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If Babe Ruth stepped into a time machine (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Wilt was crazy athletic, a track star at Kansas, especially in the high jump.
I think in today's NBA he could immediately be a modern-style big like Tyson Chandler or Mitchell Robinson - protect the rim, get rebounds, score on pick and rolls and putbacks. That's kind of how he was playing at the end of his career anyway. I'm not so sure the high-volume scoring would translate given his lack of shooting skill, but maybe modern coaches could figure that out.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was joking about Altuve - yes, players work out more, but generally speaking size and strength are not as important in baseball as they are you basketball or football - do you not watch those sports?
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, but these guys today would get their *** kicked by the Steroid Era guys, so there's that
massraider
Footballguy
I remember the story about him out-racing Jim Brown when he was barefoot.
To be fair to the Sultan of Swat and the old timers.....I'd imagine most pitchers from today wouldn't fare well back then. When they started talking load management/pitch counts and 4 and 5 days rest....managers like John McGraw would have had them tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail.
Chemical X
Footballguy
The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs is a 432-page non-fiction book by Bill Jenkinson published by Carroll & Graf Publishers in March 2007. The title refers to Jenkinson's conclusion that in modern ballparks under modern rules, Ruth would have hit 104 home runs in 1921, 90 in some other seasons, and over 60 many times. The author's research concludes that Ruth would have hit well over a thousand home runs in his career.[1]
According to the introduction, the book is not a new Babe Ruth biography but is a factual treatise of Ruth's power and his dominance of the game of baseball.[2]
According to the introduction, the book is not a new Babe Ruth biography but is a factual treatise of Ruth's power and his dominance of the game of baseball.[2]
And you deleted it in 5 seconds like a big baby
massraider
Footballguy
Right!! Let's drop all the pitchers into the 1930's, and give them that workload
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I think if you sent Giannis back to the 50s NBA, it would ruin basketball forever. They'd be so freaked out by him they'd ban dribbling and raise the rim to 13 feet, and the sport would never really catch on like it did.
Do the pitchers have all the training and technology of today to throw high 90s and increase spin rate?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Not to be pedantic but if you give any MLB team in 2023 the opportunity to put the time traveling Babe Ruth on their roster I think the marketing folks (much less the owner) would figure out a way to get him on the roster.
I think he'd start in the minors like Michael Jordan and Tim Tebow.
Doug B
Footballguy
I don't really know the answer, but:
Could modern guys throw that way for 150-170 pitches a game for 40 starts? A lot of three-days-rest starts, too.
LMAO at "I took a shot at you". I made a joke and you acted all sensitive and reacted by calling me a jackass then werent even man enough to leave it posted for longer than 5 seconds.So you’re trying to prove me correct.And you deleted it in 5 seconds like a big baby
I deleted because this place doesn’t need it - but that’s the third time you’ve took a shot at me and it didn’t sit right. I “reacted”. I decided to be mature and actually “respond” instead. Whatever.
No chance
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
One of my favorite parts of his autobiography, which had a lot of great stories.
IIRC the first time they raced, Brown wasn't taking it seriously and Wilt smoked him. So they ran again and Wilt won, but just barely. Brown wanted one more shot, but Wilt had cut his toe on a piece of glass (they were just racing barefoot in somebody's yard at a party) and left to patch it up.
dkp993
Footballguy
Maybe, but they were also putting stuff on the ball (vaseline, etc.) to get movement that I’m betting came close to mirroring todays pitchers.
massraider
Footballguy
I must say, the concept of dropping one of these pitchers with a truly special pitch into the old timey days is fun to think about.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
There isn't a player in any sport that could just time travel from their prime to right now and be as good as they were, but if you brought them along with all the advancements in training, medicine, nutrition etc, then I think most if not all of them would be just as good as they were before.
Example. Do I think you could drop 30 year old Michael Jordan into the NBA right and he would be the best player in the NBA? No he wouldn't. Now bring back highschool Jordan and let him have all the advantages and I think you get a guy that is maybe the greatest ever.
I am also talking about all time great players not end of the bench/fringe guys.
Example. Do I think you could drop 30 year old Michael Jordan into the NBA right and he would be the best player in the NBA? No he wouldn't. Now bring back highschool Jordan and let him have all the advantages and I think you get a guy that is maybe the greatest ever.
I am also talking about all time great players not end of the bench/fringe guys.
Doug B
Footballguy
Just as an aside, I went over to Baseball Reference's Complete Game leaders by season to figure out about when the last of the pitchers played who made good-faith attempts every start to go 9. No pitch counts or load management.
Bert Blyleven completed 24 starts in 1985, and Fernando Valenzuela completed 20 in 1986. Roger Clemens had 18 in 1987 and since then, no one has really approached 20 complete games. Orel Hershiser (1988) and Jack McDowell (1991) each had a season with 15. The last guy to complete 15 starts was Curt Schilling in 1998. That's about where I'd put the cut off for the "trying to go nine" starters -- guys like Schilling, Pedro Martinez (for a while) and Randy Johnson.
The only guy to get in double figures since 1999 was James Shields in 2011. The MLB leaders from 2017-21 all threw two or three complete games. Sandy Alcantara threw a cool SIX for the Marlins last year -- basically the Wilbur Wood of the 2020s.
Bert Blyleven completed 24 starts in 1985, and Fernando Valenzuela completed 20 in 1986. Roger Clemens had 18 in 1987 and since then, no one has really approached 20 complete games. Orel Hershiser (1988) and Jack McDowell (1991) each had a season with 15. The last guy to complete 15 starts was Curt Schilling in 1998. That's about where I'd put the cut off for the "trying to go nine" starters -- guys like Schilling, Pedro Martinez (for a while) and Randy Johnson.
The only guy to get in double figures since 1999 was James Shields in 2011. The MLB leaders from 2017-21 all threw two or three complete games. Sandy Alcantara threw a cool SIX for the Marlins last year -- basically the Wilbur Wood of the 2020s.
Mostly agree with your first paragraph
Disagree with your second. Hand checking rules in the era jordan played in made playing offense so much harder than playing offense in today's game. Jordan would still be the best playing I'm basketball I'm today's game and may have average 40ppg under today's rules.
Doug B
Footballguy
Skoal, too. And I'd have to look it up, but it was once legal to dirty up a ball with mud to make it less white so it was harder to pick up.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
He wouldn't for one reason. He can't shoot 3's. He is like a career 30 percent shooter from deep. Teams would just lay back and take away lanes.
massraider
Footballguy
There's a joke in here about the racial makeup in MLB at the time, but I think it's probably best I move along.
The 3 pt shot existed back then too so not sure what the difference is.
You mean like they did when he was playing but without the physical defense he had to face?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I think The Babe would enjoy our craft beers as well as the modern variations of the hot dog.
That's maybe a fair point too.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
The illegal defense rules. The Bulls could stand Bill Cartwright by the 3-point line and if nobody guarded him it was a technical foul. Made it easier to isolate.
That said I think Jordan would be fine today. He had some pretty decent 3-point shooting years later in his career, even shot .427 one year when the line was moved in. If defenses really started to sag on him he'd have worked on that shot more.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Then we can't help you if you don't understand the difference between the 3 back then and now.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Not even close to the same. The athletes now are much stronger and faster compared to when Jordan played.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree with this, but if you took a time machine and brought 30 year old Jordan in he wouldn't dominate right away. It would take a year or two for him to get used to today's game.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
It's why they have more arm injuries today. They haven't build up endurance and arm strength like the pitchers even a generation ago. Everyone is too soft. Load management in basketball has destroyed the sport for the average fan. Mindset is regular season and home court advantage doesn't matter at all. They just want everyone fresh. Imagine somebody taking the night off Pistons vs Celtics. You have to be kidding me. And all of these load management guys take time off and STILL get hurt. Proves the whole mentality is flawed. Baseball not as bad but pitchers have arm injuries because of low usage, not the other way around.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
You forgot softer and more fragile.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Any discussion of Jordan not thriving today is ludicrous. We're not talking George Mikan 50+ years ago. He'd dominate.
The problem is there are different kinds of load management. Pitch count is one but year long throwing is another. I think there is too much focus on pitch count game to game rather than throws all year long. I also think weight training and striving for max velocity on every throw is a big contributing factor as well.
There aren't "pitchers" any more that manage their effort and pitch sequencing to manage 120 pitches for an outing. They are being taught to get max velocity every pitch which leads to max exertion and stressing every part of the body to attain that. Add in strength training to build up muscle strength and eventually the weak link is going to pop because the body is pushed to it's limits. You can't really strength train the UCL. You can do every surrounding musculator structure which pulls/pushes and stresses the ligaments and eventually the weak link pops.
As far as throwing 52 weeks a year even at a managed count of 70 pitches every 4 days and you never give the body time to recover. Then you get a build up of fatigue/wear and eventually something gives. The body needs time to recover. Pitchers should take 2 months off a year from throwing to let their bodies recover. I think that would also help the overall well being of arm health. There is plenty you can do that isn't throwing that will improve your performance. Give the structures a break.
So for me there are three big factors that come into play:
- No break. 52 weeks of pitching even at lesser pitchcounts leads to fatigue and failure.
- Over strengthening of surrounding muscular structure that leads to ligaments failing as the weak link under max stress.
- Maxing stress on every pitch to gain velocity so the body is pushed to its limits.
massraider
Footballguy
I mean, for real.
massraider
Footballguy
Your avatar is really in sync with you today.
dkp993
Footballguy
Come on man, Jordan couldn’t even make his sophomore basketball team. How good was he really?
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Hasn't the mid-range jumper become obsolete in todays game? Jordan would definitely have to work on his 3 point shot.
Analytics.......
They enter the time machine with the talent they have. But they also would be expected pitch by the standards of the day; to have 50 starts; go 9 innings every time on 4 or less days rest and sometimes come back on no or 1 game of rest and throw.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Ruth swung a 42-44oz bat with the Yankees. Give him a modern bat and he’d at least be Alejandro Kirk.
give Walter Johnson the benefit of modern training & nutrition and he would be pumping 102 to the plate
give Walter Johnson the benefit of modern training & nutrition and he would be pumping 102 to the plate
dkp993
Footballguy
They’d also both sign with the Padres in the offseason.
Wait the 3 pt line moved IN and you're saying Jordan had a low 3 pt % compared to today's players?
Isn't that a point in his favor?
Probably one of the dumber takes I've seen in awhile
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Wait the 3 pt line moved IN and you're saying Jordan had a low 3 pt % compared to today's players?
Isn't that a point in his favor?
You calling people's takes dumb while not understanding the difference the 3 pointer has made on today's game vs the 90's is interesting to put it nicely.
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