InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
During Pete's time in Seattle they drafted Russ (2013) and Alex McGough(2018). Who were you referring to other than Russ?
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Indefinite Las Vegas Raiders thread - ☠ Mork and Brady searching for a wet paper bag to see if Pete Carroll can still coach his way out of one ☠ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chaka
Footballguy
Bevell apparently interviewed.
Sigh. All the mental gymnastics that we contort through to convince ourselves that Pete Carroll brings the hope of rejuvenating the franchise is a lie.
It's going to be the same tired blueprint that Seattle got tired of and caused guys like Bevell to not stick anywhere.
I'm a perfect world, if all the stars align and the river don't rise maybe we will see some type of West Coast Tomlinesque outcome where we hang out hat on not having a losing record while never actually contending for anything.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
This really exposes why the team has floundered under Mork. He hires names brands because he has no clue how to succeed. The standard and org chart should come from the top. Instead Mork hires name brand to establish standards. And in some cases he ignores the name brand’s weaknesses. Mork gave Gruden complet’s control of the team, including the draft, despite Gruden’s terrible draft history.
Then, because Mork is clueless, when Gruden was forced out he turned to another name brand in McDaniels. Then after that epic failure he was swayed by the players to hire AP. Again, another epic failure and more evidence of Mork’s incompetence. So, of course, Mork turns back to jock-sniffing and hires Brady. Will it be successful? Based on history, very doubtful. But one thing is not debatable: Mork doesn’t know what the hell he is doing. And I give him no brownie points for wanting to win. Every single owner wants to win.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Is it me or does Dillon Gabriel feel like Russell Wilson 2.0? And probably can be grabbed by 3rd or later.
kaso
Footballguy
Did he give himself a nickname starting with "Mr."?
joey
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing. Does he need to be taken in the 2nd or does he drop to our 3rd rounder.
Tau837
Footballguy
Carroll obviously deserves significant credit for his success in Seattle, but he was the beneficiary of one of the greatest 3 consecutive years of drafts in NFL history:
- 2010:
- 1st - LT Okung
- 1st - FS Thomas
- 2nd - WR Tate
- 5th - SS Chancellor
- 2011:
- 1st - G Carpenter
- 4th - LB Wright
- 5th - CB Sherman
- 6th - CB Maxwell
- 7th - LB Smith
- UDFA - WR Baldwin
- UDFA - CB Browner
- 2012:
- 1st - Edge Irvin
- 2nd - LB Wagner
- 3rd - QB Wilson
- 7th - G Sweezy
- UDFA - WR Kearse
Could that happen again for LV? Sure, it could, but it seems very unlikely. Referencing the "tired blueprint," it got tired when that taented core nucleus couldn't be sustained.
Not saying Carroll won't be successful with the Raiders, but I don't think applying a blueprint that worked with that Seattle group is likely to be successful with the Raiders nucleus. On the other hand, Harbaugh was quite successful with the Chargers in 2024 while applying his standard blueprint, so who knows.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I don’t like anything about that guy as an NFL quarterback.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Have you looked at the rest of Pete's drafts as comparison? DK Metcalf was a late 2nd rounder. Tyler Lockett was a 3rd rounder. How much of the success of these players was the result of not unearthing gems, but polishing them?
What's your take on the way he turned around a moribund USC program? What was he the random beneficiary of there? I'm sure you can find something. Go.
Respect to Jim Harbaugh. Great coach. And to Sean Payton. And obviously to the Walrus, despite the refs non-stop sucking on his tusk.
And most definitely to Peter mutherbuckin' Carroll. Have some.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Reports Graham is returning. Seems Pete wanted him back and was able to convince him to return, despite what seemed like a done deal departure.
www.si.com
BREAKING: Raiders On SI Confirms Patrick Graham is Re-Signing with Team
The Las Vegas Raiders will be retaining the services of defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, as Las Vegas Raiders On SI has confirmed. Our Hondo Carpenter mad
Tau837
Footballguy
I sense animosity here for some reason (bolded). I just made an observation that I think is relevant.
For what it's worth, my favorite NFL player ever is Rivers, because he is my favorite NC State player, and I am an alum. That led me to my Chargers fandom. My second favorite player for a while was Wilson, since he was at State for 4 years (after Rivers, obviously) before finishing at Wisconsin. So I followed the Seahawks in some depth for the period while Wilson was there, and I think I have a reasonably informed take about them in that period. I have no informed opinion about Carroll at USC, and I don't know why it matters to this conversation anyway.
Are you really going to deny what I posted? That the Seahawks had an incredible draft run from 2010 to 2012 that largely fueled the success Carroll had? I didn't even say that Carroll had no influence or input into it, and I specifically wrote that he deserves significant credit for his success in Seatlle. I just pointed out that it was an incredible run of drafts that isn't likely to be repeated. I'm not sure why that apparently raised your ire... it doesn't seem controversial IMO.
If you want to take the stance that Carroll and his staff made all those players into what they turned out to be in the NFL, great. Maybe you would be right about that, about "polishing those gems." Personally, I'm skeptical, but reasonable people can disagree reasonably.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Hearts x 1000Reports Graham is returning. Seems Pete wanted him back and was able to convince him to return, despite what seemed like a done deal departure.
BREAKING: Raiders On SI Confirms Patrick Graham is Re-Signing with Team
The Las Vegas Raiders will be retaining the services of defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, as Las Vegas Raiders On SI has confirmed. Our Hondo Carpenter mad
Chaka
Footballguy
How much control did Carroll have over the draft in Seattle?
It is more likely, far more IMO, that John Schneider was, and still is, in control of football operations in Seattle including scouting and running the draft. I am sure Carroll had plenty of input but I doubt he had final say on any draft picks.
Regarding USC: Carroll assembled a great, albeit top heavy, coaching staff but Carroll took serious issue with how much credit Norm Chow was getting for running the offense. It really upset him that many people viewed Chow as essentially the co-HC, or the genius that made the team click (that's how people talked about Chow, pretty openly). That ego bruise led to a split and essentially forced Chow to leave 'SC before the '05 season.
The '05 roster was beyond stacked but before that season Ed Orgeron also left to become HC at Ole Miss and that blow was devastating for recruiting at USC. Coach O was apparently ridiculously good at going into living rooms of top recruits and getting them to buy into the 'SC mystique.
They were still, mostly legit contenders for four more years but Carroll couldn't (or chose not to) keep the momentum going and left.
Carroll is a great motivator and has a strong defensive background but he needs to assemble a strong coaching staff (so does everyone) and, more importantly, let them do their jobs.
He's gotta be Jim Harbaugh* and not believe he's Andy Reid.
* Or is it John Harbaugh? Either is fine but I mean the one in Baltimore.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
I really like Graham and think this is the best move possible for our defense.Reports Graham is returning. Seems Pete wanted him back and was able to convince him to return, despite what seemed like a done deal departure.
BREAKING: Raiders On SI Confirms Patrick Graham is Re-Signing with Team
The Las Vegas Raiders will be retaining the services of defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, as Las Vegas Raiders On SI has confirmed. Our Hondo Carpenter mad
What I like about this even more is that it shows that Carroll isn't stuck in "this is my system" crap which I hate more than anything. I feared he would stick with someone from the Seattle days of Cover 3 base and basically have us start nearly all over again on defense.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
DC solved and exactly how I was hoping. Graham is a good sign not only for the continuity but as a possible indicator that Carroll isn't just going to play the good ol' boys game. Had he brought back Bradley I would have been worried that he was just going to roll back to 2018 but maybe we're truly looking at a fresh start.
Next up is OC and I just pray it's not Bevell. Not even because I don't like the guy, but it would just feel so much like the Getsy hire from last year getting an available retread that available simply because no one else wants them.
Next up is OC and I just pray it's not Bevell. Not even because I don't like the guy, but it would just feel so much like the Getsy hire from last year getting an available retread that available simply because no one else wants them.
Chaka
Footballguy
And if we simply believe that time has made Pete less subservient to his ego I say,...maybe?
I still go back to the last play of the 2014 Super Bowl. Sure, it's ten years ago, which is why I said "maybe", but not giving the ball to Marshawn simply because he wanted Russ to win MVP (or, as some believe, because he didn't want Marshawn to get the MVP) still sits bad with me.
I still go back to the last play of the 2014 Super Bowl. Sure, it's ten years ago, which is why I said "maybe", but not giving the ball to Marshawn simply because he wanted Russ to win MVP (or, as some believe, because he didn't want Marshawn to get the MVP) still sits bad with me.
Chaka
Footballguy
My favorite thing about Pete is he generally installs a culture of meritocracy. If you're the best player for the job, it doesn't matter what draft status or contract size is.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
If he and Marshawn had beef then there is no way Marshawn shows up at the presser, a conspiracy theory put out by an anonymous player is pure trolling and was beyond
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am not a Bevell fan but he is dramatically a much better OC than Getsy.
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not sure I agree with that at all.If he and Marshawn had beef then there is no way Marshawn shows up at the presser, a conspiracy theory put out by an anonymous player is pure trolling and was beyond
Chaka
Footballguy
FTR I am not disparaging the hiring of Pete Carroll. I am actually a huge fan of his. His enthusiasm is infectious and I think the Raiders will immediately be a lot more competitive.
Considering the Raiders landscape of the past 20+ years I think all of us will be thrilled with 3-5 years of Tomlinesque non-losing records and annually competing for wild card spots and one-and-done playoff visits.
If Spytek can truly build the roster then Carroll will get them to be competitive.
Considering the Raiders landscape of the past 20+ years I think all of us will be thrilled with 3-5 years of Tomlinesque non-losing records and annually competing for wild card spots and one-and-done playoff visits.
If Spytek can truly build the roster then Carroll will get them to be competitive.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Feel ya on the hesitation to be even remotely optimistic about anything Raiders. I'm taking the open-mind approach until evidence presents itself. Mork's haircut screams clown, but his actions say (slightly) otherwise. Not his myriad bad front-office picks, but his willingness to try and try again. That and his making chicken salad out of chicken **** when the NFL screwed him out of the Chargers' tenant position at SoFi - holistically viewed, there are plenty of arguments the Raiders ended up MUCH better off than the Chargers, even if half the stadium is colored in other than black every Sunday (more to that below).
As for Sneaky Pete. I look at the other hires this cycle and am thoroughly underwhelmed.
Bruce Johnson can eat a bun-length Caleb Williams hot dog. I'm not convinced the latter isn't a fraud, and if so, the former can choke on Calie's toenail polish. Looking forward to seeing if Bruce can convince Chi Town to dine on some kneecaps for breakfast. Somehow, I doubt it.
Spruce Bruce avoided, how about Lie-ham Cohen in Jaxonville? Talk about dodging a bullet, wow. I can't believe I actually thought that dude might be something. Between the POS way he weaseled out of Tampa to the Dudubrown-vahlllll, homie has shown he's the opposite of a leader of men. Super hard, thank-the-lawd PASS.
Giant pile of kick 'em in the pussies if you ask me, except for Vrabel and Glenn, maybe. Not a coincidence that they're the two defensive coaches besides Press-man Pete... Who BTW, is pressing Raider nation to put up or shut up and show up at the Al Le Giant b/c you know, his team, their team, needs THEM! Hell yeah, Pete. Until further notice...
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Special teams coordinator Tom McMahon also retained.
John Glenn hired to be LB coach who previously coached LB's for Carroll in Seattle.
Pretty much nothing has changed on the official coaching listing for the Raiders other than adding Carroll as HC. Lewis and the entire offensive and defensive staff are still on there. Obviously that will change a lot on the offensive side, at least, when an OC is hired. Mike Caldwell did running coordinator and LB coach last year so he is obviously losing that LB part of his title as Glenn comes in.
John Glenn hired to be LB coach who previously coached LB's for Carroll in Seattle.
Pretty much nothing has changed on the official coaching listing for the Raiders other than adding Carroll as HC. Lewis and the entire offensive and defensive staff are still on there. Obviously that will change a lot on the offensive side, at least, when an OC is hired. Mike Caldwell did running coordinator and LB coach last year so he is obviously losing that LB part of his title as Glenn comes in.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Reportedly from Tony Pauline (no idea who he is and if his reporting is any good) Brady had Vrabel as his first choice for HC. When he took NE job, his next choice was Johnson and when he took the Chicago job his third choice was Coen who then decided on Jax. Finally, they shifted to Carroll.
Chaka
Footballguy
The thing I love about this is that, back in 2001 Carroll was the 3rd or 4th choice for USC too.
#championship
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
I wonder if part of the pitch to Graham was that he would be the heir apparent to take over for Carroll when he is done.
ZADO
Footballguy
The one interesting thing about this request from the Raiders is we have no idea what Lal would have done. Would Lal have spurned the Chargers to rejoin Carroll in Las Vegas? The situation seems bleak in Vegas, so perhaps not, but it is impossible to know.
Either way, unless the Raiders want to elevate Lal all the way to offensive coordinator (which is extremely unlikely), he will be staying in Los Angeles in 2025. And quite frankly, that is the best possible outcome for the Bolts.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Seahawks VP of coaching operations Matt Capurro is leaving the team after 15 years to reunite with Pete Carroll and rejoin the Raiders. Was with Carroll at USC in 2009 and in Seattle from '10-23, and worked for Al Davis in Oakland from '04-08.
per Albert Breer
per Albert Breer
joey
Footballguy
That’s one small step for fans, and one large step for Raiderkind.
(No opinion on the signing. Just couldn’t pass up the chance to make that horrible joke)
Will be interesting for FF who the Raiders draft or sign as their starting RB. Chip's offense is usually run heavy.
ICON211
Footballguy
This may not be a popular thought and I may get ridiculed, but I wouldn't rule out Jeanty at 6.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It is not a popular thought. Jeanty looks fantastic but RB is deep this draft. It would be another classic stupid Raider move to draft a RB at the 6 spot.
Chaka
Footballguy
ISK if I'm that excited but I definitely don't hate the hire.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
Judkins from Ohio State, later would be nice.
If SF doesn’t stick a tender on Jordan Mason and it’s unlikely, Raiders should take a look at him. Very good runner and decent receiver. Pair him with one of the 2nd tier rookie RBs and that would be a nice backfield.
Chaka
Footballguy
So with Kelly and Graham there are two potential in-house successors for Carroll.
Man...#### this! I've been chasing the hopium dragon for 22 years, I'm not going to pretend to myself that this is the staff that's going to make it happen. Instead I'm going to embrace the small venue and Indian casino performances that make up the tail end of every great career.
Man...#### this! I've been chasing the hopium dragon for 22 years, I'm not going to pretend to myself that this is the staff that's going to make it happen. Instead I'm going to embrace the small venue and Indian casino performances that make up the tail end of every great career.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Do you have me on mute?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chip is interesting... totally was not ready or expecting that. I will need to digest it.
Better than Bevell I believe.
Better than Bevell I believe.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I want NOTHING to do with Chip as HC in the future though... I know that. His stops as OC have been pretty much all good though.
LawFitz
Footballguy
In on ND and Ohio St QBs now. Either fits Kelly's RPO and can be late to pair with Justin Fields. Spend #6 on whichever special player falls and then load up on DL/RB with later picks, with this draft deep at both positions. Need some real OGs too, at both meanings of that term.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
This is correct, but you spelled Henderson wrong.
Just bustin' chops
Judkins is a great option too I am just a Hendrson fanboi. OSU homer no doubt but I was all over him as a freshman as well. Huge blocker in all aspects, fantastic contact balance, plenty of speed. Everyone's looking at him getting caught from behind on one play in the NC game and fretting over his speed but go back to the tape - there were plenty of jailbreak long runs he didn't get caught on.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Howard for sure. I see a lot of Big Ben in him and he handled his business. Improved every year and handled the transfer beautifully, coming in and picking it up and running with it (literally) from the get-go. I don't have enough direct info on Riley but wasn't overly impressed with what I did see.
The sneaky one for me is Kyle McCord. All my OSU buddies carry nothing but hate for him, and I do get it for the most part because he was really bad at times, but I never really thought he was a finished product when he was here. Ryan Day has done a terrible job getting QB's ready to step up. He refuses to get young guys in on garbage snaps when they could get valuable reps - Stroud never played behind Fields (and didn't at all get off to a strong start when he finally took over), McCord got no time behind Stroud, and even this year Brown and Sayin got very little play time. This year's a little more forgiveable based on Howard needing more time/reps since he just got here, and there were fewer blowouts/garbage time, but even when he did they were mosly limited to handing the ball off.
But I digress - I think McCord wasn't nearly as well prepared as he should have been and yes, he had a lot of really bad moments - badly missing/underthrowing/throwing behind wide open targets, poor footwork when not under pressure, poor decisions with ball security - those were all real. But a lot of that is about time and reps, and again, Day did a poor job getting him game opportunities his first two years here. I can't speak to what practice looked like, but at some point you have to have full contact reps.
McCord made strong progress after transferring to Syracuse (whose OC I hope OSU hires to replace Kelly). He set the ACC all-time passing record (Deshaun Watson) and led the nation in passing yards. I don't know how much QB mobility Kelly will bring to the NFL, and McCord probably isn't a great fit for a system that calls for it, but I would not at all be opposed to seeing him in S&B.
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