing to do with what adults say and more to do with instinct.

It has everything to do with what adults say.

Nobody is born being awkward or ashamed of nudity. it is a learned behavior. The solution here is not to **** around with bathrooms and locker rooms and wondering who we need to accommodate and how much...the solution is to change a rather dumb cultural norm. It's a much larger shift, of course, but if we as a society stopped freaking out about nudity and teaching our children that it is a bad thing that needs to be avoided at all costs, then we have no problem.

It's not an instinct in any way, shape, or form. To say that it is one is either completely disingenuous or kind of dumb.

 

[Instinctive]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.

Your second sentence is only true because we teach the bolded. It is a learned behavior.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

Not sure where you're going with this... I think high school girls are at a stage in life where they understand nudity, and a group of them not wanting to share a locker room with someone born a boy is perfectly normal. This has nothing to do with what adults say and more to do with instinct.

It has everything to do with what adults say.

Nobody is born being awkward or ashamed of nudity. it is a learned behavior. The solution here is not to **** around with bathrooms and locker rooms and wondering who we need to accommodate and how much...the solution is to change a rather dumb cultural norm. It's a much larger shift, of course, but if we as a society stopped freaking out about nudity and teaching our children that it is a bad thing that needs to be avoided at all costs, then we have no problem.

It's not an instinct in any way, shape, or form. To say that it is one is either completely disingenuous or kind of dumb.

I just took your stance, stood up at my desk just now, took off my clothes and sat back down. I'll report back.

 

[Zow]

Fun fact: less than 100 years ago, it was illegal for men to show their nipples in public.

Fun fact: It's still illegal from a man to have an erection in public, even if covered by clothing, in Allentown, PA.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Well unfortunately after 5 years of being a very solid employee, I was just fired.

 

[Apple Jack]

The Stanford is rubbing off on Instinctive. I dig it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Not sure my wife would agree about the "mature" part. Or my kids for that matter.

 

[McGarnicle]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

OMG gross

 

[fantasycurse42]

Well unfortunately after 5 years of being a very solid employee, I was just fired.

Holy #### dude, for what? What line of work are you in

I took my clothes off, ran around naked for a minutes, and sat back down. I informed my colleagues that being ashamed of nudity is dumb and they should embrace my third leg.

 

[Zow]

The Stanford is rubbing off on Instinctive. I dig it.

It's not like he's at Cal-Berkeley.

 

[Instinctive]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

Not sure where you're going with this... I think high school girls are at a stage in life where they understand nudity, and a group of them not wanting to share a locker room with someone born a boy is perfectly normal. This has nothing to do with what adults say and more to do with instinct.

It has everything to do with what adults say.

Nobody is born being awkward or ashamed of nudity. it is a learned behavior. The solution here is not to **** around with bathrooms and locker rooms and wondering who we need to accommodate and how much...the solution is to change a rather dumb cultural norm. It's a much larger shift, of course, but if we as a society stopped freaking out about nudity and teaching our children that it is a bad thing that needs to be avoided at all costs, then we have no problem.

It's not an instinct in any way, shape, or form. To say that it is one is either completely disingenuous or kind of dumb.

I just took your stance, stood up at my desk just now, took off my clothes and sat back down. I'll report back.

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

 

[ATC1]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.

Your second sentence is only true because we teach the bolded. It is a learned behavior.

Right...? Racisim is wrong as well, but we tip toe our conversation to not say anything that would be anywhere close to being portrayed as racist. We teach our children the same. Is it right? No, but it's better then being labeled as such.

 

[fantasycurse42]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

 

[jonessed]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

When you invent a time machine and change world history perhaps we can revisit the feasibility of your utopia. In the meantime, the rest of us have to live and make decisions in the current reality.

 

[matttyl]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

And to continue beating a dead horse, I guess that's what I have an issue with. I get what you are saying about unisex or whatever, but honestly are there more people who are unisex or whatever than there are people who's gender doesn't match their sex?

 

[matttyl]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms then

Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?

If using this definition of that term:

According to Leonard Sax intersex should be "restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female", around 0.018%.

That would be 56k people in the US. On the other hand (also according to wiki) .3% of the US population identifies as transgender. So that's 945k people, roughly 17x more.

Thus wouldn't it be easier to have bathroom/locker room usage determined by sex than by gender? Again, if you determine by gender for those people then you are sex discriminating against them, and if you determine by sex you're gender discriminating against them. At least this way you're only 1/17th as likely to be sued.

 

[matttyl]

3. Because testing someone's hormone levels, chromosomes, sexual organs, etc. every time they want to go to the bathroom is very time consuming.

1. So again, the school is going to have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. If you want to use the men's room you can, but we'll also allow you to use the women's. I mean, it's either this or a potential lawsuit, correct?

3. So is asking what gender you are to every person. No one's doing that currently, are they? So why would there all of a sudden be some bathroom cop checking IDs?

1. For a student who is biologically male and transgender female or biologically female and transgender male, the student would likely need to have the choice to use whichever restroom the student desires to use. Yes.

3. No, they aren't. But they are allowing people who outwardly express gender characteristics ("live as a woman") to use the women's restroom. You're the one trying to change that by instituting a bathroom use policy that relies on a biological definition of male/female that most people don't even know if they fit. Have you had your chromosomes tested? Do you know if you're an xx male? Do you know if you have vestigial ovaries from a development issue that technically make you intersex? If you have elevated estrogen levels? I don't.

1. I guess a "go wherever you feel like going today" policy just doesn't work for me. I'm trying to make "the law" work for these situations which leads me to....

3. If we currently have gender defined bathrooms rather than sex defined bathrooms, how are we not gender discriminating against who's "agender, genderless, bigender, pangender, third gender, trigender, and so on" (all from wiki page on "gender identity"). I mean if the school in Maine was getting sued because they tried to assign a bathroom to a student they deemed to be whatever, and thus had to pay $75k, then how are any public place not doing the exact same thing to all of those people? Do "genderless" people have a gender discrimination case against a public school or wherever for making them choose a gender specific bathroom that doesn't match their gender?

As to your last questions - no I haven't, but I have fertilized a human egg which is good enough for me to believe in my own mind that I'm a male by both gender and sex. The child is a boy, though, so I guess the whole XX thing isn't off the table.

 

[matttyl]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.

Your second sentence is only true because we teach the bolded. It is a learned behavior.

Does that make us more or less of a civilized society? Honest question, and likely tough to answer. I image native people of wherever (Incas, Mayans, bush people of wherever) in the past weren't at all freaked out by the nudity of the family members. I think this is a part of the culture we have made.

 

[Thorn]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

I really am amused by this line of thought.

If there were naked women around, I would not be able to control myself! I would have sex with them! Or if they refused I would be reduced to masturbating to the thought of them!

It's amazing that we are able to find doctors who are able to overcome these base instincts that are so naturally present in everyone when they see nakedness.

 

[avoiding injuries]

While we are at it, sex is natural too. Too bad we've been taught not to have sex in front of our children.

 

[avoiding injuries]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

I really am amused by this line of thought.

If there were naked women around, I would not be able to control myself! I would have sex with them! Or if they refused I would be reduced to masturbating to the thought of them!

It's amazing that we are able to find doctors who are able to overcome these base instincts that are so naturally present in everyone when they see nakedness.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/us/johns-hopkins-settlement-190-million.html?referrer=&_r=0

 

[Instinctive]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

I didn't verbally take a position. I believe I stated what the ideal world would look like. Didn't say it was achievable, didn't say it was what we had, didn't even comment on this situation itself. You could stand to read a little closer.

I totally agree that it's a difficult issue. As I said before, in a perfect world we could have a cultural shift over time and eliminate the awkwardness and uncomfortable feelings. That's the ideal outcome.

I did, however, vote yes in the poll. Because I think we should live in a world where it doesn't matter. Let me be very clear: if I were running the high school, I would say the teen in question needs to use the separate bathroom or get over it. We live in a society where things don't always go your way. I'd have killed for a separate locker room...then again, I was bullied and harassed mercilessly throughout my secondary education and still bear the scars - physical, mental, and emotional.

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

When you invent a time machine and change world history perhaps we can revisit the feasibility of your utopia. In the meantime, the rest of us have to live and make decisions in the current reality.

I didn't say it would happen. I said I wish we lived in a world where. I wasn't even trying to take a real stance on the issue. Fantasy curse here jumped all over me for it.

 

[Instinctive]

I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.

This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.

Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?

I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.

Your second sentence is only true because we teach the bolded. It is a learned behavior.

Does that make us more or less of a civilized society? Honest question, and likely tough to answer. I image native people of wherever (Incas, Mayans, bush people of wherever) in the past weren't at all freaked out by the nudity of the family members. I think this is a part of the culture we have made.

I don't think it makes us more or less civilized, per se. Then again, the word "civilized" is kind of defined by the civilization, isn't it? It's just different.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I didn't verbally take a position. I believe I stated what the ideal world would look like.

I didn't say it would happen. I said I wish we lived in a world where.

Dude, that feels like a position to me

 

[Instinctive]

I didn't verbally take a position. I believe I stated what the ideal world would look like.

I didn't say it would happen. I said I wish we lived in a world where.

Dude, that feels like a position to me

Well that's your problem then. Nothing I can do to fix that for you. Sorry.

 

[Henry Ford]

3. Because testing someone's hormone levels, chromosomes, sexual organs, etc. every time they want to go to the bathroom is very time consuming.

1. So again, the school is going to have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. If you want to use the men's room you can, but we'll also allow you to use the women's. I mean, it's either this or a potential lawsuit, correct?

3. So is asking what gender you are to every person. No one's doing that currently, are they? So why would there all of a sudden be some bathroom cop checking IDs?

1. For a student who is biologically male and transgender female or biologically female and transgender male, the student would likely need to have the choice to use whichever restroom the student desires to use. Yes.

3. No, they aren't. But they are allowing people who outwardly express gender characteristics ("live as a woman") to use the women's restroom. You're the one trying to change that by instituting a bathroom use policy that relies on a biological definition of male/female that most people don't even know if they fit. Have you had your chromosomes tested? Do you know if you're an xx male? Do you know if you have vestigial ovaries from a development issue that technically make you intersex? If you have elevated estrogen levels? I don't.

1. I guess a "go wherever you feel like going today" policy just doesn't work for me. I'm trying to make "the law" work for these situations which leads me to....

3. If we currently have gender defined bathrooms rather than sex defined bathrooms, how are we not gender discriminating against who's "agender, genderless, bigender, pangender, third gender, trigender, and so on" (all from wiki page on "gender identity"). I mean if the school in Maine was getting sued because they tried to assign a bathroom to a student they deemed to be whatever, and thus had to pay $75k, then how are any public place not doing the exact same thing to all of those people? Do "genderless" people have a gender discrimination case against a public school or wherever for making them choose a gender specific bathroom that doesn't match their gender?

As to your last questions - no I haven't, but I have fertilized a human egg which is good enough for me to believe in my own mind that I'm a male by both gender and sex. The child is a boy, though, so I guess the whole XX thing isn't off the table.

1. Sorry to hear that.

2. That's why there's a push for a gender neutral/third gender bathroom in public places. And, again, the school "deeming" someone to be "whatever" is the problem. They don't get to make that decision. It's reasonable to separate the bathrooms based on gender. But they didn't - they separated it by gender and then told one student she isn't the gender she is and that she couldn't use it. That's why the lawsuit.

As to your last answer, that's kind of the point. Her circumstance is good enough for this student to believe in her own mind that she's actually a girl, just as this is good enough for you to believe that you're actually a man. You're trying to create an exterior standard for others, when you live by your own determination for yourself. We can't require a fertilized human egg to use the bathroom.

 

[matttyl]

1. I guess a "go wherever you feel like going today" policy just doesn't work for me. I'm trying to make "the law" work for these situations which leads me to....

3. If we currently have gender defined bathrooms rather than sex defined bathrooms, how are we not gender discriminating against who's "agender, genderless, bigender, pangender, third gender, trigender, and so on" (all from wiki page on "gender identity"). I mean if the school in Maine was getting sued because they tried to assign a bathroom to a student they deemed to be whatever, and thus had to pay $75k, then how are any public place not doing the exact same thing to all of those people? Do "genderless" people have a gender discrimination case against a public school or wherever for making them choose a gender specific bathroom that doesn't match their gender?

As to your last questions - no I haven't, but I have fertilized a human egg which is good enough for me to believe in my own mind that I'm a male by both gender and sex. The child is a boy, though, so I guess the whole XX thing isn't off the table.

1. Sorry to hear that.

2. That's why there's a push for a gender neutral/third gender bathroom in public places. And, again, the school "deeming" someone to be "whatever" is the problem. They don't get to make that decision. It's reasonable to separate the bathrooms based on gender. But they didn't - they separated it by gender and then told one student she isn't the gender she is and that she couldn't use it. That's why the lawsuit.

As to your last answer, that's kind of the point. Her circumstance is good enough for this student to believe in her own mind that she's actually a girl, just as this is good enough for you to believe that you're actually a man. You're trying to create an exterior standard for others, when you live by your own determination for yourself. We can't require a fertilized human egg to use the bathroom.

1 - you're saying that the school should say that boys go to this one, girls go to that one, and this one student go wherever you want? How does that fly, both legally and logically?

2 - but there is more than just this "third gender". I listed quite a few of them. Are they all to be lumped into one group for the sake of only having to construct a single, third, restroom? How is that not gender discrimination against the bigender or the trigender person when they have to share the same "gender based" facility?

 

[Parrothead]

save money on bathrooms and hand out depends.. let everyone #### their pants- equally

 

[FUBAR]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms then

Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?

I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.

And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.

No more urinals I guess.

Unless I'm missing something, the sole purpose of a urinal is to save water.

You are missing something. They are faster. You don't have to touch them to lift up a seat. They are cheaper to maintain. They don't need a floor drain.

Who lifts a seat in the public restroom? The seat is split for a reason.

Otherwise, thanks.

 

[fantasycurse42]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

I really am amused by this line of thought.

If there were naked women around, I would not be able to control myself! I would have sex with them! Or if they refused I would be reduced to masturbating to the thought of them!

It's amazing that we are able to find doctors who are able to overcome these base instincts that are so naturally present in everyone when they see nakedness.

Sorry for having a libido.

We have a gigantic thread about girls in yoga pants, they're fully clothed, naked girls everywhere IRL wouldn't be highly distracting at all (for homosexuals).

 

[FUBAR]

This is idiotic as well. My stance is that it is a social norm that is taught. That doesn't make it any less real. But it certainly isn't a natural instinct.

We're not cavemen, nudity is normal... If the girls in my office were naked all day, pretty sure I'd either be cheating on my wife left and right or vigorously masterbating all day. Either way, clothes are good. (edit, clothes are a necessity)

You're in the position that you would rather upset an entire group of people, to comfort the one outlier. I have no issue with this young man/woman doing whatever they want with themselves, but at the discomfort of the masses, it isn't right. They're uncomfortable bc this student has a ####, plain and simple. I'm sure some of the heavier ones or self-conscious ones are already uncomfortable around other girls in the locker room in itself, no need to further complicate anything.

I really am amused by this line of thought.

If there were naked women around, I would not be able to control myself! I would have sex with them! Or if they refused I would be reduced to masturbating to the thought of them!

It's amazing that we are able to find doctors who are able to overcome these base instincts that are so naturally present in everyone when they see nakedness.

Sorry for having a libido.

We have a gigantic thread about girls in yoga pants, they're fully clothed, naked girls everywhere IRL wouldn't be highly distracting at all (for homosexuals).

After a while we'd become desensitized to it. Frankly, for most, it would not be sexy at all.

 

[fantasycurse42]

The only benefit of a naked society (outside of the obvious) is we prob wouldn't be such an obese society.

 

[Parrothead]

winters would suck

 

[FUBAR]

winters would suck

There was shrinkage!

 

[jonessed]

winters would suck

Summers would too. I hate putting sunscreen on as it is.

 

[matttyl]

The only benefit of a naked society (outside of the obvious) is we prob wouldn't be such an obese society.

Win, win?

 

[parasaurolophus]

The only benefit of a naked society (outside of the obvious) is we prob wouldn't be such an obese society.

I think it would go the opposite way. The only way we would have a naked society would be if nudity was no longer anything special or even worth observing.

That same society wouldn't place much value on looks.

You ever think the tribeswomen on national geographic look hot? Haha. Nope.

 

[dparker713]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

Just because you repeat something doesn't make it any more true. We segregate facilities based upon genitalia. Now, sure people with a ###### could use a stall in a men's bathroom, but the trough isn't going to be quite so useful.

Oh, if the hardest math needed is statistics, then no it isn't a science.

 

[dickey moe]

The only benefit of a naked society (outside of the obvious) is we prob wouldn't be such an obese society.

Full unobstructed views of Aunt Bertha's mudflaps ain't gonna result in her downing four less cheeseburgers a day, guy.

 

[dickey moe]

More societal graying of formerly objective truths.

 

[Juxtatarot]

The only benefit of a naked society (outside of the obvious) is we prob wouldn't be such an obese society.

I think it would go the opposite way. The only way we would have a naked society would be if nudity was no longer anything special or even worth observing.

That same society wouldn't place much value on looks.

You ever think the tribeswomen on national geographic look hot? Haha. Nope.

Clearly he missed September 1986.

 

[Fennis]

Well unfortunately after 5 years of being a very solid employee, I was just fired.

about time

 

[Henry Ford]

1. I guess a "go wherever you feel like going today" policy just doesn't work for me. I'm trying to make "the law" work for these situations which leads me to....

3. If we currently have gender defined bathrooms rather than sex defined bathrooms, how are we not gender discriminating against who's "agender, genderless, bigender, pangender, third gender, trigender, and so on" (all from wiki page on "gender identity"). I mean if the school in Maine was getting sued because they tried to assign a bathroom to a student they deemed to be whatever, and thus had to pay $75k, then how are any public place not doing the exact same thing to all of those people? Do "genderless" people have a gender discrimination case against a public school or wherever for making them choose a gender specific bathroom that doesn't match their gender?

As to your last questions - no I haven't, but I have fertilized a human egg which is good enough for me to believe in my own mind that I'm a male by both gender and sex. The child is a boy, though, so I guess the whole XX thing isn't off the table.

1. Sorry to hear that.2. That's why there's a push for a gender neutral/third gender bathroom in public places. And, again, the school "deeming" someone to be "whatever" is the problem. They don't get to make that decision. It's reasonable to separate the bathrooms based on gender. But they didn't - they separated it by gender and then told one student she isn't the gender she is and that she couldn't use it. That's why the lawsuit.

As to your last answer, that's kind of the point. Her circumstance is good enough for this student to believe in her own mind that she's actually a girl, just as this is good enough for you to believe that you're actually a man. You're trying to create an exterior standard for others, when you live by your own determination for yourself. We can't require a fertilized human egg to use the bathroom.

1 - you're saying that the school should say that boys go to this one, girls go to that one, and this one student go wherever you want? How does that fly, both legally and logically?2 - but there is more than just this "third gender". I listed quite a few of them. Are they all to be lumped into one group for the sake of only having to construct a single, third, restroom? How is that not gender discrimination against the bigender or the trigender person when they have to share the same "gender based" facility?

No, I'm saying anyone with a legitimate identification as the group that the room is made for gets to use the room. And no, it's not gender discrimination to day that everyone gets to use the other room.

 

[Henry Ford]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

Just because you repeat something doesn't make it any more true. We segregate facilities based upon genitalia. Now, sure people with a ###### could use a stall in a men's bathroom, but the trough isn't going to be quite so useful.

Oh, if the hardest math needed is statistics, then no it isn't a science.

Gotcha. Medicine isn't science. Thanks.

 

[FUBAR]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms then

Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?

I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.

And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.

No more urinals I guess.

Unless I'm missing something, the sole purpose of a urinal is to save water.

You are missing something. They are faster. You don't have to touch them to lift up a seat. They are cheaper to maintain. They don't need a floor drain.

Who lifts a seat in the public restroom? The seat is split for a reason.Otherwise, thanks.

Wait, what?

Sorry, I know this is adding nothing to the conversation.

I'm being somewhat sarcastic but I'm hesitant to touch the seat. Most public bathrooms (ime anyway) have cut out the front center portion. It wasn't originally so we didn't have to lift, but it's a handy benefit.

 

[sharptongued1]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one without a handful of trans friends....

I honestly don't know a single transgender person. Then again, maybe I actually do know a few, but I just don't know it. A few of my women colleagues look a little off. In the interest of raising awareness and becoming more sensitive to trans issues, I think I'll ask a few of them if they're biologically male. I'll let you know what I learn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzrE8lGJds

 

[Mr. Soup Nazi]

More societal graying of formerly objective truths.

Precisely.

The rare exceptions are being used to drive policy for everybody, even exceptions without any true scientific backing. People's feelings are now being made to supersede physical reality. And all of this is basically a knee-jerk reaction to bullying. True discrimination isn't telling someone which bathroom or locker room to use. That's societal structure and we all must adhere to it. There are just as many kids that were fat or underdeveloped that had a traumatizing locker room experienced as homosexuals and transgenders, but they still have to adhere to changing in the locker room for PE.

Its like the war on drugs, IMO...if we fail to treat the root cause of the problem (bullying), we can't legislate it away. The cruelty of people to others is what causes discrimination, not which room you get to change or pee in.

 

[Mr. Soup Nazi]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

Just because you repeat something doesn't make it any more true. We segregate facilities based upon genitalia. Now, sure people with a ###### could use a stall in a men's bathroom, but the trough isn't going to be quite so useful.

Oh, if the hardest math needed is statistics, then no it isn't a science.

Gotcha. Medicine isn't science. Thanks.

Psychology isn't medicine and is probably the least understood and most controversial of sciences.

Very little is settled there, so proceed with caution with your absolute truths. You could very well be wrong.

 

[dparker713]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

Just because you repeat something doesn't make it any more true. We segregate facilities based upon genitalia. Now, sure people with a ###### could use a stall in a men's bathroom, but the trough isn't going to be quite so useful.

Oh, if the hardest math needed is statistics, then no it isn't a science.

Gotcha. Medicine isn't science. Thanks.

Sometimes scientists give medical doctors neat toys to play with.

 

[chauncey]

The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.

The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.

To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.

What is the difference between gender and sex?