If Jalen Hurts Gets 100+ Rushing Touchdowns = Hall of Fame? (2 Viewers)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

 

[Terpman22]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Can I have YOUR list of all these running QB's that eventually breakdown, that does not include the guys below. I feel its being passed as Gospel that "most running QB's fail b/c injuries/can't transition to pocket QB" but I mean, Can anyone explain what Josh Allen is now? Is he a running QB? Is he a pocket passer? Is he a guy that ya know, a lot of folks seem to forget they gave up on after his first 2 years to only see him pretty much improve every single year since then?



RG3
Cam Newton
Donovan Mcnabb
Michael Vick
Randall Cunningham
McNair
Kaepernick
Russ Wilson
Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young

Hurts has the best OL, best RB, and arguably the best receiving corp in the league.

Your "quarterback" passed for 18 TDs and 5 INTs. Thats laughable.

He ran in 14 TDs.

Thats a RB playing the QB position.

I'm not sure how this contributes to the conversation. I think its pretty obvious you are not a Jalen Hurts fan and this is fine.
You think he can't pass.
You think his rushing touchdowns also don't count.

I still have yet to hear your thoughts on my short list of running QB's and how the fact the sample size is so short its almost impossible to make a guess based on the performance of players of before when in my opinion there might be just as many "running QBs in the league TODAY" than there has been in the history of the league ~ 10 or so QBs.

But if you want to come in here daily and say "Jalen Hurts stinks/hes a running back" thats fine.

You have a "real QB" in Jared Goff and that just makes me laugh.

If somebody makes a point - you dismiss them and call them a hater or say that their comments "make you laugh". This is why nobody likes talking to you. You take things personal. Insane short guy complex. Also - I don't come in here daily. I don't always make negative comments about Hurts. I never mentioned anything about Goff. You just make stuff up and gaslight people.

Grow up dude. Jalen Hurts isnt your buddy, your relative and likely, not your neighbor. Stop fawning over other grown men.

I take things personal, but you go to personal attacks.

Interesting math there.

Geno Smith?

What exactly am I gaslighting here? I'm on the "Goff is Dak/Dak is Goff train" aka the guys that put up great statistics against inferior opponents, but when the lights shine brightest, they fold fast.

Are you just typing out word you don't know the meaning to? Truly. You can ignore me bro, I'm sure some do.

This is a very weird post by you.

 

[need2know]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Can I have YOUR list of all these running QB's that eventually breakdown, that does not include the guys below. I feel its being passed as Gospel that "most running QB's fail b/c injuries/can't transition to pocket QB" but I mean, Can anyone explain what Josh Allen is now? Is he a running QB? Is he a pocket passer? Is he a guy that ya know, a lot of folks seem to forget they gave up on after his first 2 years to only see him pretty much improve every single year since then?



RG3
Cam Newton
Donovan Mcnabb
Michael Vick
Randall Cunningham
McNair
Kaepernick
Russ Wilson
Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young

Hurts has the best OL, best RB, and arguably the best receiving corp in the league.

Your "quarterback" passed for 18 TDs and 5 INTs. Thats laughable.

He ran in 14 TDs.

Thats a RB playing the QB position.

He also rarely played in 4th qtrs or had to come back because they were always leading.
Lots of missing yards and points

 

[BladeRunner]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

 

[Terpman22]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

This stuff is nothing new. Its just interesting in the face of the most recent evidence and everything like

I assume you don't watch Eagles games, but I also assume you DID watch Jalen Hurts in those 2 Super Bowls against the Chiefs.

Edit: My mistake I keep thinking you are a Cowboys fan...but a Packers fan nontheless - we would still have the discussion

\

 

[Gatorade]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

I would say Michael Vick improved at a passer in his later years.

 

[Joe Bryant]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

This stuff is nothing new. Its just interesting in the face of the most recent evidence and everything like

I assume you don't watch Eagles games, but I also assume you DID watch Jalen Hurts in those 2 Super Bowl against the Chiefs.

Also you're a Cowboys fan -care to play your own Devil's Advocate and argue the case why Troy Aikman should "not" be in the Hall of Fame? If you truly believe the criticism of Jalen Hurts and all...

Apologies if this has been discussed already.

Where would your rank Hurts today among NFL QBs on the "real NFL QB" (not fantasy) scale?

 

[Terpman22]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

This stuff is nothing new. Its just interesting in the face of the most recent evidence and everything like

I assume you don't watch Eagles games, but I also assume you DID watch Jalen Hurts in those 2 Super Bowl against the Chiefs.

Also you're a Cowboys fan -care to play your own Devil's Advocate and argue the case why Troy Aikman should "not" be in the Hall of Fame? If you truly believe the criticism of Jalen Hurts and all...

Apologies if this has been discussed already.

Where would your rank Hurts today among NFL QBs on the "real NFL QB" (not fantasy) scale?

Right now I got him 5. I am putting together a composite coaching rankings with actual analysis since the 2024 thread kind of doesn't matter anymore since so much turnover.

I would do a QB one, but so many folks do that would feel redundant

But realistically speaking today, my top 5 is the same as most

Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Hurts/Lamar

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Where would your rank Hurts today among NFL QBs on the "real NFL QB" (not fantasy) scale?

Easily top 8, but a case can be made for top 5.

1. Mahomes
2. Burrow
3. Allen
4. Ljax
5. Hurts?

I might put Herbert ahead of Hurts - he’s more mobile than people give him credit for. Not meaning he’ll run like Ljax, just that he can occasionally scramble for a 1st, isn’t a statue in the pocket, and is capable of short yardage conversions.

I might also put Goff over Hurts because he’s a prototypical pocket passer - but it’s the rushing that elevates Hurts above Goff for me. And ETA to say I do mean “in the NFL” not just FF.

I might also put Stafford over him, but Stafford was kind of up & down last season & I assume we are talking current, not “lifetime achievement” here.

So yeah, I’m comfortable saying he’s the 5th best QB in the NFL.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Hurts/Lamar

In whichever order we’re comfortable with, yes - I suspect that’s the most common list.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Also you're a Cowboys fan

Not that it matters, but I always thought he was a GB fan.

 

[Terpman22]

Also you're a Cowboys fan

Not that it matters, but I always thought he was a GB fan.

Yeah I may have gotten folks teams confused.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I think his completion percentage is high because of a number of things, not just one thing. Yes, he has a great OL. Yes he has great WRs. Yes he has a great RB. But he's also a good passer. Throws a nice catchable ball. He extends plays with his legs. He slows rushes down for fear of him taking off.

I'd take Hurts over every QB in the league apart from the top 4 guys and I'm getting close to downgrading Mahomes out of the top group and putting Hurts in there. Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

So I understand, you think Hurts and Aikman are similar in that regard?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

You have a "real QB" in Jared Goff and that just makes me laugh.

What’s this now?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

If somebody makes a point - you dismiss them and call them a hater or say that their comments "make you laugh". This is why nobody likes talking to you. You take things personal. Insane short guy complex. Also - I don't come in here daily. I don't always make negative comments about Hurts. I never mentioned anything about Goff. You just make stuff up and gaslight people.

Grow up dude. Jalen Hurts isnt your buddy, your relative and likely, not your neighbor. Stop fawning over other grown men.

amen

 

[Terpman22]

You have a "real QB" in Jared Goff and that just makes me laugh.

What’s this now?

Jared Goff makes me laugh, nothing more nothing less. He has put up some good regular season stats, much like your own QB. Look at their career stats, drafted the same class pretty similar.

They also shrink in big moments, but Goff did make it to a championship game and Super Bowl so there is that.

Its just a matter of what do you like more - regular season or post season success?

Nothing against Goff but he has had 2 of the best QB whisperers in the modern era coaching him and he still wilts in big moments. I'd expect a big regression this year with out Ben "I only want explosive plays" Johnson.

 

[Terpman22]

If somebody makes a point - you dismiss them and call them a hater or say that their comments "make you laugh". This is why nobody likes talking to you. You take things personal. Insane short guy complex. Also - I don't come in here daily. I don't always make negative comments about Hurts. I never mentioned anything about Goff. You just make stuff up and gaslight people.

Grow up dude. Jalen Hurts isnt your buddy, your relative and likely, not your neighbor. Stop fawning over other grown men.

amen

The point he made isn't something new though? An exercise in hypotheticals is all I see. This is certainly nothing new when it comes to detractors of Jalen Hurts.

"Put any QB on this roster and they do better" which was a point made by like every talking head from what like week 4 last year?

So what point is to be proven? The Eagles only got "beat beat" by 1 team all last season - the Bucs when the Eagles had a bunch of injuries.

The other 2 Ls were truly last minute things, that ended up having no bearing on the finish of the season.

So the point is what? The Eagles would have gone undefeated with Jared Goff? The Eagles would have started the Super Bowl off to a start better than....40-6?

I'm down to have the discussion, but you guys are really derailing the whole thing by either going after me, the OP (weird) or just throwing out hypotheticals, which we can do until the end of time right.

Only if!!.......

 

[Snotbubbles]

Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

So I understand, you think Hurts and Aikman are similar in that regard?

I think both Jalen Hurts and Troy Aikman did what it takes to win a game on Sunday. If that requires running the ball 40 times, run the ball 40 times. If you have to throw 40 times, throw it. Aikman never put up gaudy numbers but he won games, that's what matters. I don't need Dak Prescott a guy who throws for 4000 yards and 35 TDs and wins 8 games. The one thing Jalen Hurts has done is win games, that's what matters.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

So I understand, you think Hurts and Aikman are similar in that regard?

I think both Jalen Hurts and Troy Aikman did what it takes to win a game on Sunday. If that requires running the ball 40 times, run the ball 40 times. If you have to throw 40 times, throw it. Aikman never put up gaudy numbers but he won games, that's what matters. I don't need Dak Prescott a guy who throws for 4000 yards and 35 TDs and wins 8 games. The one thing Jalen Hurts has done is win games, that's what matters.

Agreed. I see that too. But that's a lot different than saying Aikman's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

 

[Terpman22]

Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

So I understand, you think Hurts and Aikman are similar in that regard?

I think both Jalen Hurts and Troy Aikman did what it takes to win a game on Sunday. If that requires running the ball 40 times, run the ball 40 times. If you have to throw 40 times, throw it. Aikman never put up gaudy numbers but he won games, that's what matters. I don't need Dak Prescott a guy who throws for 4000 yards and 35 TDs and wins 8 games. The one thing Jalen Hurts has done is win games, that's what matters.

Agreed. I see that too. But that's a lot different than saying Aikman's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

What I can say is the same sort of stuff being held against Jalen Hurts is true about Aikman except

Jalen Hurts hands off to the best running back currently in the NFL, while Aikman handed it off to the all time leading rusher
Jalen Hurts is protected by the best Oline in football, Troy Aikman had the best OL in NFL History.

Is it fair to say if "any QB could have played this past year and won with the Eagles"

That goes 10x harder for Troy considering the level of talent THOSE teams had on them.

Is it fair to say "any QB in the top half of the league in the early 90s" would have had the same success as Troy Aikman?

Why is Troy Aikman even in the Hall of Fame? Literally same amount of games played as touchdown passes. And like 20 less picks than INTs.

This is fun

 

[BladeRunner]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

We could just as easily point out the cherry picking and manipulation of stats to make Hurts look better than maybe he really is. I mean, we're LITERALLY in a thread started on the premise that Hurts is already in HOF consideration despite only being in the league for a few years.

Who is moving what here?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

We could just as easily point out the cherry picking and manipulation of stats to make Hurts look better than maybe he really is. I mean, we're LITERALLY in a thread started on the premise that Hurts is already in HOF consideration despite only being in the league for a few years.

Who is moving what here?

I'm pretty dumb, but my understanding of this thread's original purpose is that IF Hurts got to 100 rushing TDs in his career would he make the the HOF. Have I misread the intent of the thread? It wouldn't be the first time, so my apologies to the thread if I am off-base outside of the slap-fights some of you seem to live on.

I don't give a crap about the Iggles or Hurts. But, if he plays well enough to have 100 rushing TDs, he's also going to have a lot of passing stats and probably another ring or two to go along with that.

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

Agreed. And I think that's very reasonable. But that's a strong stance vs he's a great QB and likely HOF'er.

Which as I understand is what's driving a lot of this.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

We could just as easily point out the cherry picking and manipulation of stats to make Hurts look better than maybe he really is. I mean, we're LITERALLY in a thread started on the premise that Hurts is already in HOF consideration despite only being in the league for a few years.

Who is moving what here?

I'm pretty dumb, but my understanding of this thread's original purpose is that IF Hurts got to 100 rushing TDs in his career would he make the the HOF. Have I misread the intent of the thread? It wouldn't be the first time, so my apologies to the thread if I am off-base outside of the slap-fights some of you seem to live on.

I don't give a crap about the Iggles or Hurts. But, if he plays well enough to have 100 rushing TDs, he's also going to have a lot of passing stats and probably another ring or two to go along with that.

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

You got it right. The premise was if Hurts gets 100 rushing TDs. So he needs 45 more. Not an easy task. It will take at least another 4 or 5 years at his current pace.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

Agreed. And I think that's very reasonable. But that's a strong stance vs he's a great QB and likely HOF'er.

Which as I understand is what's driving a lot of this.

I said he has a chance, Joe - not that he's likely. Maybe that's splitting hairs for some, but it's not for me.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Back to my Aikman comparison. He's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. You do what it takes to win.

So I understand, you think Hurts and Aikman are similar in that regard?

I think both Jalen Hurts and Troy Aikman did what it takes to win a game on Sunday. If that requires running the ball 40 times, run the ball 40 times. If you have to throw 40 times, throw it. Aikman never put up gaudy numbers but he won games, that's what matters. I don't need Dak Prescott a guy who throws for 4000 yards and 35 TDs and wins 8 games. The one thing Jalen Hurts has done is win games, that's what matters.

Agreed. I see that too. But that's a lot different than saying Aikman's in the HOF for turning around and handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith. (I'm thinking of a guy like Boomer Esiason who won an MVP, had better career numbers but isn't in the HOF)

ETA: Jalen Hurts can get into the HOF by continuing to win games without having any statistical backing. Up-thread someone posted about guys who won 2 Super Bowls and their HOF chances. But if he continues to win games AND gets to 100 rushing TDs, he's in, IMO.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

Agreed. And I think that's very reasonable. But that's a strong stance vs he's a great QB and likely HOF'er.

Which as I understand is what's driving a lot of this.

I said he has a chance, Joe - not that he's likely. Maybe that's splitting hairs for some, but it's not for me.

Oh I understand and know what you said. I agree with you, I'd phrase it that way too, that he has a chance.

That's not splitting hairs vs "likely HOF'er". That's very different.

Or that he's a really good QB vs a great QB. Big difference.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

If you think being a team leader and being clutch under pressure make a player deserving of the HOF, then Hurts is a stone-cold mortal lock.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

If you think being a team leader and being clutch under pressure make a player deserving of the HOF, then Hurts is a stone-cold mortal lock.

Among many other qualities I listed. Pinpoint accuracy also goes a long way.

But yes, those qualities do help.

 

[Terpman22]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

If you think being a team leader and being clutch under pressure make a player deserving of the HOF, then Hurts is a stone-cold mortal lock.

Among many other qualities I listed. Pinpoint accuracy also goes a long way.

But yes, those qualities do help.

This is why its such an easy comparison. Troy Aikman did NOT come into the league with that, he worked on it and got better and better. He also turned his game up come playoff time

But, was the pinpoint accuracy b/c he was on a Super Team with the greatest offensive line of all time though?

His comp %, YPA, Rating, YPG all go up from Regular Season to Playoffs

Now lets say we look at Troy Aikman after 4 years starting, he has 1 Super Bowl, 1 season passing north of 20 touchdowns.

What would we say other than "win a bunch more of those" could we have to predict Troy Aikman making the Hall of Fame?

With Jalen its "He won 1 and also THIS" with what we are having here.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

If you think being a team leader and being clutch under pressure make a player deserving of the HOF, then Hurts is a stone-cold mortal lock.

Among many other qualities I listed. Pinpoint accuracy also goes a long way.

But yes, those qualities do help.

This is why its such an easy comparison. Troy Aikman did NOT come into the league with that, he worked on it and got better and better. He also turned his game up come playoff time

But, was the pinpoint accuracy b/c he was on a Super Team with the greatest offensive line of all time though?

His comp %, YPA, Rating, YPG all go up from Regular Season to Playoffs

Now lets say we look at Troy Aikman after 4 years starting, he has 1 Super Bowl, 1 season passing north of 20 touchdowns.

What would we say other than "win a bunch more of those" could we have to predict Troy Aikman making the Hall of Fame?

With Jalen its "He won 1 and also THIS" with what we are having here.

Sure, that’s fair. IMO that’s about longevity and upward trajectory.

If he continues to play at a high level for 4-5 years.
If he gets the +45 TD as presumed by the topic.
If he wins another SB (hardest thing on this list)

Then he’s probably a lock. Having 100 RuTD & a ring plus a decade of high level play should be enough.

 

[BladeRunner]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

We could just as easily point out the cherry picking and manipulation of stats to make Hurts look better than maybe he really is. I mean, we're LITERALLY in a thread started on the premise that Hurts is already in HOF consideration despite only being in the league for a few years.

Who is moving what here?

I'm pretty dumb, but my understanding of this thread's original purpose is that IF Hurts got to 100 rushing TDs in his career would he make the the HOF. Have I misread the intent of the thread? It wouldn't be the first time, so my apologies to the thread if I am off-base outside of the slap-fights some of you seem to live on.

I don't give a crap about the Iggles or Hurts. But, if he plays well enough to have 100 rushing TDs, he's also going to have a lot of passing stats and probably another ring or two to go along with that.

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

You got it right. The premise was if Hurts gets 100 rushing TDs. So he needs 45 more. Not an easy task. It will take at least another 4 or 5 years at his current pace.

First, it's way too early to even have this talk and, secondly, we could just insert any player's name into this conversation and it would apply:

"Hey, if <insert player name here> gets 100+ TDs and plays good football for a long time then he's a lock for the HOF"

See how easy that was? It literally applies to most EVERY player in the NFL.

 

[need2know]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

 

[Ray_T]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

Like I said earlier. Passing successfully when you are a threat to run is different than passing when you are not a threat to run.

the skillset is a bit different. thats why a lot of running QB with good completion percentages struggle a bit once they lose some of that mobility and athleticism. you escape the pocket a couple of things happen. you buy your wr more time to get open. and if you play your cards right, a db will leave their man to come and make the tackle on the QB leaving them an open man.

the pocket passer sometimes needs to use anticipation and/or timing patterns to throw their WR open when the coverage is tight. so it is a totally different skillset. so even if you throw at a high completion percentage as a running qb that does not guarantee he will make that transition when he gets older.

 

[BladeRunner]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I would ask for a refund on those rose-colored glasses you bought at the Ad Hominem Brothers cherry picking farm.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

Like I said earlier. Passing successfully when you are a threat to run is different than passing when you are not a threat to run.

the skillset is a bit different. thats why a lot of running QB with good completion percentages struggle a bit once they lose some of that mobility and athleticism. you escape the pocket a couple of things happen. you buy your wr more time to get open. and if you play your cards right, a db will leave their man to come and make the tackle on the QB leaving them an open man.

the pocket passer sometimes needs to use anticipation and/or timing patterns to throw their WR open when the coverage is tight. so it is a totally different skillset. so even if you throw at a high completion percentage as a running qb that does not guarantee he will make that transition when he gets older.

Question: Do you think Lamar Jackson is a good passer?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Hypothetical. Troy Aikman has the exact same career numbers but instead of playing for Dallas he plays for the Cincinnati Bengals. Is he a Hall of Famer? Aikman is in the HOF for winning games. He did that by handing the ball off to Emmitt Smith.

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a life-long Dallas Cowboys hater. It’s in my DNA.

That said, I see these two narratives pop up all the time:
1. Aikman just handed the ball off to Emmitt Smith and that’s why he’s in the HOF

2. Emmitt Smith wasn’t a great RB, he benefitted from the best OL in the league.

I believe both of those narratives, while containing a kernel of truth, are false narratives.

Aikman & Smith benefitted from that OL.
Aikman benefitted from having a great RB & receiving cast.

Aikman had pinpoint accuracy, and was a fiery, vocal leader of the team. He was clutch under pressure, and IMO deserving of HOF regardless of the supporting cast.

Emmitt Smith took me longer to come around on, but he was an incredibly patient runner. He had exceptional vision, strength/power, and balance. His receiving is underrated, and he was one of those dudes that always seemed to get that extra couple yards on a 2nd effort after contact.

As good as the OL was, the way it’s described is as a monolith - when in fact over the years not everyone was healthy all the time, yet there was Emmitt churning out yards year after year.

It pains me to post this, but Emmitt & Aikman are often vastly underrated. They’re both deserving of HOF, in my opinion.

Small sample size and all, but the Cowboys OL looked like garbage for 2 games (both losses) when Emmitt held out. Perhaps it was a symbiotic relationship.

 

[need2know]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

He was awesome. Hes no hurts though

 

[Snotbubbles]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

Like I said earlier. Passing successfully when you are a threat to run is different than passing when you are not a threat to run.

the skillset is a bit different. thats why a lot of running QB with good completion percentages struggle a bit once they lose some of that mobility and athleticism. you escape the pocket a couple of things happen. you buy your wr more time to get open. and if you play your cards right, a db will leave their man to come and make the tackle on the QB leaving them an open man.

the pocket passer sometimes needs to use anticipation and/or timing patterns to throw their WR open when the coverage is tight. so it is a totally different skillset. so even if you throw at a high completion percentage as a running qb that does not guarantee he will make that transition when he gets older.

Which QBs are you referring to when you say "QB with good completion percentages struggle . . ." So far we've had Mike Vick, Donovan McNabb and Cam Newton mentioned. None of those guys qualify. I'm just trying to understand if your position is based on fact or perception.

 

[Deamon]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.

I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.

no I wouldnt compare those guys.

guys like Dilfer are the exception because outside of winning the superbowl, he didnt really light the world on fire statistically. he was just an excellent game manager. the star of that show was the fearsome defense and the run game if my memory is correct. he had a lot of short fields to work with and likely was replaceable in that offense.

so no, not a fair comparison.

Yep - I said about the same. I think we both said integral to the offense, which IMO is key in making that evaluation.

It’s what makes Eli borderline despite having 2 rings. I am on the “Eli beat the Pats dynasty 2x” and was instrumental in doing so. His career stats are good, but I don’t see anyone putting Eli in the same convo as his brother stats-wise.

But Hurts is on another level when it comes to his impact on his team. His rushing extends drives. He can make “all the throws” as they say, and he’s very good at selling PA (not every QB is)

I look at “tush push” as a variation on the QB sneak. I’d give Hurts as much credit for those as I would for any QB who had similar production on the sneak.

And 100 RuTD for a QB along with 1-2 rings and a decade of high level play should be HOF worthy.

The question I often see is “compared to his peers, did he dominate the era in which he played” at various metrics. In that light, he’s a pretty special player.

I disagree. He's doing that NOW because he's young, like dang near every single running QB that ever played the game when they first got in the league. All those running QBs "extend drives" because, well they're RUNNING instead of THROWING. Remember, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah, me too. They light up the league for the first few years with their running but then it all comes home to roost when age or defenses catch up with them. I disagree that Hurts can "make all the throws". I think he "he makes all the throws" simply because DEF are expecting him to run so that leaves WR more open.

It's when the running QB CAN'T run anymore is when the deficiencies really start to show.

for sure.

and if that QB is going to have a longer career. (stress on Longer) they need to at some point transition to be a pocket passer.

the running QB takes far too many hits and his body breaks down. Most of these types go down because they cannot stay healthy. and once the injury train starts, it rarely stops at the NFL level.

some can do it. some cant. others are capable but run into the injury train before they can make the transition. the key is to make that transition before the body breaks down.

Jalen Hurts is already a good passer, he was at 68% completion percentage last year (8th in the league, ahead of guys like Mahomes, Stafford, and Purdy). Off the top of my head, I don't think I can come up with a running QB who was a bad passer in his early years and then transitioned to being a good passer in his later years. Maybe there is an example, I don't know.

His completion percentage is high - with the best OL, the best RB and the best receivers and the threat to run.

Do you think because his completion percentage is higher than Mahomes and Stafford - that hes a better passer than those two? Geno smith and Tua have a higher completion percentage - Does that make them better?

Hurts is a great team player and he is a good fit for your team build. I bet a better passer would have that offense humming.

I also think the other thing the Eagles homers forget is that your completion and passing LOOKS good because you're mostly running. It's a shallow, cherry-picked stat that doesn't take into account the other variables. If I throw 3 passes and all 3 complete that a 100% completion percentage! OMG! Hurt's passing stats are fantastic! Now trying passing 30 - 40 times a game over the course of a season like those other guys and see where you're at. His stats look good because he's not throwing nearly as much as any of those other guys.

I'm not saying Hurts is terrible, but let's be real here.

I think the thing people are missing really here is the moving goalposts of Jalen Hurts' entire career to knock him down and say "he ain't that great"

We could just as easily point out the cherry picking and manipulation of stats to make Hurts look better than maybe he really is. I mean, we're LITERALLY in a thread started on the premise that Hurts is already in HOF consideration despite only being in the league for a few years.

Who is moving what here?

I'm pretty dumb, but my understanding of this thread's original purpose is that IF Hurts got to 100 rushing TDs in his career would he make the the HOF. Have I misread the intent of the thread? It wouldn't be the first time, so my apologies to the thread if I am off-base outside of the slap-fights some of you seem to live on.

I don't give a crap about the Iggles or Hurts. But, if he plays well enough to have 100 rushing TDs, he's also going to have a lot of passing stats and probably another ring or two to go along with that.

My take is that he's a really good QB who has a chance to be a HOFer.

You got it right. The premise was if Hurts gets 100 rushing TDs. So he needs 45 more. Not an easy task. It will take at least another 4 or 5 years at his current pace.

First, it's way too early to even have this talk and, secondly, we could just insert any player's name into this conversation and it would apply:

"Hey, if <insert player name here> gets 100+ TDs and plays good football for a long time then he's a lock for the HOF"

See how easy that was? It literally applies to most EVERY player in the NFL.

The only thing you're missing is that Hurts already has 55 rushing TDs. So at his current pace he'd hit 100 rushing TDs by the time he turns 30.

But Jordan Love is the same age as Hurts but he only has 5 rushing TDs, so at his current pace he'd hit 100 TDs when he turns 102 years old.

Josh Allen is 28 and has 65 rushing TDs, so he has a really good chance of hitting 100.

Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are 27 but they are in the low 30s for rushing TDs. Not sure they have a legitimate shot.

Jayden Daniels had 6 rushing TDs last year so he's going to have to double that output if he wants to sniff 100.

So there is some probability analysis we're doing here to project that Hurts has a real legitimate chance to hit that number, that either you aren't factoring in or you just don't seem to be grasping. The 100 rushing TDs mark really doesn't apply to "most EVERY player in the NFL." It's really just two Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts. Heck, there's probably only a handful of active RBs who have a legitimate shot at hitting 100 rushing TDs.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

 

[need2know]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

Yeah but how many rushing tds does he have

 

[Snotbubbles]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

Yeah but how many rushing tds does he have

Steve Van Buren - 1948
Steve Van Buren - 1949
Norm Van Brocklin - 1960
Nick Foles - 2017
Jalen Hurts - 2024

Someone doesn't know their NFL history.

 

[renesauz]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

Funny...everyone always forgets that Eagles had multiple NFL championships pre _super Bowl...like JUST pre Super Bowl.
I mean, if you wanna count Cowboys rings from the 70s, might as well count Eagles rings from the late 40s to 1960.

I mean, why cut things off at 1971? That's no more arbitrary then cutting things off at 2000, is it? How many NFC championship games have the Cowboys played in this century?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

Funny...everyone always forgets that Eagles had multiple NFL championships pre _super Bowl...like JUST pre Super Bowl.
I mean, if you wanna count Cowboys rings from the 70s, might as well count Eagles rings from the late 40s to 1960.

I mean, why cut things off at 1971? That's no more arbitrary then cutting things off at 2000, is it? How many NFC championship games have the Cowboys played in this century?

Not serious answer:

Oh noooooooow it doesnt matter how old championships are.

Serious answer;

Blame the Skins- they didn’t allow a black player on their team until 1960.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

The dumb hate in here is hurting my eyes

I actually agree with you.
Aikman was way better than he’s getting credit for in here

wrong. way worse.

Well, he has more rings than all of the eagles quarterbacks in history combined so he has that going for him I guess

Funny...everyone always forgets that Eagles had multiple NFL championships pre _super Bowl...like JUST pre Super Bowl.
I mean, if you wanna count Cowboys rings from the 70s, might as well count Eagles rings from the late 40s to 1960.

I mean, why cut things off at 1971? That's no more arbitrary than cutting things off at 2000, is it? How many NFC championship games have the Cowboys played in this century?

I was obviously referring to Super Bowl rings. Goodness