Courtjester
The Town Drunk
He is finished.....just drop him at this point.....
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Huddle up, Peyton Owners. What's our plan? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tombonneau
- Start date
tombonneau
Footballguy
Hey I've got a great idea. Let's replace the offensive system a HOF QB has broken records with his entire career with the offensive system of a retread coach who has never made the playoffs.
Anyway good to see Peyton look startable in shotgun. Certainly helps his trade value. I'm absolutely still looking to move him especially now that I won't have be full on fire sale with solid prime time showing.
This is best thing that could happen for us. Manning has good enough game to help us and not look done, but not too good a game that he sucked us back in.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
While it sounds like a terrible idea on the surface, and is obviously terrible for fantasy purposes, we should probably hold off on judging the real life sensibility of the switch.
The Broncos are 2-0 with wins against a couple of good football teams, one on the road on a short week in one of the most difficult environments in the league.
Insein
Footballguy
If you watched those games you'd see it was pretty much the defense that eon the first one and last night they helped a lot too. Peyton looked uncomfortable again in the offense until he went back to shotgun hurry up and did what he's done for so long.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Exactly. They won in spite of Kubiak's offense, not because of it. The offense was listless until Manning went into spread. And short fields helped.
Still that defense could be good enough to keep them in contention. But unless the offense picks it up, Steelers, Pats or Colts will beat this team home or away.
Warpig
Footballguy
His arm is just toast. He had to put everything he had into an 8 yard throw in the 1st quarter. Then his deep passes are just floaters that are prime for the picking.
His saving grace is the shotgun in the no huddle. That way he can take advantage of a gassed defense with shorter passes and getting the ball out quicker. Then chuck one over the top every once in a while when the defense is on it's heels.
Time to start coaching Peyton.
His saving grace is the shotgun in the no huddle. That way he can take advantage of a gassed defense with shorter passes and getting the ball out quicker. Then chuck one over the top every once in a while when the defense is on it's heels.
Time to start coaching Peyton.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I notice no difference in his arm the past 3 seasons, its about the same.
I hope Kubiak realizes that the oline is garbage and they need to protect him so they go shotgun all the time
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well, I'm not trying to say this with the benefit of hindsight, but Kubiak is partially to blame (Manning's arm is a big culprit as well). Constantly rolling out a 39 year old QB (that couldn't run even in his prime) and having him throw on the run when he has no arm strength left is idiotic.
Just see how much better Manning looked when they finally went to shot gun and he could set his feet and find the open WRs. His arm was still shot but he was able to be far more productive. Kubiak is a moron. The best coaches abandon their systems when they don't have the players to run them.
flapgreen
Footballguy
yep
flapgreen
Footballguy
Good luck with that happening.
dnurk
Footballguy
I think the arm strength argument is a false narrative. Lifelong Colts fan who has watched most every game this guy has played and while diminished, I see no actual "strength" difference from the past few years.
He has always struggled being ACCURATE when under pressure. Look back to Colts playoff games when he struggled. Most of the time he was constantly getting knocked down and hurried.
Last night he threw a couple of deep balls in the first half that got there just fine...they just were not on target. Some were pretty seriously overthrown. Same thing happened in the first game vs Baltimore.
If DEN is able to figure out a way to give him just a bit more time and he's not worried about getting destroyed on the blind side (which did happen in the first half last night) he can still make the throws.
He has always struggled being ACCURATE when under pressure. Look back to Colts playoff games when he struggled. Most of the time he was constantly getting knocked down and hurried.
Last night he threw a couple of deep balls in the first half that got there just fine...they just were not on target. Some were pretty seriously overthrown. Same thing happened in the first game vs Baltimore.
If DEN is able to figure out a way to give him just a bit more time and he's not worried about getting destroyed on the blind side (which did happen in the first half last night) he can still make the throws.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
not saying it will happen, but he is a complete moron for not playing to peytons strengths rather than just running his offense
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Hey, I've got a great idea. Let's completely disregard the fact that Peyton's offensive system has proven unsuccessful in the playoffs the last two years which forced the need for change.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
I know they won the AFC Championship game, but I don't think they ever showed up for the Super Bowl.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I don't think it's a false narrative at all. Watch the deep in route he threw to Demaryius on that last drive, then watch a deep in route from the past. Watch those skinny posts he threw to Caldwell/Sanders (even the TD) in the last drive compared to the skinny posts he's thrown in the past.
The ball is in the air a lot longer.
ETA: This video at 0:37 vs. This video at 2:47 or 2:13
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Wonderllama
Footballguy
Sell high? If Tom Brady struggles against Buffalo, I would instantly make a trade offer for him straight up
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LawFitz
Footballguy
Hmm, maybe we're overstating the shotgun vs. under-center thing...
Value Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD 1D Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD 1D Snap Type & Huddle Huddle 39 63 24 61.90 353 3 20 2 79.7 5.6 5.13 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 No Huddle 11 22 11 50.00 78 0 6 0 58.5 3.5 3.55 0 0 0 0 Shotgun 39 67 28 58.21 373 2 22 2 71.3 5.6 4.82 0 0 0 0 Under Center 11 18 7 61.11 58 1 4 0 85.0 3.2 4.33 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/splits/2015/
ETA - table is completely garbled, so click the link to see the splits. They aren't nearly as compelling as I thought they'd be.
Value Cmp Att Inc Cmp% Yds TD 1D Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD 1D Snap Type & Huddle Huddle 39 63 24 61.90 353 3 20 2 79.7 5.6 5.13 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 No Huddle 11 22 11 50.00 78 0 6 0 58.5 3.5 3.55 0 0 0 0 Shotgun 39 67 28 58.21 373 2 22 2 71.3 5.6 4.82 0 0 0 0 Under Center 11 18 7 61.11 58 1 4 0 85.0 3.2 4.33 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/splits/2015/
ETA - table is completely garbled, so click the link to see the splits. They aren't nearly as compelling as I thought they'd be.
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Gottabesweet
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
You realize many a team has won with a grind it out type of offense aiding the defense most of the game and a QB that can get put together drives late in the game to win it, right?
It might also make sense that Peyton might not be built to spread it out for 4 quarters anymore. By all accounts, that Peyton ceased to exist somewhere in the 2nd half of last year. So it could be a hybrid of Kubiak's offense combined with hoping for some vintage Peyton late might be the best route for this team.
I have no idea if it'll work, and maybe Coach Peyton completely takes over soon (followed by everyone clamoring that he doesn't have the arm/ability for it anymore), but with a team learning a new system and an offense that didn't play together much in the pre-season, they've figured out how start the season with a pair of really good wins.
Just saying it might be a bit premature to call Kubiak an idiot.
tombonneau
Footballguy
I wasn't able to see the game last night. Will watch condensed later, but how did he look? Write up says they look to be doing a lot more shotgun which is great schematically. But how was he physically? Passes look ok?
I'm still very keen to move him after these strong two weeks. Would be interested to hear any Peyton Manning trades y'all have seen or done recently to gauge what consensus value is for him.
I'm still very keen to move him after these strong two weeks. Would be interested to hear any Peyton Manning trades y'all have seen or done recently to gauge what consensus value is for him.
cr8f
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
it won two superbowls in the late 90's.. It transformed guys like Terell Davis, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, Olandis Gary, Arian Foster, and Justin Forsett from scrubs into fantasy dynamos. It turned Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub into pro-bowl QB's.
just sayin'.
ponchsox
Footballguy
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