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Is Cousins Officially Clutch? (1 Viewer)

Is Kirk Cousins a Clutch QB?

  • Yes he is.

    Votes: 16 19.0%

  • No he isn’t.

    Votes: 50 59.5%

  • Not yet, but he’s becoming more clutch and I’m willing to consider it

    Votes: 16 19.0%

  • I had my opinion on Cousins cemented 4 years ago and no amount of new data can change my mind.

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Total voters
    84
mr roboto

mr roboto

Footballguy
Kirk Cousins has 8 4th Q comebacks this season. That currently ties Matthew Stafford for the most in a single season in NFL history. If he does it one more time, he will be the single season record holder.

He led the single largest comeback in NFL history against the Indianapolis Colts last week. The team was down 33 to nothing and he threw for over 400 yards and four touchdowns in the second half and overtime.

He is leading the first team in NFL history to win 11 one-score games, and they have yet to lose a single one score game. Their three losses have largely been blowouts. There are a couple other teams who have won 10 1-score games in a single season but nobody has ever won 11.

Cousins has been widely criticized for being an over paid slightly-above-average quarterback, and that may still be true, but is it possible to develop the clutch gene in your mid 30s as a quarterback in the NFL?
 
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He likely never was unclutch, just probably had a psychological thing about primetime games once that ball got rolling.
 
That hockenson guy is pretty good too.

Cousins has proven to be a perfect cheap 2nd QB in my SF league. Houshmazilli!!!
 
Hot take: Clutch doesn't really exist in a team sport.

Its all just a series of constants and variables, and especially in football, more than any other sport, more about the team (both the player's and opponent's) than anything else.

The only one of the major 4 sports I'd argue a player can truly be clutch is baseball, because that is essentially a 1-1 sport. Otherwise, it's something more like Golf.

If the question is: Is Cousins a good QB? The answer is yes, and he has been most of his career, and in his entire run on the Vikings. The funny thing is, he's actually having his worst season as a Viking, but the team around him is finally picking up the slack, which is probably a credit to O'Connell.

Take any stat, Completion %, yards per attempt, passer rating, PFF grade, QBR, sacks taken (which is a QB stat, not an OL stat), TD-INT ratio, all of these are his worst as a Viking, but the winning % is the best. Cousins is the same B- QB he's always been in my opinion. The variables (luck perhaps) have just been on his side this year.
 
As a Hock/JJ shareholder in redraft he’s likely single handedly propelled me to the LCG for the 1st time in 9 years.

And in my only elimination game this year, on the heels of a 10-game win streak at 13-2

It’s not over, but we both have 5 left. I have a 60 point lead with a QB, RB, K, DL & LB left. My opponent has a WR, DL, LB & 2 DBs and it’s not performance scoring. So yeah. Pretty close to over.

Clutch AF.
:pickle:
 
He's 34 years old
In 11 seasons nobody has been able to definitively label him clutch
I think by now we might know if Kirk were clutch
How is his Playoff record?
 
travdogg said:
Hot take: Clutch doesn't really exist in a team sport.

Its all just a series of constants and variables, and especially in football, more than any other sport, more about the team (both the player's and opponent's) than anything else.

The only one of the major 4 sports I'd argue a player can truly be clutch is baseball, because that is essentially a 1-1 sport. Otherwise, it's something more like Golf.

If the question is: Is Cousins a good QB? The answer is yes, and he has been most of his career, and in his entire run on the Vikings. The funny thing is, he's actually having his worst season as a Viking, but the team around him is finally picking up the slack, which is probably a credit to O'Connell.

Take any stat, Completion %, yards per attempt, passer rating, PFF grade, QBR, sacks taken (which is a QB stat, not an OL stat), TD-INT ratio, all of these are his worst as a Viking, but the winning % is the best. Cousins is the same B- QB he's always been in my opinion. The variables (luck perhaps) have just been on his side this year.
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This is a good take. Cousins is not a great QB, and he is not an average QB. He is a good QB, probably on the same level as guys like Carr and Prescott. Not QBs who can lift up a team by themselves (in the team sense), but one who can certainly be A reason why you are winning a lot of games, just rarely THE main reason.
 
Ghost Rider said:
travdogg said:
Hot take: Clutch doesn't really exist in a team sport.

Its all just a series of constants and variables, and especially in football, more than any other sport, more about the team (both the player's and opponent's) than anything else.

The only one of the major 4 sports I'd argue a player can truly be clutch is baseball, because that is essentially a 1-1 sport. Otherwise, it's something more like Golf.

If the question is: Is Cousins a good QB? The answer is yes, and he has been most of his career, and in his entire run on the Vikings. The funny thing is, he's actually having his worst season as a Viking, but the team around him is finally picking up the slack, which is probably a credit to O'Connell.

Take any stat, Completion %, yards per attempt, passer rating, PFF grade, QBR, sacks taken (which is a QB stat, not an OL stat), TD-INT ratio, all of these are his worst as a Viking, but the winning % is the best. Cousins is the same B- QB he's always been in my opinion. The variables (luck perhaps) have just been on his side this year.
Click to expand...
This is a good take. Cousins is not a great QB, and he is not an average QB. He is a good QB, probably on the same level as guys like Carr and Prescott. Not QBs who can lift up a team by themselves (in the team sense), but one who can certainly be A reason why you are winning a lot of games, just rarely THE main reason.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've always felt Cousins=Dak plus or minus a little mobility. Nitpicking a little, but I don't think Carr is on that level. I think he's more in the adequate starter who absolutely needs top talent surrounding him, like a Jimmy G.
 
travdogg said:
Ghost Rider said:
travdogg said:
Hot take: Clutch doesn't really exist in a team sport.

Its all just a series of constants and variables, and especially in football, more than any other sport, more about the team (both the player's and opponent's) than anything else.

The only one of the major 4 sports I'd argue a player can truly be clutch is baseball, because that is essentially a 1-1 sport. Otherwise, it's something more like Golf.

If the question is: Is Cousins a good QB? The answer is yes, and he has been most of his career, and in his entire run on the Vikings. The funny thing is, he's actually having his worst season as a Viking, but the team around him is finally picking up the slack, which is probably a credit to O'Connell.

Take any stat, Completion %, yards per attempt, passer rating, PFF grade, QBR, sacks taken (which is a QB stat, not an OL stat), TD-INT ratio, all of these are his worst as a Viking, but the winning % is the best. Cousins is the same B- QB he's always been in my opinion. The variables (luck perhaps) have just been on his side this year.
Click to expand...
This is a good take. Cousins is not a great QB, and he is not an average QB. He is a good QB, probably on the same level as guys like Carr and Prescott. Not QBs who can lift up a team by themselves (in the team sense), but one who can certainly be A reason why you are winning a lot of games, just rarely THE main reason.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've always felt Cousins=Dak plus or minus a little mobility. Nitpicking a little, but I don't think Carr is on that level. I think he's more in the adequate starter who absolutely needs top talent surrounding him, like a Jimmy G.
Click to expand...
I get that, although I do think Carr is good. He appears to have regressed this year, but I blame that on the doofus head coach in Vegas. If the rumors are true and Vegas looks to move on from Carr after this season, which seems crazy to me, I suspect there will be a line of teams ready to sign or trade for him.
 
He’s a good player- he could win a Super Bowl with all the right pieces like purdy. Imagine Vikings defense with 49ers style talent. The offense is just as loaded
 
serious question: If the Packers win today, can they flex the Packers/Minny game next week to 8:30 and move the Ram/Charger game to 4:00? I’m not sure if they would adjust something like this a week out, but both teams would have something to play for.
 
Here in Minnesota much of the talk is surrounding the fact that Kevin O’Connell is actually encouraging him to throw the ball down the field and take risks.

On third and long historically in his career, he will take the safe checkdown pass and punt vs thrown past the sticks in tight coverage.

He’s never felt comfortable letting it rip. Stafford led the league in INTs last year w/KOC as the OC and look where to explosive plays got them.

KOC is unlocking Kirk’s mentality. Under Zimmer it was ‘don’t duck this up’ mentality. He went through OCs like dirty napkins.

This is peak Cousins. He’s a weird dude (always critical of himself, not a rah-rah fist pump like mahommes, Allen etc) he needs the permission from his coach to let it fly and it’s paying off.
 
travdogg said:
Hot take: Clutch doesn't really exist in a team sport.

Its all just a series of constants and variables, and especially in football, more than any other sport, more about the team (both the player's and opponent's) than anything else.

The only one of the major 4 sports I'd argue a player can truly be clutch is baseball, because that is essentially a 1-1 sport. Otherwise, it's something more like Golf.

If the question is: Is Cousins a good QB? The answer is yes, and he has been most of his career, and in his entire run on the Vikings. The funny thing is, he's actually having his worst season as a Viking, but the team around him is finally picking up the slack, which is probably a credit to O'Connell.

Take any stat, Completion %, yards per attempt, passer rating, PFF grade, QBR, sacks taken (which is a QB stat, not an OL stat), TD-INT ratio, all of these are his worst as a Viking, but the winning % is the best. Cousins is the same B- QB he's always been in my opinion. The variables (luck perhaps) have just been on his side this year.
Click to expand...

mr roboto said:
Here in Minnesota much of the talk is surrounding the fact that Kevin O’Connell is actually encouraging him to throw the ball down the field and take risks.

On third and long historically in his career, he will take the safe checkdown pass and punt vs thrown past the sticks in tight coverage.

He’s never felt comfortable letting it rip. Stafford led the league in INTs last year w/KOC as the OC and look where to explosive plays got them.

KOC is unlocking Kirk’s mentality. Under Zimmer it was ‘don’t duck this up’ mentality. He went through OCs like dirty napkins.

This is peak Cousins. He’s a weird dude (always critical of himself, not a rah-rah fist pump like mahommes, Allen etc) he needs the permission from his coach to let it fly and it’s paying off.
Click to expand...

I think Cousins is having one of his better seasons in Minny because he is taking more chances. With those chances his stats may lessen but he isn't making the back breaking mistake and because he is more daring his mistakes aren't as critical. I know that seems contradictory but having wat he'd every game of his Minny career he is definitely better NFL wise this year than he was under Zimmer.
 
I generally don't believe in clutch (if given enough occurrences, most athletes "clutch" stats are pretty close to their career averages) but think Cousins is a good QB.

However, I can tell you somewhere he is not clutch: If it is 1st & goal and there are a few seconds left in the half and he is supposed to spike the ball, he has been known to kneel by mistake. Still one of the funniest plays I have ever seen (link - although If I could find a clip with the full play before that and then him rushing everyone to the line it would be better).
 
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Ghost Rider said:
Down Under said:
This isn't aging well.
Click to expand...
Well, no, because Cousins haters are a weird bunch. He can ball out for two months, but the minute he has a bad half or throws a bad pick, it's "OMG, THE REAL KIRK JUST STOOD UP!"
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:lmao:

Easy there, Mrs. Cousins. That's not good for your heart.

If we are going to talk about "clutch" (the idea of which is debatable), I think it is fair to include in clutch play in "games with immediate playoff consequences". Or at least "not throwing 3 interceptions in 1 1/2 quarters in games with immediate playoff consequences".

Signed,

Not a "Cousins hater"
 
The short answer is probably "he is until he isn't" because football is like virtually no other sport in that you're only as good as your last play/game. It's the ultimate "what have you done for me lately" sport.
 
I always said about Alex Smith that he was the 16th best QB in the league for pretty much his whole career. When Cousins and Smith were at Washington, Cousins was the 15th best so he got the start. That's still pretty much where he still is. (His QB rating is #13; QBR #20).

4Q comeback stats are more or less a measure of opportunities.
 
Down Under said:
Ghost Rider said:
Down Under said:
This isn't aging well.
Click to expand...
Well, no, because Cousins haters are a weird bunch. He can ball out for two months, but the minute he has a bad half or throws a bad pick, it's "OMG, THE REAL KIRK JUST STOOD UP!"
Click to expand...

:lmao:

Easy there, Mrs. Cousins. That's not good for your heart.

If we are going to talk about "clutch" (the idea of which is debatable), I think it is fair to include in clutch play in "games with immediate playoff consequences". Or at least "not throwing 3 interceptions in 1 1/2 quarters in games with immediate playoff consequences".

Signed,

Not a "Cousins hater"
Click to expand...
Cousins would not rate high on my list of "most clutch QBs," but he is a good QB. I just find it fascinating how people come out of the woodwork when he has a bad game or moment, as if he is the biggest clown in the league.
 
Cousins is a Weeble. They weeble and wobble but they don't fall down. The trouble is, he is always bouncing back from a game where he looks like he's tried nothing and he's all out of ideas. It doesn't matter how well you bounce back after losing the game you needed to win...
 
He's exactly the sort of QB you DON'T want your real life NFL team to end up with, as a fan. Good enough to keep his job and keep an offense moving to a decent standard. Not good enough to make any kind of playoff impact or compete with the best.

Just a guaranteed purgatory with a glass ceiling year after year for whoever he plays for.
 
I voted “no”. I think he’s an average/above average qb that is more fortunate than he is clutch. QB is a weird position in professional sports to evaluate. I think that a qb can single handedly cause his team to lose—but I think that the nature of comeback wins require collaborative efforts from multiple players. The Vikings win against the Bills was technically a “come back win”—but the defense deserves a ton of credit for that. The same with the Colts win. You don’t come back to win that game if it wasn’t for your defense stepping up, or if it wasn’t for the opposing team not calling the right plays (the Colts should have run the ball and milked the clock).
 
Cousins didn't play well yesterday, honestly, he hasn't played well in any of the last 3 weeks, fantasy numbers be damned. He's still been a slightly above average QB overall, but again, he's having his worst season as a Viking.

He certainly was playing better early in the season than he has down the stretch. He was great in the loss against Detroit, but that was probably his only real good game since midseason. NE/NYJ were probably decent games considering how good those defenses were, but there's been more bad than good since the Buffalo game.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Cousins sucked so bad today he got all 4 of my players benched for an entire quarter, and likely cost me a championship.
Click to expand...
Did you actually watch the game? He didn't play as bad as the stats. His first pick was on 4th and seven. He forced the ball in because he had no other choice. It got tipped up and fell into a guys hands and returned for a TD. Not really a bad play by Cousins

Then a KO return to put the Vikes down more. He then lost two O-lineman (center who was already the 2nd string guy with Bradbury out and his tackle on the pick 6). After that he had basically no time. His 2nd pick was a ball tipped up at the LOS because the back up o-line couldn't keep the pressure out of his face. Hi 3rd was when the game was out of hand and he tried to make a play down field to get them back in it.

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't on his game for sure but GB just kicked the Vikes *** in all phases. This game wasn't on Cousins alone.
 
Can't be clutch when you're down 20+. No clutch QB is expected to come back from that. Plenty of clutch QBs got the wrong end of blowouts. It happens. Bad outcome this week but nothing is guaranteed and doesn't lower my estimation of Cousins.
 
Gally said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Cousins sucked so bad today he got all 4 of my players benched for an entire quarter, and likely cost me a championship.
Click to expand...
Did you actually watch the game? He didn't play as bad as the stats. His first pick was on 4th and seven. He forced the ball in because he had no other choice. It got tipped up and fell into a guys hands and returned for a TD. Not really a bad play by Cousins

Then a KO return to put the Vikes down more. He then lost two O-lineman (center who was already the 2nd string guy with Bradbury out and his tackle on the pick 6). After that he had basically no time. His 2nd pick was a ball tipped up at the LOS because the back up o-line couldn't keep the pressure out of his face. Hi 3rd was when the game was out of hand and he tried to make a play down field to get them back in it.

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't on his game for sure but GB just kicked the Vikes *** in all phases. This game wasn't on Cousins alone.
Click to expand...
I had AJD, Jefferson, Harrison Smith &
Hock as my only afternoon players.

I watched every painful minute.

And I have absolutely no idea what the hell he was thinking on that deep pick that was underthrown into double coverage.

He was bad
 
Runkle said:
Turns out he needs an O-Line and can't do it alone. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don’t blame Cousins for everything. Losing a starting center and a couple other OL doesn’t help.

Would have been nice to at least target JJ though. Maybe even a couple of those fun screens that go nowhere for extra points.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Gally said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Cousins sucked so bad today he got all 4 of my players benched for an entire quarter, and likely cost me a championship.
Click to expand...
Did you actually watch the game? He didn't play as bad as the stats. His first pick was on 4th and seven. He forced the ball in because he had no other choice. It got tipped up and fell into a guys hands and returned for a TD. Not really a bad play by Cousins

Then a KO return to put the Vikes down more. He then lost two O-lineman (center who was already the 2nd string guy with Bradbury out and his tackle on the pick 6). After that he had basically no time. His 2nd pick was a ball tipped up at the LOS because the back up o-line couldn't keep the pressure out of his face. Hi 3rd was when the game was out of hand and he tried to make a play down field to get them back in it.

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't on his game for sure but GB just kicked the Vikes *** in all phases. This game wasn't on Cousins alone.
Click to expand...
I had AJD, Jefferson, Harrison Smith &
Hock as my only afternoon players.

I watched every painful minute.

And I have absolutely no idea what the hell he was thinking on that deep pick that was underthrown into double coverage.

He was bad
Click to expand...
Jefferson was just as bad or worse. Jared was in his head and completely took him out of the game. Vikes had plenty of blame to go around for this game. It was not all on Cousins
 
Wigglytuff's Gruff said:
He's exactly the sort of QB you DON'T want your real life NFL team to end up with, as a fan. Good enough to keep his job and keep an offense moving to a decent standard. Not good enough to make any kind of playoff impact or compete with the best.

Just a guaranteed purgatory with a glass ceiling year after year for whoever he plays for.
Click to expand...
As a Vikings fan, I'll concede to having thought this. He's good enough that every year I realistically can hope for the playoffs but I haven't thought about a SB since we got him post-Keenum. And, naturally, I can't expect the Vikings to try to move on from him when he's still top-twelve statistically and is genuinely a better option than like half the QBs in the league.

We are good, but will never be great with him. Of course, a realistic alternative is that we wallow in complete QB disarray like the Browns, Broncos, Jets, Colts, Commanders, etc. so it's not all bad, but your point in a valid one.
 
Zow said:
Wigglytuff's Gruff said:
He's exactly the sort of QB you DON'T want your real life NFL team to end up with, as a fan. Good enough to keep his job and keep an offense moving to a decent standard. Not good enough to make any kind of playoff impact or compete with the best.

Just a guaranteed purgatory with a glass ceiling year after year for whoever he plays for.
Click to expand...
As a Vikings fan, I'll concede to having thought this. He's good enough that every year I realistically can hope for the playoffs but I haven't thought about a SB since we got him post-Keenum. And, naturally, I can't expect the Vikings to try to move on from him when he's still top-twelve statistically and is genuinely a better option than like half the QBs in the league.

We are good, but will never be great with him. Of course, a realistic alternative is that we wallow in complete QB disarray like the Browns, Broncos, Jets, Colts, Commanders, etc. so it's not all bad, but your point in a valid one.
Click to expand...
be careful what you wish for - as a fan of the JEts who have been wandering in QB purgatory for decades Id roll out the red carpet for a QB like Cousins!
 
Kiddnets said:
Zow said:
Wigglytuff's Gruff said:
He's exactly the sort of QB you DON'T want your real life NFL team to end up with, as a fan. Good enough to keep his job and keep an offense moving to a decent standard. Not good enough to make any kind of playoff impact or compete with the best.

Just a guaranteed purgatory with a glass ceiling year after year for whoever he plays for.
Click to expand...
As a Vikings fan, I'll concede to having thought this. He's good enough that every year I realistically can hope for the playoffs but I haven't thought about a SB since we got him post-Keenum. And, naturally, I can't expect the Vikings to try to move on from him when he's still top-twelve statistically and is genuinely a better option than like half the QBs in the league.

We are good, but will never be great with him. Of course, a realistic alternative is that we wallow in complete QB disarray like the Browns, Broncos, Jets, Colts, Commanders, etc. so it's not all bad, but your point in a valid one.
Click to expand...
be careful what you wish for - as a fan of the JEts who have been wandering in QB purgatory for decades Id roll out the red carpet for a QB like Cousins!
Click to expand...
That's why I acknowledged that it good be worse and specifically mentioned the Jets!
 
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