Indigenous Peoples, Native Americans Thread (1 Viewer)

[supermike80]

I wasn't either. Not even close. In fact, when I did find out, AFTER schooling, of some of the atrocities that Native Americans perpetuated between tribes, I was actually a little shocked. In fact I'm still a little shocked by that concept. I was always taught they were good people who were brutalized by Europeans.

I didn't learn until later in life white people were guilty of scalping ... often if not as much/more than natives

Scalping In America

Scalping in America was used as a way to eradicate the Indigenous Peoples of this country, bounties were paid for Indian scalps, but where did it begin?

indiancountrytoday.com

Woah..Are you saying Europeans weren't always nice to the indians? Color me shocked!

 

[djmich]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

 

[Shutout]

I own a cabin which is literally sitting in the middle of the woods in the middle of nowhere on the border of the national forest which is in the county that is home to the fort where the Trail of Tears began. I walk 30 feet from my door and I on their land.

I have seen first-hand the people of the region and their position on this, as actually lived by themselves and their ancestors. Not growing up in this area, I also know what it is like to grow up and be educated on the matter from an "outsider" view, living somewhere hundreds of miles away from being impacted by it on a daily basis as all.

SO, FWIW and my 2 cents, my thoughts on some of the things discussed a lot in this thread.

The history and perspective of this entire dynamic varies WILDLY depending on where you live/lived became award of it in history. The history taught in schools from approved history books does not tell the story to children the way several of the folks in the thread have mentioned in that it leaves out a lot of the "both sides of the story".

While several people have said "I was never taught Indigenous people were a lesser race", it has always been implied heavily in teaching, media, movies, etc. If you ask a native American today who recalls stories form their previous generations, they can talk to you ALL DAY long without even trying to think of it about how countless stories of how their people were considered in need of being civilized and taught and educated, etc...often by force and not offer.

In the same vein, however, they also can recall many stories of warring tribes within their own culture. Most of us grew up in classrooms, learning year over year about teepees and buffalo and people being forced from their land and moved to areas where the game wasn't as plentiful, etc, etc, and that happened. But it is also true we didn't see in the history books as children the chapters devoted to tribes that warred with each other constantly and committed horrible acts upon one another and how those things occurred well before Europeans arrived and had nothing to do with Europeans.

I guess my simpler point is if you want to have a celebration of indigenous people for them and the way they live and lived, that is good. Just realize there is another very different side of the story that goes along with it and that side has very little to do with Europeans and almost no reason to feel compelled to attach Christopher Columbus to it and make a good/bad thing.

 

[Stealthycat]

Woah..Are you saying Europeans weren't always nice to the indians? Color me shocked!

people are not nice to other people in general

 

[Shutout]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

This is a good point. Why would we only point out the negative in something?
Many countries celebrate an Independence day without finding a need to point out that people died, were killed, resources were wasted, plundered, etc, to achieve it.
We celebrate Valentines Day each year without crusading to remind the world that the vast majority of relationships end in failure or how many unexpected/unwanted pregnancies result in the celebration, etc.

We would be better off to not seek the worst in situations or only wrap our comments o fit personal agendas and narratives.

 

[Shutout]

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

This is a good point. Celebrating IP day on this specific day clearly shows that this is not about simply celebrating Indigenous people as it it advertised but is an attempt to run directly oppositional to there being a Columbus day, which is wrong if the intent is as stated and is simply wanting to acknowledge Indigenous people with their own day. Each day can exist, side by side, and be celebrated by the people who wish to celebrate either or both.

As an American, I'd be embarrassed to have CC Day as a national holiday. If people want to celebrate it privately, have at it. But, it should not be a national holiday on par with days like Labor Day, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Juneteenth, and Indigenous Peoples' Day (which are all deserving of nationally recognized holidays).

I suppose that is the beauty of it. "As an American", you should feel confident that you have the right to feel that way without being browbeaten by someone being told you should feel differently.

As an American, I personally enjoy the holiday in what it signifies because, IMO, I feel that had it not been for King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella chartering the explorational voyage (regardless of personal intentions), then I probably wouldn't be an American here today, living in a country that has had profound impact on maintaining free countries all over the planet, and enjoying the personal freedoms that I do. And I would hope that my viewpoint would be accepted and not browbeaten either.

 

[Zow]

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

This is a good point. Celebrating IP day on this specific day clearly shows that this is not about simply celebrating Indigenous people as it it advertised but is an attempt to run directly oppositional to there being a Columbus day, which is wrong if the intent is as stated and is simply wanting to acknowledge Indigenous people with their own day. Each day can exist, side by side, and be celebrated by the people who wish to celebrate either or both.

As an American, I'd be embarrassed to have CC Day as a national holiday. If people want to celebrate it privately, have at it. But, it should not be a national holiday on par with days like Labor Day, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Juneteenth, and Indigenous Peoples' Day (which are all deserving of nationally recognized holidays).

I suppose that is the beauty of it. "As an American", you should feel confident that you hav ether right to feel that way without being browbeaten by someone being told you should feel differently.

I'm not sure if we're on the same page here or not, but I consider something being formally recognized as a national holiday as being "browbeaten to feel a certain way." And, since I don't find it rational to feel great about Columbus, he should not have a national holiday.*


*Again, if a bunch of people want to informally/privately celebrate him, they can have at it and I can look upon them with a furrowed brow but that's the end of it.

 

[Zow]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

I addressed this earlier in the thread, but the distinction here is between setting a day for an entire immutable group of people who were, objectively treated poorly and need some recognition versus celebrating one man. As to the former, yes some Native Americans committed atrocities against others but that's a subset of this group. In contrast, the one man discussed in the latter point did commit some significant atrocities against others that is tied to him and his legacy. Accordingly, I view the analysis differently and find merit in not nationally recognizing CC because of what he did.

 

[Zow]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

This is a good point. Why would we only point out the negative in something?
Many countries celebrate an Independence day without finding a need to point out that people died, were killed, resources were wasted, plundered, etc, to achieve it.
We celebrate Valentines Day each year without crusading to remind the world that the vast majority of relationships end in failure or how many unexpected/unwanted pregnancies result in the celebration, etc.

We would be better off to not seek the worst in situations or only wrap our comments o fit personal agendas and narratives.

But we also would be better off not nationally recognizing a man who committed significant atrocities against an immutable group of people just because it fit some personal agenda and narrative.

My point here is that the government should stay away from formally/nationally recognizing this man because of the totality of what he did.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

 

[the moops]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

Beat him by 500 years too.

Columbus is the winner of the original participation trophy

 

[Zow]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

 

[djmich]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

This is a good point. Why would we only point out the negative in something?
Many countries celebrate an Independence day without finding a need to point out that people died, were killed, resources were wasted, plundered, etc, to achieve it.
We celebrate Valentines Day each year without crusading to remind the world that the vast majority of relationships end in failure or how many unexpected/unwanted pregnancies result in the celebration, etc.

We would be better off to not seek the worst in situations or only wrap our comments o fit personal agendas and narratives.

But we also would be better off not nationally recognizing a man who committed significant atrocities against an immutable group of people just because it fit some personal agenda and narrative.

My point here is that the government should stay away from formally/nationally recognizing this man because of the totality of what he did.

I understand this, but the totality of what he did and what the holiday represents was discovery of the country on behalf of the civilization that now occupies it…me and you. You’re an occupier and it seems you’re not leaving despite the terrible circumstances that allow you this privilege.

That’s a pretty big deal. Columbus was a doosh, as were the large majority of people across the globe. We should all understand that as well. We can have this same argument with nearly every historical figure in American history, it’s just a matter of “how bad”. Their acts were monumentally instrumental to who we are today, often achieved ruthlessly, I think we should objectively understand that and their totality.

I have no special affinity for Columbus and it’s not something that I would fight to start a day for, the bigger question for me is the active desire to just stop celebrating important things because the people at the time we’re not who we like today.

 

[djmich]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

This is fair…I never really thought about it as celebrating Columbus, it was celebrating the discovery. Yah he gets the credit cause he was the one, but there aren’t many Columbus fanboys.

 

[Zow]

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the
White
House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Thanks!! Happy Columbus Day to you too!

Or it is Leif Erikson day? I get so confused.

Happy Indigenous Peoples Day!

The US marks Indigenous Peoples' Day on October 10, to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty, according to the White House

Here is topic trending on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IndigenousPeoplesDay&src=typed_query

Saw a documentary on the feared Comanche Tribe. Before Columbus the Comanches were the most brutal and violent of all Indian tribes, ruthless in killing and torturing other Indian Tribes who they encountered. Men, women, babies were skinned alive, burnt alive, raped and tortured in front of their families beyond human limits. Whoever survived were then slaughtered like cattle. A frightening horrific time in history for other Indians.

Then why are we celebrating them? Also, native Americans also took slaves from other tribes too. Not cool at all under today's lens. Shouldn't indigenous people's day be cancelled because of this?

History should be scrubbed based upon the standards of today.

A deep dive into history before CC would not be pretty. Given today's climate you are probably correct.

They should just eliminate the day completely.

With that logic, Black History Month should also be eliminated.

Why..did they slaughter and torture each other too?

Fun Fact:

African nations have been known to commit atrocities over the centuries too.

So Columbus was the only bad guy here?

Not defending CC but he came to a future America where violence and atrocities were already a way of life, he just carried on business as usual. That was the way of the "world" in that era. Nobody knew of a different life.

Which is completely irrelevant as to why Indigenous Peoples' Day is celebrated, which is "to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty."

So why is it celebrated on Christopher Columbus Day? Shouldn't they each have their own day?

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Not to be repetitive but Indian Tribes did the same thing to each other and worse. Burning people alive, skinning people alive, killing babies in front of their families, raping women in front of their families, cutting off other tribe men members genitals.

These atrocities were going on well before Columbus arrived. Should they be celebrated? Or is it OK because they were doing it to each other?

Indigenous Peoples day is not a celebration of atrocities. Please. As the WH noted: " (It is) to honor the resilience and contributions of Indigenous populations as well as their inherent sovereignty"

Indigenous people committed atrocities. But according to you the celebration of indigenous people day is not a celebration of atrocities.

Columbus committed atrocities. Why are you making Columbus Day about the celebration of atrocities. Was the purpose of Columbus Day to ever celebrate people’s hands being cut off?

This is a good point. Why would we only point out the negative in something?
Many countries celebrate an Independence day without finding a need to point out that people died, were killed, resources were wasted, plundered, etc, to achieve it.
We celebrate Valentines Day each year without crusading to remind the world that the vast majority of relationships end in failure or how many unexpected/unwanted pregnancies result in the celebration, etc.

We would be better off to not seek the worst in situations or only wrap our comments o fit personal agendas and narratives.

But we also would be better off not nationally recognizing a man who committed significant atrocities against an immutable group of people just because it fit some personal agenda and narrative.

My point here is that the government should stay away from formally/nationally recognizing this man because of the totality of what he did.

I understand this, but the totality of what he did and what the holiday represents was discovery of the country on behalf of the civilization that now occupies it…me and you. You’re an occupier and it seems you’re not leaving despite the terrible circumstances that allow you this privilege.

That’s a pretty big deal. Columbus was a doosh, as were the large majority of people across the globe. We should all understand that as well. We can have this same argument with nearly every historical figure in American history, it’s just a matter of “how bad”. Their acts were monumentally instrumental to who we are today, often achieved ruthlessly, I think we should objectively understand that and their totality.

I have no special affinity for Columbus and it’s not something that I would fight to start a day for, the bigger question for me is the active desire to just stop celebrating important things because the people at the time we’re not who we like today.

See my above post. I don't think we're entirely far off on our analysis, but I'll point to your statement in bold as what I view as the glaring nuance here. CC Day doesn't recognize a "thing," it recognizes a man. And, when that man is a doosh (to borrow a term of yours that I agree with), and was a particularly big doosh to an immutable group of other Americans, we should not celebrate him with a nationally recognized day in his name.

 

[Zow]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

This is fair…I never really thought about it as celebrating Columbus, it was celebrating the discovery. Yah he gets the credit cause he was the one, but there aren’t many Columbus fanboys.

It's ****ing called "Columbus Day."

 

[Summer Wheat]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

This is fair…I never really thought about it as celebrating Columbus, it was celebrating the discovery. Yah he gets the credit cause he was the one, but there aren’t many Columbus fanboys.

It's ****ing called "Christopher Columbus Day."

OK..Christopher Columbus Day it is.

 

[Zow]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

This is fair…I never really thought about it as celebrating Columbus, it was celebrating the discovery. Yah he gets the credit cause he was the one, but there aren’t many Columbus fanboys.

It's ****ing called "Christopher Columbus Day."

OK..Christopher Columbus Day it is.

wat

 

[djmich]

Probably should be Leif Erikson Day since he beat CC to America.

No, because Erikson didn't spark significant colonization to America.

On its face, since CC arguably is the catalyst to the colonization of a significant percent of Americans' ancestors, it makes reasonable sense to nationally recognize the event. However, when one considers CC's glaring atrocities and the likely still real emotional impact of celebrating him with a nationally recognized day, than the only rational response as I see it is to find the competing interests counterbalance and eliminate it as a national holiday.

If unclear, the nuance to my argument is that CC Day specifically celebrates a man. I recognize the point of what his "discovery"* did for the country and that it makes sense to recognize it, so perhaps a "Discovery Day" or some such where it's not the man that is celebrated makes more sense.

*Arguably his achievement was getting totally lost looking for spices, but that's a whole other discussion not entirely relevant for this debate. For this debate we'll assume arguendo that CC made a historic achievement.

This is fair…I never really thought about it as celebrating Columbus, it was celebrating the discovery. Yah he gets the credit cause he was the one, but there aren’t many Columbus fanboys.

It's ****ing called "Columbus Day."

Lol I know I know, but celebrating “The day someone discovered the land our society is blessed to live on” day sounds really dumb.

And yah know what…any way you slice it that day marks an atrocious period for native Americans.

It’s why we celebrate indigenous peoples day on this day and not something like what I reference above.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I mean, sure, maybe we don't know what particular tribes were the most ruthless, but we all grew up learning that native americans were a lesser race and it was the great Christopher Columbus who nobly came to this country and founded the new world and all the glories.

@the moops, where in the world were you taught that they "were a lesser race"?

I'm old and I grew up learning the Native Americans saved the Pilgrims by helping them live through the winter. That could have been a misrepresentation or legend I guess. But there was never anything remotely like being taught they were a "lesser race".

Where exactly were you taught that?

Our history shows that indigenous peoples were in fact treated as a lesser race and our history books are littered with stories perpetuating that. Sure, we heard stories of pilgrims and native Americans, but that was just one story out of thousands. Many of the others would describe natives as savages and barbaric, while expressing no such negative descriptors to the white settlers. The US government created hundreds of American Indian boarding schools with the express intent to civilize the Indian race.

We don't have to dig too deep or go back too far in history to find countless examples of the theory that white European settlers were a superior being to the natives who inhabited this land mass

I get what you are driving at. I don't think you mean "taught" as in your 3rd grade teacher was saying NAs are lesser people, you are talking about how they were represented in books, media, etc. I feel like largely they wre savages or a token wise spirit guide.

Growing up, I knew they got a crap deal, but on the flip side it wasn't until I was in college+ where I encountered many positives about what was wiped out in the process- for example several of the tribes positive views and treatment of women, how diverse and populus America was before Columbus, and how the Nations interacted with each other.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I also thought part of the issue with the day was that Columbus we were celebrating a man with a day who didn't set foot in the US and celebrating his "discovery" was ignoring the millions of people already here.

 

[Zow]

I also thought part of the issue with the day was that Columbus we were celebrating a man with a day who didn't set foot in the US and celebrating his "discovery" was ignoring the millions of people already here.

That's a fair perspective, too. It's just not the perspective/factor I consider when evaluating whether it should be a day. Put differently, I conclude it shouldn't be without even getting to the merits of whether his "discovery" is worth celebrating.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I also thought part of the issue with the day was that Columbus we were celebrating a man with a day who didn't set foot in the US and celebrating his "discovery" was ignoring the millions of people already here.

That's a fair perspective, too. It's just not the perspective/factor I consider when evaluating whether it should be a day. Put differently, I conclude it shouldn't be without even getting to the merits of whether his "discovery" is worth celebrating.

I guess I was the opposite- I thought the day was dumb for this reason and learned later what a raging *** he was.

 

[parasaurolophus]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

 

[squistion]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

 

[Summer Wheat]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Sad thing is most of the population does not even know what the word Indigenous means. A guy I work with thought it means "Industrious" people

 

[BladeRunner]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Other than the fact that Indigenous people also were brutal and kept slaves too? I mean, time to cancel. Again, standards YOU and YOUR SIDE have set, not ours.

I don't know why you focus on the negative of CC and the founding of America but only the positives of Indiginous People. I real look at these people and turns out they were just as brutal and slave owners to boot.

 

[Summer Wheat]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Other than the fact that Indigenous people also were brutal and kept slaves too? I mean, time to cancel. Again, standards YOU and YOUR SIDE have set, not ours.

I don't know why you focus on the negative of CC and the founding of America but only the positives of Indiginous People. I real look at these people and turns out they were just as brutal and slave owners to boot.

Seems like the bottom line is both were brutal and committed atrocities, and both added something to society in the long run.

 

[parasaurolophus]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Seems like our existence is a pretty damn good argument.

I mean I guess calling it indigenous peoples day is better than "Sorry we took all your land, we aren't giving it back, but here is a day"

Because that is what every person pretending to care about said day actually means.

 

[BladeRunner]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Seems like our existence is a pretty damn good argument.

I mean I guess calling it indigenous peoples day is better than "Sorry we took all your land, we aren't giving it back, but here is a day"

Because that is what every person pretending to care about said day actually means.

Never underestimate the power of the Signaling of the Virtues.

 

[squistion]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Sad thing is most of the population does not even know what the word Indigenous means. A guy I work with thought it means "Industrious" people

A guy I work with thought it means "Industrious" people

Indeed, there is no doubt in my mind that this is true.

 

[Zow]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

No, they're not. We can acknowledge what he did in totality, not think anything should be "given back," and simply say he shouldn't have a nationally recognized holiday.

 

[BladeRunner]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

No, they're not. We can acknowledge what he did in totality, not think anything should be "given back," and simply say he shouldn't have a nationally recognized holiday.

Did CC do ANY good things?

I'm still trying to understand why CC negatives are the criteria here but Indigenous People - who also had some major negatives and have done some of the things CC had done - are only being viewed for their positives.

 

[ChicoCat]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

 

[Zow]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

No, they're not. We can acknowledge what he did in totality, not think anything should be "given back," and simply say he shouldn't have a nationally recognized holiday.

Did CC do ANY good things?

I'm still trying to understand why CC negatives are the criteria here but Indigenous People - who also had some major negatives and have done some of the things CC had done - are only being viewed for their positives.

Respectfully, I have like 5 posts on this very issue in this thread explaining this from my perspective.

 

[BladeRunner]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

Wait...wut? That's an odd take.

 

[parasaurolophus]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

I am sure that is the most common argument used by statue topplers.

 

[ChicoCat]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

Wait...wut? That's an odd take.

This is the United States of America. An Italian sailing for the Spanish "found" a place that was already found by millions and had already been "found" by Europeans before. He "found" it almost 300 years before this country was formed. It seems kind of silly to have statues and a holiday for the guy regardless of his mistreatment (of which the criticism for that is bit overblown) of the indigenous people. It's my understanding he never even found North America.

 

[ChicoCat]

And if it's seen more as a celebration of Italian American heritage.... find an actual Italian American to pipe up over him.

 

[ChicoCat]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

I am sure that is the most common argument used by statue topplers.

I would have thought that they didn't like the idea that such a genocidal monster (In their eyes) is being celebrated.

 

[BladeRunner]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

I don't really have a dog in the fight in regards to the whole "atrocities towards Natives" angle......but Christopher Columbus isn't even American. No need to celebrate some foreign dude like that in this country.

Wait...wut? That's an odd take.

This is the United States of America. An Italian sailing for the Spanish "found" a place that was already found by millions and had already been "found" by Europeans before. He "found" it almost 300 years before this country was formed. It seems kind of silly to have statues and a holiday for the guy regardless of his mistreatment (of which the criticism for that is bit overblown) of the indigenous people. It's my understanding he never even found North America.

Interesting take. Thanks.

 

[Da Guru]

No, critics of Columbus Day call it a celebration of false discovery, genocide and colonization. Plus, Columbus' treatment of indigenous people he encountered was brutal, horrific and appalling (like chopping off hands for not meeting a gold quota)) and certainly not deserving of being honored with a holiday.

Critics of Columbus Day are pretty much ignorant hypocrites.

Not a one would give back everything they have.

And yes, unless you are willing to make that sacrifice you are a hypocrite.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Without all that genocide and colonization most of us don't exist.

Good for you! What a compelling argument not to have an Indigenous Peoples Day.

Other than the fact that Indigenous people also were brutal and kept slaves too? I mean, time to cancel. Again, standards YOU and YOUR SIDE have set, not ours.

I don't know why you focus on the negative of CC and the founding of America but only the positives of Indiginous People. I real look at these people and turns out they were just as brutal and slave owners to boot.

Seems like the bottom line is both were brutal and committed atrocities, and both added something to society in the long run.

And both still have their days. Lets move on

 

[Joe Bryant]

I get what you are driving at. I don't think you mean "taught" as in your 3rd grade teacher was saying NAs are lesser people, you are talking about how they were represented in books, media, etc. I feel like largely they wre savages or a token wise spirit guide.

Growing up, I knew they got a crap deal, but on the flip side it wasn't until I was in college+ where I encountered many positives about what was wiped out in the process- for example several of the tribes positive views and treatment of women, how diverse and populus America was before Columbus, and how the Nations interacted with each other.

Not really. At least for me. I think of "taught" as what I was taught in school.

But even outside of school I wasn't taught anything like they were a "lesser race". And to assume "we all were taught they were a lesser race" seems gross.

At least for anyone that wasn't being taught things in the 1930's. I know we're old here but I don't think many are that old.