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I am an anti vaxxer (1 Viewer)

parasaurolophus

Footballguy
I don't support a vaccine mandate for covid. 

Webster updated their dictionary definition to include people that oppose such a thing. 

So even though I have two shots of Pfizer(appt on the 14th for third), get the flu shot every year, even got my son the HPV vaccine, and got my dtap booster again two years ago, I am an anti vaxxer now. 

Now I have to unfriend myself on Facebook. 

 
As I’m still feeling the effects of my booster shot 5 days later (swollen lymph nodes, and not loving it) and not down with the mandate I guess I am too.  

 
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Peter Sokolowski, editor at large of Merriam-Webster.com, said that the entry for “anti-vaxxer” was first added to the online dictionary in February 2018 and hasn’t been revised or changed since. It has always defined it as “a person who opposes vaccination or laws that mandate vaccination.”

 
Do you oppose all regulations mandating vaccines?  Because I read the definition as being categorically (rather than selectively) opposed to regulations mandating vaccines. 

 
I don't support a vaccine mandate for covid.


I would prefer that people, no matter their political ideology, remain consistent.

What I mean is "My Body My Choice" has to mean something for everyone or it means absolutely nothing for anyone.

I don't agree with what Texas is doing with abortion laws. I particularly don't agree with the elements of the GOP that are against vaccine mandates but want to loophole Roe Vs Wade so that many women don't functionally have a choice anymore. Then again, I don't agree with elements of the woke radical left who scream out about social justice and equity but could give two ####s about Asian Americans being hunted down and targeted in the streets and the genocide of the Uighurs.

I believe all looters and rioters from 2020 ( and yes all the ones from 2021 too) should have their citizenship stripped, have all their assets taken and be permanently deported. But I also believe that the same should apply to everyone who breached the Capitol on J6. If someone is pro vaccine mandate but also Pro Choice, I don't want to hear anything they have to say.

Integrity only happens with consistency first. I believe all business owners and home owners, via Constitutional amendment, should be given full amnesty from any and all use of force once a protest has been officially designated a riot by local law enforcement. But that also means, to be consistent, if my godson decided to be a looter and tried to steal a pair of Nikes and got his head blown off with a shotgun, that I'd accept that also as a consequence of my stance.

Something I said back in 2006 here is always beware of those who are willing to treat people in a way and manner that they would not like to be treated themselves. I've seen people surgically split hairs on a number of topics to fulfill their tribalism, but if it was their families and their children on the line, they would want something different than their textbook partisanship.

Principles only matter and only mean something if you are willing to endure them even when it costs you. One of the people I've always respected the most in the FFA is johnnycakes. A few times he's talked about his battle with alcoholism. And he said there were certain kinds of people that he despised and didn't respect all his life, based on their character and choices and traits, and one day he woke up and realized he was one of those people. And that he couldn't escape it and that he couldn't make excuses anymore and that he needed to change for the sake of his children. I am not a very religious person by nature, but I am decently well versed in the Bible. The New Testament is predominantly about Paul. Not Peter, who was seen as the chosen one and favorite of Jesus Christ, but the reformed tyrant who used to persecute and hunt Christians. Paul was broken from the man he once was and didn't believe he should ever be forgiven. He became an enemy to all sides. Never trusted and always doubted and always abused. And Peter was the one to denounce Jesus when it counted the most. It was the outcast and the pariah who was the one who understood the meaning and cost of principles.

I'm not trying to steer this into a religious conversation, but I am saying political conviction and values mean little to nothing to me if I assess that it's coming from an inauthentic person. I won't take their free speech nor their free expression from them but authentic people are very consistent. They are self aware to understand that their is no joy and no benefit and no point to enabling cognitive dissonance.

Most people could not do what @johnnycakes did. Most people would have made excuses for themselves and their behavior. Most people would have lived with the lie and punished everyone in their lives as causalities of that self deception.

Freedom to choose fundamentally means that you also might be choosing what ends up being wrong for you and have possible dire consequences. Free will is not some utopian boondoggle. But this is the price of actual self agency. 

Your liberty, your freedom, your self agency, your free will was never meant nor designed to ensure the comfort of others around you. Some will see that concept as selfish. Except it stops being selfish when it becomes a two way street. When someone else's choices removes your comfort to ensure your right to do the same.

Nearly all of you were born into liberty. You were born into abundance. You were born into a wealth of actual choices. Nearly all of you have never experienced anything different. It's why so many of you don't actually understand what real freedom means. That's the bitter irony for those whom have never suffered for one's free will.

Freedom doesn't die when you start lining up people against a wall for failing a purity test. It dies when a man who is trying to find his own voice is taught to hesitate before he speaks.

 
By this definition, most people will be "anti-vaxx" soon if they're not already. That's not to mean most people will be against vaccines or even against Covid vaccines though. 

 
Given that the definition was applied before Covid existed my guess is the mandates they were talking about were for school children and the Jenny McCarthy brigade with their crap science concerning autism.

 
On dictionary.com, the definition of vaccine is that it confers immunity, whereas Webster says a vaccine stimulates an immune response, so the Covid shot may not even be a vaccine depending on which dictionary you use.

I guess societal breakdown has reached the point where we cannot even rely on a common language anymore.

 
If you played the word "vaxxer" in a game of scrabble you'd rack up 23 points! 

Too bad I'd disallow and bust you for slipping an extra X into the game.

 
Given that the definition was applied before Covid existed my guess is the mandates they were talking about were for school children and the Jenny McCarthy brigade with their crap science concerning autism.
It is interesting that the definition was slightly changed in early October to say regulations instead of laws. 

I am guessing that had to do with the OSHA rule. 

But I didn't realize Webster had it that way since 2018. I had heard they changed it and first looked at dictionary dot com and Cambridge and their definitions didn't breathe a word of that angle, so I figured it must have been a legit claim.

 
Pro-choice is not the same as Pro-abortion.

Pro-choice is not the same as Anti-vax.

Too many people on and off this board have the concepts confused.

 
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Interestingly the only reason Jesus was given a virgin birth was to sell it to the Roman's as that fit with their own mythology. May as well say "Hi" - Alcmene.
"Which is more likely?  That the whole natural order is to be suspended, or that a Jewish minx should tell a lie?"

- Hume

 
SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?

Are you for other vaccine mandates we already have?

TIA

 
The term "Anti-Vax" is used in the Covid discussion as a very carefully hand picked word purely for the purpose of division and degrading those who choose not to believe or take THIS Vax. 

Being an Anti-vaxxer was already a thing with often negative stereotypes—"You're crazy, vaccines have been around for years, they are proven safe" "You are a fringe outlier" etc. But 1 thing was clear...they were against ALL vaccines.

Coopting the term to include the people who did not trust the Covid vax automatically lumped them into that same group. Whereas I would argue that most people who are weary of the Covid vax, has their children vaccinated to the fulled for al lfo the other vaccines. So that does not make them "Anti-Vax" it make them "Anti-THIS-vax" but that is not allowed to be used. 

I think it was rushed—"You're an anti-vaxxer!"
I have not seen any studies on side effects—"You're an anti-vaxxer!"
I have already had Covid and they say my antibodies are working—"You're an anti-vaxxer!"
Kids seem to not get effected as bad, why do I need to get them the shots: "You're an anti-vaxxer!"

its the answer to any little question b/c it allows them to put us in these groups that were already known to be crazy, outliers, anti-establishment, etc. 

Marketing 101
 

its done lately very often: I voted for Trump; "Oh you're a Proud Boy!" or I can't stand Trump; "What are you one of those Antifa nuts?"

 
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SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?

Are you for other vaccine mandates we already have?

TIA


Prior to this complete lunacy, I was fairly neutral toward traditional vax mandates (my family is fully compliant in terms of traditional vaxxes). Those vaxxes have long track records and utilize fairly similar biological approaches to one another (dead or weakened virus cells).

But now having seen your side use those non-comparable traditional vaxxes and their mandates as precedent to justify coercion/extortion of peoples into these novel mRNA/DNA vax biotechnologies, which not only do NOT have long-enough track records, but literally hundreds of thousands of reports of SEVERE adverse reactions across the globe in just their first year of wide application, I am 100% anti vax-mandates PERIOD. The only thing that could ever change my mind about that again would be a true plague-like disease emerging, where the emergency of high mortality rates justified the extreme action of invading people's bodies against their will. Covid isn't that. Never was. And that logic doesn't even account for the now undeniable FACT that your ####ty Covid vaxxes don't even stop transmission!

#### your mandates and any totalitarian mindsets towards forcing them upon us. Vax mob is sick with being mind-####ed by partisan media and if you continue to be a part of it despite where these policies have led us, extreme shame be upon you.

 
LawFitz said:
Prior to this complete lunacy, I was fairly neutral toward traditional vax mandates (my family is fully compliant in terms of traditional vaxxes). Those vaxxes have long track records and utilize fairly similar biological approaches to one another (dead or weakened virus cells).

But now having seen your side use those non-comparable traditional vaxxes and their mandates as precedent to justify coercion/extortion of peoples into these novel mRNA/DNA vax biotechnologies, which not only do NOT have long-enough track records, but literally hundreds of thousands of reports of SEVERE adverse reactions across the globe in just their first year of wide application, I am 100% anti vax-mandates PERIOD. The only thing that could ever change my mind about that again would be a true plague-like disease emerging, where the emergency of high mortality rates justified the extreme action of invading people's bodies against their will. Covid isn't that. Never was. And that logic doesn't even account for the now undeniable FACT that your ####ty Covid vaxxes don't even stop transmission!

#### your mandates and any totalitarian mindsets towards forcing them upon us. Vax mob is sick with being mind-####ed by partisan media and if you continue to be a part of it despite where these policies have led us, extreme shame be upon you.
and here you had folks thinking you were ‘considering all angles’…

 
and here you had folks thinking you were ‘considering all angles’…


Well lookie here, another super lame strawman/gotcha attempt.  :lmao:

I've fully considered the mandate angle. I am 100% against. The 'all angles' I am still considering have to do with the risk/benefit (safety and efficacy) of mRNA/DNA vaccination - for my family and any others in our society who are facing similar coercion/extortion. Despite your Vax-Mob attempts to paint me otherwise, I am pro-choice and pro-information, rather then 'anti-vax.' I've said it many times.

But as per usual, when you can't properly debate my message, you try to attack my character. Laughably though, you and (most of) your mob are horrible at both. Good day, Witz. 

 
Well lookie here, another super lame strawman/gotcha attempt.  :lmao:

I've fully considered the mandate angle. I am 100% against. The 'all angles' I am still considering have to do with the risk/benefit (safety and efficacy) of mRNA/DNA vaccination - for my family and any others in our society who are facing similar coercion/extortion. Despite your Vax-Mob attempts to paint me otherwise, I am pro-choice and pro-information, rather then 'anti-vax.' I've said it many times.

But as per usual, when you can't properly debate my message, you try to attack my character. Laughably though, you and (most of) your mob are horrible at both. Good day, 
Well that response says quite a bit about you actually. Thanks for putting your true self out there for all to see. 

Good day to you, LawFitz. 

 
belljr said:
SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?

Are you for other vaccine mandates we already have?

TIA
The situation being what it is, I think the mandates are unnecessary. Different virus with a different vaccine and maybe I'm on board.

I'm ok with private companies enforcing masks or vaccines for their customer base. 

I'm not ok with the Biden forcing the mandates through OSHA, the military, and some federal workers. 

 
The situation being what it is, I think the mandates are unnecessary. Different virus with a different vaccine and maybe I'm on board.

I'm ok with private companies enforcing masks or vaccines for their customer base. 

I'm not ok with the Biden forcing the mandates through OSHA, the military, and some federal workers. 
How is the government forcing mandates on federal workers really any different than private companies forcing their workers?

 
Well that response says quite a bit about you actually. Thanks for putting your true self out there for all to see. 

Good day to you, LawFitz. 


I've been plenty transparent about my intentions and beliefs. Maybe you should try to do the same, instead of choosing to come at people with passive-aggressive strawman/gotcha tactics. Maybe try debating the issues instead of throwing out veiled personal attacks, which you just did twice in a row. Sadly, your tactic here is a regularly recurring MO for your vax-obsessed brethren around here. Stop attacking the messenger just because you don't like the message and can't make a proper argument for why.

 
belljr said:
Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?


For all the illegals breaching our Southern Border? Then Yes, for them I'm perfectly OK with a vaccine mandate specifically for them.

I own property and have business interests in Texas. I also still own my place in Brooklyn. So I am invested in both the current vaccine mandates in NY and also what is going on at the Southern Border.

If I want to take my godson out for a steak at Peter Luger, odds are we will have to be shaken down for proof of vaccination and ID. We are both American citizens. ( Point to note, I'd never take him to a public place as such with this pandemic raging away as it has but that doesn't change the point about actual freedom)

However if an illegal immigrant, who also happens to be a child molester and pedophile, wants to walk right into Texas so he can steal a van and start making snuff films by using American children as prey, he can just waltz right in and not get the jab and not have to show anyone anything.

I'm sure the endless number of lawyers here in the forums will want to start the pedantic lawyering here soon. Big difference between someone who is a citizen under a vaccine mandate and someone who is not a citizen. Argue this all day if you want, I don't care, a gaggle of 4th tier paper milled ambulance chasers aren't going to bother me much at all.

When a child molester and a pedophile, someone who isn't even a US citizen, has more freedom than an actual tax paying American, then our country has entered into some bizarre fantasyland that you only find in video games.

#RememberMegaton

 
I've been plenty transparent about my intentions and beliefs. Maybe you should try to do the same, instead of choosing to come at people with passive-aggressive strawman/gotcha tactics. Maybe try debating the issues instead of throwing out veiled personal attacks, which you just did twice in a row. Sadly, your tactic here is a regularly recurring MO for your vax-obsessed brethren around here. Stop attacking the messenger just because you don't like the message and can't make a proper argument for why.
As I said before - good day to you LawFitz. 

 
How is the government forcing mandates on federal workers really any different than private companies forcing their workers?
I don't really support private companies forcing mandates, but I acknowledge they are a private employer and can run their business how they see fit.

Federal workers have more protections under the first amendment and I think its infringement by the government to force employees to take an EUA vaccine. Especially when the mandate isnt applied universally across the entire federal government. 

 
belljr said:
SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?

Are you for other vaccine mandates we already have?

TIA
I said this a while back but there’s very, very few people who are totally anti-mandate in all situations.  If a new virus started killing 50% of the people who contracted it virtually no one would have an issue with mandates.  The biggest problems are: 1. Covid has threaded the needle between just deadly enough where we need to act and not deadly enough for it to be obvious to everyone we need mandates.  2. For many people (no clue the actual number) mandates and the vaccines themselves have become political.  I dare say Covid is more political than abortion at this point and quite frankly it’s idiotic and makes the people of our nation look like idiots.

 
belljr said:
SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?

Are you for other vaccine mandates we already have?

TIA
Have we really had many vaccine mandates for adults prior to covid?

 
belljr said:
SO serious question - the people currently against covid vaccine mandates....

Will you ever be for covid vaccine mandates?
No.

Question for those who support mandates. Do you have ANY limits? Are you fine with ongoing boosters being mandated? Are you fine with future government decisions about what gets injected into your body?

 
I said this a while back but there’s very, very few people who are totally anti-mandate in all situations.  If a new virus started killing 50% of the people who contracted it virtually no one would have an issue with mandates.  The biggest problems are: 1. Covid has threaded the needle between just deadly enough where we need to act and not deadly enough for it to be obvious to everyone we need mandates.  2. For many people (no clue the actual number) mandates and the vaccines themselves have become political.  I dare say Covid is more political than abortion at this point and quite frankly it’s idiotic and makes the people of our nation look like idiots.
I find the political separation of the vax strange at best as well. 
 

if you look at it objectively, trump supporters should have been lined up to take it.  It’s like your running back ripping off a 99 years run but then the TD gets punched in by your opponent.  The Trump admin got the vax created, (if you believe that any admin create something like this) and Biden just got it out to the public.  
 

trump supporters should be all over this showing how great daddy trump really was.  
 

but the whole pandemic was one big political pissing match here, since day 1. And that’s where my distrust for anyone in govt lies right now.  Trump, Pelosi, Cuomo, all of them used the pandemic for their own political gain and party scorecard and it was sickening.  When the people needed their leaders the most, all we got were bickering children.  

now we are here.  No one can give us accurate numbers bc it might hurt “their side”, fear mongering and the division rule the airwaves.  The little guy and family business have gotten ####ed over, all while they bathe In the returns from their insider stock deals.   Govt officials scold us for not doing one thing, then get caught on camera (then lie about it) doing the exact same thing. 2 shots, 3 shots, booster, 2 weeks turns into 18 months and no one is holding our leadership accountable for anything.

so forgive me for not really trusting any well meaning by anyone in govt right now.  Mandates for you, but congress and other govt entities don’t require it.  
 

For those who I know who are anti-this-vax, it’s not about R or D.  It’s about being so disgusted with these #######s demanding what we do and how we live our lives while doing nothing but slap fight each other in their high castles.  It’s being told that it’s “vax or GTFO”. Denying other methods of fighting it, failure to recognize antibodies, healthier lifestyles, vitamins….nope. Get the jab or F u 

 
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No.

Question for those who support mandates. Do you have ANY limits? Are you fine with ongoing boosters being mandated? Are you fine with future government decisions about what gets injected into your body?
Would this go for non-covid mandates in the future if we encounter something more deadly than this virus? 

 
Would this go for non-covid mandates in the future if we encounter something more deadly than this virus? 
Well, first, if there were a more deadly virus I have to believe more people would be willing to take a new vaccine. But it still goes back to an individuals own risk/reward assessment for their personal condition and likelihood of both contracting the virus, and dying from it. Everyone is different, so to answer your question: yes. Again I want to repeat there's a difference between being again a vaccine and being against a mandate.

Second, Covid arrived in a perfect storm that (I hope) won't be repeated. Trump was President and everything - including viruses and vaccines - was politicized. If a more deadly virus comes along I hope we don't go down the road of playing politics with the virus, precautions, treatments, and possible vaccinations. If a more deadly virus comes along there may be less hypocrisy from those saying wear a mask and then don't themselves.

Again, if I can reverse the question: for those who support mandates, would you also support them for less deadly viruses in the future?

 

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