If Bob Kraft could only keep one of them... (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

Which one would Kraft choose to keep?

 

[thehornet]

wha???

 

[Raider Nation]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

 

[Dentist]

I think you keep the the talented player ON the field, and hope a coach can come in and pull a Barry Switzer

 

[thehornet]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think you keep the the talented player ON the field, and hope a coach can come in and pull a Barry Switzer

That's my buddy's stance (which is why I started the poll) and I disagreed.Brady will be 31 when the '08 season begins. How many years of elite-level play does he have left?

Five or six? And that's assuming he stays healthy, which you can never assume with QBs. Look at

this Chicago/Washington game as an example... both starting QBs are out with knee injuries.

Meanwhile, Belichick is already widely regarded as the best coach ever, and he could go another 15 years.

 

[dutch]

Favre without Holmgren hasn't panned out so well and Aikman with Switzer worked for only a year.

I'd keep Belichick if I was thinking long term, say 10 years or more down the road. In the now perhaps you stick with Brady.

 

[Raider Nation]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Brady without question. Fans seem to think that football is all about winning, and it's not. Brady with Bill Cowher or Denny Green on the sideline sells out every game and sells a zillion jerseys. The Hood with Matt Cassell under center....not so much.

 

[thehornet]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

creature of habit i guess because i live in new england and am an avid pats fan. But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

 

[Bruno Tataglia]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

:X

 

[Raider Nation]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

 

[thehornet]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

but there isnt one dude. not one in the entire world. not ever. ever. ever.good luck man.

 

[avoiding injuries]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

creature of habit i guess because i live in new england and am an avid pats fan. But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Good God man. It's a hypothetical question. Think outside the box.

 

[kncks12]

Are you kiddin me, you keep a guy that does not touch the field, over a guy who has so much impact on it! This is silly.... Choice is obvious to me that you keep Brady

 

[thehornet]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

creature of habit i guess because i live in new england and am an avid pats fan. But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Good God man. It's a hypothetical question. Think outside the box.

i know man. but as ap ats fan, i am sick of 10+ hypothetical pats threads a day. it's boring and silly and has no point. but ill peace out of here now. good luck dude.

 

[Raider Nation]

Are you kiddin me, you keep a guy that does not touch the field, over a guy who has so much impact on it! This is silly.... Choice is obvious to me that you keep Brady

That's why I asked the question, my man.To me, it's just as clear that Belichick is the guy you wouldn't want to lose.

I will clearly admit that BB sucked as a HC in Cleveland, but that was also a learning experience for him.

 

[gianmarco]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

but there isnt one dude. not one in the entire world. not ever. ever. ever.good luck man.

Let's see if I can put this into a context you can understand. As an avid Pats fan, you're driving along and see a car that just had a horrible accident hanging off a cliff. Brady and Belichick were riding together since they are such great friends when it crashed on their way to lunch together. Both are healthy and well but hanging off the edge. You only have enough strength and time to save one while the other will surely perish and the future of the Patriots lies in YOUR hands. Who do you save for the good of the NE Patriots since you are an avid fan?

 

[Raider Nation]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

but there isnt one dude. not one in the entire world. not ever. ever. ever.good luck man.

Let's see if I can put this into a context you can understand. As an avid Pats fan, you're driving along and see a car that just had a horrible accident hanging off a cliff. Brady and Belichick were riding together since they are such great friends when it crashed on their way to lunch together. Both are healthy and well but hanging off the edge. You only have enough strength and time to save one while the other will surely perish and the future of the Patriots lies in YOUR hands. Who do you save for the good of the NE Patriots since you are an avid fan?

but they would never be driving together.... not ever. ever. ever.

 

[thehornet]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

but there isnt one dude. not one in the entire world. not ever. ever. ever.good luck man.

Let's see if I can put this into a context you can understand. As an avid Pats fan, you're driving along and see a car that just had a horrible accident hanging off a cliff. Brady and Belichick were riding together since they are such great friends when it crashed on their way to lunch together. Both are healthy and well but hanging off the edge. You only have enough strength and time to save one while the other will surely perish and the future of the Patriots lies in YOUR hands. Who do you save for the good of the NE Patriots since you are an avid fan?

but they would never be driving together.... not ever. ever. ever.

ok, in this case, brady.

 

[Raider Nation]

Brady pulling away. Guess I'm in the minority here.

 

[Chreesto]

I like the question.

I'd keep Belichick and it isn't really close for me. Brady is a world beater but Belichick is an evil genius and has clearly sold his soul to the devil in exchange for football success. The devil is paying off big time. You want a guy like that running your team.

 

[The Ref]

I already know how this is going to go after I post this, so you can believe or not believe me at face value. Without geting into a big long "my sisters, brothers, dog is the baby sitter for bob kraft" story, lets just say I have it on good accord that the relationship between the Krafts and Bill Belichick is not a rosey as it may apear. Some sienior members of the Kraft camp and Bill Belichick are not the best of friends and rarely see eye to eye on a lot of things. You could go so far as to say as parts of the Kraft camp really does not like BB at all on a personal level. With that being said, Bob Kraft learned a lesson many years ago not to upset the apple cart when things are going well when Parcells left the club before the Super Bowl in 95 so he puts up with some of the issues for the good of the team. So despite a rather rocky behind the scenes relationship, the Krafts wont part ways with BB as things are going so well but if they thought it would not effect the team they would have no issues with parting ways with BB.

So back to the OP question, the Krafts would keep Brady 100% as they are not big fans of BB.

 

[Raider Nation]

I already know how this is going to go after I post this, so you can believe or not believe me at face value. Without geting into a big long "my sisters, brothers, dog is the baby sitter for bob kraft" story, lets just say I have it on good accord that the relationship between the Krafts and Bill Belichick is not a rosey as it may apear. Some sienior members of the Kraft camp and Bill Belichick are not the best of friends and rarely see eye to eye on a lot of things. You could go so far as to say as parts of the Kraft camp really does not like BB at all on a personal level. With that being said, Bob Kraft learned a lesson many years ago not to upset the apple cart when things are going well when Parcells left the club before the Super Bowl in 95 so he puts up with some of the issues for the good of the team. So despite a rather rocky behind the scenes relationship, the Krafts wont part ways with BB as things are going so well but if they thought it would not effect the team they would have no issues with parting ways with BB.So back to the OP question, the Krafts would keep Brady 100% as they are not big fans of BB.

Any word on what's at the root of the rocky relationship?

 

[The Ref]

I already know how this is going to go after I post this, so you can believe or not believe me at face value. Without geting into a big long "my sisters, brothers, dog is the baby sitter for bob kraft" story, lets just say I have it on good accord that the relationship between the Krafts and Bill Belichick is not a rosey as it may apear. Some sienior members of the Kraft camp and Bill Belichick are not the best of friends and rarely see eye to eye on a lot of things. You could go so far as to say as parts of the Kraft camp really does not like BB at all on a personal level. With that being said, Bob Kraft learned a lesson many years ago not to upset the apple cart when things are going well when Parcells left the club before the Super Bowl in 95 so he puts up with some of the issues for the good of the team. So despite a rather rocky behind the scenes relationship, the Krafts wont part ways with BB as things are going so well but if they thought it would not effect the team they would have no issues with parting ways with BB.So back to the OP question, the Krafts would keep Brady 100% as they are not big fans of BB.

Any word on what's at the root of the rocky relationship?

Honestly, no.

 

[Raider Nation]

I already know how this is going to go after I post this, so you can believe or not believe me at face value. Without geting into a big long "my sisters, brothers, dog is the baby sitter for bob kraft" story, lets just say I have it on good accord that the relationship between the Krafts and Bill Belichick is not a rosey as it may apear. Some sienior members of the Kraft camp and Bill Belichick are not the best of friends and rarely see eye to eye on a lot of things. You could go so far as to say as parts of the Kraft camp really does not like BB at all on a personal level. With that being said, Bob Kraft learned a lesson many years ago not to upset the apple cart when things are going well when Parcells left the club before the Super Bowl in 95 so he puts up with some of the issues for the good of the team. So despite a rather rocky behind the scenes relationship, the Krafts wont part ways with BB as things are going so well but if they thought it would not effect the team they would have no issues with parting ways with BB.So back to the OP question, the Krafts would keep Brady 100% as they are not big fans of BB.

Any word on what's at the root of the rocky relationship?

Honestly, no.

Belichick probably slept with Kraft's wife.

 

[The Ref]

I already know how this is going to go after I post this, so you can believe or not believe me at face value. Without geting into a big long "my sisters, brothers, dog is the baby sitter for bob kraft" story, lets just say I have it on good accord that the relationship between the Krafts and Bill Belichick is not a rosey as it may apear. Some sienior members of the Kraft camp and Bill Belichick are not the best of friends and rarely see eye to eye on a lot of things. You could go so far as to say as parts of the Kraft camp really does not like BB at all on a personal level. With that being said, Bob Kraft learned a lesson many years ago not to upset the apple cart when things are going well when Parcells left the club before the Super Bowl in 95 so he puts up with some of the issues for the good of the team. So despite a rather rocky behind the scenes relationship, the Krafts wont part ways with BB as things are going so well but if they thought it would not effect the team they would have no issues with parting ways with BB.So back to the OP question, the Krafts would keep Brady 100% as they are not big fans of BB.

Any word on what's at the root of the rocky relationship?

Honestly, no.

Belichick probably slept with Kraft's wife.

Who Told You?J/K

 

[Loopdog]

everyone seems to forget that Tom Brady was once a Matt Cassel type player. I'm sure many would have laughed at the thought of him replacing Bledsoe and having success since he was a 6th round pick who was unheralded coming out of college. I also have heard rumblings about the Pats front office not being huge BB fans. There was a rumor around here last year that BB might be the next Giants coach, but he in fact signed an extension with the Patriots recently. To me, it's not a cut and dry question. Do the Pats still have the same team? Is their offensive line still superb without Brady? I think Bill is more valuable to the equation but I think Brady is damn good.

 

[phthalatemagic]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

But you don't understand!!!! They are FRIENDS!!!!

 

[Phlash]

Its no secret that Bob Kraft's son, Jonathan Kraft, has NEVER liked Belichick.

Bob loves BB, and think he's an awesome coach and loves him coaching the team. Jonathan, however, does not like BBs demeanor or personality.

 

[-OZ-]

Brady without question. Fans seem to think that football is all about winning, and it's not. Brady with Bill Cowher or Denny Green on the sideline sells out every game and sells a zillion jerseys. The Hood with Matt Cassell under center....not so much.

fair point.How about the Hood with Matt Ryan?

 

[The Ref]

Its no secret that Bob Kraft's son, Jonathan Kraft, has NEVER liked Belichick.Bob loves BB, and think he's an awesome coach and loves him coaching the team. Jonathan, however, does not like BBs demeanor or personality.

Allrighty then. I didn't realize it was out in the open. One of my buddies is one of JK college pals.

 

[SSOG]

There's a reason why top players make significantly more per season than top coaches. SIGNIFICANTLY more per season. Cost indicates worth. If top coaches were worth as much as a Brady or Manning, then top coaches would sign 10-year, $100 million dollar deals.

 

[Blueb]

Brady without question. Fans seem to think that football is all about winning, and it's not. Brady with Bill Cowher or Denny Green on the sideline sells out every game and sells a zillion jerseys. The Hood with Matt Cassell under center....not so much.

Good point. And a much better point now than it was 1-2 years ago during which Brady assumed megastud status. Its hard for me to quantify the actual revenues Brady brings in vs. a winning record.From a pure football perspective there is no question in my mind that BB is more important than Brady. I honestly believe that Brady is an excellent QB but is also a product of a terrific system. There are many other QBs that would have done just as well on the same team. BB built the system. Brady is the hardest single piece of it to replace, but he is replaceable. Every player is.

 

[SSOG]

everyone seems to forget that Tom Brady was once a Matt Cassel type player. I'm sure many would have laughed at the thought of him replacing Bledsoe and having success since he was a 6th round pick who was unheralded coming out of college. I also have heard rumblings about the Pats front office not being huge BB fans. There was a rumor around here last year that BB might be the next Giants coach, but he in fact signed an extension with the Patriots recently. To me, it's not a cut and dry question. Do the Pats still have the same team? Is their offensive line still superb without Brady? I think Bill is more valuable to the equation but I think Brady is damn good.

Just playing devil's advocate, but what has Belichick ever done without Brady? He has a 41-57 record in games that Brady hasn't started, with 1 playoff appearance and 1 career playoff win. Why's everyone so convinced that he'd be the same evil genius with Kyle Boller or David Carr under center?

 

[dutch]

Just playing devil's advocate, but what has Belichick ever done without Brady? He has a 41-57 record in games that Brady hasn't started, with 1 playoff appearance and 1 career playoff win. Why's everyone so convinced that he'd be the same evil genius with Kyle Boller or David Carr under center?

Who's to say it's Boller or Carr under center? Tom Landry and Chuck Noll started their HOF careers with very dismal records but still managed to win multiple Superbowls. Joe Gibbs isn't having a great rebirth as headcoach of the 'skins but he is still regarded as one of the true greats of all time. Shula, Cowher, and Shannahan have all had pronounced lulls in the their w/l records over time. Yet they all found a way to win championships and were/are able to field competitive teams with completely overhauled rosters from one period of time to the next. Thats what a great coach allows a franchise over a great player; extended periods of competitive play with the possibility of great teams over many different years.

 

[DropKick]

Are you kiddin me, you keep a guy that does not touch the field, over a guy who has so much impact on it! This is silly.... Choice is obvious to me that you keep Brady

That's why I asked the question, my man.To me, it's just as clear that Belichick is the guy you wouldn't want to lose.

I will clearly admit that BB sucked as a HC in Cleveland, but that was also a learning experience for him.

I took BB; there is the football intellect; game planning and team management. I don't think the program in Cleveland was committed to or conducive to winning. Can't knock BB for that. At a minimum, offset that with credit for G-Men success.

 

[Torque666]

Are you kiddin me, you keep a guy that does not touch the field, over a guy who has so much impact on it! This is silly.... Choice is obvious to me that you keep Brady

That's why I asked the question, my man.To me, it's just as clear that Belichick is the guy you wouldn't want to lose.

I will clearly admit that BB sucked as a HC in Cleveland, but that was also a learning experience for him.

No way on earth would i take an aging QB over prolly the best coach of all time. The people who say brady are so far out of touch, or dont wanna answer BB, because then they would be admitting they thought Brady was a product of his system. Brady is a product of the system BB controls, IMO you could plug any above avg. QB in there and succede. Its also my opinion that if Brady didnt have 6secs to throw the ball, he would only be considered avg. But like i said thats just my opinion.

/readys fire extinguisher

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I am shocked that Belichick isn't running away with this. You give Grossman to the Pats and they still have a chance at a title. You give Norv Turner to the Pats and they miss the playoffs.

They're both HOF'ers, but coaching is much more important in the NFL than in any other sport.

 

[Raider Nation]

I am shocked that Belichick isn't running away with this. You give Grossman to the Pats and they still have a chance at a title. You give Norv Turner to the Pats and they miss the playoffs.

Is this hyperbole? The Chargers won't miss the playoffs... why would New England?

 

[SSOG]

The people who say brady are so far out of touch, or dont wanna answer BB, because then they would be admitting they thought Brady was a product of his system.

Then why does Brady make significantly more than Belichick, despite there actually being a salary cap which creates negative consequences to spending money on players and no such contrivance for coaches?

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I am shocked that Belichick isn't running away with this. You give Grossman to the Pats and they still have a chance at a title. You give Norv Turner to the Pats and they miss the playoffs.

Is this hyperbole? The Chargers won't miss the playoffs... why would New England?

Yeah, I guess it's hyperbole. It would be hard to miss the playoffs in the AFC East this year. But I do think the Pats would be a MUCH worse team with Brady + Turner than with Grossman + Belichick. EDIT: especially if you're talking about the next 5 years.I have all the respect in the world for Brady, but this is a coach's league.

 

[mcjc4]

I'll give you one example:

Phil Jackson

Genius coach? Well he sure won when he had the talent to win. It's between the lines where games are won and lost.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I'll give you one example:

Phil Jackson

Genius coach? Well he sure won when he had the talent to win. It's between the lines where games are won and lost.

Completely different sport. Coaching is not that important in basketball. There are a relatively small number of scripted plays in basketball, vs. hundreds for any given NFL team. Moreover, with 22 players on the field at any time in football, the matchup possibilities are much more complex, all of which increases the importance of coaching.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Its no secret that Bob Kraft's son, Jonathan Kraft, has NEVER liked Belichick.Bob loves BB, and think he's an awesome coach and loves him coaching the team. Jonathan, however, does not like BBs demeanor or personality.

Allrighty then. I didn't realize it was out in the open. One of my buddies is one of JK college pals.

What role does JK play in the Patriots organization, if any? I've also heard that Mrs. Kraft is not a BB fan.Hopefully these two individuals have squat in terms of real influence, as BB isn't about to win a personality contests with friends and family (nor should he have to).

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

wha???

Could I have made the question any more simple?

it's clear, but it's also rediculous. brady and bb are friends and would never not be able to work together. silly thread with no point.

Then why click on my rEdiculous thread?

But there isnt a reason in the world that the two couldnt coexist. not one. can you name one?

Let's say they can no longer coexist. Whatever the reason is... just use your imagination.

but there isnt one dude. not one in the entire world. not ever. ever. ever.

thehornet covers his ears and screams "loodle loodle loodle I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over again.lol; j/k

 

[lord_helmet]

The people who say brady are so far out of touch, or dont wanna answer BB, because then they would be admitting they thought Brady was a product of his system.

Then why does Brady make significantly more than Belichick, despite there actually being a salary cap which creates negative consequences to spending money on players and no such contrivance for coaches?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Are you kiddin me, you keep a guy that does not touch the field, over a guy who has so much impact on it! This is silly.... Choice is obvious to me that you keep Brady

That's why I asked the question, my man.To me, it's just as clear that Belichick is the guy you wouldn't want to lose.

I will clearly admit that BB sucked as a HC in Cleveland, but that was also a learning experience for him.

IIRC he was also 5-11 or 6-10 his first year in NE and then started 2001 0-2 with Bledsoe playing. Then Brady took over, and yeah you know the rest...I don't see how you can possibly vote for Bellicheck here.

 

[Assani Fisher]

There's a reason why top players make significantly more per season than top coaches. SIGNIFICANTLY more per season. Cost indicates worth. If top coaches were worth as much as a Brady or Manning, then top coaches would sign 10-year, $100 million dollar deals.

And this difference is even magnified by the fact that there is a salary cap on players but not on coaches. If there was no salary cap for either, then the best players would get even more and the difference between them and coaches would be even more magnified.RN, you are way overrating coaching. Look at what Bellicheck has done without Brady, look at Gibbs the past few years, Parcells had a number of bad years, and so on and so on. How often does a Montana/Brady/Manning type player have a horrible season thats way below .500? I think this isn't even close. Honestly I'd probably rather have one year of Brady than Bellicheck for the rest of his coaching career...the difference is that much. In Brady, you're talking about a guy that is on pace to join Payton/Montana/Taylor/Rice/etc. as those with a legit claim to greatest player of all time.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Just playing devil's advocate, but what has Belichick ever done without Brady? He has a 41-57 record in games that Brady hasn't started, with 1 playoff appearance and 1 career playoff win. Why's everyone so convinced that he'd be the same evil genius with Kyle Boller or David Carr under center?

Who's to say it's Boller or Carr under center? Tom Landry and Chuck Noll started their HOF careers with very dismal records but still managed to win multiple Superbowls. Joe Gibbs isn't having a great rebirth as headcoach of the 'skins but he is still regarded as one of the true greats of all time. Shula, Cowher, and Shannahan have all had pronounced lulls in the their w/l records over time. Yet they all found a way to win championships and were/are able to field competitive teams with completely overhauled rosters from one period of time to the next. Thats what a great coach allows a franchise over a great player; extended periods of competitive play with the possibility of great teams over many different years.

I'm not sure I understand you here. You go on and on about bad years that great coaches have had and act as if thats supposed to support the argument for keeping the stud coach over the stud QB. How many times have Brady/Manning/Favre/Young/Montana/Marino even missed the playoffs yet alone had a losing season?