I wanna be rich (4 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

 

[Sarnoff]

I wear an $80 watch I got off Woot.

Wait, weren't you the one who dropped $100+ on a Pebble? Maybe "forgetting" where your money goes is part of your problem.

ETA:

Holy crap. I've never done anything on this Kickstarter before, but I thought this iPhone-linked watch was pretty cool, and plunked down 115 bucks or so to back it and lock up a watch for myself. They had like a hundred grand in backers at that point. Not a big deal I figured.

Otis sporting the white Pebble this morning with the dressed up look

I don't care what Zed thinks, I think it's a pretty cool looking watch.

Casual, different, etc. If I wanted another dressy watch with a black leather band, I have plenty.

Looks like your watch slot might be taking up more than 80 investable dollars.

He was also all over some kind of laptop thing, right? The ASUS EEE or something like that. Touted it endlessly. Used it for a month, then had to plunk down major coin on the next big thing that came out from Apple or something that "did the same thing, only more"

 

[Henry Ford]

Which is totally fine, but does run counter to the ultimate goal, here.

 

[cstu]

Man... this is all I want also Otis.. not so much being rich.. but just having enough jack that I don't have to work another day.

I also play the lottery like a poor bum... about $10 a time but only about 5-6 times a year... hoping to hit it rich so I don't have to pull another tooth or do a crown the rest of my days.

I figure I need about 5 M and at 36 I don't even have 1M yet.... so I really don't know how anyone does it without adopting the Mr. Money Mustache method.. which unfortunately is just too extreme for me.

Didn't know about that site but found this interesting:

Financial Independence enthusiasts will have the closest-to-correct answer: take your annual spending, and multiply it by somewhere between 20 and 50. That’s your retirement number. If you use the number 25, you’re implicitly using a 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate, which is my own personal favorite number.

So where does this magic number come from? At the most basic level, you can think of it like this: imagine you have your ‘stash of retirement savings invested in stocks or other assets. They pay dividends and appreciate in price at a total rate of 7% per year, before inflation. Inflation eats 3% on average, leaving you with 4% to spend reliably, forever.

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

 

[Slapdash]

Man... this is all I want also Otis.. not so much being rich.. but just having enough jack that I don't have to work another day.

I also play the lottery like a poor bum... about $10 a time but only about 5-6 times a year... hoping to hit it rich so I don't have to pull another tooth or do a crown the rest of my days.

I figure I need about 5 M and at 36 I don't even have 1M yet.... so I really don't know how anyone does it without adopting the Mr. Money Mustache method.. which unfortunately is just too extreme for me.

Didn't know about that site but found this interesting:

Financial Independence enthusiasts will have the closest-to-correct answer: take your annual spending, and multiply it by somewhere between 20 and 50. That’s your retirement number. If you use the number 25, you’re implicitly using a 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate, which is my own personal favorite number.

So where does this magic number come from? At the most basic level, you can think of it like this: imagine you have your ‘stash of retirement savings invested in stocks or other assets. They pay dividends and appreciate in price at a total rate of 7% per year, before inflation. Inflation eats 3% on average, leaving you with 4% to spend reliably, forever.

This is my favorite: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

It is an interesting site. The author can be a little grating though. Good forums.

 

[Gianni Verscotchie]

Maybe you could save some money by skipping lunch?

 

[Henry Ford]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

Why not? If he wants to retire sooner and this will help?

 

[El Floppo]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

 

[Henry Ford]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

Trick lasso performances.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

#### sock

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Cawk

 

[El Floppo]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

Trick lasso performances.

I could be charging for that?

 

[Henry Ford]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

Trick lasso performances.

I could be charging for that?

Can you whip a cigarette out of someone's mouth?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I was just telling my partner the other day that what I need is that one rich client. I'm tired of getting the call that goes like this:

"hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him/her your number. But take it easy on them because they don't have a lot of money."

Instead, I would prefer this phone call:

"Hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen, I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him your number. But be prepared, his name is (Derek Jeter, Bill Gates, Simon Cowell. your rich guy here) and he wants a local attorney to handle things for him. Obviously, he has a ton of money and just wants a local guy to take care of everything so he doesn't have to think about it."

See - that second call - I could be Tom Hagen. That's the perfect lawyer job. Tom Hagen. One client. Paid well. Got to go to big Italian weddings all the time. That's who I want to be when I grow up.

 

[El Floppo]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

Trick lasso performances.

I could be charging for that?

Can you whip a cigarette out of someone's mouth?

If they stand far enough away.

 

[Henry Ford]

anybody figure out a money-maker on my pants thing yet?

Trick lasso performances.

I could be charging for that?

Can you whip a cigarette out of someone's mouth?

If they stand far enough away.

It's actually funnier if you miss occasionally.

 

[Sarnoff]

Man... this is all I want also Otis.. not so much being rich.. but just having enough jack that I don't have to work another day.

I also play the lottery like a poor bum... about $10 a time but only about 5-6 times a year... hoping to hit it rich so I don't have to pull another tooth or do a crown the rest of my days.

I figure I need about 5 M and at 36 I don't even have 1M yet.... so I really don't know how anyone does it without adopting the Mr. Money Mustache method.. which unfortunately is just too extreme for me.

Didn't know about that site but found this interesting:

Financial Independence enthusiasts will have the closest-to-correct answer: take your annual spending, and multiply it by somewhere between 20 and 50. That’s your retirement number. If you use the number 25, you’re implicitly using a 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate, which is my own personal favorite number.

So where does this magic number come from? At the most basic level, you can think of it like this: imagine you have your ‘stash of retirement savings invested in stocks or other assets. They pay dividends and appreciate in price at a total rate of 7% per year, before inflation. Inflation eats 3% on average, leaving you with 4% to spend reliably, forever.

Wonder how accurate that is. I mean, taking my spending today and then projecting out to the future doesn't take into account the inflation between now and then.

I think a calculator like this takes more of the time variables into account: http://money.msn.com/retirement/retirement-calculator.aspx

 

[Dentist]

Looks like your watch slot might be taking up more than 80 investable dollars.

I'm really pumped I've made investable dollars a thing

 

[James Daulton]

If Oats can't figure out how to get rich being a patent lawyer in NYC, we're all in trouble. Well except Chet and Dentist. Chet because he's already rich and Dentist because he lives like he makes minimum wage.

 

[Dentist]

I was just telling my partner the other day that what I need is that one rich client. I'm tired of getting the call that goes like this:

"hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him/her your number. But take it easy on them because they don't have a lot of money."

Instead, I would prefer this phone call:

"Hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen, I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him your number. But be prepared, his name is (Derek Jeter, Bill Gates, Simon Cowell. your rich guy here) and he wants a local attorney to handle things for him. Obviously, he has a ton of money and just wants a local guy to take care of everything so he doesn't have to think about it."

See - that second call - I could be Tom Hagen. That's the perfect lawyer job. Tom Hagen. One client. Paid well. Got to go to big Italian weddings all the time. That's who I want to be when I grow up.

This is how I feel most of the time when I get a new dental patient into the office.

Every morning we have a 7-8 minute meeting about the patients coming in that day.. especially the ones that are new to the office... the gals who take the calls will tell me about the patient, how they got to the office, what their chief concern or need is, etc.

And I swear 75% of the new patient reports sound like this: Patient found us on our innernet site, loved all the good reviews we had, has X dental problem, are super concerned with costs - they were unsure even if they would have $50 for the deductible.. wanted to know if we took "payments"... and they are scared... and they are going to be in a hurry.. and probably bring their screaming infant baby...

sigh... just once I'd like to hear: Patient has X dental problem, wants the best possible care you can provide regardless of cost and has the day off so take the proper time you need to deliver the best care possible.... they are not fearful of dentistry and were thankful they could get an appointment today.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I was just telling my partner the other day that what I need is that one rich client. I'm tired of getting the call that goes like this:

"hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him/her your number. But take it easy on them because they don't have a lot of money."

Instead, I would prefer this phone call:

"Hey, Y23F, hope all is well. Listen, I have a friend who needs an attorney for yada yada yada and I gave him your number. But be prepared, his name is (Derek Jeter, Bill Gates, Simon Cowell. your rich guy here) and he wants a local attorney to handle things for him. Obviously, he has a ton of money and just wants a local guy to take care of everything so he doesn't have to think about it."

See - that second call - I could be Tom Hagen. That's the perfect lawyer job. Tom Hagen. One client. Paid well. Got to go to big Italian weddings all the time. That's who I want to be when I grow up.

Sure, if you don't mind the occasional kidnapping at the hands of an angry Turk or being insulted by Hollywood producers.

 

[Tecumseh]

Honestly don't get the luxury cars thing anymore. I used to see a guy driving around in a Ferrari when I was like 20 and think "lucky *******, that looks so awesome, I need one." Nowadays I see that and my first thought is more like, "pff, doosh." I'm not sure what caused the perspective shift. Having kids maybe?

I sure would love one of those old Broncos, restored. If I had a desperate need to buy a super fast sports car, it would be one of the current Corvettes -- they're beautiful, and what bang for the buck. But the high end stuff? I just totally don't see it.

Otis, if there is one thing I can tell you about vehicles.. it's that old stuff is completely overrated in every way. I have and maintain an older British convertible and an old boat and I have come to HATE maintaining old things and really appreciate the advances that have been made in modern vehicles.

I'm not talking about bluetooth speakers in your car or an 8" heads up display w/ GPS or a tailgate that closes itself.. a lot of stuff they pack into today's cars is just garbage that is going to break.

But modern breaks, seatbelts, attachments for car seats, airbags, smooth transmissions, etc... that is all really good stuff... screw old stuff... and I'm speaking from having way too much experience

I always thought that taking the shells from some of the old school steel-body beasts, and modernizing them with modern breaks, air bags, etc and selling them to the parents of teenagers would be a pretty fun way to make money, and cut down on the number of fatalities when these little snowflakes decide to wrap their fiberglass sweet 16 present around a bridge abutment.

Guys it's brakes.

ugh.. my bad.. autocorrect didn't help me there...

, except I can't blame autocorrect.

 

[Koya]

So, fair points about the local real estate market providing some opportunistic investment opportunities gets ignored but an angry turks dental issues is all la-di-da.

Fine, I'll take my money and go home.

 

[OC Zed]

So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned;

Counting the money you put into it and transaction costs?

Correct.

To be fair, you are buying the new house in the same general market as other homes. Thus a significant portion/all of the gains you made in those homes is being eaten up in the higher price of the new house versus what it would have cost you 5-10 years ago.

Also, housing has historically been a relatively poor investment when factoring in inflation and all of the costs of ownership. The housing market in the last 10 years (particularly in NY) has been a total anomaly and juiced by government intervention. This isn't sustainable.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So, fair points about the local real estate market providing some opportunistic investment opportunities gets ignored but an angry turks dental issues is all la-di-da.

Fine, I'll take my money and go home.

I don't live in NY, I don't know anything about NY, and I know about :thismuch: more about real estate. What are we talking about here? Vacant buildings with a little too much dry newspaper stored inside for kindling? Crack houses with gas cans in the closets? "Beach front" boardwalk properties? Oh! Oh! Slumlording? Please be slumlording.

 

[sublimeone]

Live on 50% of what you make. Invest the rest. This is the quickest way to retire young without having some kind of fortunate break.

 

[bigbottom]

I wanna be rich

 

[Dentist]

Live on 50% of what you make. Invest the rest. This is the quickest way to retire young without having some kind of fortunate break.

Agree.

Otis's problem is that he chooses for good reasons (family) to live in a really expensive area.

That choice is going to turn out to be unbelievably expensive though in the long run with the COL in his area... I'd say it will add a decade or more to his working time.

Similarly even though the midwest is cheap.. i choose to live in Kansas City which while inexpensive, still is a relatively competitive market for dentiteing... whereas I have friends that live in smaller town MIssouri where the dentist density is sparse and the COL is even lower... those guys clean up.. My decision to live near family and in an area with cool stuff to do even in a lower COL area will probably add 10 years to my working time.

It's a lot easier to live on 50% when you make 6 figures though... I can't imagine that would be possible without living at a below poverty level if you're just a regular dude pulling in 50-70K a year.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I wanna be rich

I'll see that, and raise you this.

 

[Koya]

So, fair points about the local real estate market providing some opportunistic investment opportunities gets ignored but an angry turks dental issues is all la-di-da.

Fine, I'll take my money and go home.

I don't live in NY, I don't know anything about NY, and I know about :thismuch: more about real estate. What are we talking about here? Vacant buildings with a little too much dry newspaper stored inside for kindling? Crack houses with gas cans in the closets? "Beach front" boardwalk properties? Oh! Oh! Slumlording? Please be slumlording.

A little of column A...

In our region, LI to be specific, there is a huge lack of rental product. Whether it's a rehab, or getting an income property of a few units or even ground up construction to maximize long term gains, the market has been so constrained by the unwillingness of uppity white municipalities to provide any rentals at all in the land of single family homes and suburbia that there's a huge market opportunity for projects that are approved or that you feel can be approved in certain areas that have become more open to the idea.

If you can find such value add or ground up investments in some of the up and coming downtowns around rail then you have a huge opportunity to get not only the LI market , but folks that seek a transit connected alternative to nyc or Brooklyn, probably based upon lower pricing but possibly a desire to love connected to but not in the big city

ETA: Real estate is a hyperlocal investment. Block by block could mean something, and REALLY knowing the local entitlement game is key. That said, Otis likely could find folks through the legal network alone to get part of the "team" together and likely from there find well connected builders to perform.

 

[NutterButter]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

Pretty much your standard Otis thread

 

[Sarnoff]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

Him and Woz would make quite the team

 

[Koya]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

Pretty much your standard Otis thread

Looks like I'll need to find a pet project to invest in a property next to the new O-home and slumlord the value to ####.

 

[Judge Smails]

Otis, you'll never be rich and retire because no matter what you have you want more. If you got $9m, you'd just want $100m so you could do the things people with $100m do.

Learn to be happy with what you have (which appears to be a lot), and you can quit worrying about all the stupid stuff you worry about.

You're missing the point here. This isn't about stuff. It's about never having to work every again, forever, times infiniti (or at least till I'm dead).

Fair enough. That was harsher than I meant it to be (you got it before my quick edit), but you seem like you're always focused on "next" rather than where you are. That's a hard thing to stop doing.

The problem with Otis and a lot of people especially with money is that there's never an "enough point". They make more money, they find a way to spend more money. There's always some new, more expensive material possession to acquire.

I'm not really a "stuff" guy to be honest. The only car we own is an 8 year old Land Rover with squeaky breaks. I like it and can smoke cigars in it.



My weekend clothes are a t shirt and jeans that are ripped to shreds.

I am wearing the same suit I wore yesterday, mostly because I don't have any other clean suits (and really only have 2-3 other suits that fit me right now anyway, though I admit I just bought a couple new suits online at $400 a pop so I don't have to keep wearing the same clothes).

I have a Macbook that I bought this year, it's pretty nice. Sold off most of my guitars, kept one electric (bought used, $1500) and one acoustic (bought used, $800), along with an amp I got off craigslist for $75 that had been sitting in a guy's garage since the 80s.

I wear an $80 watch I got off Woot.

I drank a can of coors light on the train last night.

Not sure you guys quite get Otis. I do like to gamble a bit, and I do enjoy a decent amount of booze in the household (sometimes we bust through a few bottles of wine at $30 a pop, but I try to keep our daily drinker to $12), but I don't really consider myself a stuff guy. I guess the only "stuff" we can be held accountable for these days is the expensive house we just bought, but that's not really a material possession so much as a place to live forever (and hopefully a good investment).

Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm a stuff guy in many respects. I'm just trying to be objective here. You ARE a "stuff" guy. It's just that the "stuff" has changed over the years. Pretty sure you used to buy (or lease) expensive cars and clothes. Now you buy expensive homes. And the musical instruments don't really help the argument, as you've been buying and selling extremely expensive guitars over the last few years. That's evidence of your affinity for stuff (even if you have a tendency to tire of them and sell them off).

I sold off all those instruments. They were fun. I didn't lose money on them.

Sure, as a younger man I bought expensive cars and the like. (Not so sure about expensive clothes, that wasn't ever my thing). But I grew out of that relatively young. The expensive cars feel like a waste to me these days. I don't own any.

Given the above, not sure how you build a case that I'm a "stuff" guy. But I'm all ears, counselor.

You've got me on the house. My dad's advice was always that buying a good home in a good area is never a bad way to spend money. So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned; hoping never to sell the one we are moving into till I'm in the ground.

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

 

[johnnycakes]

Otis, you'll never be rich and retire because no matter what you have you want more. If you got $9m, you'd just want $100m so you could do the things people with $100m do.

Learn to be happy with what you have (which appears to be a lot), and you can quit worrying about all the stupid stuff you worry about.

You're missing the point here. This isn't about stuff. It's about never having to work every again, forever, times infiniti (or at least till I'm dead).

Fair enough. That was harsher than I meant it to be (you got it before my quick edit), but you seem like you're always focused on "next" rather than where you are. That's a hard thing to stop doing.

The problem with Otis and a lot of people especially with money is that there's never an "enough point". They make more money, they find a way to spend more money. There's always some new, more expensive material possession to acquire.

I'm not really a "stuff" guy to be honest. The only car we own is an 8 year old Land Rover with squeaky breaks. I like it and can smoke cigars in it.



My weekend clothes are a t shirt and jeans that are ripped to shreds.

I am wearing the same suit I wore yesterday, mostly because I don't have any other clean suits (and really only have 2-3 other suits that fit me right now anyway, though I admit I just bought a couple new suits online at $400 a pop so I don't have to keep wearing the same clothes).

I have a Macbook that I bought this year, it's pretty nice. Sold off most of my guitars, kept one electric (bought used, $1500) and one acoustic (bought used, $800), along with an amp I got off craigslist for $75 that had been sitting in a guy's garage since the 80s.

I wear an $80 watch I got off Woot.

I drank a can of coors light on the train last night.

Not sure you guys quite get Otis. I do like to gamble a bit, and I do enjoy a decent amount of booze in the household (sometimes we bust through a few bottles of wine at $30 a pop, but I try to keep our daily drinker to $12), but I don't really consider myself a stuff guy. I guess the only "stuff" we can be held accountable for these days is the expensive house we just bought, but that's not really a material possession so much as a place to live forever (and hopefully a good investment).

Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm a stuff guy in many respects. I'm just trying to be objective here. You ARE a "stuff" guy. It's just that the "stuff" has changed over the years. Pretty sure you used to buy (or lease) expensive cars and clothes. Now you buy expensive homes. And the musical instruments don't really help the argument, as you've been buying and selling extremely expensive guitars over the last few years. That's evidence of your affinity for stuff (even if you have a tendency to tire of them and sell them off).

I sold off all those instruments. They were fun. I didn't lose money on them.

Sure, as a younger man I bought expensive cars and the like. (Not so sure about expensive clothes, that wasn't ever my thing). But I grew out of that relatively young. The expensive cars feel like a waste to me these days. I don't own any.

Given the above, not sure how you build a case that I'm a "stuff" guy. But I'm all ears, counselor.

You've got me on the house. My dad's advice was always that buying a good home in a good area is never a bad way to spend money. So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned; hoping never to sell the one we are moving into till I'm in the ground.

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

ETA: Dentist... think about it!

 

[TheWalkmen]

$2M in debt and you're not a "stuff" guy?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah, Otis, I don't think you know where your money is going. First thing would be a 60-day financial tracking. You and your wife only buy things with a credit card for 60 days, and track where every penny goes.

Cool, we've entered the phase of giving Otis advice he will never take. Should be novel.

Pretty much your standard Otis thread

Looks like I'll need to find a pet project to invest in a property next to the new O-home and slumlord the value to ####.

PM sent

 

[jamny]

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

We're the same way. We bought our house for $170k back in 1994 and paid off the mortgage in 12 years. Lots of baloney sandwiches for lunch and pizza/pasta for dinner. It now worth close to $600k. We have that much in savings and investments too. We live very low key lives, not a lot of stuff. Our weakness is very expensive vacations and lots of wine. Within another 10 years, we will have seen everything we probably will ever want to. We take 3-5 trips a year. After that, our spending will be minimal.

Also, neither of us ever plan on retiring. It's healthy to keep working. We'll just be doing it on our terms.

 

[NewlyRetired]

But I'm all ears, counselor.You've got me on the house. My dad's advice was always that buying a good home in a good area is never a bad way to spend money. So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned; hoping never to sell the one we are moving into till I'm in the ground.

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept of he made money off of so many of his luxury purchases over the years and is 2 million is debt right now.

 

[Dentist]

Otis, you'll never be rich and retire because no matter what you have you want more. If you got $9m, you'd just want $100m so you could do the things people with $100m do.

Learn to be happy with what you have (which appears to be a lot), and you can quit worrying about all the stupid stuff you worry about.

You're missing the point here. This isn't about stuff. It's about never having to work every again, forever, times infiniti (or at least till I'm dead).

Fair enough. That was harsher than I meant it to be (you got it before my quick edit), but you seem like you're always focused on "next" rather than where you are. That's a hard thing to stop doing.

The problem with Otis and a lot of people especially with money is that there's never an "enough point". They make more money, they find a way to spend more money. There's always some new, more expensive material possession to acquire.

I'm not really a "stuff" guy to be honest. The only car we own is an 8 year old Land Rover with squeaky breaks. I like it and can smoke cigars in it.



My weekend clothes are a t shirt and jeans that are ripped to shreds.

I am wearing the same suit I wore yesterday, mostly because I don't have any other clean suits (and really only have 2-3 other suits that fit me right now anyway, though I admit I just bought a couple new suits online at $400 a pop so I don't have to keep wearing the same clothes).

I have a Macbook that I bought this year, it's pretty nice. Sold off most of my guitars, kept one electric (bought used, $1500) and one acoustic (bought used, $800), along with an amp I got off craigslist for $75 that had been sitting in a guy's garage since the 80s.

I wear an $80 watch I got off Woot.

I drank a can of coors light on the train last night.

Not sure you guys quite get Otis. I do like to gamble a bit, and I do enjoy a decent amount of booze in the household (sometimes we bust through a few bottles of wine at $30 a pop, but I try to keep our daily drinker to $12), but I don't really consider myself a stuff guy. I guess the only "stuff" we can be held accountable for these days is the expensive house we just bought, but that's not really a material possession so much as a place to live forever (and hopefully a good investment).

Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm a stuff guy in many respects. I'm just trying to be objective here. You ARE a "stuff" guy. It's just that the "stuff" has changed over the years. Pretty sure you used to buy (or lease) expensive cars and clothes. Now you buy expensive homes. And the musical instruments don't really help the argument, as you've been buying and selling extremely expensive guitars over the last few years. That's evidence of your affinity for stuff (even if you have a tendency to tire of them and sell them off).

I sold off all those instruments. They were fun. I didn't lose money on them.

Sure, as a younger man I bought expensive cars and the like. (Not so sure about expensive clothes, that wasn't ever my thing). But I grew out of that relatively young. The expensive cars feel like a waste to me these days. I don't own any.

Given the above, not sure how you build a case that I'm a "stuff" guy. But I'm all ears, counselor.

You've got me on the house. My dad's advice was always that buying a good home in a good area is never a bad way to spend money. So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned; hoping never to sell the one we are moving into till I'm in the ground.

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

ETA: Dentist... think about it!

I realize my cheapness reputation looms large on these forums.

But life experiences, leisure, and vacation are the areas that I DO splurge on.

I may live in a house built for someone who makes 35-40% of what I do, drive a 10 year old car, am completely out of style with clothing, bring my lunch to work every day, and have a dumbphone..

BUT I have a boat (albeit an old one) and use it at least 15-20 days a year... I take an elaborate vacation almost every year.. have been to Europe, Barbados, Turks and Caicos, Mexico.. all in the last 4 years... goto 10-12 MLB games a year in premium seats (albeit w/ taking my own food in and smuggling my own alcohol in).. and eat at a few nice restaurants every year.

I'm not a miserable person.. I enjoy my life... I just don't want to work ONE day more than I have to.. I hate work... and it's not just fixing teeth.. I hate being tied down to anything... I like to do what I want to do when I want to do it... and bills and work keep you from doing that... it sucks.. and I'm lucky enough to have a high enough paying job that if I buckle down I can free myself of these chains at an age early enough that I have a lot of good years left!

 

[TheIronSheik]

2 million in debt? Damn. I had no idea I was $2,000,025.17 richer than Otis.

 

[dgreen]

$2M in debt and you're not a "stuff" guy?

Needs $9M so he can spend $200k/year...but not a "stuff" guy.

 

[Dentist]

Wait... am I reading this right Otis? Your net worth is -2 Million?

Surely you have positive assets as well 401k, savings, checking, other investments..

Negative net worth at your age.. well that just sux0rs

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

Pretty much this.

I'd be shocked if everybody's not a "stuff" guy in some manner. The stuff just differs. Cigars are stuff. They may not accumulate in a closet or sit on your coffee table for people to ooh and ahh over, but they're stuff nonetheless. I wouldn't call myself a "stuff" person. I spend less money on clothes in a year than WetDream spends on restraints and K-Y. I don't accumulate things or go over the top on cars or any of that. We save an amount I've deemed sufficient to reach our retirement goals in a timely manner, and beyond that we still spend more than we probably need to. It doesn't just disappear. Our "stuff" just happens to be more along the lines of traveling and eating out and drinking wine. Tools, sports, gambling, drinking, traveling, smoking, dressing, driving, impregnating... everybody's got their thing.

 

[Politician Spock]

The Stuff

Great movie!

 

[bigbottom]

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

x 1000. You never know how valuable memories are until they're all you have. I've been ratcheting down at work for a while now. Not sure how much it will impact my future here. But I'm all about maximizing time with my family and my passions now.

 

[NutterButter]

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

We're the same way. We bought our house for $170k back in 1994 and paid off the mortgage in 12 years. Lots of baloney sandwiches for lunch and pizza/pasta for dinner. It now worth close to $600k. We have that much in savings and investments too. We live very low key lives, not a lot of stuff. Our weakness is very expensive vacations and lots of wine. Within another 10 years, we will have seen everything we probably will ever want to. We take 3-5 trips a year. After that, our spending will be minimal.

Also, neither of us ever plan on retiring. It's healthy to keep working. We'll just be doing it on our terms.

Good god. We talking 5 flying trips? How many kids you got?

 

[NutterButter]

Otis, you'll never be rich and retire because no matter what you have you want more. If you got $9m, you'd just want $100m so you could do the things people with $100m do.

Learn to be happy with what you have (which appears to be a lot), and you can quit worrying about all the stupid stuff you worry about.

You're missing the point here. This isn't about stuff. It's about never having to work every again, forever, times infiniti (or at least till I'm dead).

Fair enough. That was harsher than I meant it to be (you got it before my quick edit), but you seem like you're always focused on "next" rather than where you are. That's a hard thing to stop doing.

The problem with Otis and a lot of people especially with money is that there's never an "enough point". They make more money, they find a way to spend more money. There's always some new, more expensive material possession to acquire.

I'm not really a "stuff" guy to be honest. The only car we own is an 8 year old Land Rover with squeaky breaks. I like it and can smoke cigars in it.



My weekend clothes are a t shirt and jeans that are ripped to shreds.

I am wearing the same suit I wore yesterday, mostly because I don't have any other clean suits (and really only have 2-3 other suits that fit me right now anyway, though I admit I just bought a couple new suits online at $400 a pop so I don't have to keep wearing the same clothes).

I have a Macbook that I bought this year, it's pretty nice. Sold off most of my guitars, kept one electric (bought used, $1500) and one acoustic (bought used, $800), along with an amp I got off craigslist for $75 that had been sitting in a guy's garage since the 80s.

I wear an $80 watch I got off Woot.

I drank a can of coors light on the train last night.

Not sure you guys quite get Otis. I do like to gamble a bit, and I do enjoy a decent amount of booze in the household (sometimes we bust through a few bottles of wine at $30 a pop, but I try to keep our daily drinker to $12), but I don't really consider myself a stuff guy. I guess the only "stuff" we can be held accountable for these days is the expensive house we just bought, but that's not really a material possession so much as a place to live forever (and hopefully a good investment).

Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm a stuff guy in many respects. I'm just trying to be objective here. You ARE a "stuff" guy. It's just that the "stuff" has changed over the years. Pretty sure you used to buy (or lease) expensive cars and clothes. Now you buy expensive homes. And the musical instruments don't really help the argument, as you've been buying and selling extremely expensive guitars over the last few years. That's evidence of your affinity for stuff (even if you have a tendency to tire of them and sell them off).

I sold off all those instruments. They were fun. I didn't lose money on them.

Sure, as a younger man I bought expensive cars and the like. (Not so sure about expensive clothes, that wasn't ever my thing). But I grew out of that relatively young. The expensive cars feel like a waste to me these days. I don't own any.

Given the above, not sure how you build a case that I'm a "stuff" guy. But I'm all ears, counselor.

You've got me on the house. My dad's advice was always that buying a good home in a good area is never a bad way to spend money. So far I've made money on both of the first two homes I owned; hoping never to sell the one we are moving into till I'm in the ground.

Also not big vacationers. Haven't done a big vacation in a long long time. Went to Puerto Rico last year on miles.

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

ETA: Dentist... think about it!

Dentist just got a kid. Give him some time to change his thinking.

 

[jamny]

I plead guilty on the vacations. I'm a life experience guy. I buy 2 year old cars, live in a nice but relatively modest home for my income, etc. But I don't subscribe to not live now so you can do whatever you want when you can't do whatever you want. The family vacations we take every year are some of my best memories and one reason I think our family is so tight. Heading to Cabo for 2 weeks on Saturday.

We're the same way. We bought our house for $170k back in 1994 and paid off the mortgage in 12 years. Lots of baloney sandwiches for lunch and pizza/pasta for dinner. It now worth close to $600k. We have that much in savings and investments too. We live very low key lives, not a lot of stuff. Our weakness is very expensive vacations and lots of wine. Within another 10 years, we will have seen everything we probably will ever want to. We take 3-5 trips a year. After that, our spending will be minimal.

Also, neither of us ever plan on retiring. It's healthy to keep working. We'll just be doing it on our terms.

Good god. We talking 5 flying trips? How many kids you got?

0...DINK

One trip will usually be driving. Heading up to Vermont in August. Vegas in a few weeks, South of France in September