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If Cutler had a O-Line (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigA
- Start date
Football Critic
Footballguy
What would my bathroom look like with a golden toilet? 
(I don't know what the toilet icon means, but it fit, and i liked it)
Neither matters cuz it aint happening. Cutler has neither to work with and wont for quite some time.
(I don't know what the toilet icon means, but it fit, and i liked it)Neither matters cuz it aint happening. Cutler has neither to work with and wont for quite some time.
two_dollars
Footballguy
I think they would be there with Manning '04 and Brady '07.
Max Power
Footballguy
Has anyone timed how long he actually had from snap to sack? He was getting sacked pretty quickly on a few of those.
well let's see.
Mike Shanahan as his head coach/oc: check
number 1 ranked Oline in run blocking: check
number 4 ranked Oline in pass protection: check
Brandon Marshall as an #1 receiver: check
talented arsenal of stokley, royal, scheffler: check
gazillion of random RBs who as a unit averaged 5 ypc: check
result ?
25 tds/18 picks, leading the NFL in red zone interceptions, 86 QB rating.
eh slightly above average, nothing more.
why do people act like Cutler has never had good wideouts and a great oline ?
Mike Shanahan as his head coach/oc: check
number 1 ranked Oline in run blocking: check
number 4 ranked Oline in pass protection: check
Brandon Marshall as an #1 receiver: check
talented arsenal of stokley, royal, scheffler: check
gazillion of random RBs who as a unit averaged 5 ypc: check
result ?
25 tds/18 picks, leading the NFL in red zone interceptions, 86 QB rating.
eh slightly above average, nothing more.
why do people act like Cutler has never had good wideouts and a great oline ?
Max Power
Footballguy
He had a pretty nice year in 2008. Why dont you continue to list the other 25 year old QBs who have thrown for 4500 yds and 25 TDs in a season. The guy was still learning the game, and while talented, this Bears team is not the 2008 Broncos
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
That's a joke. Cutler couldn't put up those kind of numbers 7 on 7 drills.A better comparison would be Jeff George, million dollar arm 10 cent head.
4500 yards and 25 tds dont mean too much if you throw 18 picks and are constantly picked off in the redzone. we are talking about real life qbing here, right ?he was still learning the game ? not really, his average numbers regressed from 2007.look, jon kitna threw for 4000+ yards and threw 25 tds before. Im not saying that Cutler does not have potential, but this is a 'what if' thread, and Im saying that he had everything set up for him in Denver and he didnt do that well, definitely NOT in the GREAT range. He will not have as many weapons or such a good line again in Chicago anytime soon, so instead of playing 'what if', why not evaluate his 2008 season, when he had an elite oline and an elite wideout ?
Pnishthm
Footballguy
Cutler's o-line isn't that bad...the guy holds the ball forever. Don't think it coincidence that most of Martz' teams have lead the league in getting sacked. While most coaches adjust when other teams blitz, Martz still refuses to use extra guys to help out and block. Cutler has to read these blitzes better and get rid of the ball. The problem too is that Martz still has his WRs running their downfield patterns and Cutler still taking a 7 step drop when defenses are brining the house.What would his numbers look like?ortonish?
I thought the same thing. Completely amazed he kept calling those plays. The WRs did nothing but run deep.
Max Power
Footballguy
It was his third year in the NFL. Are you saying he wasn't still learning the game? Give the guy some time to develop. You want to argue that he had a great system around him in 08, and I'll just point you to his great numbers for a guy in his third year in the NFL.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
they'd probably look like they did in denver.
including win/loss stats.
including win/loss stats.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
tough to build a team when u throw away 2 first round picks lol
I seem to recall Shanny getting fired b/c the defense was so bad. Blaming Cutler for the record that year seems offbase.
Football Jones
Footballguy
The problem is mostly the OL, but Cutler needs to accept some coaching. Johnny Knox is an emerging star, but their other WRs leave something to be desired. I realize players can improve, but Hester will never be anything more than a chess piece. He would be best utilized as a package WR & full-time returner.
I'm still bullish on the Bears offense, but they won't realize their potential until they improve the OL. They need to go OL heavy in FA & the 2011 draft.
I'm still bullish on the Bears offense, but they won't realize their potential until they improve the OL. They need to go OL heavy in FA & the 2011 draft.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
of course.cutler always seems to be surrounded by incompetents.
when he hands the ball over to the other team on his own ten it's the defense failing him on the ensuing td, when he 'leads' his team to a .500 record it's his knucklehead coach that gets the axe, when he sits back there making a sandwich and takes 9 sacks in the first half when the team takes 1 in the second half it's his horrible o-line, when he routinely can't see or just outright misses open receivers it's because they all suck.
if only cutler could find a team of pro bowlers to play with....THEN he'd show the world!!!
maybe he should demand a trade.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
Really? The Cutler/Orton debate AGAIN? Really?? Where are these threads when Cutler puts up 300 yards passing?
Talk about
Talk about
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
depends.300 yds, 8 sacks, 3 picks and a loss and they're probably right here at the top of the board.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
geoff8695
Footballguy
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
What are some other ways I can phrase this same question but in a slightly different way?
I want to go start a few threads...
I want to go start a few threads...
those are not that great numbers. good, above average- yes. not great at all unless you're talking about fantasy. leading the nfl in redzone picks by far is not a good thing.and ok, I can accept the notion that he was learning the game, but how many years does he realistically need for you to say that he is no longer learning the game ?I just want a certain standard or a set criteria here. I mean, because otherwise I can say Alex Smith is still learning the game and so on...last year, did he finish learning the game or not ? I understand that he went to a much worse system and an offense, but still ?because to me, it seems like you arbitrarily will wait until his #s improve and then say, "yeah ok hes done learning". Basically, seems like an excuse that one can't do quantitative analysis on.
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
This game really hurt.
It dropped Cutler from Fifth all-time in career passing yards per game to Seventh all-time in career passing yards per game.
He's now behind Tom Brady and Brett Favre by a fraction of a yard.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/lead...er_g_career.htm
Also, I had thought Cutler would pass Don Merideth on the All-time completions list Sunday night, but he's still 4 completions short.
Jay has started 57 games straight. I hope his health permits him to suit up on Sunday. I have a feeling he'll make an imprudent run at it.
It dropped Cutler from Fifth all-time in career passing yards per game to Seventh all-time in career passing yards per game.
He's now behind Tom Brady and Brett Favre by a fraction of a yard.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/lead...er_g_career.htm
Also, I had thought Cutler would pass Don Merideth on the All-time completions list Sunday night, but he's still 4 completions short.
Jay has started 57 games straight. I hope his health permits him to suit up on Sunday. I have a feeling he'll make an imprudent run at it.
If cutler was as good as some seem to think he is, then he would be about as good as orton. In reality, orton is a much better qb. Cutler has all the talent you could want, but he just doesn't get it done. He's not a leader, and doesn't make the guys around him better. Orton has turned Lloyd, gaffney, and royal in to fantasy relevant players, and Thomas isn't far from being there.
As far as this last week, it appeared to me that the sacks were about 50% his fault for holding the ball too long. A better qb probably goes down 3-4 times with that protection.
As far as this last week, it appeared to me that the sacks were about 50% his fault for holding the ball too long. A better qb probably goes down 3-4 times with that protection.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Martz typically has used the TE as a 6th offensive lineman and his backs will chip DE's before running routes. Have you seen any of the Bears games this year? The OL is probably the worst in the league at pass blocking.Cutler's o-line isn't that bad...the guy holds the ball forever. Don't think it coincidence that most of Martz' teams have lead the league in getting sacked. While most coaches adjust when other teams blitz, Martz still refuses to use extra guys to help out and block. Cutler has to read these blitzes better and get rid of the ball. The problem too is that Martz still has his WRs running their downfield patterns and Cutler still taking a 7 step drop when defenses are brining the house.What would his numbers look like?ortonish?
hes doing pretty well here as wellhttp://www.pro-football-reference.com/lead..._int_active.htm
one of the fastest to 66 picks out of active qbs !
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
Todd Marinovich's career statline:104 for 205 for 1345 yards, 8 career passing touchdowns and 9 interceptions for a passer rate of 66.
SSOG
Moderator
Dan MarinoDrew Bledsoe
Neil Lomax
According to DVOA, Jay Cutler played with the second worst defense of the past 15 years. He threw so many INTs because he was constantly trailing because his defense couldn't make any stops. Statistically speaking, all QBs throw INTs at a rate about 3 times higher when they're trailing than they do when they're tied or leading, so with a merely average defense, that 18-INT season might well have been just a 12-INT season.Either way, from a real-life QBing standpoint, Jay Cutler was *EXCEPTIONAL* in 2008. He was playing with a 7th string RB. I don't know if you really comprehend how far down the depth chart that is. Most teams enter the regular season with 3 RBs on the depth chart. Put all three of those RBs on season-ending IR, and then sign three brand new RBs from the dregs that are left on the street after the season has started. Now put all three of those RBs on IR, too, and you'll finally be down to your 7th string RB. In October, Tatum Bell was selling cell phones in a local mall. In November, he was the primary ballcarrier for the Denver Broncos. You know why Denver's running game was so effective despite starting a guy whose biggest claim to fame was stealing Rudi Johnson's luggage? Because opposing defenses were terrified of Jay Cutler and Denver's passing game. Terrified of it. He carried that team on his shoulders in 2008. All of this revisionist history trying to paint his 2008 season as somehow mediocre or embarrassing is nonsense and needs to stop. Jay Cutler in 2008 was exceptional. And he's been pretty freaking exceptional this season, too, Sunday night notwithstanding. All of these efforts to paint Jay Cutler as a mediocre (or, even more ludicrously, below-average) QB need to stop, because they're nonsense. I can't name 10 QBs I'd rather be building my franchise around.
that's a fair point, but he has made some asinine throws he shouldn't have made.I don't think you quite understand. Ive watched 3/4th of denvers games that year because I drafted both marshall and royal, and also had hillis and even darryl jackson. theres plenty of footage available for his picks, and some of them are inexcusable and unexplainable, no matter the score.
thats when I realized cutler was grossly overrated, and a bad brett favre (who is also INSANELY overrated- lol at people who think hes a top 5 QB ever) clone.
the denver oline was ranked #1 run-blocking in 2008 and was top 6 in 2009. not to mention shanny and his zone blocking schemes has always produced good runners.
revisionist history ? I just wasnt around on this board. If you ever were on rotoworld forums, look up some Cutler threads. you're entitled to your opinion, of course. I am a firm believer in quarterbacks who minimize their mistakes. cutler is far from those guys. some people call them game managers, I call them smart quarterbacks. you do not turn the ball over and you're maximizing your chance of winning a game.
oh here are some videos. granted, they are from last season, but they are all TERRIBLE decisions. no one is bringing crazy pressure, no wide receivers run wrong routes, cutler just blatantly screws up.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...Comeback-killer
*throws in triple and almost quadruple coverage. good job mr franchise*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000...4-vs-Bears-2009
*bu-but...Ive seen Mr. Wranglers do these*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...yo-Franklin-INT
*hmm I wonder how this NOSE TACKLE got in the way of my pinpoint pass*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...-DeCoud-2nd-INT
*um...sorry greg, I forgot you're not 10 feet tall*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000...8-vs-Bears-2009
*lets make it interesting and see if the browns linebackers know how to catch a loft pass*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packer...ns-interception
*sorry again greg, I thought you were andre johnson*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/09...ric-Griffin-INT
*I had all day and decided to let all day rack up some points for me in fantasy*
there are dozens of these. if Jay Cutler is a top 10 franchise QB, then I'm finna be a Millionaire.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...Comeback-killer
*throws in triple and almost quadruple coverage. good job mr franchise*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000...4-vs-Bears-2009
*bu-but...Ive seen Mr. Wranglers do these*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...yo-Franklin-INT
*hmm I wonder how this NOSE TACKLE got in the way of my pinpoint pass*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...-DeCoud-2nd-INT
*um...sorry greg, I forgot you're not 10 feet tall*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000...8-vs-Bears-2009
*lets make it interesting and see if the browns linebackers know how to catch a loft pass*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packer...ns-interception
*sorry again greg, I thought you were andre johnson*
http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/09...ric-Griffin-INT
*I had all day and decided to let all day rack up some points for me in fantasy*
there are dozens of these. if Jay Cutler is a top 10 franchise QB, then I'm finna be a Millionaire.
SSOG
Moderator
All QBs have made some asinine throws they shouldn't have made. Just last week I saw Drew Brees throw an underhanded lob at a tightly covered Saint player while he was in the grasp of a tackler in the act of bringing him down behind the line of scrimmage. And who was it that had a left-handed INT last week, too? I forget which QB it was, but I definitely remember a relatively highly-regarded QB throwing a pick with his off-hand. There are plenty of terrible decisions to go around. Hell, Peyton Manning threw 100 INTs in his first 5 years in the league. 100! Jay Cutler would have to throw 34 more INTs in his next 23 games in order to catch up with Peyton Manning's per-game INT rate through 80 games.
Where are you getting those rankings from? And Shanny and his ZBS hasn't always produced good runners. Denver ranked 14th in yards per carry back in 1999 with their 2nd string running back. A large part of Denver's per-play rushing success in 2008 was the Jay Cutler effect. Another large part of it was because Denver was 28th in rushing attempts- teams didn't defend the run too rigorously because Denver rarely ran back then. They just climbed on Jay Cutler's back and let him carry them. And he did carry them. He carried them to an 8-8 record despite sharing the backfield with a cell phone salesman and sharing the sidelines with one of the worst defenses of the last 20 years.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
why state something as fact when it's just your own poor assumption?the fact is, he was trailing so much 'cuz he kept throwing picks.SSOG said:
I notice it's always somebody esle's fault with cutler --- ALWAYS.
when orton was in chicago he was routinely ripped and made fun of when surrounded by the same sorry cast, but when cutler gets here it's everybody else's fault.
I'll give him a tip in case he's reading this --- if your o-line is so horrible, spot the *&%&^$! open receivers and don't hold the ball all ####### day!!!
renesauz
IBL Representative
Not all of them. On a few of those sacks, Cutler had a man wide open short...and refused to check it down.Martz' system brings more sacks, but Cutler is causing some of them. His WR's are NOT bad at all....in fact...I'd say they were at least average (as a group).Hoosier16 said:
Pnishthm
Footballguy
Well since you saw the game did you see the stat they showed where Martz' offenses have led the league in sacks almost every year? Seems to me like HE is the problem...unless of course he just happened to coach on teams that had the worst O-lines in football every year.Voice Of Reason said:Martz typically has used the TE as a 6th offensive lineman and his backs will chip DE's before running routes. Have you seen any of the Bears games this year? The OL is probably the worst in the league at pass blocking.Pnishthm said:Cutler's o-line isn't that bad...the guy holds the ball forever. Don't think it coincidence that most of Martz' teams have lead the league in getting sacked. While most coaches adjust when other teams blitz, Martz still refuses to use extra guys to help out and block. Cutler has to read these blitzes better and get rid of the ball. The problem too is that Martz still has his WRs running their downfield patterns and Cutler still taking a 7 step drop when defenses are brining the house.What would his numbers look like?ortonish?
FUBAR
Footballguy
The guy is still #12 in my leagues behind Peyton, Rivers, Orton, Rodgers, Vick, Brees, Brady, Sanchez, Schaub, Ryan, McNabb. Which of those have worse receivers?
CaptainHook
Footballguy
mcnabb orton rivers for sure. a lot more are borderline.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
You know hidden under your Cutler hatred you were actually making some good points, until this post. Now we know it is fishing...You have to work the lure, reel in a little, jerk, reel a little, then when the fish is on, you snag and reel in as fast as you can.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Orton seems about equal. McNabb has Cooley and Santana. Rivers has Gates. Cutler has nobody of that caliber.
switz
Footballguy
Another excuse...Sanchez is only 23, on pace for 32 TDs and 0 INTs, with a 105 rating. He probably won't throw for 4500 yards, but he also won't have as many attempts.Max Power said:
Heck, JP Losman was pretty close to him on a per attempt basis at age 25. No one thinks he's a superstar in the making, and he was in a far worse situation than Cutler.
switz
Footballguy
I would say McNabb has worse receivers. Orton and Rivers too. And before you knock Olsen, he's a very very good TE, if his QB would just use him. Peyton has Wayne, but Collie and Blair White are no better than Knox or Bennett or Aromashadu. Cutler's WRs really aren't that bad. Tired of hearing excuses for Cutler.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
I'm tired of you ragging on Cutler and Forte. Still salty over the game at Dallas?
